Consultants and doctors

goose2005

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Honestly I feel its partially to do with the ridiculous points it is in the leaving cert and the pressure that people going for high points feel the need to pick medicine. The result being a segment of them that are in medicine for the wrong reasons and ultimately don't really have much compassion or bed-side manners worth talking about.

There are some very good consultants out there who I couldn't fault. But like every other profession there are a good segment who would probably be happier doing other work but stay for the financial reward.

Most consultants probably qualified long before the points system.

dd972

suicide_circus wrote: »

my father has a medical condition, told by GPs and consultants here that nothing could be done and he would "have to learn to live with it". He decided against this sage advice and now visits his homeland (continental europe) every few months where he receives a broad range of innovative treatments and therapies (for free and no waiting list) and has vastly improved his quality of life. if he had listened to medical professionals here, he would likely be in a wheelchair by now.

Prime example of the Gombeen S**thouse who ends up in these types of positions in Ireland, and I bet you my bottom dollar that those 'experts' over here your father spoke to were either arrogant and aloof or full of hail-fellow-well-met hot air, Ireland does both of these types of people to the max, especially in the professions.

MS.ing

youre all morons, follow your own advice and die. or lose your leg or whatever it is your trying to avoid by having a doctor treat you in the first place.

cause its much better to be dead than wrong :pac:

davo10

There used to be a guy called Steve Jobs, bright guy, knew a bit about computers and gadgets, owned a fruit company or something. One of those Gombeen S***thouses told him he had early stage pancreatic cancer and that a fairly routine surgery was needed. Now Steve, being a bright guy thought he knew better, so like a previous poster wrote, he headed off to another country to have a new, exciting treatment that wasn't recommended in his own country. By the time he realised that the Doc with the God complex was right, it was to late, fruit company is still there but Stevie boy isn't.

MS.ing

davo10 wrote: »

There used to be a guy called Steve Jobs, bright guy, knew a bit about computers and gadgets, owned a fruit company or something. One of those Gombeen S***thouses told him he had early stage pancreatic cancer and that a fairly routine surgery was needed. Now Steve, being a bright guy thought he knew better, so like a previous poster wrote, he headed off to another country to have a new, exciting treatment that wasn't recommended in his own country. By the time he realised that the Doc with the God complex was right, it was to late, fruit company is still there but Stevie boy isn't.

feckin hippies

ABC101

davo10 wrote: »

There used to be a guy called Steve Jobs, bright guy, knew a bit about computers and gadgets, owned a fruit company or something. One of those Gombeen S***thouses told him he had early stage pancreatic cancer and that a fairly routine surgery was needed. Now Steve, being a bright guy thought he knew better, so like a previous poster wrote, he headed off to another country to have a new, exciting treatment that wasn't recommended in his own country. By the time he realised that the Doc with the God complex was right, it was to late, fruit company is still there but Stevie boy isn't.

I think it was the fact that Steve was not ready to be opened up at that time... and also his reality distortion field turned against him, thinking he could cure the cancer by going on a special diet etc etc.

On another occasion... Steve asked doctors not to pump his stomach... but they did so anyway.. and he got some item of food into his lung... and then developed pneumonia. He nearly died.. very touch and go at the time... but he recovered and lived for another 2 years.

MS.ing

ABC101 wrote: »

I think it was the fact that Steve was not ready to be opened up at that time... and also his reality distortion field turned against him, thinking he could cure the cancer by going on a special diet etc etc.

On another occasion... Steve asked doctors not to pump his stomach... but they did so anyway.. and he got some item of food into his lung... and then developed pneumonia. He nearly died.. very touch and go at the time... but he recovered and lived for another 2 years.

ill just leave this here

harvard-cancer-expert-steve-jobs-probably-doomed-himself-with-alternative-medicine

Metal_Maiden

Czarcasm wrote: »

Eddy it's the patients that think they're experts on their own illnesses that make everybody uncomfortable. The OP is a perfect example of this phenomenon. To tell a medical professional that they "really have no idea what my condition feels like", that's just arrogant, and to meet so many medical professionals that are so horrible, well, that's either incredibly unfortunate as to be odds on impossible, or far more likely that it's the attitude of the patient themselves that acts like a condescending know-it-all.

