Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Borrow €400k from AIB and only pay back €250k
Options
Comments
-
-
Nino Brown wrote: »I thought I was being smart not buying a house in the biggest property bubble in history. Turn's out I was a huge f**cking eejit. Here I am still renting AND paying other peoples mortgages, I can't afford kids but I pay for other people's kids. If you're smart enough to live within your means in this country you should always carry Vaseline and knee pads.
Nail on the head.
Genuinely can't see why they weren't just given a new mortgage over a longer period to lower the repayment costs, they can't be so badly snowed under with debt that this was the only feasible outcome.
Irrespective of what it costs AIB (and by AIB I mean the taxpayer since we're footing their losses) in the long term it sets a terrible example for other people struggling to live within their means and pay their mortgages.This couple will actually be in a better position when we get back to fiscal stability and growth than sensible people specifically because they now don't have to dedicate a large portion of their income to clearing off their mortgage while being able to live in the same home they always have.
Someone said earlier they shouldn't have to live their whole lives paying for a mistake they made, I couldn't disagree more vehemently. Becoming a functioning adult means living with the consequences of your decisions, good and bad.
"But you'll be doing irreparable harm to their children by taking away their family home", yeah, and what about the children of other people who struggle to pay off their debts but manage to do so? Or those who downsized/moved out to commuter towns because they had to? Instead all this couple's kids have been taught is to milk the system in the good times and throw in the towel with **** hits the fan because someone else will just have to pick up their debts for them.0 -
maybe the banks should be looking into much longer terms for their mortgages.
im not 100% but i believe in the likes of Japan they have very long mortgages, that pass on to the children.
perhaps that what they should be doing, pass on the debt or give the house up, if the debt was passed on at least there would be some chance of it eventually being paid back, or the children could sell the house.
i dont know how that would work but it has to be better than people who obviously know someone getting looked after and everyone else going to hell.0 -
maybe the banks should be looking into much longer terms for their mortgages.
im not 100% but i believe in the likes of Japan they have very long mortgages, that pass on to the children.
perhaps that what they should be doing, pass on the debt or give the house up, if the debt was passed on at least there would be some chance of it eventually being paid back, or the children could sell the house.
i dont know how that would work but it has to be better than people who obviously know someone getting looked after and everyone else going to hell.
I think it was David McSavage who in a comedy sketch taking the piss out of bubble prices coined the concept of a 'Hindu Mortgage', the mortgage would be reincarnated and carry on through the generations.
In any case a mortgage that is passed from adult to child would likely be unconstitutional under Irish law- an adult isn't allowed to restrict their child's financial future and freedom by tying it to their own.
But it is perhaps ironic that the State can do it, after all children who are only born today will be paying off our €240 billion national debt for eons to come.
This whole debt write down with no penalty or clawback for the taxpayer nonsense certainly put a lie to the opposition parties claim that Fine Gael and Labour have been totally underfunding social housing- they haven't as today's taxpayer gift of €150k to that couple has proved. Indeed with David Hall having a several thousand cases of distressed homeowners on his books I have a funny feeling that the taxpayer is going to be spending a lot on social housing over the next while. Some of the social housing will be McMansions in the country and then we can boast to foreign direct investors, 'Come to Ireland, things are so great here that we have a social housing scheme for people who don't pay their debts, people who can pay their debts fund the scheme, sure it's great'
What a rotten little nation we live in. No doubt in years to come we'll be having a tribunal to investigate how several thousand insiders (read AIB employees) with AIB mortgages got write downs courtesy of the taxpayer. It might all be done in secret now but this will be front page news some day, it is virtually guaranteed in this stinking corrupt excuse of a nation0 -
Nino Brown wrote: »....I thought I was being smart not buying a house in the biggest property bubble in history. Turn's out I was a huge f**cking eejit. Here I am still renting AND paying other peoples mortgages, I can't afford kids but I pay for other people's kids. If you're smart enough to live within your means in this country you should always carry Vaseline and knee pads.
Amen to that....I can only in theory get a mortgage of 110k due to the nature of my sales job..let alone 150k!0 -
Advertisement
-
Kaiser2000 wrote: »Post of the month IMO
I was the same.. got the same calls from AIB every other week offering free money, pre-approved mortgages for several hundred thousand euro, but I refused it as I figured I'd be screwed for decades if I lost my job (something which happened a few years later), and the idea of living in the middle of nowhere, with a 2/3 hour commute wasn't too appealing in my single 20s.
