Borrow €400k from AIB and only pay back €250k

OldNotWIse

Deise Vu wrote: »

On a property which is massively under water, with a mortgage that is probably already at least 25 to 30 years to run given the length of, mortgages towards the end of the Tiger? In other words you think people should work for the rest of their lives paying off a loan that is worth more than the house only to hand over that house at some point in the future.

Or... they could give up their jobs, go to the UK for a year and declare bankruptcy, return to Ireland and present themselves at Social Welfare and demand a house and appoximately €400 a week in welfare. Why work for the rest of your life for the bank when you can enjoy all the comforts of a state income? With the bankruptcy behind them they could even rejoin the workforce if they so choose.

Anyone else have any practical suggestions?

As opposed to asking us to work for the rest of our lives paying off someone else's loan on a house we will never have an equitable or legal interest in?

Zamboni

Deise Vu wrote: »

Anyone else have any practical suggestions?

This mess has built up over the years of the repossession moratorium.
We need to get back to a normal functioning property market. With normal occurrences of sales transactions, repossessions, bad debt write downs and auctions of repossessed properties.
That is the only way out of this mess.

It ensures a fair society, encourages financial prudence and I would wager it will reduce property prices/rental prices to actually correct levels and decrease the Department of Social Protection expenditure on RA.
This protracted game of Kerplunck! has to stop.

drumswan

Deise Vu wrote: »

On a property which is massively under water, with a mortgage that is probably already at least 25 to 30 years to run given the length of, mortgages towards the end of the Tiger? In other words you think people should work for the rest of their lives paying off a loan that is worth more than the house only to hand over that house at some point in the future.

Yes, if they cant meet the repayments in cash then they should use the asset to cover the mortgage. Thats how mortgages work. Why is this so shocking to you?

Tell me this, is this one way bet in financial transactions a permanent thing now or is it only for our celtic tiger cubs? Can I pop down to AIB and pick up a one-way bet mortgage for any amount I like? I fancy a georgian house in D6, sure if I cant meet the payments you can pay for it for me. :rolleyes:

Deise Vu

OldNotWIse wrote: »

As opposed to asking us to work for the rest of our lives paying off someone else's loan on a house we will never have an equitable or legal interest in?

It is a stark choice isn't it? The satisfaction of extracting revenge on these morons versus the cost of supporting them on welfare. It sure is tough being smug.

OldNotWIse

Deise Vu wrote: »

It is a stark choice isn't it? The satisfaction of extracting revenge on these morons versus the cost of supporting them on welfare. It sure is tough being smug.

Expecting that someone repays their debts instead of saddling the taxpayer with them is "extracting revenge" now?

I'm not smug. I'm annoyed.

Deise Vu

drumswan wrote: »

Yes, if they cant meet the repayments in cash then they should use the asset to cover the mortgage. Thats how mortgages work. Why is this so shocking to you?

Tell me this, is this one way bet in financial transactions a permanent thing now or is it only for our celtic tiger cubs? Can I pop down to AIB and pick up a one-way bet mortgage for any amount I like? I fancy a georgian house in D6, sure if I cant meet the payments you can pay for it for me. :rolleyes:

Please try and stick with the facts. This is a €400K mortgage taken out in Tiger times. I donlt think that bought too many D6 Georgian mansions.

If the bank will lend to you enough money to buy one under your current circumstances and something befalls you such as unemployment, illness, or (how could this happen?) the world economy falls off a clif, I think you will find that the bank will call you in a work out a solution that is best for them. And that is the crucial thing, this settlement means the couple paying more for the house than it is currently worth. That is the best solution for the bank.

drumswan

Deise Vu wrote: »

It is a stark choice isn't it? The satisfaction of extracting revenge on these morons versus the cost of supporting them on welfare. It sure is tough being smug.

Not stark at all, moving to the UK followed by a subsistence existence on welfare vs continuing to live in privately owned four hundred thousand euro house with two incomes for a knockdown mortgage rate. You are talking like these are somehow equivalent.

drumswan

Deise Vu wrote: »

And that is the crucial thing, this settlement means the couple paying more for the house than it is currently worth.

The current value of the property is irrelevant, it has no connection to how much they owe.

mjv2ydratu679c

Deise Vu wrote: »

On a property which is massively under water, with a mortgage that is probably already at least 25 to 30 years to run given the length of, mortgages towards the end of the Tiger? In other words you think people should work for the rest of their lives paying off a loan that is worth more than the house only to hand over that house at some point in the future.

