Extract brewing

loyatemu

how much water does the chiller use? (it's free now but it won't be in 6 months time).

Khannie

I was wondering this too. Partly from an eco perspective as well as a cost one.

drumswan

Brewing uses lots of water, not least the cooling bit. I use the initial hot water runoff to do the cleanup afterwards and most of the rest on the garden.

Khannie

Khannie wrote: »

is there much of a quality difference between spray malt and liquid malt extract?

Bit of a bump on this and another question -

There seems to be a preference for electric boilers over large (catering sized) stock pots. Is there a reason for that? Price looks approximately the same. We have a decent gas hob.

drumswan

Khannie wrote: »

Bit of a bump on this and another question -

There seems to be a preference for electric boilers over large (catering sized) stock pots. Is there a reason for that? Price looks approximately the same. We have a decent gas hob.

Boiler is portable and more suited to where I am, Ive a standard electric hob, doubt I'd get enough heat into a 25+ litre boil with it, if I did bringing it to the boil would take forever.

Ive had slightly better results with DME myself, though I havent really done an exact equivalent beer using DME and LME to compare. LME is considerably cheaper in the online homebrew spots. DME is also handy to use for priming, yeast starters etc as you can measure it out more easily.

BeerNut

Khannie wrote: »

There seems to be a preference for electric boilers over large (catering sized) stock pots. Is there a reason for that?

For me the steam is one issue, boiling wort is not like cooking a stew: there's a lot of steam. Boilover is another: wiping down my brewing table and hosing off the patio is much more conducive to domestic harmony than scraping burnt encrusted DME off a hob. I know of one bad boilover that gummed up the gas jets of a hob completely. The other question is running wort into the fermenter. My boiler has a hop strainer and tap. The best I could do with a stockpot was pour in through a sieve, losing the handy filtration effect of the hop bed.

Khannie

BeerNut wrote: »

For me the steam is one issue, boiling wort is not like cooking a stew: there's a lot of steam.

Tell me more. I'm lazy, so I was hoping to do as large a brew as possible. I recently did 2 x 30L of cider and the hassle reduction versus two separate brews was lovely so I was eyeballing some of the very large stock pots (like 60-75L type size) with the thought of doing one large brew for two fermenting buckets. I wasn't expecting steam to be an issue though.

This is a smidge academic for now. I'll pick up one of those 19L ones you mentioned before for my first few brews.

BeerNut wrote: »

Boilover is another: wiping down my brewing table and hosing off the patio is much more conducive to domestic harmony than scraping burnt encrusted DME off a hob. I know of one bad boilover that gummed up the gas jets of a hob completely.

I hear people mentioning it quite frequently. Not to be funny, but it doesn't happen with stew, why so much with brewing? (or is it just more disastrous when it does happen?)

BeerNut wrote: »

The other question is running wort into the fermenter. My boiler has a hop strainer and tap. The best I could do with a stockpot was pour in through a sieve, losing the handy filtration effect of the hop bed.

I don't quite understand this, but I suppose I will after I've done a brew.

BeerNut

Khannie wrote: »

Tell me more.

Stick a big pot of water on the hob. Bring it to the boil and boil it at full tilt for an hour: that's how much steam is involved.

Khannie wrote: »

why so much with brewing?

It's not enough to just simmer a wort: you want an active, turbulent, rolling boil. When it's a concentrated sugar-and-protein solution that's being boiled, it will foam and boil over if not carefully managed. And once that stuff burns on, it sticks.

Khannie wrote: »

I don't quite understand this, but I suppose I will after I've done a brew.

It's a fairly minor technical issue, I guess, but you'll get clearer beer and cleaner flavours by running the wort through a strainer and out of a tap in the boiler rather than just tipping it from a stockpot through a sieve into the fermenter.

Khannie

BeerNut wrote: »

It's not enough to just simmer a wort

This is the key I was missing I suppose. What would happen if you did just simmer it?

BeerNut

Your hop utilisation will suck. A vigorous boil gets your hops doing what hops are meant to do*.


