Consultants and doctors

Metal_Maiden

I have a condition called postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome. However most doctors here have never heard of it and some others use different terms, so I end up using vague terms like 'autonomic dysfunction' or 'orthostatic problems'. Basically it means whenever I'm standing my heart goes extremely fast, and I can faint. When it gets bad, like now, I have daily low fevers, and spend most of my time sweating and/or vomiting with chest pains, agitation and all sorts of horribleness. I was admitted to hospital a few days ago basically to recuperate a bit cos I couldn't stand at all, but then my doctor, who treated the condition when he was abroad, went away and I had to see a different guy.

Well. The thing with autonomic dysfunction is that none of the drugs currently work very well, and I haven't had any luck with them. There's basically nothing doctors can do for it sometimes, except physio or weekly IV saline infusions, neither of which are done in this country. So it's a chronic debilitating condition (or 'nuisance' as some docs say) that doctors can't do anything about, and they absolutely love those. So naturally docs who don't know much about it have to imply you're psychologically ill, because otherwise you should be able to handle it according to them. Like the guy today: 'you can have a pain in your leg, but some people perceive it worse than others'. I reminded him that he really has no idea what my condition feels like. I told him that before I was diagnosed I was on benzodiazepines (xanax, valium) for months, and while they made very calm and positive, they did nothing to help me stand. When I would take issue with something, he would ask his underlings 'is that what I said?' and they had to go 'No, no!' instantly. He demonstrated complete ignorance about my condition (saying for example that exercise didn't help it, which is the opposite of true according to all research ever), and instead of admitting it, he got sarcastic when I had to correct him. He walked away from my bed and down the hall going 'Wow. Wow.' In short, he was a ****, and I was feeling way too sick to put up with it. For the temperatures, he called them 'weird' and gave me a prescription for paracetamol (which I was already taking).

This is far from the first experience of this sort I have had, nor the worst, and I know others with any kind of chronic condition experience the same. My mom even had very rude, dismissive treatment from some when she had serious cancer. Why do they have to be like this? Some of them can manage to say 'I can't help much but I understand this is very difficult' but many can't. They feel that people should be able to ignore anything they can't treat. They act as if, if they can't treat it, it must be trivial or your fault somehow. They feel they have the authority to concoct all kinds of weird theories about your life, and you leave feeling utterly degraded sometimes. The lack of resources atm has made treatment of non-fatal conditions practically evaporate I know, but there's more to it than that. There is something truly wrong in the medical culture here.

(Btw, if anyone reading this has POTS and feel you could use some help, please message me as I'd like to see about setting up a support group in Ireland. Even if you're doing okay, I'd like to get an idea about numbers.)

c68zapdsm5i1ru

There are some very nice consultants out there but yes, some are very arrogant - either talking down to patients or using complicated jargon that the patient can't understand. I suppose there's people like that in every area of employment but because you're usually feeling worried and vulnerable when you're visiting a consultant that kind of behaviour really impacts on you.
I'm sorry you're having such a bad time of it.

'They' aren't all the same, and most of them are very caring.

In the public system many of them are very pressed for time and under extreme amounts of pressure, and it doesn't always make for a pleasant mood. It's no excuse, but sometimes you catch them on a bad day, just like everybody else.

Metal_Maiden

Candie, I wish that was it, but it's not. I never said they were all the same. Since I got sick, I have encountered a number of different types of doctors. Some who cared and try to help (the smallest group), some who think autonomic dysfunction is simply incurable but at least didn't patronise me, and some who were very rude. That last group has been about 25%, and higher amongst amongst hospital doctors. Try being a young woman with a slightly rare, chronic condition and see what kind of treatment you get.

Hitchens

there are a lot of fúckin' cocksuckers like him in the medical field

Outkast_IRE

Honestly I feel its partially to do with the ridiculous points it is in the leaving cert and the pressure that people going for high points feel the need to pick medicine. The result being a segment of them that are in medicine for the wrong reasons and ultimately don't really have much compassion or bed-side manners worth talking about.

There are some very good consultants out there who I couldn't fault. But like every other profession there are a good segment who would probably be happier doing other work but stay for the financial reward.

suicide_circus

my father has a medical condition, told by GPs and consultants here that nothing could be done and he would "have to learn to live with it". He decided against this sage advice and now visits his homeland (continental europe) every few months where he receives a broad range of innovative treatments and therapies (for free and no waiting list) and has vastly improved his quality of life. if he had listened to medical professionals here, he would likely be in a wheelchair by now.

JuliusCaesar

Yes I have encountered amazing patronising attitudes from consultants, when I went to see them as a patient. Incredible arrogance and talking down to me.

One left me furious as she contradicted me about something in my own field, something I'm a bit of an expert on, and all but said 'there, there' to me.

One contradicted me and then later in the consultation said exactly what I had said at the beginning, leaving the medical student and myself to gawp at each other behind his back.

I saw 4 consultants about the one problem; one was great, the rest patronising. The great one was absolutely awesome, though, and very nearly made up for the other three.

