Toilet trained dog decides his new toilet is the floor of the house.

Kimbot

Hi all,

I took in a German Shepard a few weeks ago, he was previously abandoned and the couple I got him from had him for 6+ months, nobody claimed him and they didnt have the space to really keep him so I said id take him. He started off great, really great character and was toilet trained and all. So the first week of his new home and everything was great, he listened to commands, got walked all the time and loved been cuddled.
So I went out on a Saturday morning but was home a few hours later and noticed he p*ssed in the house so I let him out and cleaned up his mess. He was let back into the house and all was well until the Sunday. While I was watching TV he decided to walk over to my computers, cocked his leg and p*ssed all over them and since then he has decided that the wooden floors in the house is his new place to go toilet no matter how much I give out to him.

When I bring him for a good long walk he will sniff about but will not go toilet, but when we get home hes goes straight out the back and goes no problem at all at which point I give him and treat and pet him and call him a good boy etc.

I have left paper/pads down but he just eats through it and goes toilet everywhere else. I have left him out the back for hours on end and as soon as he comes in he goes toilet everywhere, granted its not big pools but its still pee and he is cocking his leg to go each time.

Has anyone got suggestions or tips to help me with this fella please?

DBB

So, how long do you have him? Almost two weeks?
Barring a medical problem, it seems that your new dog is not actually house trained at all, or at least, not completely so.
If he's well-trained, there's every chance that his peeing is under command-control. You don't know what this command is, so the dog is not getting the expected cue that tells him it's okay to toilet here and now. Sheps can get very attached to a particular way of doing things, and if his peeing is under cue, there's every chance he became highly reliant on that cue.
It sounds like he never learned to actively discriminate between toileting outside, and toileting inside, and in fact it sounds like he is "reverse housetrained", whereby somebody, somewhere never actively brought him outside to toilet, but perhaps left him to his own devices by chucking him out the back. When owners do this, all too often the dog spends his time so worried about getting back inside, it over-rides his desire to pee. The relief of being let back in brings with it a renewed desire to pee, and the dog pees inside. If this happens a few times, the dog will very quickly get into the habit of holding on outside, and peeing inside: peeing is innately rewarding, so he may have learned a strong association between that rewarding feeling of relief, with being inside rather than out.
There's also a very real chance that as he peed during your absence, that there's an anxiety issue going on: he may not like being left alone, or he may have a history of having been punished on a previous owner's return if he had peed in their absence.
You also have to bear in mind that male dogs, especially unneutered ones (not sure which applies to your dog), will often mark in a new home, to make it smell like their own. What have you cleaned his pee up with? If it's bleach-based, then the ammonia will smell like another dog has over-marked his scent, prompting him to re-mark it.
There may also be an underlying health issue going on, which is difficult to spot, but causing him to pee outside of his learned constraints.
So, having eliminated the latter with your vet, it's back to basics with your dog. Regularly bring him outside, and wait for him to pee, perhaps trying a few commands in case he recognises one of them... "be clean", or "go pee" are common ones, but others here might suggest others they've heard.
Provide him with a post in the garden that has a mild bleach smell from it, it may prompt him to pee outside.
When he pees, coo quietly at him until he's finished: when he finishes, have a big party: treats, lengthy and enthusiastic praise, petting.
Then bring him back in.
Sheps are extremely quick to pick up on this sort of thing.
If you're cleaning up inside with any bleach-based products, stop. Use biological detergent in warm water instead.
Do not, ever give out to him. If you catch him in the act, by all means a sharp-ish "no", and bring him gently straight outside. But even if you catch him seconds after the act, it's too late to punish him... He will not make the connection. Furthermore, scolding increases anxiety, and anxious dogs are more likely to pee at times they "shouldn't".
Neutering often helps reduce or eliminate inappropriate scent-marking, if that's what this is all about.
Finally, try feeding him at the spots he's likely to pee, particularly if he tends to revisit the same spots. They often tend not to toilet near where they eat. Ditto for sleeping areas: put his bed near a likely spot.
Be vigilant, and don't let him build up a hugely full bladder especially if you're not going to be there to bring him outside.
There's a lot that could be wrong here op. It might be worth your while giving a properly qualified behaviourist a call to help you narrow down the cause of this.... This could possibly be done by phone alone and not necessitate a visit. But do go for a properly qualified behaviourist.

Kimbot

DBB, thanks for the info.

I have him 3/4 weeks now. Its only the last 2 that he has started this.
He is un-neutered but I will be getting that sorted out soon. I have been cleaning it with a floor cleaner and made sure the cleaner had no bleach in it.
By the sounds of it you could be right with the reverse trained and wanting to get back inside. He loves just been by my side and having company all the time.

He actually p*sses on his bed and then rubs it in with his paws (I have seen him do this 5-6 times so far) I have washed the duvet and as soon as it was dry he went on it straight away.

He is a big Shep so I was thinking that maybe it had to do with marking his teritory and or a dominance thing because as soon as I say "Bold" he has now started growling at me?

CrinkElite

I'd say this is pure anxiety over the recent move coupled with the upheaval he's experienced before that.

He's trying to get some permanence in your house and unfortunately pissing on things is the only way he knows how to do this.

I recently took my mothers dog for a month (also a recent stray in). He was grand for a few days but once he started seeing my place as his new home, he started urinating in the kitchen.