Czarcasm, I have nodded along to doctors many times even when I've known they were factually incorrect. As I said, most of them had never treated my condition before and didn't exactly know about it, if they'd even heard of it. They'd know or understand the basic principle (that underlying BP is too low and the heart goes very fast to compensate), and beyond that add their own ideas that were often directly contradictory from doc to doc. I have had my GP Google my fevers in front of me and take the word of web forums; she at least admitted she had no idea. I have only ever argued with consultants twice, when they were just too condescending and insulting on top of being ignorant. My specialist admitted me to hospital because I couldn't walk, and while I knew there wouldn't be much they could do for me long term, I didn't expect some consultant I'd never seen before in my life to come along and suggest that the problem with my 160 standing heart rate, temperatures and collapses was that I should be ignoring them and should see a psychiatrist. So yeah, I really had to tell him he had no idea what my condition was like. I'd like to see him ignore his vision breaking into little segments after a few steps before he finally passes out. Ludicrously dismissive thing to say, and I wonder if he would have said the same thing to someone other than a young woman.

Czarcasm

Metal_Maiden wrote: »

Ludicrously dismissive thing to say, and I wonder if he would have said the same thing to someone other than a young woman.

Metal_Maiden I'm not trying to undermine your experience at all, I just know that from my own perspective that what doctors don't know, we can help them understand. In my own case I have crippling arthritis caused by a condition that had it been caught at birth using a simple standard test, I wouldn't have arthritis now.

I have a click hip defect that basically wasn't detected as a baby, so I was limping for 22 years and people thought I was putting it on. My GP (who was actually brilliant in fairness) couldn't understand it, so sent me to an orthapaedic consultant, who I wasn't in the room with five minutes when he knew exactly what was wrong.

Another consultant in the Cappagh hospital had just come back from the States where he'd learned a procedure called a ganz osteotomy which would mean I wouldn't need a full hip replacement (well, that was the theory anyway as it was a relatively new procedure!). Turns out ten years later I still need a hip replacement. The consultant got it wrong, but he didn't have a crystal ball at the time either.

My own GP that I have now had only heard of a ganz osteotomy, but the consultant he sent me to wanted to hold off on a hip replacement because I was still too young at 36 he said. I told him I couldn't wait, so he had a team from Beaumont come down and do a consultation. In that 15 years I haven't met a single medical professional I could say was anything but exemplary in how they conducted themselves.

I'm also on medication for a heart scare I had a couple of years back, again, consultants were nothing shy of brilliant, and recently just before Christmas I developed uveitis in my right eye as a result of having arthritis, sent to an eye specialist and was told it may never come back, but if it does, there's a risk I might lose my eyesight. Well it came back, and it pains me like it brought it's mother with it. But there's not a whole pile they can do about it except put me on another course of eye drops, but that's merely delaying the inevitable.

Thing is though, I know they're doing their best, so I can't possibly fault them, they aren't magicians and they don't know it all, but I'd still put my faith in their expertise before I'd go scouring the internet and printing out voodoo treatments for all manner of ailments just so I could suggest I know better than they do. The simple fact is I really don't, and when I don't know something I have to trust that the medical profession are doing their best, because relying on Dr. Google just seems like a piss poor strategy at best.

ABC101

MS.ing wrote: »

ill just leave this here

harvard-cancer-expert-steve-jobs-probably-doomed-himself-with-alternative-medicine

I think you might have misunderstood my post...

When I wrote "the fact that Steve was not ready to be opened up at that time" I was referring to his mental, psychological disposition....not the fact that he had cancer and required surgery quickly.

Steve was a perfectionist...had a powerful ability to create a "reality distortion field".. which he used to empower other people or drive certain situations forward. Sometimes he destroyed people as well.

Unfortunately... this worked against him... and he should have taken the recommendation of the doctors and get onto a proper protein diet... but he did'nt.. and unfortunately paid a heavy price.