Or... they could give up their jobs, go to the UK for a year and declare bankruptcy, return to Ireland and present themselves at Social Welfare and demand a house and appoximately €400 a week in welfare. Why work for the rest of your life for the bank when you can enjoy all the comforts of a state income? With the bankruptcy behind them they could even rejoin the workforce if they so choose.

Anyone else have any practical suggestions?

Debt for equity swap.

mjv2ydratu679c

jay0109 wrote: »

Debates like this will continue because there is a lack of transparency. We do not need to know these people's names, but info should be put out there of their salaries, initial house price paid and what it's worth now (i'd like to see a house that's fallen close to 75% in Dublin in the last few years...thats BS if I ever hear it), their monthly spend categories etc.

The we all could see the wood from the trees on these cases.
It's not too much to ask...this is tax payers money after all

We need full transparency including names (possibly a register). Hoe do we know this wasn't the local bank manager writing of the local superintendent's mortgage in return for the removal of a few penalty points (extreme example I know).

If we have learned anything in the last 20 years it's that those with connections will try to game any system for their own profit. With taxpayer's money involved we need FULL transparency to avoid the sort of cronyism that eventually resulted in the IMF running the country for the last few years.

Deise Vu

drumswan wrote: »

Not stark at all, moving to the UK followed by a subsistence existence on welfare vs continuing to live in privately owned four hundred thousand euro house with two incomes for a knockdown mortgage rate. You are talking like these are somehow equivalent.

This is my last post on this thread. If the choice was working your entire life paying off a loan and not even owning the house at the end of it what would you do? I suggested social welfare after a UK bankruptcy as that is the minimum they could expect after just 12 months in the UK. I also mentioned that they can return to the workforce debt-free. Both are far better options than working for the bank and that is the economic reality that is going to have to be faced in this and tens of thousands of other cases.

drumswan

Ayla Most Sequel wrote: »

Debt for equity swap.

He ignored this option because it doesnt suit his argument.

What is supposed to happen is that those who are financially doing well are supposed to be able to buy or rent a particular type of home in a particular type of area. This provides incentive for people to work hard and make sensible, prudent financial decision which benefit the ecomony as a whole. Instead what is happening is that we have people like these sitting pretty, creating artificial scarcity, driving rents and property prices up and penalising the people who are supposed to be driving the recovery, sucking more of their money into the property black hole.

drumswan

Deise Vu wrote: »

This is my last post on this thread. If the choice was working your entire life paying off a loan and not even owning the house at the end of it what would you do? I suggested social welfare after a UK bankruptcy as that is the minimum they could expect after just 12 months in the UK. I also mentioned that they can return to the workforce debt-free. Both are far better options than working for the bank and that is the economic reality that is going to have to be faced in this and tens of thousands of other cases.

There are ALREADY hundreds of thousands of people in Ireland who will work their entire lives paying for housing who wont own a property at the end of it. Thats REALITY.

Owning property is not a god given right, YOU need to pay for it, not the bank, nor the taxpayer, or your neighbour - YOU.

OldNotWIse

Deise Vu wrote: »

This is my last post on this thread. If the choice was working your entire life paying off a loan and not even owning the house at the end of it what would you do? I suggested social welfare after a UK bankruptcy as that is the minimum they could expect after just 12 months in the UK. I also mentioned that they can return to the workforce debt-free. Both are far better options than working for the bank and that is the economic reality that is going to have to be faced in this and tens of thousands of other cases.

But its ok for the rest of us to have to pay rent plus the mortgages of people like this, or our own mortgages plus the mortgages of people like this? We are all "working for the bank" already, now we will be working for the bank and defaulters.

who_ru

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/social-housing-waiting-lists-indicate-that-new-phase-of-construction-is-now-needed-1.1648604

90,000 on the social housing waiting list....waiting.......waiting.......waiting.

Morrisseeee

Suffer the greedy Celtic Tigers and chancers who borrowed/lived & partied beyond their means, for they shall receive mercy :(:mad:

..........and they can now LOL @ the rest of us who are paying for it !!

jmayo

Nino Brown wrote: »

Yes the bank probably will get more money this way, so from the banks point of view, letting these deadbeats off with 150K is the lesser of two evils. But that's not really the point.
This family is off the hook for a large portion of their mortgage, a sum that would amount to giving somebody a free house in most of the country. And who pays for that? the tax payer.
I thought I was being smart not buying a house in the biggest property bubble in history. Turn's out I was a huge f**cking eejit. Here I am still renting AND paying other peoples mortgages, I can't afford kids but I pay for other people's kids. If you're smart enough to live within your means in this country you should always carry Vaseline and knee pads.