What I SHOULD have done was take every penny they were offering as I've ended up paying for it anyway through taxation and other inventive means of extracting more from my monthly paycheque while those who did gamble and lost are rewarded for it as in this case.
But I've learned my lesson even if no-one else has.. when it all starts again I will take all I can get... run up the credit cards, buy expensive cars, go on lots of holidays, and get a McMansion in the country because when things go sour I'll just cry poverty, blame the banks/estate agents/government/neighbours/friends/family .. ANYONE except myself!
It'll work too! :rolleyes:
My brother and I took on our parents mortgage when they could no longer pay it due to illness and then retirement. No biggy, not looking for a medal. Parents bring you up, tables turn, you do your bit etc but looking at the way things are now, we would have been better to say, "look mam, just default ok? The tax paying worker ants will be bailing you out anyway, and instead of paying your mortgage (and our own rent) we will both take out mortgages on other homes and default on those too! Fuuck it sure its free money! Come on, lets all jump on!" :rolleyes:0 -
What a rotten little nation we live in. No doubt in years to come we'll be having a tribunal to investigate how several thousand insiders (read AIB employees) with AIB mortgages got write downs courtesy of the taxpayer. It might all be done in secret now but this will be front page news some day, it is virtually guaranteed in this stinking corrupt excuse of a nation
Did I miss something? Do you know this is happening or is it a belief you have?0 -
Is anyone else really curious as to what property in Dublin could now be selling for 25% of it's boom price?
I wonder if the valuation of the property presented was taken a couple of years ago and conservative even then?0 -
have most of you forgotten the noughties? House prices going up 20-30% per annum, tax cuts, pay rises, jobs for everyone? We were never going to see a bad day again according to Bertie, the media and every economic commentator you could find. And the proof of it was going into your local bank, who know everything about money. If you wanted €250K they would give you €400K. Better buy that house at any price against competition who are in a buying frenzy / panic before you are left homeless forever. Sure, if you ran into any kind of difficulty Eddie Hobbs was on the telly showing you how you could re-finance all kinds of stupid loans on the massive swelling value of your house.
The facts in this specific case are pretty clear. A couple have had their income cut drastically and cannot afford their existing loans. The bank can turf them out (after a lengthy legal process) and will be lucky to realize the €100K mentioned earlier after all the costs and the couple will have to get state housing because they will have less than zero chance of obtaining a mortgage elsewhere. Who benefits from that? This is a sound commercial decision that makes perfect sense to me. If it was a trophy home, fine, let them downsize but €400K on a house in boom time Dublin was the price of what would be regarded in the rest of the country as a kip (with all due respect to you Dubs, I think the market in Dublin is crazy now, never mind the boom times).
Wanting to see people punished for the sake of it says a lot about some of the posters here. As I see it the circumstances this is a good result for the bank and it allows a family to sleep and breathe again and live something approaching a normal life. In my experience most people in financial difficulty are living a stressful nightmare usually controlled by valium and it bloody distresses me to see it. I am absollutely delighted to see someone emerge from this into the daylight and the hope that gives to others.
PS to save myself having to post again, I own my own home and have no mortgage and I have no idea who this couple are. I want to see a lot of people punished for the carnage of the last 5 years just not ordinary working people.0 -
have most of you forgotten the noughties? House prices going up 20-30% per annum, tax cuts, pay rises, jobs for everyone? We were never going to see a bad day again according to Bertie, the media and every economic commentator you could find. And the proof of it was going into your local bank, who know everything about money. If you wanted €250K they would give you €400K. Better buy that house at any price against competition who are in a buying frenzy / panic before you are left homeless forever. Sure, if you ran into any kind of difficulty Eddie Hobbs was on the telly showing you how you could re-finance all kinds of stupid loans on the massive swelling value of your house.
The facts in this specific case are pretty clear. A couple have had their income cut drastically and cannot afford their existing loans. The bank can turf them out (after a lengthy legal process) and will be lucky to realize the €100K mentioned earlier after all the costs and the couple will have to get state housing because they will have less than zero chance of obtaining a mortgage elsewhere. Who benefits from that? This is a sound commercial decision that makes perfect sense to me. If it was a trophy home, fine, let them downsize but €400K on a house in boom time Dublin was the price of what would be regarded in the rest of the country as a kip (with all due respect to you Dubs, I think the market in Dublin is crazy now, never mind the boom times).
