A rant! A long one

dobman88

I was out walking my dog today, a 5 month old Golden Retriever , and we were attacked by a very small dog like this one http://dogs.animal-world.com/Toy-Dog-Breeds/ToyDogBreeds.php

The dog that attacked lives at the end of our road and comes nipping at me every morning on my way home from work, teeth showing, barking loud as it can. It's a vicious little fecker. When I'm on my own, I don't take any notice and just keep walking, he hasn't actually bit me yet. But today was the first time I met him with my pup. And to make matters worse, his owner was there with his lead in her hand going for a walk!!

Soon as he saw us coming he bolted over, teeth snarling, barking his head off coming straight at us. When he started running his owner had a look of horror on her face like she knew what was going to happen! My pup was obviously scared and stood right up against the back of my leg to hide, I'm proud of him for that, and this dog was standing right in front of me inching closer. I will admit I was quite scared of it being that close and having to protect my pup too. I started roaring at it to f**k off while it's owner was trying to call it.

When she got her dog on the lead I went a bit nuts shouting at her that he should be on a lead and told her it attacks me every morning when I'm going home from work, I'm not proud of shouting at a woman on her own but I was the angriest I have been for a very long time, I was scared and the adrenaline was pumping. What was she thinking not putting the lead on it when it reacts like that!! I think all dogs regardless of breeds should be on a lead when being walked in public, but that's a different story.

How irresponsible do you have to be if you can't control a small dog like that! She didn't even apologise. And for all the people who think it's only the big breeds that should be on leads, I met a Rottie a few days ago who was off the lead on private land and when his owner said sit, he didn't move and just let my pup sniff around him and play a bit. First time the two dogs met and first time I've ever seen that Rottweiler. And then a small psycho dog like this attacks! Give me a Rottie or Alsatian any day!

Sorry for the length but I just needed to get this off my chest and let it out, I can't get over how stupid that woman is. Finish off with a picture of Teddy the Golden Retriever below.

scudzilla

That's happened to me before, i gave the thing a kick, never bothered me again for some reason. The owner did shout at me, but i was only protecting myself and my then dog (dog was also a pup)

dobman88

Yeah, the stance I took when it was coming at me was side on with my right foot ready to go and my pup against my back legs and the wall behind me. I really didn't want to kick a dog though, I'm not sure could I do it even if I was very very scared and intimidated. I felt more sorry for my pup tbh, he's a soft touch.

scudzilla

dobman88 wrote: »

Yeah, the stance I took when it was coming at me was side on with my right foot ready to go and my pup against my back legs and the wall behind me. I really didn't want to kick a dog though, I'm not sure could I do it even if I was very very scared and intimidated. I felt more sorry for my pup tbh, he's a soft touch.

In time your pup will stand up for you (and himself) but he's too young at the moment, now he needs you to stand up for him, and if that involves a boot then so be it

dobman88

I didn't expect him or want him to do anything. I was delighted he came to me and hid behind me. I keep him on a 16ft extendable lead and he was a few feet ahead of me. At least if that woman started saying anything about him, he did absolutely nothing except hide while her little rat was raving away. And he still trusted me enough to walk past the dog when I told him to. I was very proud of him.

And I'm really not sure about a boot, I think it would have to be a last resort tbh.

Chopper77

I have the same problem walking my staff. He is well trained and in general ain't bothered by other dogs. The problem I have is with smaller dogs, always off leads and always little snappy things. I used to take him in on really short leads, but now what's the point, he has got bitten a couple of times. The owners of the other smaller dogs nearly always do nothing. Bar smile or pass stupid comments like, "oh he's usually harmless" Or "those dogs should be on muzzels" to "you shouldn't have that type of dog anyway" more often than not in carry a hurl in case of an attack by a bigger dog, which hasn't happened, but I wouldn't have a problem kicking first then using that if a smaller dog kept it up

dobman88

It might just be me but every small dog I meet is a snappy psycho dog and every large dog I meet is nice and friendly. I've never had an incident with a large dog, when I was a kid, when I was with my previous dog before he passed or now with the new pup, always the small ones.