Unfortunate image, but very true.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Did I miss something? Do you know this is happening or is it a belief you have?

Ehhh hello!!
this is AIB we are talking about.

The bank that gave us ICI, Rusnak, non resident accounts, overcharging, get the financial regulator to help shoot their internal auditor that whistleblew and spilled the beans, Nevis offshore hidden share/pension schemes, offshoot stock broking firms convincing clients to invest in sinking bank, etc.

They have had a bigger stench of sh** about them than all the sewage plants in Ireland put together.

Geuze

green_screen wrote: »

Ah sure, let's just take the houses from them and leave them homeless, probably costing the taxpayer even more to rehome them.

The loss of a home does not imply that the State would have to house them.

Example:

Unaffordable mortgage = 2000 pm

Arrears - repossess

Move into accomm that they can afford at, say, 1000 pm.

Michael54321

Morrisseeee wrote: »

Suffer the greedy Celtic Tigers and chancers who borrowed/lived & partied beyond their means, for they shall receive mercy :(:mad:

..........and they can now LOL @ the rest of us who are paying for it !!

stupid comment to make, what age are you ?....10 were you around during the tiger

The_Conductor

The Irish Times is reporting another 2 debt forgiveness deals by AIB, both in excess of 140k each (no further details available).

fliball123

The_Conductor wrote: »

The Irish Times is reporting another 2 debt forgiveness deals by AIB, both in excess of 140k each (no further details available).

If your a tax payer grab hold of some lub bend over and get ready for the rapping from these deals...How phucking dare they ramp this up..

Michael54321

it is the cheapest option for the tax payer in the long run

fliball123

Michael54321 wrote: »

it is the cheapest option for the tax payer in the long run

How is that? how is letting off someone of 50% of their mortgage repayments straight away cheaper? If they sold the house and any other assets the couple had they would recoup 50% + so either back up your claim or stop spinning..You also do not take into account the effect this is going to have..Already the papers are reporting 2 other deals of 140+ in AIB..Everyone now will want their slice of the magic pie provided by the phucking magic tax payer money tree..Cheaper in the long run..REALLY

The_Conductor

Michael54321 wrote: »

it is the cheapest option for the tax payer in the long run

If you're considering the long run to be 40-50 years, and factoring inflation into the equation- then yes. Right here, right now, nope......

fliball123

The_Conductor wrote: »

If you're considering the long run to be 40-50 years, and factoring inflation into the equation- then yes. Right here, right now, nope......

Also it wont be cheaper even in the long run we have taken out a loan for these write downs which will paid off over the next 50 odd years.

OldNotWIse

Michael54321 wrote: »

it is the cheapest option for the tax payer in the long run

May not be. This could lead to strategic defaulting which we will have to pay for. For policy reasons alone this should not have been allowed.

Michael54321

it is cheaper, any or the people who are after getting debt write off's are still paying back more than the house is worth. If the bank evicted them and they went bankrupt, the local authority would have to house them, if they were in certain jobs like accountants or Garda they would loose their job for being bankrupt. THey would then be in a local authority house on social welfare

Michael54321

fliball123 wrote: »

Also it wont be cheaper even in the long run we have taken out a loan for these write downs which will paid off over the next 50 odd years.

I believe the husband from the 1st write down was in his 50s, he would have to work until he was more than 100

fliball123

Michael54321 wrote: »

I believe the husband from the 1st write down was in his 50s, he would have to work until he was more than 100

Well surely he has a life insurance the bank could get the cash back on his death and if things keep up like this in this country then I and the other tax payers wont be able to retire full stop as there will be feck all left for pensions...Already retirement age has gone from 65 to 67 to 68..by the time I retire it will be up to 75..But no one has the cop to understand that a simple write down for this person has repercussions and links to the spend/tax take and how much we borrow as a nation...So less of the emotive crap as there are people on housing lists with sick kids who could probably have bought this house or rented it from the bank..So for every bleeding heart story for someone getting a deal there are 3/4 for those who are being phucked over by this deal

mjv2ydratu679c

Michael54321 wrote: »

it is the cheapest option for the tax payer in the long run

Nope - debt for equity would be cheaper.

y0ssar1an22

Michael54321 wrote: »

it is cheaper, any or the people who are after getting debt write off's are still paying back more than the house is worth. If the bank evicted them and they went bankrupt, the local authority would have to house them, if they were in certain jobs like accountants or Garda they would loose their job for being bankrupt. THey would then be in a local authority house on social welfare

This whole thing about negative equity is such a sham. At the time they agreed the house was worth 400k, and were happy to buy it. What impact does it have on them if the market thinks the value has now gone down?

