Disgruntled Garda Reserve member

WhiteWalls

Hi everybody,

I graduated from the Garda Reserve in February 2012. I done my hours all along, recently my sergeant told me that my probation was over and that he had to write a report on me. He said that I'm doing very well and everybody in the station is happy with me.

Like thousands more, I applied for the full time when it appeared. I was in the first 5000 for the first aptitude test but from my scoring in the last test I really can't see myself being called to the assessment center. I'm 25 now and am back at square one again as far as I can see. I have a pretty crap job which I have only been in as I was waiting to join the full time force. I'll be 29 when they recruit again. I'm sure there are plenty more in the same predicament as me. I find it very hard to ever step foot in my station again as I just don't see the point.

Is my experience as a reserve ever going to be recognized by the force? Would it be any good to me to join another police force, i.e, Australia?Should I just forget about AGS?

Thanks

D Trent

WhiteWalls wrote: »

Hi everybody,

I graduated from the Garda Reserve in February 2012. I done my hours all along, recently my sergeant told me that my probation was over and that he had to write a report on me. He said that I'm doing very well and everybody in the station is happy with me.

Like thousands more, I applied for the full time when it appeared. I was in the first 5000 for the first aptitude test but from my scoring in the last test I really can't see myself being called to the assessment center. I'm 25 now and am back at square one again as far as I can see. I have a pretty crap job which I have only been in as I was waiting to join the full time force. I'll be 29 when they recruit again. I'm sure there are plenty more in the same predicament as me. I find it very hard to ever step foot in my station again as I just don't see the point.

Is my experience as a reserve ever going to be recognized by the force? Would it be any good to me to join another police force, i.e, Australia?Should I just forget about AGS?

Thanks

I am not a GR but I can understand your frustration it's almost as if the Dept of Justice and Shatter has just been using you and your time.
I'm sure you have gained a lot from the reserve. I heard West Midlands police are recruiting now on England.
But I would say don't give up in this campaign.
I'm ranked 1063 and I'm optimistic of being called to stage 3 after the first 600

mycro89

D Trent wrote: »

I am not a GR but I can understand your frustration it's almost as if the Dept of Justice and Shatter has just been using you and your time.
I'm sure you have gained a lot from the reserve. I heard West Midlands police are recruiting now on England.
But I would say don't give up in this campaign.
I'm ranked 1063 and I'm optimistic of being called to stage 3 after the first 600

And bands 2 and 3??

Santa Cruz

WhiteWalls wrote: »

Hi everybody,

I graduated from the Garda Reserve in February 2012. I done my hours all along, recently my sergeant told me that my probation was over and that he had to write a report on me. He said that I'm doing very well and everybody in the station is happy with me.

Like thousands more, I applied for the full time when it appeared. I was in the first 5000 for the first aptitude test but from my scoring in the last test I really can't see myself being called to the assessment center. I'm 25 now and am back at square one again as far as I can see. I have a pretty crap job which I have only been in as I was waiting to join the full time force. I'll be 29 when they recruit again. I'm sure there are plenty more in the same predicament as me. I find it very hard to ever step foot in my station again as I just don't see the point.

Is my experience as a reserve ever going to be recognized by the force? Would it be any good to me to join another police force, i.e, Australia?Should I just forget about AGS?

Thanks

Did you actually think you should be exempt the aptitude test just because you are a Reserve. Your Reserve service, if you have positive reports, will stand to you at interview level but it would be very unfair on non Reserve applicants to allow Reserves a handy backdoor entry just because they are Reserves..

Leml123

WhiteWalls wrote: »

Hi everybody,

I graduated from the Garda Reserve in February 2012. I done my hours all along, recently my sergeant told me that my probation was over and that he had to write a report on me. He said that I'm doing very well and everybody in the station is happy with me.