Mark Tapley

I've got quite a big dog as well and it always seems to be grumpy little dogs that go for her. She never fights or shows aggression just looks to me for protection. As she is getting older it happens less as I think they sense her confidence. She seems to look at them like what are you yapping at you eejit.

tk123

Welcome to the world of having a big dog - I have 2 retrievers (big boy is 4yrs and pup girl is 9 months) and this happens all the time but you'll get used to it.
What you need to concentrate on is socialising your pup with friendly small dogs - you don't want him developing a fear of smaller dogs or other dogs in general because as he gets bigger it may be difficult to handle him eg at one stage my dog would have rather jump away onto the main road that cross paths with a small dog for fear it'd snap(!) When my older dog was a pup a small dog snapped at him and it took a long time to build his confidence. My pup is very confident and couldn't care less - she had a bold JRT giving out to her last week and her big brother ran in barking at the JRT lol - "don't hurt my baby!!"

dobman88

Yeah, there's a few dogs living close by but the smallest is some type of sheep dog collie mix or something. We have a 2 year old GR next door and a Lab down the road and my lad gets on great with all of them. Always looking to go and play with them. It broke my heart yesterday to see him scared and the last thing I want is him getting a vicious streak in him cos hes so mild mannered. Even with small kids we meet out walking he just lies there to have his belly rubbed.

borderlinemeath

A lot of small dog owners have a misconception about their own dogs. I know it sounds like a bit of a generalisation but the amount of small dog owners that pick up their dogs when they see a large dog coming are sowing the seed in their little dogs head that "there must be a problem with this big dog that's coming towards me" and then the next thing their small little ball of fluff becomes aggressive to any big dog it sees out and about. Then the owners laugh it off and say "He thinks he's a rottweiler!" or "He's just standing up for himself":(.

Watching Crufts last weekend in the hound group, it was fantastic to see the group winner James the Irish Wolfhound line up beside a miniature dachshund, that you could nearly fit in your pocket. Well socialised dogs that had no problem standing beside each other as they were used to dogs of all shapes and sizes.

cocker5

OP, I know it’s very frustrating indeed.

Where I live half way down the road there is a shih tzu type dog that is hell bend on biting my guy.
Every evening we do the same 6k walk and without fail every evening he comes charging out like a bat out of hell at my guy. My guy is waaaay too soft and just looks around all confused (he’s never growled in the nearly 9 years I have had him)…

Anyway about three weeks ago I wasnt in a good mood and yet again he came tearing out (on a fairly main road. no lead etc)… this time the owner was at the bottom of her garden talking to her neighbour, as he lunged towards my guy, I made a run at him (or her), well he nearly died turned around and ran back towards his gate…….and the owner turned and looked at me…
I simply told her to put a muzzle and lead on that rat, or next time he will be met by the toe my shoe, she looked horrified, and stunned, but I meant it and haven’t seen the thing since.

Kinda feel bad calling the dog a rat, it’s not the dogs fault and badly socialised dog, its 100% the owners fault.

SingItOut

So sorry you and your puppy had to go through that OP. Not a nice experience at all! I would have reacted the same way you did. You were perfectly right to call that woman out on it. I am a small woman myself and I would have felt extremely vulnerable in that situation if a dog of any size came running out baring its teeth at me or my dogs.

dobman88 wrote: »

I think all dogs regardless of breeds should be on a lead when being walked in public, but that's a different .

I 100% agree with you on this. Nothing is more annoying or worrying than an off lead dog running up to your own dogs, especially if the owner is too thick to call it back! My CollieXSpringer is fantastic with other dogs but I would never allow her off lead in public incase someone else's dog is not comfortable with an approaching dog. My terrier is completely different, she isn't allowed off lead either but while she would never go attack another dog she still doesn't like off lead dogs getting up in her face. It actually annoys me that I have to verbally ask somebody to call their dog away.

borderlinemeath

=SingItOut;89421819

I 100% agree with you on this. Nothing is more annoying or worrying than an off lead dog running up to your own dogs, especially if the owner is too thick to call it back! My CollieXSpringer is fantastic with other dogs but I would never allow her off lead in public incase someone else's dog is not comfortable with an approaching dog. My terrier is completely different, she isn't allowed off lead either but while she would never go attack another dog she still doesn't like off lead dogs getting up in her face. It actually annoys me that I have to verbally ask somebody to call their dog away.

I know this is going off topic but the ramifications of all dogs being on lead, all the time would be a lot more dogs that are poorly socialised, and lead to other problems such as lead aggression. Victoria Stilwell touched on it briefly when she was interviewed at Crufts last weekend. She sees lots more lead aggression in the US where she lives as there is virtually nowhere to let a dog off lead, and unless your dog attends socialisation classes or doggy day care or you live near a designated dog park then the chances are far greater as your dog can rarely interact with others. And even in the main cities in Ireland, there's not a huge choice of facilities at all.