As far as I am concerned negative equity only impacts on people who buy to sell, and thats just a bad investment. Like shares or anything else, where a bad investment = loosing money, not getting a bail-out.

Thomas D

green_screen wrote: »

Ah sure, let's just take the houses from them and leave them homeless, probably costing the taxpayer even more to rehome them.

People made mistakes, big fcuking deal. I'd rather my taxes go towards housing somebody /keeping them in their home, than on the numerous people I know defrauding the social welfare.

It's always the same false dichotomies wheeled out. Would you not rather your taxes went on improving everyones lives? Better facilities for all rather than a cash windfall for a family of 4.

Thomas D

I can only hope that this family are shunned in the local community like the beggars they are. I'd make sure I'd be up asking for a pint any time I saw someone like them out in the pub.

fliball123

Thomas D wrote: »

It's always the same false dichotomies wheeled out. Would you not rather your taxes went on improving everyones lives? Better facilities for all rather than a cash windfall for a family of 4.

If the government want to be fair about this ..all deals should be off the table and taxes cut..giving Everyone Working a bit more cash , helping those who are snowed under with their mortgage, but the current picking and choosing vested interest groups such as mortgage holders is a farce

Muahahaha

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Did I miss something? Do you know this is happening or is it a belief you have?

It's a belief I have, I have no doubt in my mind at some stage in the future that we will be hearing about how AIB employees got favourable mortgage write offs. I hope I'm wrong on this but this is Ireland.

Do you think that the system is straight and will treat all people equally ?

skafish

Michael54321 wrote: »

it is cheaper, any or the people who are after getting debt write off's are still paying back more than the house is worth. If the bank evicted them and they went bankrupt, the local authority would have to house them, if they were in certain jobs like accountants or Garda they would loose their job for being bankrupt. THey would then be in a local authority house on social welfare

Negative Equity? What has that got to do with this situation? If the reports are correct, these people have no intention of moving, so the current value of the property is only relevant to the bank, and then only if they re posess.
Most of the people I know are in negative equity. I am. So what?
I borrowed money from a financial institution. I signed what I understood to be a legally binding contract to repay that money, along with an agreed amount of interest. The fact that I used that money to buy a house that is currently worth about half what I paid for it in no way lessens my obligation to repay what I agreed to repay.

Or rather, it didn't until this act of lunacy.

My income has been cut. My wife is currently out of work.

By the logic of this write down, the bank (sorry, every tax payer in the country) should pay for my car. Its only worth about 25% of what I paid for it 6 years ago. I cant afford to clear my credit card this month (electricity and oil take priority this month). Will all you nice people out there pay it for me?

Or will I just act like a mature adult, take responsibility for my actions, and spread out the payments. Sure, it will cost a bit of extra interest, and we won't have much of a family holiday this year. A few day trips, a few picnics on the beach. Great.

But muppets or cute hoers who abused the system and refuse to take responsibility for their own decisions and actions?

Aw, hell, lets just give them a hand out of €150K. My kids and grandkids will pay their mortgage, so they don't have to.

I'm not so much annoyed at the reduction in the debt level, by the way. It may well be that this is the most beneficial arrangement for the bank, as has been stated.

What I find most galling is that if, or rather, when circumstances improve for this family, the bank, which, by the way is owned by us, the citizens of the country, has no recourse to reclaim some or all of this write down.

Are there alternatives?
Certainly, many have already been suggested. Here is another:

This family can no longer afford to live in their current house. why not swap this house for another that they can afford, and move the owners of the cheaper house (or one with the mortgage paid, or almost paid) and where the owners are prepared to and can afford to take on the additional debt?

OMD

Ayla Most Sequel wrote: »

Nope - debt for equity would be cheaper.

Fancy putting some figures on that, detailing why the person would choose debt for equity swap rather than dump the entire debt and go bankrupt in UK.

The_Conductor

David Hall reports receiving in excess of 1000 inquiries from people in not dissimilar positions to the couple who received the 140k debt forgiveness, in the last week, as Taoiseach Enda Kenny calls AIB's move a great deal for the borrowers.........