Like thousands more, I applied for the full time when it appeared. I was in the first 5000 for the first aptitude test but from my scoring in the last test I really can't see myself being called to the assessment center. I'm 25 now and am back at square one again as far as I can see. I have a pretty crap job which I have only been in as I was waiting to join the full time force. I'll be 29 when they recruit again. I'm sure there are plenty more in the same predicament as me. I find it very hard to ever step foot in my station again as I just don't see the point.

Is my experience as a reserve ever going to be recognized by the force? Would it be any good to me to join another police force, i.e, Australia?Should I just forget about AGS?

Thanks

I'm the same as yourself, passed stage 2 but can't see myself being called, or at least in the next 2 years anyway.

One thing to remember, this campaign has attracted so many that haven't got a clue about the job, they will be more than likely be found out at interview stage and if they do get in they will be in for a big shock. I think these people will be the ones that will jump ship when something better comes along. You would want to be seriously committed to the job. The 23,000 a year and the low morale will push people out that don't really want it.

The garda reserve is going to fall apart now and it will make a laugh of the whole thing ever being set up, the money that has been wasted. Most reserves I know are asking themselves the same question, "whats the point now"

My advice is to forget about it for now, focus your attention on something else and if you ever get called forward you can make the decision then.

KERSPLAT!

This is a genuine question.

How do reserves think the recruitment process should have gone ahead with regards to reserve and standard applicants?

Leml123

I have no idea... maybe reserves bypass the aptitude tests and start at stage 3? Lets be honest those tests were just used to eliminate as many people as possible.

standtwo

It's been done well so far. Their are plenty of non-reserves who will make fantastic guards.

The reserves was never intended to be a fast track it was set up for people who wanted to help their communities. It can be great experience for people on whether the guards is for them.

msg11

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

This is a genuine question.

How do reserves think the recruitment process should have gone ahead with regards to reserve and standard applicants?

There should have been places laid down for Reserves, 150 for us Reserves and 150 for the public. Keeps everyone happy.

As I said before, two years service. Sergeant approves, keep folk happy no names mentioned sent for interview with super from another station if he is happy.

I would even go as far as to extent it too this;

1. Join Reserves and state your intention if it's too get into the full time. If so see step two.
2. Your appointed a full time member to over see your progress, each shift you do it will be this member. (This member will get an allowance for doing this, on top of the fact he is actively showing a good skill-set which they themselves could use in interviews)
3. Sergeant has to give approval if he deems you up too the full time service
4. Superintendent interviews you based on reports if successful you join the public applicants in the fitness stages.

All this over a minimum of two years.

Leml123

standtwo wrote: »

It's been done well so far. Their are plenty of non-reserves who will make fantastic guards.

The reserves was never intended to be a fast track it was set up for people who wanted to help their communities. It can be great experience for people on whether the guards is for them.

Far from well! There are also plenty of reserves and non-reserves who have failed the aptitude tests who will make fantastic guards.

Santa Cruz

The recruitment process wasn't made up on the back of a fag box and the aptitude tests are there for a purpose. If a Reserve fails the aptitude test after having a certain amount of experience being with full time Gardaí then maybe it reflects more on that particular Reserve than it does on the process.
Having a defined number of places set aside for Reserves would just open the recruitment process to abuse. Not everyone has the time to give or lives in a location where ready access to a Reserve position is available. I thought that Reserves were joining so as to serve the community not to get an easy passage through the recruitment process

Leml123

Yes the recruitment process was made up to get rid of as many people as possible. In previous campaigns there were 3 stages because the numbers applying weren't as high.

You could be a serving full time member with 30 years experience, be a great garda, be the commissioner and still fail those tests. The only thing they reflect is that you are good at doing aptitude tests.

Yes some reserves give their time because they want to help out in the community but the majority of people joined the reserve for the experience which would help them get into it full time. Also some people joined because of thr recruitment embargo. Over the last 5 years im glad I played a small part to AGS than no part at all.

Raider190

Leml123 wrote: »

Yes the recruitment process was made up to get rid of as many people as possible. In previous campaigns there were 3 stages because the numbers applying weren't as high.

