Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Borrow €400k from AIB and only pay back €250k

Options
13567…14

Comments

  • Options
    #62
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    smcgiff wrote: »
    Presumably they had the kids before they lost their income. Should they hand the kids up for adoption as part of a reduced lifestyle?

    Why do you presume that?


  • Options
    #63
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    I very much doubt the price of the house has fallen to 100k- if the original mortgage was over 400k? Even apartments in Leitrim- have barely seen falls of this level (80%)- and if it were in Dublin or the Dublin hinterland- it won't have fallen anywhere near this amount. Anyone know where the property is?


  • Options
    #64
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    username123 wrote: »
    Why do you presume that?

    That's why they bought house they did.


  • Options
    #65
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    I very much doubt the price of the house has fallen to 100k- if the original mortgage was over 400k? Even apartments in Leitrim- have barely seen falls of this level (80%)- and if it were in Dublin or the Dublin hinterland- it won't have fallen anywhere near this amount. Anyone know where the property is?

    Hence my surprise. Anyone else hear the MI programme where the journalist said the remaining loan value was twice the value of the home? It would imply the value of the home was around €100k.


  • Options
    #66
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,535 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    paganji wrote: »
    Its easy to see how a story like this strikes a nerve for people who have worked hard to pay a big mortgage while living within their means. Its understandable why people feel that way.

    My hope would be that AIB have done their best to ensure that this couple have no extravagances. If they have 2 big nice cars, sell them both and let them have 1 shared economical car.

    All of their income should be taken into account and every outgoing justified by the bank to ensure they do not go on a fancy holiday, private schools for kids, spa weekends, shopping spree, etc.

    But still give them something to live for, let them have some sort of a life and give them a chance to work hard to repair the damage.

    unfortunately that rarely happens:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/developer-s-wife-awarded-9-000-a-month-expenses-1.1593800


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #67
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    smcgiff wrote: »
    Hence my surprise. Anyone else hear the MI programme where the journalist said the remaining loan value was twice the value of the home? It would imply the value of the home was around €100k.

    I'm this close to calling bull-sheet on it- it sounds like yet another journalist sensationalising to make his story better.......


  • Options
    #68
    Ginny
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 13,425 ✭✭✭✭Ginny


    David Hall was just on the radio and claims there are no clawbacks, that they could win the lotto and not be chased, very interesting if true, and frustrating for the rest of us.


  • Options
    #69
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    I'm this close to calling bull-sheet on it- it sounds like yet another journalist sensationalising to make his story better.......

    Although, he said it the context of why the bank did the deal. i.e. that the loan was still twice as much as the asset value.

    Could a bank have valued the property so badly in the first place and therefore giving a mortgage of about 200% of the likely value at the time.


  • Options
    #70
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    Ginny wrote: »
    David Hall was just on the radio and claims there are no clawbacks, that they could win the lotto and not be chased, very interesting if true, and frustrating for the rest of us.

    Isn't there clawbacks on the warehoused part?

    But, agree, there should be clawback on the full write down.


  • Options
    #71
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    smcgiff wrote: »
    Although, he said it the context of why the bank did the deal. i.e. that the loan was still twice as much as the asset value.

    Could a bank have valued the property so badly in the first place and therefore giving a mortgage of about 200% of the likely value at the time.

    However awful they are- could they have f*cked up that badly? And as for the couple who bought the property- why would they have paid that much over the odds? Even in the most desireable of locations- this didn't happen (15-20% maybe- but a 100% over-valuation?- I don't think so).


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #72
    BionicRasher
    Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭BionicRasher


    smcgiff wrote: »
    Their income has nearly halved. How much more hard times would you want for them?

    I work Private sector and wages have dropped by about 45% for me since boom times in 2006-08. My wife is Public sector and her wages have dropped by around 25%. we have an apartment that we paid 180k for and its now worth about 90k. We have 2 kids and we have a bit of credit card and credit union debt (about 10k in total)

    we pay our mortgage each and every month without fail as we live within our means (just). we have not been on a family holiday in a few years and I drive a 10 year old car

    I dont know anyone in the bank so I dont think I would get any special treatment.

    Why are this family so different to thousands around the country

    Whole thing stinks to me


  • Options
    #73
    Naux
    Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭Naux


    paganji wrote: »
    Its easy to see how a story like this strikes a nerve for people who have worked hard to pay a big mortgage while living within their means. Its understandable why people feel that way.

    My hope would be that AIB have done their best to ensure that this couple have no extravagances. If they have 2 big nice cars, sell them both and let them have 1 shared economical car.

    All of their income should be taken into account and every outgoing justified by the bank to ensure they do not go on a fancy holiday, private schools for kids, spa weekends, shopping spree, etc.

    But still give them something to live for, let them have some sort of a life and give them a chance to work hard to repair the damage.

    I agree and I hope that the bank were stringent in all of their lifestyle checks etc.