Metal_Maiden

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Honestly I feel its partially to do with the ridiculous points it is in the leaving cert and the pressure that people going for high points feel the need to pick medicine. The result being a segment of them that are in medicine for the wrong reasons and ultimately don't really have much compassion or bed-side manners worth talking about.

There are some very good consultants out there who I couldn't fault. But like every other profession there are a good segment who would probably be happier doing other work but stay for the financial reward.

Yes I would say that has a lot to do with it. Becoming a doctor in this country has little to do with wanting to help people. Some of them do want to do that, but not enough.

I have vast experience of consultants in most fields.

Some, quite a few in fact, have a "god complex". There's no doubt about it. There are even some specialties which will have a higher number of these god complex folk.

Overall though, in my experience, most consultants who I have dealt with care very much about their patients.

Adamantium

The best doctors are scientists and oddly enough when you're dealing with something as existence ending as cancer or plethora other problems, there bedside manners while comforting won't get cut out the cancer. You can't "feel" aka "pray" it away.

"Your feelings while important, are also entirely irrelvant to what I have to do"

Note: I've been down this road from personal experience.

It's about right action, right solution.

ABC101

Unfortunately there are difficult and awkward people in every profession.

I was speaking to a consultant once... just a general chat about a certain medical condition... and I happened to mention one of the "great evils".. I was looking up research of medical conditions on the internet.

I then got a lecture on how the internet is "dangerous" and not recommended for understanding health conditions. He then said.. "no need to look up the www... that's why you have me"...

Of course booking a 10 minute appointment with same such consultant was 150 euro a go.... !!!!!

There are "habitually condescending" people everywhere... unfortunately.

If you are unhappy with your Doctor or consultant.. then change if you can.

vicwatson

Whatever about some consultants, some of their secretaries are right aholes altogether, jumped up madams, grrrrrr

ABC101

ABC101 wrote: »

Unfortunately there are difficult and awkward people in every profession.

I was speaking to a consultant once... just a general chat about a certain medical condition... and I happened to mention one of the "great evils".. I was looking up research of medical conditions on the internet.

I then got a lecture on how the internet is "dangerous" and not recommended for understanding health conditions. He then said.. "no need to look up the www... that's why you have me"...

Of course booking a 10 minute appointment with same such consultant was 150 euro a go.... !!!!!

There are "habitually condescending" people everywhere... unfortunately.

If you are unhappy with your Doctor or consultant.. then change if you can.

If you are researching conditions online. I would only use peer reviewed papers.

polydactyl

It's cause most of the genuinely caring ones became paediatricians

Adamantium wrote: »

The best doctors are scientists

I serious don't agree with this however. These docs are just the ones who realised how much they hated patients/ were dreadful with patients and went for the science aspect (again obv not all).... Unless by doctors you meant people with a PhD not medical docs

OP there is no excuse for rudeness at all. Yes some of them have a god complex but hopefully most are approaching retirement for all our sakes.

" what's the difference between God and a medical consultant? God doesn't think he is a medical consultant"

Lucas Castroman

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Honestly I feel its partially to do with the ridiculous points it is in the leaving cert and the pressure that people going for high points feel the need to pick medicine. The result being a segment of them that are in medicine for the wrong reasons and ultimately don't really have much compassion or bed-side manners worth talking about.

There are some very good consultants out there who I couldn't fault. But like every other profession there are a good segment who would probably be happier doing other work but stay for the financial reward.

Indeed, the correlation between getting high points in your leaving cert and being an asshole is well documented.
Stupid people are invariably lovely.

Lucas Castroman

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Yes I have encountered amazing patronising attitudes from consultants, when I went to see them as a patient. Incredible arrogance and talking down to me.

One left me incandescent with rage as she contradicted me about something in my own field, something I'm a bit of an expert on, and all but said 'there, there' to me.

One contradicted me and then later in the consultation said exactly what I had said at the beginning, leaving the medical student and myself to gawp at each other behind his back.

If you're such an expert on your own condition why do you feel the need to attend this doctor.
It's obvious from your post why he/she might be irritated by you.

Adamantium

ABC101 wrote: »

Unfortunately there are difficult and awkward people in every profession.

I was speaking to a consultant once... just a general chat about a certain medical condition... and I happened to mention one of the "great evils".. I was looking up research of medical conditions on the internet.

I then got a lecture on how the internet is "dangerous" and not recommended for understanding health conditions. He then said.. "no need to look up the www... that's why you have me"...

Of course booking a 10 minute appointment with same such consultant was 150 euro a go.... !!!!!

There are "habitually condescending" people everywhere... unfortunately.


If you are unhappy with your Doctor or consultant.. then change if you can.

I was recently in London with THE top headache specialist in the world. When you get to that high level in any field, you will find quirks, eccnetricities.

I too mentioned some "objective research", based on a condition I DID have and am convinced I still do, TMJ, I have had a 24/7 completely one sided headache, eye grit pain. Life ruining. Haven't had a clear thought in over 4 years, dropped out of college, personality altering, anyway ....This is a problem I've wrote about on boards.ie several times

He basically told me to avoid looking up "Dr Google" as it could lead to trouble, ironically enough it was my internet research that lead to me him in the 1st place

I then mentioned the extraordinary memory problems whereby I literally can not recall what I said seconds ago and remarked to me "that note paper is also useful to me when I forget"

The flippancy was astounding, I never wanted the ground to swallow me up more

As a 22 year old man, soon to be 23, who has his late teens completely destroyed since I was 18, pretty much crying everyday, fighting like a warrior to keep my head above water; I was close to throttling him

Total lack of self awareness!