You could be a serving full time member with 30 years experience, be a great garda, be the commissioner and still fail those tests. The only thing they reflect is that you are good at doing aptitude tests.

Yes some reserves give their time because they want to help out in the community but the majority of people joined the reserve for the experience which would help them get into it full time. Also some people joined because of thr recruitment embargo. Over the last 5 years im glad I played a small part to AGS than no part at all.

Well said

Santa Cruz

Leml123 wrote: »

Yes the recruitment process was made up to get rid of as many people as possible. In previous campaigns there were 3 stages because the numbers applying weren't as high.

You could be a serving full time member with 30 years experience, be a great garda, be the commissioner and still fail those tests. The only thing they reflect is that you are good at doing aptitude tests.

Yes some reserves give their time because they want to help out in the community but the majority of people joined the reserve for the experience which would help them get into it full time. Also some people joined because of thr recruitment embargo. Over the last 5 years im glad I played a small part to AGS than no part at all.

Use of aptitude tests are common practice across many occupations. They were designed not to get rid of applicants but to identify the most suitable. Blaming an inability to pass an aptitude test as an excuse for not being successful is a soft option. Those Reserves who have performed well will get the benefit of a good reference. Membership of the Reserves itself is not good enough grounds to be offered a full time position.

mycro89

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Use of aptitude tests are common practice across many occupations. They were designed not to get rid of applicants but to identify the most suitable. Blaming an inability to pass an aptitude test as an excuse for not being successful is a soft option. Those Reserves who have performed well will get the benefit of a good reference. Membership of the Reserves itself is not good enough grounds to be offered a full time position.

I don't think the poster stated that it should be membership, but more the performance as a reserve member that should be taken into consideration.

redout

I'd agree that the tests are biased in the sense that they favour persons who obviously have an aptitude for them. Thus eliminating many persons who would possibly make fine Gardai. That said, why should a reserve be given a bye though?

Take the British armed forces for example. Reserve members are not afforded a bye if they decide to apply for permanent services. They are made to undertake the same rigorous medical, fitness and aptitude testing as every other joe soap that applies and them lads can even be deployed to the likes of Afghan etc. even though they are reserves. Still doesn't afford them a bye into the regulars though.

Leml123

Explain to me how those aptitude tests were designed to find the most suitable candidates? As I've said above, give them to any serving member, they will prove nothing.

I never said being a reserve should grant automatic rights but they should have been given a head start from the beginning of the application process.

In England, for most police forces you need to have a certificate in police knowledge before you can apply. If you don't have this being a special constable will suffice. It makes sense.

Also I am still in the campaign. I passed stage 2 but I'm not in top 600. I believe that everyone who has passed stage 2 will get called forward.

Leml123

Its abit comical that we are debating the importance of the aptitude tests (verbal reasoning) yet there are some posters reading my posts and making their own assumptions.

Boaty

An very intelligent inspector, did the aptitude test and only got 25%.

Santa Cruz

Leml123 wrote: »

Explain to me how those aptitude tests were designed to find the most suitable candidates? As I've said above, give them to any serving member, they will prove nothing.

I never said being a reserve should grant automatic rights but they should have been given a head start from the beginning of the application process.

In England, for most police forces you need to have a certificate in police knowledge before you can apply. If you don't have this being a special constable will suffice. It makes sense.

Also I am still in the campaign. I passed stage 2 but I'm not in top 600. I believe that everyone who has passed stage 2 will get called forward.

"I never said being a reserve should grant automatic rights but they should have been given a head start from the beginning of the application process."


No automatic right but give them a head start???

mycro89

Leml123 wrote: »

Explain to me how those aptitude tests were designed to find the most suitable candidates? As I've said above, give them to any serving member, they will prove nothing.

I never said being a reserve should grant automatic rights but they should have been given a head start from the beginning of the application process.