I suppose he was in denial... and did not want other hands inside his body cutting him up...

If you want a good read.. "Steve Jobs" by Walter Issacson is a good biography...I'm just coming to the end of it myself at the moment.

Artful_Badger

Its all in your head OP. Have you tried cracking open your head and looking for it ?

_Whimsical_

Hey OP . https://www.facebook.com/IrishDysautonomiaAwareness?fref=ts is a fb for dysautonomia awareness/sufferers in Ireland. You'd get a good idea of numbers there.

So sorry to hear you're going through this. I will PM you later once I get a chance. Also I couldn't agree more with you.

davo10

Metal_Maiden wrote: »

I didn't expect some consultant I'd never seen before in my life to come along and suggest that the problem with my 160 standing heart rate, temperatures and collapses was that I should be ignoring them and should see a psychiatrist.

According to google, these are all symptoms of acute anxiety disorder, now who would a consultant recommend you see to rule that condition out, hmmmm let me see, a psychiatrist perhaps?


http://m.helpguide.org/articles/anxiety/anxiety-types-symptoms

Pumpkinseeds

Patients with relatively uncommon chronic disease often have to do a lot of research on their own illness. Just because an illness falls under a particular consultants deemed area of expertise doesn't mean that the consultant will be an expert in it.

I have one of those diseases and over the years I've chatted with people all over the world with the same illness who have had to research it for the same reasons as I have, namely that our consultants have either never heard of it or have never actually seen a case of it, let alone a case that is in the most severe stage of the disease as ours is.

I've met some excellent consultants and then again I've had some absolutely horrific experiences with other consultants. I've had some consultants tell me that I know more about the disease than they do. If I hadn't done the research I've done I'd have been fobbed off years ago and left without treatment, as it is I'm on a waiting list to try the last treatment option on a very short list of treatment options open to me.

SpaceTime

I've experienced both extremes when it comes to consultants.

I went to an ENT surgeon a good few years ago (won't say where or when as I am not identifying him or her).
He or she was perfectly good at his job in terms of the technical expertise and did a good repair job on my ear which has worked out well but he was incredibly rude.

I'm quite technically savvy and I understand medical terminology and on a few occasions when I asked him or her what he was doing before he went ahead with something, he or she quite literally started humming and flatly ignored me.

He or she also cleaned debris from my ear canal which was actually really painful and I literally hardly bear it and they just got really ratty with me and made all sorts of sarcastic comments.

...

Then I had a situation where I went to a GP after having all this ear surgery (and I knew exactly what had been done and the precautions required afterwards) and she was insisting that she should syringe my ear which was 100% totally contraindicated - she then concluded that my mastoid bone was sore because she was pressing a scar REALLY hard with her fingers. When I explained about the syringing being a total no no, she got really condescending with me and told me that I shouldn't be reading so much on the internet. She also relayed to my parents (I was a teen at this stage) that I was a 'cheeky pup'.

On another occasion, I went to the same GP because my face was twitchy and I had a metallic taste in my mouth (both symptoms of facial nerve issues and this occurred right after surgery near my facial nerve) and she told me that I was suffering from pre-leaving cert stress and offered to prescribe meds! I changed GP immediately.

...

On the other side of it, my current ENT guy is one of the nicest guys you could meet. Great at what he does, very friendly, treats you like a person.

My current GP's also really personable and quite willing to discuss anything from a completely technical point of view and also quite willing to admit the limits of his own knowledge and go look stuff up / find out things.

I don't expect a doctor to know absolutely everything, I expect them to be able to find out though. That's why arrogance worries me. I'm a lot happier when I know someone's able to recognise when they don't know something and are willing to find out more.

Like any area of life, you get people who are good and bad at what they do for various reasons.

I'd always suggest with GPs anyway, shopping around! If you don't like your GP, change.

ABC101

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

Patients with relatively uncommon chronic disease often have to do a lot of research on their own illness. Just because an illness falls under a particular consultants deemed area of expertise doesn't mean that the consultant will be an expert in it.