Going out the door he remarked "Don't let your whole life pass you by"

Internally I was thinking:
Gee I don't know,Thanks for reminding me of the eternal truth of my life that I think about every second, you patronising ****, I am fighting and my life is passing me by"

Adamantium

polydactyl wrote: »

It's cause most of the genuinely caring ones became paediatricians



I serious don't agree with this however. These docs are just the ones who realised how much they hated patients/ were dreadful with patients and went for the science aspect (again obv not all).... Unless by doctors you meant people with a PhD not medical docs

OP there is no excuse for rudeness at all. Yes some of them have a god complex but hopefully most are approaching retirement for all our sakes.

" what's the difference between God and a medical consultant? God doesn't think he is a medical consultant"

I agree with your points and some days I switch my own views and views similar to your own. It leaves me very disillusioned.

ABC101

Lucas Castroman wrote: »

If you're such an expert on your own condition why do you feel the need to attend this doctor.
It's obvious from your post why he/she might be irritated by you.

That was not my understanding of what the poster mentioned...

"as she contradicted me about something in my own field, something I'm a bit of an expert on"

As the posters own field could have been in electronics or engineering and not the medical condition itself.

fits

I was seeing one for several appointments once and on the last one, he actually ranted at me for five minutes about his secretary, checked me for five second (not exaggerating) and charged me 120euro for the pleasure. I dont think Id stand for it now, but they're a very exalted profession in Ireland and get away with all sorts as a result. (like the priests and bankers)

Xeyn

fits wrote: »

I was seeing one for several appointments once and on the last one, he actually ranted at me for five minutes about his secretary, checked me for five second (not exaggerating) and charged me 120euro for the pleasure. I dont think Id stand for it now, but they're a very exalted profession in Ireland and get away with all sorts as a result. (like the priests and bankers)

How exactly do you equate consultants and the acts of sexual abuse and the crippling downturn in the economy?

Arbiter of Good Taste

Xeyn wrote: »

How exactly do you equate consultants and the acts of sexual abuse and the crippling downturn in the economy?

Same lazy strawman, different day. That's how

fits

Xeyn wrote: »

How exactly do you equate consultants and the acts of sexual abuse and the crippling downturn in the economy?

Too much power is not a good thing. Being able to perform your work without it being questioned or critiqued except by your peers (friends) is not a good thing. I'll add law to the list too.

Fr_Dougal

Sounds like Lupus.

MisterAnarchy

I think this clip hits the nail on the head about consultants

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlWvk5CUD5w

Bazzo

As somebody who has met many many many consultants and worked in the medical field, not as a doctor, I couldn't disagree more.

The vast majority of consultants I came across were intelligent, professional, and caring individuals. Occasionally there were some assholes, people that didn't have a great bedside manner, or people who were just useless at their job, but it was a relatively small amount. I doubt I could put up with some of the abuse/legal threats/etc that some of those people got off patients they were often trying their best to help.

Muise...

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Honestly I feel its partially to do with the ridiculous points it is in the leaving cert and the pressure that people going for high points feel the need to pick medicine. The result being a segment of them that are in medicine for the wrong reasons and ultimately don't really have much compassion or bed-side manners worth talking about.

There are some very good consultants out there who I couldn't fault. But like every other profession there are a good segment who would probably be happier doing other work but stay for the financial reward.

That's what nurses are for. Doctors do the intellectual, analytical stuff. Sometimes they overlap, but that's the general idea.

Lucas Castroman wrote: »

Indeed, the correlation between getting high points in your leaving cert and being an asshole is well documented.
Stupid people are invariably lovely.

Not sure if serious...

If not, I have snark-crush.

Dr conrad murray

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMUBoa0URlY

Red Nissan

You have a nearly unique syndrome, I can't comment at all.

Consultants in general are very arrogant and somewhat displeasing people, you WANT to fight them, you want to argue with them, but that is 'perhaps' part of their assessment.

I last argued with my cardiologist consultant and three weeks later had a triple heart bypass operation ~ so go figure.

From a month in hospital I now admire the guy immensely, he worked like 24 hours like a man possessed, I won't say robot, but he seemed to possess super human powers.

He is still an arrogant ass, though, I firmly believe that this is in fact part of the act.

Though, not always, as I suffered under another arrogant ass of a consltant, now dead, for my psoriasis, which, unlike my cardiologist [and surgical team saved my live physically], he was akin to the middle ages and leeches bleed everything cure-all and certainly unworthy of the title 'consultant'.

Nonoperational

I'd love if some of the people commenting here spent a week doing a consultants job and then posted their opinions on them. There are bad apples in every field but a big lot of them do a tough job well in ****ty conditions.


To be honest, for every one patient that has properly researched something and has a constructive input, there are 10 insisting they know it all when in reality they don't.