In England, for most police forces you need to have a certificate in police knowledge before you can apply. If you don't have this being a special constable will suffice. It makes sense.

Also I am still in the campaign. I passed stage 2 but I'm not in top 600. I believe that everyone who has passed stage 2 will get called forward.

And those that passed stage 2 but left in limbo?

redout

Boaty wrote: »

An very intelligent inspector, did the aptitude test and only got 25%.

Intelligence can be measured many different ways.

Leml123

Automatic rights to me would mean a gr could walk straight through the garda college gates in the morning and bypass the whole application. I'm not saying that and I wouldn't agree with it.

What I am saying is they shouldn't have had to do irrelevant tests. They should have been given different steps in the campaign ie stage 3 should be stage one for gr.

After all it is only at this stage, stage 3, that candidates are starting to be assessed on actual garda matters ie report writing and job simulation.

Leml123

mycro89 wrote: »

And those that passed stage 2 but left in limbo?

Wait until we see what happens with the 600 going through to stage 3. Some will fail that even though they may think its going to be easy.

I think interview stage will throw alot of people.

mfergus

Boaty wrote: »

An very intelligent inspector, did the aptitude test and only got 25%.

Link?? Or some other sort of proof?

Raider190

mfergus wrote: »

Link?? Or some other sort of proof?

Why. ...Do you want a copy of his passport too jeeeeez

mfergus

Raider190 wrote: »

Why

To stop people making up "facts" off the top of their head like you do.

Raider190

mfergus wrote: »

To stop people making up "facts" off the top of their head like you do.

Ahh relax will you. All my facts are bang on .now go get your self beer

bort_license

The aptitude test where the only option to narrow the numbers of people going for the positions.

Of course, they're not an accurate solution for picking out people best suited for a career in the policing force. if your good at aptitude test, you'd of sailed your way to stage 3. As to my knowledge, this is the first of the Garda recruitment drives which has seen an extra 2 stages (1 and 2) added to the process. The current situation lies at 600 people being tested first for what I imagine to be 100-150 positions for the course in mid summer, the remainder at the end of the year (where I feel they'll dig into the 601<).
As of now, the process is a quite normal one where the interview still remains to be the hardest hurdle to jump before being accepted to the course. By no means does getting into stage 3 mean your half way there, rather it means your starting what has always been considered the first part of the recruitment process prior to this drive.

Good luck to all!

mfergus

Raider190 wrote: »

Ahh relax will you. All my facts are bang on .now go get your self beer

You asked a question and I answered it.

Raider190

mfergus wrote: »

You asked a question and I answered it.

No you decided to call me a liar. Now move on with the topic

Rothmans

msg11 wrote: »

There should have been places laid down for Reserves, 150 for us Reserves and 150 for the public. Keeps everyone happy.

It wouldn't keep genuine people who don't believe in mickey mouse policing too happy I would think.

Raider190

Rothmans wrote: »

It wouldn't keep genuine people who don't believe in mickey mouse policing too happy I would think.

Mickey Mouse policing ... Now that's a new one . Did it take long to think it up.

Rothmans

bort_license wrote: »

The aptitude test where the only option to narrow the numbers of people going for the positions.

Of course, they're not an accurate solution for picking out people best suited for a career in the policing force. if your good at aptitude test, you'd of sailed your way to stage 3. As to my knowledge, this is the first of the Garda recruitment drives which has seen an extra 2 stages (1 and 2) added to the process. The current situation lies at 600 people being tested first for what I imagine to be 100-150 positions for the course in mid summer, the remainder at the end of the year (where I feel they'll dig into the 601<).
As of now, the process is a quite normal one where the interview still remains to be the hardest hurdle to jump before being accepted to the course. By no means does getting into stage 3 mean your half way there, rather it means your starting what has always been considered the first part of the recruitment process prior to this drive.

Good luck to all!