I have one of those diseases and over the years I've chatted with people all over the world with the same illness who have had to research it for the same reasons as I have, namely that our consultants have either never heard of it or have never actually seen a case of it, let alone a case that is in the most severe stage of the disease as ours is.

I've met some excellent consultants and then again I've had some absolutely horrific experiences with other consultants. I've had some consultants tell me that I know more about the disease than they do. If I hadn't done the research I've done I'd have been fobbed off years ago and left without treatment, as it is I'm on a waiting list to try the last treatment option on a very short list of treatment options open to me.

And well done to you Pumkinseeds... that's pretty much sums it up.... one has to fight your own corner... do as much research as you can... sorting out the wheat from the chaff etc.. attempting to understand and eventually master the problem.

_Whimsical_

davo10 wrote: »

According to google, these are all symptoms of acute anxiety disorder, now who would a consultant recommend you see to rule that condition out, hmmmm let me see, a psychiatrist perhaps?


http://m.helpguide.org/articles/anxiety/anxiety-types-symptoms

The symptoms of a heart attack are quite similar to the symptoms of anxiety. So too can the symptoms of pretty much every illness be mimicked by severe anxiety. However if you had researched the OPs problem you'd realise her symptoms are posturally mediated and occur every time she stands up,possibly even sits up. They are objective findings,while the cause,treatment and prognosis are unsure the actual phenomonen that is POTS is clinically distinct from anxiety and has a recognised testing procedure for conclusive diagnosis.

davo10

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

The symptoms of a heart attack are quite similar to the symptoms of anxiety. So too can the symptoms of pretty much every illness be mimicked by severe anxiety. However if you had researched the OPs problem you'd realise her symptoms are posturally mediated and occur every time she stands up,possibly even sits up. They are objective findings,while the cause,treatment and prognosis are unsure the actual phenomonen that is POTS is clinically distinct from anxiety and has a recognised testing procedure for conclusive diagnosis.

I wasn't trying to diagnose her problem, I'm not a Doctor but I wouldn't criticise a Doctor for advising her to see a psychiatrist to rule out another cause of the symptoms. Did the OP diagnose herself?

Also by the way, a heart attack causes damage to the cardiac muscle cells, the by products can be picked up easily in a blood test so it's not the same signs and symptoms.

_Whimsical_

davo10 wrote: »

I wasn't trying to diagnose her problem, I'm not a Doctor but I wouldn't criticise a Doctor for advising her to see a psychiatrist to rule out another cause of the symptoms. Did the OP diagnose herself?

Also by the way, a heart attack causes damage to the cardiac muscle cells, the by products can be picked up easily in a blood test so it's not the same signs and symptoms.

You were saying that the OPs symptoms were identical to those of anxiety. I was just saying that the symptoms of many illness are easily mistaken for those of anxiety at a casual glance. I guess we agree on that.:)

POTS is diagnosed by a tilt table test usually performed by a cardiologist in a hospital setting. I'm sure that the OP has had this done to receive a positive diagnosis. However even after that and despite copious research on the subject in medical journals many doctors confronted with it for the first time respond with the catch all response for things they don't understand "I don't know what is going on so you must be the problem". It's unfortunate but it's true. Most people with rare or little known diseases experience it as some point.

davo10

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

You were saying that the OPs symptoms were identical to those of anxiety. I was just saying that the symptoms of many illness are easily mistaken for those of anxiety at a casual glance. I guess we agree on that.:)

Exactly, very often a diagnosis is arrived at by a process of discovery and elimination. The OP took offence at being told she should consult another specialist for an opinion to rule out psychiatric problems because Google told her she had POTS, go figure.

Lucas Castroman

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

I didn't say I was an expert on my condition, although I had read up the peer-reviewed papers on it - I was an expert on a related condition which is in my field. There is an overlap between medicine and psychophysiology (a field within psychology) you may be surprised to hear.

Oh dear, now I fully understand. You were boring him with your psycho-babble and he cut you off at the knees and quite rightly so. These are busy people and don't have time for waffle.

_Whimsical_

davo10 wrote: »

Exactly, very often a diagnosis is arrived at by a process of discovery and elimination. The OP took offence at being told she should consult another specialist for an opinion to rule out psychiatric problems because Google told her she had POTS, go figure.