He often did this after his meals which led me to believe he was marking the place where he knew he'd be fed and looked after.

I know people on here will say I'm wrong but I'd suggest you continue give him a good bollocking if you catch him at it so he knows that it's not on. Feck him out the back door for ten minutes.

Anyway the mothers dog stopped doing it after a couple of weeks but started again briefly in her house when she took him back.
He's ok now.

Sorry to hear about your computer.

Nody

CrinkElite wrote: »

I know people on here will say I'm wrong but I'd suggest you continue give him a good bollocking if you catch him at it so he knows that it's not on. Feck him out the back door for ten minutes..

You might as well scream at him at random as it will do as much good and have the same effect.

CrinkElite

Nody wrote: »

You might as well scream at him at random as it will do as much good and have the same effect.

I disagree. He's a dog not a space alien.

borderlinemeath

CrinkElite wrote: »

I disagree. He's a dog not a space alien.

And if you knew how dogs thought processes worked then you would see that giving him a "good bollocking" after the act means absolutely nothing to a dog. They live in the moment, if you scold a dog for something he did 2 minutes ago, he will have no idea what you're giving out to him about. If you give out to him when he's in the act of going he will actively wait until your not looking and go to avoid getting given out to. Or go and do it where he can't be seen, like behind a couch.

OP, the growling is not the dog being dominant, he doesn't want to control the house. He's growling because he's uncomfortable and a bit scared so he's trying to tell you. He may have been given out to and possibly abused in a former home so the growl is his warning tactic to try and tell you to leave him alone. Whatever you do, don't try and force him into not growling, or to stop giving warning signals like that, you'll end up with a scared dog, too scared to warn, and may one day give you a bite because he didn't know what else to do and used the only tool left at his disposal.

CrinkElite

borderlinemeath wrote: »

And if you knew how dogs thought processes worked then you would see that giving him a "good bollocking" after the act means absolutely nothing to a dog.

pfff.. gimmie a break.

DBB

CrinkElite wrote: »

I disagree. He's a dog not a space alien.

He's a dog and therefore subject to the effects of learning and consequences. You go right ahead and "bollock" the dog for reasons he can't understand. Personally, I'll go with what the evidence-led training tells qualified trainers and behaviourists to do.

OP, it's not a dominance thing. Dogs don't do dominance hierarchies. I'm not rehashing it here, it's been posted about so many times before.
He's peeing on the bedding because you keep washing his scent off it. Let him lie on it under supervision, rub it all over him, let it smell like him. The more you write, the more it sounds like anxiety with this dog.
The fact that he's growling at you means you're making him uncomfortable and conflicted... He does not understand why you're chastising him.
At this stage, I'll bow out because there's wayyyy too much going on with your dog for it to be dealt with via a chat forum. I'll bow out with the strongest advice that you contact a qualified behaviourist. That way, you'll learn what's going on with your dog, you'll stop that growling, and you won't have to listen to half-arsed advice to keep "bollocking" your dog. Look where it's got you thus far... Your dog is now growling at you because of it.

borderlinemeath

CrinkElite wrote: »

pfff.. gimmie a break.

Lovely attitude, I think I'm right so a different opinion is only worthy of a throwaway retort. Again, you've shown just how little you know about dogs with your response. Your counter argument is to give him a 'bollocking':rolleyes:. Good luck with that when a dog finally has enough and bites you.

When he's being a dog. Not a space alien.

CrinkElite

Yeah sure. Quick call a qualified behaviourist.
He probably needs some rorschach test or maybe some prozac.

DBB

CrinkElite wrote: »

Yeah sure. Quick call a qualified behaviourist.
He probably needs some rorschach test or maybe some prozac.

CrinkElite,
I try to avoid moderating in threads I'm contributing to, but as there doesn't seem to be another mod about now to quench your flaming, I have to step in.
Do not post in this thread again.
To others, do not feed posters who flame.
Do not reply to this post on-thread.
Thanks,
DBB

Kimbot

Thanks for the responses.

Anxiety seems to be the problem. So how do you go about solving it?

Nody

jonny24ie wrote: »

Thanks for the responses.

Anxiety seems to be the problem. So how do you go about solving it

If you post your general area you'll get a list of recommended behavourists (better then googling as there are a lot of cowboys out there); another thing is to look at crate training or similar. The idea being he can get an area that he knows is "his" that he'll not get disturbed in under any circumstnaces as a safety corner to return to if things get to much and of course routine, routine, routine.

Kimbot

Nody wrote: »

If you post your general area you'll get a list of recommended behavourists (better then googling as there are a lot of cowboys out there); another thing is to look at crate training or similar. The idea being he can get an area that he knows is "his" that he'll not get disturbed in under any circumstnaces as a safety corner to return to if things get to much and of course routine, routine, routine.

Nody, im based in Lanesborough in Longford.

Any more info on this crate training?

CrinkElite

CrinkElite,
As you have ignored my request that you not post in this thread again, you have received a red card, as per the forum charter.
I have deleted yet another inflammatory post from you.
I can say it no clearer than I already have:
Do not post in this thread again.

Do not reply to this post on-thread.
Thanks,
DBB

DBB

Due to personal abuse by PMs in response to the above red card, CrinkElite has been banned from this forum for one month.
Thanks,
DBB