The Indo are reporting this in a story entitled- New Wave of Families seek debt deals

I'm appalled. Why should anyone bother paying their mortgages? There are hundreds of thousands of struggling families somehow managing to pay their bills- having cut back on absolutely everything- who are about to be hit with a slew of further stealth taxes- yet we have these shenanigans going on.........

Arrrrgghhhhhhh........

mjv2ydratu679c

OMD wrote: »

Fancy putting some figures on that, detailing why the person would choose debt for equity swap rather than dump the entire debt and go bankrupt in UK.

30% of loan written off Bank gets 30% equity in house, 40% etc... it's not rocket science.

If the person doesn't like it fine they can go to the UK and go bankrupt which is not the bed of roses a lot of people on this thread make it out to be. Goodbye chances of ever owning a house again or getting a car loan. It's usually taken as a very last resort.

Not sure why your so against the debt for equity swap idea - obviously your one of the few who is happy to pay extra taxes & higher rents or cope with higher interest rates on your mortgage to pay for these no strings attached gifts.

Cuddlesworth

OMD wrote: »

Fancy putting some figures on that, detailing why the person would choose debt for equity swap rather than dump the entire debt and go bankrupt in UK.

In this case? The loss of two jobs and their net income circa 900k over 15 years, a capital payment of 1.5 times the gross wage of one earner lost including inflation and wage rises, pension contributions for close 15 years lost, including one defined benefits pension, its very unlikely they will find employment again at their age in this economy. And of course no house, cars or assets of any kind.

Why do you assume bankruptcy in England is a great option?

cookie1977

The_Conductor wrote: »

David Hall reports receiving in excess of 1000 inquiries from people in not dissimilar positions to the couple who received the 140k debt forgiveness, in the last week, as Taoiseach Enda Kenny calls AIB's move a great deal for the borrowers.........

The Indo are reporting this in a story entitled- New Wave of Families seek debt deals

I'm appalled. Why should anyone bother paying their mortgages? There are hundreds of thousands of struggling families somehow managing to pay their bills- having cut back on absolutely everything- who are about to be hit with a slew of further stealth taxes- yet we have these shenanigans going on.........

Arrrrgghhhhhhh........

There really should only be temporary parking of debt (split mortgages) or debt forgiveness upon repossession. You cannot have deals like this without it creating extreme adverse feelings amongst those that are doing everything to pay back their debts. This could seriously back fire for the banks and the government if it's seen as a frequently used option to sort out debt. There are so many other choices that can help the customer before we get to outright debt forgiveness.

_Kaiser_

The_Conductor wrote: »

David Hall reports receiving in excess of 1000 inquiries from people in not dissimilar positions to the couple who received the 140k debt forgiveness, in the last week, as Taoiseach Enda Kenny calls AIB's move a great deal for the borrowers.........

The Indo are reporting this in a story entitled- New Wave of Families seek debt deals

I'm appalled. Why should anyone bother paying their mortgages? There are hundreds of thousands of struggling families somehow managing to pay their bills- having cut back on absolutely everything- who are about to be hit with a slew of further stealth taxes- yet we have these shenanigans going on.........

Arrrrgghhhhhhh........

It's another sad joke at the expense of those who were responsible and grown-up about their commitments and responsibilities, all because of this obsession in Ireland with owning property.

I have a credit card and a personal loan that as my circumstances have changed in the last 5 years (redundancy, lower wages etc) I've had to rearrange payments on. But I have to admit - I'm very tempted to walk across the road to the local branch and tell them I won't be paying 33% of it, or that I'm reducing the payments to €50 a month - if it's good enough for some, it's good enough for everyone!

This latest development just reinforces what I've increasingly come to realise - being honest, paying your way, and doing things "right" in this country only leaves you exposed to picking up the tab for the chancers who don't - and it's no longer the "elite" or the welfare fraudsters... now it's average Joe who doesn't want to pay his bills too!

In not even 100 years we have managed to completely destroy the economic and social fabric of this country.. something that will take decades to repair - assuming the will was even there! The failure of this State is complete! :mad:

mjv2ydratu679c

cookie1977 wrote: »

This could seriously back fire for the banks and the government taxpayer if it's seen as a frequently used option to sort out debt. There are so many other choices that can help the customer before we get to outright debt forgiveness.

:eek:

jmayo

The_Conductor wrote: »

David Hall reports receiving in excess of 1000 inquiries from people in not dissimilar positions to the couple who received the 140k debt forgiveness, in the last week, as Taoiseach Enda Kenny calls AIB's move a great deal for the borrowers.........