She never said Google told her that she had it.

davo10

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

She never said Google told her that she had it.

I'm sorry, my mistake, I don't know if it was a Doctor, consultant or google who diagnosed OPs condition.

steddyeddy

Adamantium wrote: »

The best doctors are scientists and oddly enough when you're dealing with something as existence ending as cancer or plethora other problems, there bedside manners while comforting won't get cut out the cancer. You can't "feel" aka "pray" it away.

"Your feelings while important, are also entirely irrelvant to what I have to do"

Note: I've been down this road from personal experience.

It's about right action, right solution.

Well scientists are often doctors (ie have doctorates) but they would not necessarily make the best clinicians (how scientists refer to medical doctors). I think the difference between scientists and clinicians is that scientists follow this mantra:

“Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts,” Richard Feynman winner of the Nobel prize for his work on quantum electordynamics

Always question the experts. Always research yourself and never let anyone tell you otherwise.

Some scientists I know who work on certain diseases told me that the victims of that disease are some of the best experts.

Adamantium

steddyeddy wrote: »

Some scientists I know who work on certain diseases told me that the victims of that disease are some of the best experts.

Psychologists and Psychiatrists account for larger proportions of people who suffer from this phenomemon.

TeddyTedson

Basically I was referred to a consultant about 3 or 4 years ago and have been paying privately. This costs me €120 now for a 15 minute consultation! And that would be the max time I've ever seen him. I'd see him maybe 4 times a year but basically I think he's hopeless. Sometimes he's not listening to me and has asked such ridiculous questions that I can't gauge for him although that's what he takes down in his notes. It's not for anything mental and I've often thought that he's trying to keep me going as long as possible.
Can my GP only refer me to this particular consultant or what's the story with it?

Sir Arthur Daley

As price comparison same as my favourite club.

TeddyTedson

WikiHow wrote: »

As price comparison same as my favourite club.

huh?

Sir Arthur Daley

TeddyTedson wrote: »

huh?

I can cut €100 for 15 mins on a Friday night plus one glass of Champagne.

TeddyTedson

WikiHow wrote: »

I can cut €100 for 15 mins on a Friday night plus one glass of Champagne.

Oh you're a wrong un!

Sir Arthur Daley

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Oh you're a wrong un!

Not too many panes of glass left in your glass house?

Acedia.

You can research consultants yourself and ask your GP to refer you to whichever one you choose. That's what I do and my GP always facilitates me.

€120 for 15 minutes sounds fairly standard though.

kneemos

If you're paying cash you can take your pick I would have thought.Dunno if your GP or consultant does the referring

Sir Arthur Daley

What are you paying the consutlant for Ted? is it should i watch Fair City or Eastenders or should i wear make up or not? You need to provide us with more clear concise factual non imaginational information.

MadsL

WikiHow wrote: »

What are you paying the consutlant for Ted? is it should i watch Fair City or Eastenders or should i wear make up or not? You need to provide us with more clear concise factual non imaginational information.

Working on his AH addiction I expect...

mfergus

Acedia. wrote: »

You can research consultants yourself and ask your GP to refer you to whichever one you choose. That's what I do and my GP always facilitates me.

€120 for 15 minutes sounds fairly standard though.

How many consultants have you been to?

TeddyTedson

mfergus wrote: »

How many consultants have you been to?

Just one. My GP is excellent so I'm surprised about how useless this consultant is.
My main issue with him is what he's prescribing me. Basically he took me off medication which I found excellent and put me on another brand of a previous medication we'd agreed wasn't working.
It's annoying that I've been seeing him since 2009 now and spent a fortune but to be honest I don't think he has a clue what to do anymore from things he says. It's driving me mad to be honest.