    However I never underestimate the banks potential for bumbling incompetence(after all they gave out a lot of ridiculous loans in the first place)

    The unpalatable truth(for people struggling and paying their full mortgages) about all of this in my opinion is that we need a lot more of these deals to be done in order to get domestic economy/spending going again for all our sakes. Take out the multinationals and ancillaries and the economy has been/is flatlining.


  • Options
    #74
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Ginny wrote: »
    David Hall was just on the radio and claims there are no clawbacks, that they could win the lotto and not be chased, very interesting if true, and frustrating for the rest of us.

    If that is the case- David Hall is a fool for allowing it get into the media. Of course there would be a massive back-lash against it, what else could any intelligent person expect.

    If this is true- far from it being the beginning of something- it may well be a one-and-only case, as he has effectively shot himself in the foot by publicizing it like this.


  • Options
    #75
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    smcgiff wrote: »
    That's why they bought house they did.

    We dont know that. They could just as easily have bought the house then had the kids.

    On the subject of the depreciation, apartments in my development were selling at 400k at the absolute height of the boom and are worth ~125k now, so its possible to have such a drop depending on location and infrastructure.


  • Options
    #76
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    BionicRasher wrote: »
    Why are this family so different to thousands around the country

    Whole thing stinks to me

    It stinks and is so far fetched that it totally stretches credulity.


  • Options
    #77
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    Naux wrote: »
    The unpalatable truth(for people struggling and paying their full mortgages) about all of this in my opinion is that we need a lot more of these deals to be done in order to get domestic economy/spending going again for all our sakes.

    And how is taking this money off some people and passing it on to others going to help? People who got bailed out may spend it, but people who bailed them out will not. It's a zero sum game.


  • Options
    #78
    Naux
    Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭Naux


    mhge wrote: »
    And how is taking this money off some people and passing it on to others going to help? People who got bailed out may spend it, but people who bailed them out will not. It's a zero sum game.

    At the moment people who bailed them out(me and you included here I guess) are not spending either because wages are down. We will not be spending anytime soon either until wages go back up. This will only happen when the companies that we work for start making money again and more jobs become available. Not exactly a zero sum game in the longer term methinks but I understand your sentiment.


  • Options
    #79
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    Naux wrote: »
    At the moment people who bailed them out(me and you included here I guess) are not spending either because wages are down. We will not be spending anytime soon either until wages go back up. This will only happen when the companies that we work for start making money again and more jobs become available. Not exactly a zero sum game in the longer term methinks but I understand your sentiment.

    When our wages go back up we still have the full mortgage to pay, when theirs go back up they still have the 150k write off.


  • Options
    #80
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,995 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    BionicRasher wrote: »
    I work Private sector and wages have dropped by about 45% for me since boom times in 2006-08. My wife is Public sector and her wages have dropped by around 25%. we have an apartment that we paid 180k for and its now worth about 90k. We have 2 kids and we have a bit of credit card and credit union debt (about 10k in total)

    we pay our mortgage each and every month without fail as we live within our means (just). we have not been on a family holiday in a few years and I drive a 10 year old car

    I dont know anyone in the bank so I dont think I would get any special treatment.

    Why are this family so different to thousands around the country

    Whole thing stinks to me

    So stop paying your mortgage and start living, rack up some serious credit card debt as well. You will be at the back of a list of 80k people and god knows when they get around to you there will be plenty of precedent to allow you to get the same deal.


  • Options
    #81
    Ginny
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 13,425 ✭✭✭✭Ginny


    smcgiff wrote: »
    Isn't there clawbacks on the warehoused part?

    But, agree, there should be clawback on the full write down.

    On the 45,000 yes, but no conditions on the other 153,000. Bit of a kick in the teeth for people like myself who are paying back on a house that's now worth 53% of what we paid, who are weighing up if they can afford a second child due to childcare costs if we both keep working, but need both working to pay the mortgage.
    It just seems like a complete turnaround from the banks, it's surprising, I understand they lost half their income, I just never expected a bank to write off that much. It's going to open the floodgates with applications now.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #82
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    Naux wrote: »
    At the moment people who bailed them out(me and you included here I guess) are not spending either because wages are down. We will not be spending anytime soon either until wages go back up. This will only happen when the companies that we work for start making money again and more jobs become available. Not exactly a zero sum game in the longer term methinks but I understand your sentiment.

    But how are private writedowns supposed to boost job creation by companies? There may only be reverse influence, if any - debt writedowns inflate living costs for everyone else (stock is down, SVRs are up, people can't buy which inflates rents too) and make business more difficult. Dublin is becoming expensive to trade in again; this means loss of jobs that might have been brought here but will now go elsewhere, or that prove too expensive to create locally. And rising housing costs will eat up your wage increases.


  • Options
    #83
    Naux
    Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭Naux


    username123 wrote: »
    When our wages go back up we still have the full mortgage to pay, when theirs go back up they still have the 150k write off.


    Yep but given that we can pay our mortgages now its fair to assume that we will have more disposable income when/if our wages rise.