The Indo are reporting this in a story entitled- New Wave of Families seek debt deals

If we just work on a conservative estimate of 1000 people receiving only half as much that equates to another 75 million that the banks have to come up with.
And in the case of the taxpayer funded ones (AIB, former EBS, former INBS) that means 75 million more of taxpayers funds is gone.

cookie1977 wrote: »

There really should only be temporary parking of debt (split mortgages) or debt forgiveness upon repossession. You cannot have deals like this without it creating extreme adverse feelings amongst those that are doing everything to pay back their debts. This could seriously back fire for the banks and the government if it's seen as a frequently used option to sort out debt. There are so many other choices that can help the customer before we get to outright debt forgiveness.

For once I think we are on same hymm sheet.
Glad you are coming around.

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

It's another sad joke at the expense of those who were responsible and grown-up about their commitments and responsibilities, all because of this obsession in Ireland with owning property.

I have a credit card and a personal loan that as my circumstances have changed in the last 5 years (redundancy, lower wages etc) I've had to rearrange payments on. But I have to admit - I'm very tempted to walk across the road to the local branch and tell them I won't be paying 33% of it, or that I'm reducing the payments to €50 a month - if it's good enough for some, it's good enough for everyone!

This latest development just reinforces what I've increasingly come to realise - being honest, paying your way, and doing things "right" in this country only leaves you exposed to picking up the tab for the chancers who don't - and it's no longer the "elite" or the welfare fraudsters... now it's average Joe who doesn't want to pay his bills too!

In not even 100 years we have managed to completely destroy the economic and social fabric of this country.. something that will take decades to repair - assuming the will was even there! The failure of this State is complete! :mad:

I gave up on this country a while ago.
The ultimate was learning that charitable contributions meant for disadvantaged kids were actually destined to be used as the salaries and pensions for the connected.

Seeing as we are approaching the centenary of 1916, I wonder what the likes of Pearse et al would have made of what we have become as a free state.

cookie1977

jmayo wrote: »

For once I think we are on same hymm sheet.
Glad you are coming around.

My ideas have not changed. I was never in favor of debt forgiveness the way AIB have gone about it this time. I was in favour of doing all that was possible to allow people stay in their homes short of debt rightoff. The only time debt write off which was acceptable to me was in the case of a repossession and subsequent sale that fell short of the debt. The outstanding debt then should be written off. So I haven't come around to anything new

fliball123

cookie1977 wrote: »

My ideas have not changed. I was never in favor of debt forgiveness the way AIB have gone about it this time. I was in favour of doing all that was possible to allow people stay in their homes short of debt rightoff. The only time debt write off which was acceptable to me was in the case of a repossession and subsequent sale that fell short of the debt. The outstanding debt then should be written off. So I haven't come around to anything new

Why should the remaining debt be written off..can you quantify a reason why these people should shift their debt to others?

cookie1977

fliball123 wrote: »

Why should the remaining debt be written off..can you quantify a reason why these people should shift their debt to others?

Not going to thrash all that out here again. We/I have discussed it in detail here if you want to have a read: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056898823

fliball123

cookie1977 wrote: »

Not going to thrash all that out here again. We/I have discussed it in detail here if you want to have a read: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056898823

I am not going to go through a whole thread..just give me a 1/2 point summary as to why you think peoples debts should be taken off them and slapped onto other people, many of who are struggling and cannot afford them?

cookie1977

fliball123 wrote: »

I am not going to go through a whole thread..just give me a 1/2 point summary as to why you think peoples debts should be taken off them and slapped onto other people, many of who are struggling and cannot afford them?

Because I dont believe in getting blood out of a stone and our mortgage system and bankruptcy laws are in some ways penal. If they've lost their house and it's sold off then let the people re start their lives. Otherwise they could become a burden on the tax payer through social schemes.

fliball123

cookie1977 wrote: »

Because I dont believe in getting blood out of a stone and our mortgage system and bankruptcy laws are in some ways penal. If they've lost their house and it's sold off then let the people re start their lives. Otherwise they could become a burden on the tax payer through social schemes.

Why were these people not stating this blood from a stone metaphore at the time they signed for the loan? What about the blood from the stone that is already an over burdened and over stretched tax payer that is already on the lamb for over 200billion in debts + another 9 billion this year..What about that phucking stone ?

Our bankrupcy laws are not strong enough and the mortgage system which currently allowing someone walk away with 3/8s of their debt written off with no recourse, another 1/8th with no interest being paid..and they get to stay in the phucking house..and you think thats penal? What planet are you living on?