*by everyone except God

Khannie

This sounds like an interesting experiment to me. The idea of boiling the arse out of something with the lid off for 60 minutes makes my gas bill wallet / electricity bill wallet / save the earth head cringe.

What do commercial brewers do? I would guess that energy costs are a real issue for them.

BeerNut

Khannie wrote: »

What do commercial brewers do? I would guess that energy costs are a real issue for them.

Yup, especially as 90 minute boils aren't unusual. They get the most efficient equipment they can: steam jackets and whatnot. And they leave the lid on.

loyatemu

boilers seem to be 2Kw or so (same as a standard kettle) so an hour's boil will cost you ~40c. YMMV with gas.

Is the lid left off just to prevent boiling over?

BeerNut

I leave my lid ajar. It boils over if fully on.

drumswan

Khannie wrote: »

This sounds like an interesting experiment to me. The idea of boiling the arse out of something with the lid off for 60 minutes makes my gas bill wallet / electricity bill wallet / save the earth head cringe.

What do commercial brewers do? I would guess that energy costs are a real issue for them.

Simmering wort wouldnt produce drinkable beer.

http://byo.com/stories/item/1650-wort-boiling-homebrew-science

I doubt a non commercial hob could effectively boil 60-70L of wort.

Khannie

drumswan wrote: »

Simmering wort wouldnt produce drinkable beer.

http://byo.com/stories/item/1650-wort-boiling-homebrew-science

I read all of that. It doesn't really answer it for me, but I'll take your word for it.

drumswan wrote: »

I doubt a non commercial hob could effectively boil 60-70L of wort.

I was thinking more like, say 55 odd litres in a 75L vessel with the lid on (or barely ajar). We have one very decent ring. I'll see how it goes with the 19L one anyway. It will be an information point I suppose.

Knifey Spoony

I thought that you weren't meant to leave the lid on during the boil. Leaving it on while getting to the boil would be fine but during the boil:

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Once you achieve a boil, only partially cover the pot, if at all. Why? Because in wort there are sulfur compounds that evolve and boil off. If they aren't removed during the boil, the can form dimethyl sulfide which contributes a cooked cabbage or corn-like flavor to the beer. If the cover is left on the pot, or left on such that the condensate from the lid can drip back in, then these flavors will have a much greater chance of showing up in the finished beer.[/FONT]

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter7-2.html

Khannie

Partially open it is.

Condensed steam is relatively pure though, no?

BeerNut

It's not just steam, though. Steam doesn't smell malty or hoppy

Khannie

BeerNut wrote: »

It's not just steam, though. Steam doesn't smell malty or hoppy

No, of course lots of chemicals are being released. I just mean the steam that condenses on the lid and goes back in with a partially covered pot should be relatively clean. That's my (*very*) limited understanding.

oblivious

Khannie wrote: »

No, of course lots of chemicals are being released. I just mean the steam that condenses on the lid and goes back in with a partially covered pot should be relatively clean. That's my (*very*) limited understanding.

Even with extract there will be some DME produced in the boil, its a off flavor ( corn or sweet corn aroma). Allowing this steam to drive off will help remove this volatile compound

BeerNut

oblivious wrote: »

there will be some DME produced in the boil

DMS.

oblivious

BeerNut wrote: »

DMS.

I blame autocorrect

Khannie

So I may be performing a little experiment with regards to lid off / lid partially on. Friend of mine is interested in helping me measure the amount of DMS caused by leaving the lid partially on versus fully off. I'll be kicking off two batches, probably at the weekend.

Would anyone be interested in this? I think it sounds like good geeking. Might put the question to rest once and for all, too.

BeerNut

I don't think there's any question over partially on vs. off. It's only if the lid is fully on, so the steam condenses back in, that the problem arises.

Khannie

edit: I misread.

I think a lot of the steam would condense on the lid anyway and go back in with a partial covering, no?

BeerNut

I've never stuck my head under to check.

Khannie

Try it next time. :pac:

Khannie

What's a reasonable starting volume for a 19L pot that will likely avoid boil overs?

BeerNut

I might risk 15, but I'd be keeping an eye on it the whole way through.