Not the same thing. Usually 10000 + are at this stage, not 600.
It's clearly not the same thing

Rothmans

Raider190 wrote: »

Mickey Mouse policing ... Now that's a new one . Did it take long to think it up.

Not really.

I apologise, what most people would perceive as mickey mouse policing.

Not my opinion, of course.

bort_license

Rothmans wrote: »

Not the same thing. Usually 10000 + are at this stage, not 600.
It's clearly not the same thing

So, what you mean to tell me. 10,000+ where examined under supervision? Or maybe I picked you up wrong.

Rothmans

bort_license wrote: »

So, what you mean to tell me. 10,000+ where examined under supervision? Or maybe I picked you up wrong.

Yup.

That's how it used to be.

Leml123

Rothmans wrote: »

It wouldn't keep genuine people who don't believe in mickey mouse policing too happy I would think.

Be sure to mention that in your interview!!

carzony

It's a tough call for me to be honest.. I do believe that reserves should be rewarded for their service but then again that wouldn't be fair on the rest of us..

As I said before I really think people who do work for their community will do well in the interview anyway. Wether your a reserve garda, reserve army, order of malta, civil defence, football coach ect..

I mean I have been with the CD and have a good reference from the local mayor who works closely with local gardai.. That's just as good as a reserve reference as far as I'm concerned..

The fact that the reserve process is so long doesn't help either. It'll be interesting to see how many reserve stay active after all of this.

Malarkey101

I feel that where being a garda reserve would benefit applicants is the interview stage, when applying for the army you get a % added onto your interview score, the idea that you would be allowed to skip a stage which some people seem to be suggesting that they shouldn't have had to do 1 or 2 of the aptitude tests seems a bit mad to me. But that's just my thoughts on it!

Raider190

Malarkey101 wrote: »

I feel that where being a garda reserve would benefit applicants is the interview stage, when applying for the army you get a % added onto your interview score, the idea that you would be allowed to skip a stage which some people seem to be suggesting that they shouldn't have had to do 1 or 2 of the aptitude tests seems a bit mad to me. But that's just my thoughts on it!

No doubt the interview will be where previous experience will be most beneficial . It's similar for most interviews the ability to talk about the subject matter will impress the panel but the quality of the person and their commitment to pursue their career goals will be a factor also.

WhiteWalls

I believe any Reserve member who has done their 2 years probation and has gotten on well should get an interview. Its the least they deserve and I think any reasonable person would agree. To say that those aptitude tests pick out the right type of person is nonsense also and deep down everybody knows that

Santa Cruz

WhiteWalls wrote: »

I believe any Reserve member who has done their 2 years probation and has gotten on well should get an interview. Its the least they deserve and I think any reasonable person would agree. To say that those aptitude tests pick out the right type of person is nonsense also and deep down everybody knows that

The use of aptitude tests as a method to assist in the assessment of applications for employment has been in use worldwide for many years and by every type of profession. They are an assist in the process, nothing more or nothing less. The person who has good Reserve experience and a good reference from his/her supervisors will have that advantage when the interview stage comes. There has to be some credibility to the selection process and having everyone undertake the initial screening will help.

Alternatively you will have the old Irish nepotism act come in to play. A Garda's son/daughter gets in to the Reserve because of Daddy having a word in the right ear, then drifts along without doing too much damage, given the fools pardon because of Daddy, then gets a reference and interview because of Daddy and then before you know it they are ensconced below in Templemore and have taken the place of some good decent hardworking applicant.
And if you don't believe that this could happen you are not au fait with how Irish society operates.

DesertCreat_15

Having just missed being in the first 600 by a few places, I was quite disappointed to say the very least ! I have a Honours degree in a field of huge benefit to policing as well as thousands of volunteer hours clocked up with the CD and red cross (not to mention the various qualifications from doing so)

Although i'm not a reserve member, IMO they should be entitled to skip to at least stage 3 providing they have completed their two years probation, that's the least that AGS could have done for them!