Socialisation with others is a big part of a dogs confidence and while the OP has had a negative experience because of a negligent owner, a call for a blanket 'all dogs on lead' will cause problems down the line.

SingItOut

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I know this is going off topic but the ramifications of all dogs being on lead, all the time would be a lot more dogs that are poorly socialised, and lead to other problems such as lead aggression. Victoria Stilwell touched on it briefly when she was interviewed at Crufts last weekend.

I'm talking about public areas such as roads (yes some people are foolish enough to do this in my area) , neighbour hood areas etc of course it's fine to allow your dog to run off lead in an enclosed field if you have 100% control over them. My dogs are allowed off lead in an enclosed field only if there are no other dogs or people present. That is to respect others and protect my dogs from people who don't or can't call theirs back

borderlinemeath

SingItOut wrote: »

I'm talking about public areas such as roads (yes some people are foolish enough to do this in my area) , neighbour hood areas etc of course it's fine to allow your dog to run off lead in an enclosed field if you have 100% control over them. My dogs are allowed off lead in an enclosed field only if there are no other dogs or people present. That is to respect others and protect my dogs from people who don't or can't call theirs back

But for legislative purposes it would be fairly impossible to define a difference in 'public' areas such as a roadway and a beach for example. Unless each estate was held and owned by a private management company or individual council. You say you agree with 100% on lead but then in the next post, a field is alright? It's not really about the area, per se, it's more about the dogs behaviour and the owners lack of responsibility.

SingItOut

borderlinemeath wrote: »

But for legislative purposes it would be fairly impossible to define a difference in 'public' areas such as a roadway and a beach for example. Unless each estate was held and owned by a private management company or individual council. You say you agree with 100% on lead but then in the next post, a field is alright? It's not really about the area, per se, it's more about the dogs behaviour and the owners lack of responsibility.

Theres a huge difference between an enclosed field where you and your dog are most likely on your own than say a populated area of a beach where your dog should be kept on a lead (I thought that was the norm anyway on irish beaches? Correct me if I'm wrong as I'm not sure) . If the beach is empty of people/other dogs then yes your dog has every right to be allowed off lead, that's as clear as I can explain it. I agree with you it's about the owners responsibility which is also the reasoning for my posts. We're all agreed here that the woman with the small dog was completely to blame

borderlinemeath

SingItOut wrote: »

Theres a huge difference between an enclosed field where you and your dog are most likely on your own than say a populated area of a beach where your dog should be kept on a lead (I thought that was the norm anyway on irish beaches? Correct me if I'm wrong as I'm not sure) . If the beach is empty of people/other dogs then yes your dog has every right to be allowed off lead, that's as clear as I can explain it. I agree with you it's about the owners responsibility which is also the reasoning for my posts. We're all agreed here that the woman with the small dog was completely to blame

Beaches depend on local council bye laws rather than the control of dogs act legislation. Even if a beach is empty there may be a bye law not allowing any off lead dogs so it just depends on where you are.

All I'm saying is, while it's not right that some off lead dogs cause mayhem due to their irresponsible owners - to legislate that all dogs must be on lead at all times may cause behavioural issues down the line. And to try and define where is 'suitable' would be, to a degree, indefinable. There'll still be a nuisance dog somewhere, walking off lead, within the legislation, that may cause trouble but it will be open to interpretation/misinterpretation, just like the current control of dogs act.

Taceom

scudzilla wrote: »

In time your pup will stand up for you (and himself) but he's too young at the moment, now he needs you to stand up for him, and if that involves a boot then so be it

That's not always the case, my almost 4 year old Retriever had a similar incident as the OP when he was only a pup. The offending dog was a small Jack Russell type dog, - a nasty little thing. But my dog has never forgotten it and is always wary of new dogs we meet out on our walks, especially small dogs.

dobman88

Thanks for all the replies and shared experiences folks. We haven't met that particular dog again yet. We did meet a small type terrier and of course they were checking each other out and they got on grand. My pup did go to jump up, in a playful way, and she showed her teeth to him but nothing aggressive so I hope he doesn't get a fear of other dogs..

Just on the socialising thing, whenever we meet another dog we stop if the other owner does too so he gets used to other dogs, big and small. Also with kids, obviously we ask the parents permission first, but he just lies down for his belly to be rubbed. I know I'm being very biased because he's mine but he is a fantastic dog. He is great with all the kids nearby and the other dogs around, he even goes into next doors run when they bring him in with their 2 yr old GR and (usually) does what we tell him at 5 months. Looking forward to the time with him