WilyCoyote

Went to a consultant in a South Dublin seaside village (nudge nudge, wink wink) about 20 years ago for a shoulder injury. I think it was IP 40 for about 20 mins. He would operate ....... (I was paying cash) and the cost would be IP 3,700 excluding physio/physical therapy.
After I consulted another one (same price, different venue) he told me that the procedure was never 100% successful. On further questioning he said that 50:50 was about the result. Some days later I met a vet and greyhound owner in a pub in Tipperary. A good few pints later I was assured that this would right itself 100% in 18 months with some exercise. I followed his advice and, as a plasterer, I was once again working on piece work within that time.
Moral of the story? You tell me .......

TeddyTedson

WilyCoyote wrote: »

Went to a consultant in a South Dublin seaside village (nudge nudge, wink wink) about 20 years ago for a shoulder injury. I think it was IP 40 for about 20 mins. He would operate ....... (I was paying cash) and the cost would be IP 3,700 excluding physio/physical therapy.
After I consulted another one (same price, different venue) he told me that the procedure was never 100% successful. On further questioning he said that 50:50 was about the result. Some days later I met a vet and greyhound owner in a pub in Tipperary. A good few pints later I was assured that this would right itself 100% in 18 months with some exercise. I followed his advice and, as a plasterer, I was once again working on piece work within that time.
Moral of the story? You tell me .......

Go to the vet instead..?

WilyCoyote

No Ted, I didn't mean that. What I am saying is that other avenues are available ......... at least with my problem. But I could have shelled out for a complete fuck up as I've heard since of people coming out the worse side in these simple operations and not having the finances to sue.
The first guy never said that things could go wrong. I was under the impression that I pay my money and 12 weeks later would be flying at work.

Popescu

I do not have insurance and used the public hospitals whenever I need a consultant. I try to stay away from doctors and it is them that contact me for appointments.

Turtwig

They're like very expensive mechanics some will fix your car as best as possible others will, if you're lucky, change nothing and charge you a fortune.

TeddyTedson

It will actually be 5 years in November Jesus Christmas!

suicide_circus

yep paid 150 for 10 minute consultation yesterday

Banjo String

I'm with ye Ted.

I told my doc that I had a new strawberry shaped mole on my buttocks and he just gave me some cream for it.

corner of hells

Banjo String wrote: »

I'm with ye Ted.

I told my doc that I had a new strawberry shaped mole on my buttocks and he just gave me some cream for it.

Are you sure it was a mole ? If its the garden variety , cream won't work , you need a jack Russell and a shot gun.Or maybe bleach.

gramar

I've been to a couple of consultants and generally I've been disappointed by their apparent disinterest. A few years ago I had some really bad pains in my hip and went to a consultant. He barely looked at me and didn't even carry out a physical examination which amazed me but from his chair told me it was the sciatic nerve. It wasn't and needless to say I never returned.

I went to another who wasn't much better before finally to a third who did a proper physical examination, located the problem and gave me the unfortuantely bad news but who at least did his job properly.

All were experienced consultants in their respective specialisations.
It just goes to show the difference between their personal attitudes and medical opinions when presented with the same problem.

Gongoozler

Jesus Christmas! that made me laugh.

To the latest poster, who didn't have sciatica nerve thing and didn't go back, tell your doctor. They won't know they diagnosed you wrong if you don't tell them. And therefore can't learn.

Teddy, go to a different consultant, tell your gp you're not happy with him and ask for another consultant / referral. It's not more complicated than that.

gramar

Gongoozler wrote: »

Jesus Christmas! that made me laugh.

To the latest poster, who didn't have sciatica nerve thing and didn't go back, tell your doctor. They won't know they diagnosed you wrong if you don't tell them. And therefore can't learn.

Teddy, go to a different consultant, tell your gp you're not happy with him and ask for another consultant / referral. It's not more complicated than that.

I went to a consultant who didn't get up off his arse to do a physical examination, barely looked at me while speaking to me and generally gave the impression that he didn't give a toss. That was 7 or 8 years ago but I still remember it. It was a physical problem that a phycial examination would have uncovered.

It was a lazy diagnosis by a man with a lazy attitude.

kneemos

Banjo String wrote: »

I'm with ye Ted.

I told my doc that I had a new strawberry shaped mole on my buttocks and he just gave me some cream for it.

I'd keep an eye on the dispenser he's using.