The online aptitude test was merely introduced to cut numbers, it wouldn't have killed PAS to have a few hundred extra reserve members sit the paper test, in fact even having those reserves would cause the numbers to be similar to the numbers of people who sat the aptitude test in previous campaigns !

Santa Cruz

DesertCreat_15 wrote: »

Having just missed being in the first 600 by a few places, I was quite disappointed to say the very least ! I have a Honours degree in a field of huge benefit to policing as well as thousands of volunteer hours clocked up with the CD and red cross (not to mention the various qualifications from doing so)

Although i'm not a reserve member, IMO they should be entitled to skip to at least stage 3 providing they have completed their two years probation, that's the least that AGS could have done for them!

The online aptitude test was merely introduced to cut numbers, it wouldn't have killed PAS to have a few hundred extra reserve members sit the paper test, in fact even having those reserves would cause the numbers to be similar to the numbers of people who sat the aptitude test in previous campaigns !

Well you are still well in there but how can the system be protected against the use of nepotism even at the early stages because you can be sure it will be a factor in many people getting through to Templemore.

DesertCreat_15

Well that may be the case, not holding my breath to be honest ! Anyway...

I don't think that allowing reserves(whom are finished the probationary period) to progress to stage 3 is a form of nepotism but rather a form of recognition, after all, they still have to perform just as well as the others that have progressed thus far (in order to get to the stage where nepotism could play a part)

This kind of thing happens with the specials and PCSO's in the UK, no real reason it shouldn't happen here in fairness !

carebear_92

WhiteWalls wrote: »

,

I find it very hard to ever step foot in my station again as I just don't see the point.

The fact that you don't want to step foot in a station after not getting called shows that you were not a reservist out of love for the job but purely as an attempt get a handy pass through when recruitment came around. In a my opinion an ideal member of AGS should be determined and love their job. Without sounding harsh I think you've proven you don't have these qualities. I wanted to join when I left school but it was the first year of the recruitment freeze so I went to Uni and worked evening and weekend jobs. I quite simply didn't have time to be in the reserve so I think it's a bit unreasonably for reserves to expect a free pass.

Raider190

carebear_92 wrote: »

The fact that you don't want to step foot in a station after not getting called shows that you were not a reservist out of love for the job but purely as an attempt get a handy pass through when recruitment came around. In a my opinion an ideal member of AGS should be determined and love their job. Without sounding harsh I think you've proven you don't have these qualities. I wanted to join when I left school but it was the first year of the recruitment freeze so I went to Uni and worked evening and weekend jobs. I quite simply didn't have time to be in the reserve so I think it's a bit unreasonably for reserves to expect a free pass.

When you look at the minimum amount of time which is required by the reserve (208 hours per year) which equates to 21 days per year it has to be possible for those who are interested to find so little time.

standtwo

Raider190 wrote: »

When you look at the minimum amount of time which is required by the reserve (208 hours per year) which equates to 21 days per year it has to be possible for those who are interested to find so little time.

I don't think that's completely fair I mean for most people working a 5 day week they have 2 days off a week. If you have kids, collage or other commitments it can be very difficult to find time.

carebear_92

standtwo wrote: »

I don't think that's completely fair I mean for most people working a 5 day week they have 2 days off a week. If you have kids, collage or other commitments it can be very difficult to find time.

Well said! I'm in my final year of a 4 year degree which really does take work 9am to 5/6pm each day and then work 20 hours at the weekend. It's nearly comically to hear you say 21 days is not a lot of time if you really wanted it. That's all of a full-time workers annual leave and in fact I'd say you're hard pressed these days to find any sort of high pressure job that gives three weeks holiday? I do have genuine sympathy for reserves that didn't get through yet but it's quite annoying to see people say that they should have special places set aside for reserves.

WhiteWalls

I didn't expect a free pass or a handy pass through but the reality is that I'm not willing to wait around doing it for another 4 years until the next recruitment drive and then maybe get an interview. There is no incentive to be a Reserve at the moment.