Wanting to see people punished for the sake of it says a lot about some of the posters here. As I see it the circumstances this is a good result for the bank and it allows a family to sleep and breathe again and live something approaching a normal life. In my experience most people in financial difficulty are living a stressful nightmare usually controlled by valium and it bloody distresses me to see it. I am absollutely delighted to see someone emerge from this into the daylight and the hope that gives to others.
PS to save myself having to post again, I own my own home and have no mortgage and I have no idea who this couple are. I want to see a lot of people punished for the carnage of the last 5 years just not ordinary working people.
The problem with your argument is that it makes those "ordinary working people" out to be blameless victims, which just isn't the case.
No-one FORCED anyone to sign up to ridiculous mortgages for shoddily-built shoebox apartments or Semi-D's in the middle of nowhere. People knew (or were obliged to know!) exactly what they were getting into
That's not absolving the banks, media, politicians etc for feeding the frenzy, but it's a bit much for people to cry foul now that their "investment"/"sure thing" wasn't QUITE the easy money they thought it'd be!
Incidentally not EVERYONE bought into the madness (see my and others posts above) and there WERE those who called for measures to calm things but such notions were dismissed and the "doomsayers" told to go commit suicide and such!
I have every sympathy for people who are struggling to pay their bills but those are THEIR bills - not mine, or any other taxpayer's - no more than my rent, credit card, personal loan is.
What we have in this country is grown adults who want to act like children and be absolved of all responsibility - moral, legal and financial - now that things have turned sour, and while the lenders should be required and obliged to work with these people to restructure their debts, under no circumstances should these simply be "written off" - not just because the money debt doesn't actually disappear, it's just paid by others BUT ALSO BECAUSE by doing so we not only absolve such irresponsible behaviour but actively encourage it!
And THAT is where the problem with this "deal" is!0 -
Advertisement
-
PS to save myself having to post again, I own my own home and have no mortgage and I have no idea who this couple are. I want to see a lot of people punished for the carnage of the last 5 years just not ordinary working people.
Ordinary working people who paid too much are the reason we are here now. Ultimately it was them who signed on the bottom line. And this deal is a flare in the sky for all those others who are employed and struggling to pay their mortgages. Ignoring the others who will most likely not find work again.0 -
Looks like the floodgates are opening ... with more people trying to grab a similar handout...
http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/new-wave-of-families-seek-debt-deals-30088298.html
This handout for unsuccessful gambling is just WRONG. As someone already posted, if this happened in any other country the house would be repo'd and sold a long time ago.!!
Only in Ireland not only do people get off scot free for this type of financial incompetence, they get 150k.
This is two fingers to the rest of us 'goons' paying mortgages/rent.
I'm off to hound my local councillors, and take to the streets....Kildare Street isn't it?0 -
Ordinary working people are being punished every day to pay for the free money for the likes of this couple. Where I come from 'ordinary working people' dont own 400 thousand euro mortgages, they rent in a market with rents going through the roof or have modest mortgages in less desirable locations because, like their working class parents before them, debt was something to avoid, not embrace like the vulture classes have.PS to save myself having to post again, I own my own home and have no mortgage and I have no idea who this couple are. I want to see a lot of people punished for the carnage of the last 5 years just not ordinary working people.0 -
Kaiser2000 wrote: »The problem with your argument is that it makes those "ordinary working people" out to be blameless victims, which just isn't the case.
No-one FORCED anyone to sign up to ridiculous mortgages for shoddily-built shoebox apartments or Semi-D's in the middle of nowhere. People knew (or were obliged to know!) exactly what they were getting into
That's not absolving the banks, media, politicians etc for feeding the frenzy, but it's a bit much for people to cry foul now that their "investment"/"sure thing" wasn't QUITE the easy money they thought it'd be!
Incidentally not EVERYONE bought into the madness (see my and others posts above) and there WERE those who called for measures to calm things but such notions were dismissed and the "doomsayers" told to go commit suicide and such!
I have every sympathy for people who are struggling to pay their bills but those are THEIR bills - not mine, or any other taxpayer's - no more than my rent, credit card, personal loan is.
What we have in this country is grown adults who want to act like children and be absolved of all responsibility - moral, legal and financial - now that things have turned sour, and while the lenders should be required and obliged to work with these people to restructure their debts, under no circumstances should these simply be "written off" - not just because the money debt doesn't actually disappear, it's just paid by others BUT ALSO BECAUSE by doing so we not only absolve such irresponsible behaviour but actively encourage it!
And THAT is where the problem with this "deal" is!