    When their(mortgager defaulters) wages go back up they likewise will have more disposable income.

    My point is that wages will be very very slow going back up unless the domestic economy recovers.

    BTW Nobody but nobody likes this and it will be a very uneven/unfair process but a lot of things in life are unfair:(


  • Options
    #84
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    Naux wrote: »
    Yep but given that we can pay our mortgages now its fair to assume that we will have more disposable income when/if our wages rise.

    Your rates will rise (to accommodate the loss they make on writedowns). Or taxes. Or both. The money has to come from somewhere after all.


  • Options
    #85
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    Naux wrote: »
    Yep but given that we can pay our mortgages now its fair to assume that we will have more disposable income when/if our wages rise.

    Can we? I know numerous people paying interest only or just whatever they can and the banks refuse to deal with them.


  • Options
    #86
    JimsAlterEgo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,917 ✭✭✭JimsAlterEgo


    what were the massive credit card bills for? Day to day living, or holidays and iphones? oh and assume they had no sky or upc.


  • Options
    #87
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    smcgiff wrote: »
    Their income has nearly halved. How much more hard times would you want for them?

    my income is at least 35% down, do you feel sorry for me??
    I'd imagine that the majority of the country could say the same.

    i got my mortgage before my income reduced. i have cut my lifestyle so i can pay my mortgage.

    more fool me.


  • Options
    #88
    Naux
    Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭Naux


    mhge wrote: »
    Your rates will rise (to accommodate the loss they make on writedowns). Or taxes. Or both. The money has to come from somewhere after all.

    Taxes have gone up massively already and more indirect taxes in the pipeline:mad:

    The variable mortgage rates have already risen hugely without corresponding increases in the ECB rates so people are already having more money sucked out of them for the banks mistakes.

    I wonder if there have been pay cuts across the board at BOI/AIB to reduce their costs and therefore reduce the amount they have to raise the variable rate mortgages by??


  • Options
    #89
    Naux
    Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭Naux


    username123 wrote: »
    Can we? I know numerous people paying interest only or just whatever they can and the banks refuse to deal with them.

    For us to get out of this mess Banks will have to deal with all people in difficulty eventually.


  • Options
    #90
    ferike1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭ferike1


    I must say I have mixed feelings about this deal. On one hand I feel bad for the family struggling, on the other hand as someone who entered the workforce after this mess had already transpired I am majorly p*ssed that I (and many others) am paying for a mess that I had nothing to do with and only get the downside to.

    Most people under a certain age get zero benefit from this.

    Oh, you made bad choices and we the banks did too, nah sure its grand, you get to keep your house and pay less. So we are paying increased taxes to bail out the banks and now we are bailing out private householders too?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #91
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    smcgiff wrote: »
    Was waiting for these type of comments. Boards.ie you never disappoint.

    Why don't I find it surprising that someone linked with accountancy is gung ho for debt writeoffs. :rolleyes:
    green_screen wrote: »
    Ah sure, let's just take the houses from them and leave them homeless, probably costing the taxpayer even more to rehome them.

    People made mistakes, big fcuking deal. I'd rather my taxes go towards housing somebody /keeping them in their home, than on the numerous people I know defrauding the social welfare.

    Fine you pay your taxes to them, but don't expect the rest of us.
    BTW ever hear the concept of RENTING or is that just for plebs ?

    And when people make mistakes there is a thing called responsibility.
    green_screen wrote: »
    If they're in negative equity with credit card debt on top of that, how can they afford to downsize when they'll still owe money even after the house is sold?

    Remind me again how you get big credit card debt ?
    whomitconcerns wrote: »
    with all due respect to the people involved...surely its not the end of the world if the boy and girl had to share a room in a downsized house....least of their worries..

    You can't be having that.
    Didn't you see the response to your post.
    It would be like putting them in a home with an outside loo.
    The fooking sense of entitlement in this state is a joke. :mad:
    smcgiff wrote: »
    If the asset against which the loan is secured against is worth more than the loan, then that will happen.

    It wasn't foreseen that the assets would depreciate so badly.

    BULLSH**.
    Enough people foresaw it.
    Of course not many in certain professions did as they raked it in and started playing would be Donald Trumps.

    And a fair few people chose not to partake in the madness.
    Now those same people are being punished and expected to pay for others, who on many many occassions acted stupiditly and greedly.

    I have always vehemently fought (in these forums and elsewhere) for people to be responsible and repay their debts, but I think if more of this happens then everyone who owes debts to these banks should just renege on them.
    The system can not possibly cope with a few 100,000 people refusing to repay their debts.
    If this cr** is going to become par for the course for some, then it is time to collapse the entire putrid system.

    And if you don't have any debt then just try and grab some quick.
    I know if today was yesterday I would have borrowed upto my eyeballs and be dammed.
    Oh wait I woudln't be dammed some others would.

    I am not allowed discuss …



Advertisement