OK, just look at the figues. Someone owes €400K but can only afford to repay €250K. The house is worth, lets say €150K. After the bank obtain an eviction, appoint a receiver, selling and legal costs they would be very lucky to get €125K in about two years time. This way they get €250K. That just makes sound commercial sense and the sooner it happens on a grand scale, the sooner all of us can enjoy a functioning economy again.
Apart from inflicting humiliation on these people I see no reason to turf them out onto the street and into the social welfare system which we will all have to pay for anyway.Would it help if they spent a day in the stocks on, say, Stephen's Green? Would that help you get over their heinous crime of borrowing money they mistakenly thought they could afford to repay?0 -
OK, just look at the figues. Someone owes €400K but can only afford to repay €250K. The house is worth, lets say €150K. After the bank obtain an eviction, appoint a receiver, selling and legal costs they would be very lucky to get €125K in about two years time. This way they get €250K. That just makes sound commercial sense and the sooner it happens on a grand scale, the sooner all of us can enjoy a functioning economy again.
Apart from inflicting humiliation on these people I see no reason to turf them out onto the street and into the social welfare system which we will all have to pay for anyway.Would it help if they spent a day in the stocks on, say, Stephen's Green? Would that help you get over their heinous crime of borrowing money they mistakenly thought they could afford to repay?
Thats just silly emotive stuff....talk of streets, stocks, humiliation.:rolleyes:
And looks like the 'heinous crime' that you mention has turned into a nice bonus for them alone. But not for the 10's of thousands struggling but keeping everything going.
Debates like this will continue because there is a lack of transparency. We do not need to know these people's names, but info should be put out there of their salaries, initial house price paid and what it's worth now (i'd like to see a house that's fallen close to 75% in Dublin in the last few years...thats BS if I ever hear it), their monthly spend categories etc.
The we all could see the wood from the trees on these cases.
It's not too much to ask...this is tax payers money after all0 -
Apart from inflicting humiliation on these people I see no reason to turf them out onto the street and into the social welfare system which we will all have to pay for anyway.Would it help if they spent a day in the stocks on, say, Stephen's Green? Would that help you get over their heinous crime of borrowing money they mistakenly thought they could afford to repay?
Im amazed how you think someone whose just effectively been given 300 grand for free at the expense of other poor workaday gob****es are somehow the victims in this?0 -
-
So what would your solution be?
Debt for equity swap, longer term on the mortgage, park part of the principal until the end of the mortgage where it could be paid off when the property is sold, or a combination of the above. Not free money for the people who drove the property bubble at the expense of those who didnt.0 -
Debt for equity swap, longer term on the mortgage, park part of the principal until the end of the mortgage where it could be paid off when the property is sold, or a combination of the above. Not free money for the people who drove the property bubble at the expense of those who didnt.
or pay some Russians to pay a visit to those guys who don't pay for their 12 houses and 6 cars.0 -
Debt for equity swap, longer term on the mortgage, park part of the principal until the end of the mortgage where it could be paid off when the property is sold, or a combination of the above. Not free money for the people who drove the property bubble at the expense of those who didnt.
On a property which is massively under water, with a mortgage that is probably already at least 25 to 30 years to run given the length of, mortgages towards the end of the Tiger? In other words you think people should work for the rest of their lives paying off a loan that is worth more than the house only to hand over that house at some point in the future.
Or... they could give up their jobs, go to the UK for a year and declare bankruptcy, return to Ireland and present themselves at Social Welfare and demand a house and appoximately €400 a week in welfare. Why work for the rest of your life for the bank when you can enjoy all the comforts of a state income? With the bankruptcy behind them they could even rejoin the workforce if they so choose.
Anyone else have any practical suggestions?0 -
Advertisement
-
On a property which is massively under water, with a mortgage that is probably already at least 25 to 30 years to run given the length of, mortgages towards the end of the Tiger? In other words you think people should work for the rest of their lives paying off a loan that is worth more than the house only to hand over that house at some point in the future.
Or... they could give up their jobs, go to the UK for a year and declare bankruptcy, return to Ireland and present themselves at Social Welfare and demand a house and appoximately €400 a week in welfare. Why work for the rest of your life for the bank when you can enjoy all the comforts of a state income? With the bankruptcy behind them they could even rejoin the workforce if they so choose.
Anyone else have any practical suggestions?
As opposed to asking us to work for the rest of our lives paying off someone else's loan on a house we will never have an equitable or legal interest in?0 -
Anyone else have any practical suggestions?
This mess has built up over the years of the repossession moratorium.
We need to get back to a normal functioning property market. With normal occurrences of sales transactions, repossessions, bad debt write downs and auctions of repossessed properties.
That is the only way out of this mess.
It ensures a fair society, encourages financial prudence and I would wager it will reduce property prices/rental prices to actually correct levels and decrease the Department of Social Protection expenditure on RA.
This protracted game of Kerplunck! has to stop.0 -
Yes, if they cant meet the repayments in cash then they should use the asset to cover the mortgage. Thats how mortgages work. Why is this so shocking to you?On a property which is massively under water, with a mortgage that is probably already at least 25 to 30 years to run given the length of, mortgages towards the end of the Tiger? In other words you think people should work for the rest of their lives paying off a loan that is worth more than the house only to hand over that house at some point in the future.
Tell me this, is this one way bet in financial transactions a permanent thing now or is it only for our celtic tiger cubs? Can I pop down to AIB and pick up a one-way bet mortgage for any amount I like? I fancy a georgian house in D6, sure if I cant meet the payments you can pay for it for me. :rolleyes:0 -
OldNotWIse wrote: »As opposed to asking us to work for the rest of our lives paying off someone else's loan on a house we will never have an equitable or legal interest in?
It is a stark choice isn't it? The satisfaction of extracting revenge on these morons versus the cost of supporting them on welfare. It sure is tough being smug.0 -
It is a stark choice isn't it? The satisfaction of extracting revenge on these morons versus the cost of supporting them on welfare. It sure is tough being smug.
Expecting that someone repays their debts instead of saddling the taxpayer with them is "extracting revenge" now?
I'm not smug. I'm annoyed.0 -
Yes, if they cant meet the repayments in cash then they should use the asset to cover the mortgage. Thats how mortgages work. Why is this so shocking to you?
Tell me this, is this one way bet in financial transactions a permanent thing now or is it only for our celtic tiger cubs? Can I pop down to AIB and pick up a one-way bet mortgage for any amount I like? I fancy a georgian house in D6, sure if I cant meet the payments you can pay for it for me. :rolleyes:
Please try and stick with the facts. This is a €400K mortgage taken out in Tiger times. I donlt think that bought too many D6 Georgian mansions.
If the bank will lend to you enough money to buy one under your current circumstances and something befalls you such as unemployment, illness, or (how could this happen?) the world economy falls off a clif, I think you will find that the bank will call you in a work out a solution that is best for them. And that is the crucial thing, this settlement means the couple paying more for the house than it is currently worth. That is the best solution for the bank.0 -
It is a stark choice isn't it? The satisfaction of extracting revenge on these morons versus the cost of supporting them on welfare. It sure is tough being smug.
Not stark at all, moving to the UK followed by a subsistence existence on welfare vs continuing to live in privately owned four hundred thousand euro house with two incomes for a knockdown mortgage rate. You are talking like these are somehow equivalent.0 -
-
On a property which is massively under water, with a mortgage that is probably already at least 25 to 30 years to run given the length of, mortgages towards the end of the Tiger? In other words you think people should work for the rest of their lives paying off a loan that is worth more than the house only to hand over that house at some point in the future.
Or... they could give up their jobs, go to the UK for a year and declare bankruptcy, return to Ireland and present themselves at Social Welfare and demand a house and appoximately €400 a week in welfare. Why work for the rest of your life for the bank when you can enjoy all the comforts of a state income? With the bankruptcy behind them they could even rejoin the workforce if they so choose.
Anyone else have any practical suggestions?
Debt for equity swap.0 -
Advertisement
-
Debates like this will continue because there is a lack of transparency. We do not need to know these people's names, but info should be put out there of their salaries, initial house price paid and what it's worth now (i'd like to see a house that's fallen close to 75% in Dublin in the last few years...thats BS if I ever hear it), their monthly spend categories etc.
The we all could see the wood from the trees on these cases.
It's not too much to ask...this is tax payers money after all
We need full transparency including names (possibly a register). Hoe do we know this wasn't the local bank manager writing of the local superintendent's mortgage in return for the removal of a few penalty points (extreme example I know).
If we have learned anything in the last 20 years it's that those with connections will try to game any system for their own profit. With taxpayer's money involved we need FULL transparency to avoid the sort of cronyism that eventually resulted in the IMF running the country for the last few years.0
![[Deleted User]](/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
Advertisement