Refused Apartment

subway

Valetta wrote: »

You have the option of refusing all four, without giving any reason.

that's true. but then you have no tenants.
its just a thought exercise, to initiate some self examination.

djimi

subway wrote: »

it was more to point out the fallacy in choosing (or not) someone based on that reason as it doesnt give you any info about them,

But there is no such thing as four identical candidates. Thats the point that Im making. Ultimately, when it comes down to it, one candidate will have something that you like, or to put it another way, the other will have something that you dont like/wont have something that you would like them to have. If you have to make a choice of this nature, its very hard to choose without having a reason why you didnt pick one of the unsuccessful candidates. It doesnt have to mean that you are a bigot because of it though.

When it comes to something like renting, its very hard not to draw on past experiences when choosing tenants. In this case, its entirely possible that the landlord has had some bad experiences when renting to single males in the past, and is now looking to rent to perhaps a young family instead in the hope of getting someone more stable. Not very fair for the OP perhaps who might be the ideal tenant, but understandable reasons nonetheless.

subway

don't worry, I can also copy and paste a definition of Bigotry from google too.
so, based on your definition above, how is an ad that says "professional couple only" bigoted? If the LL only intends to rent to a professional couple, why waste their time, and the time of other people looking to rent the flat, if they have no intention of getting it.

well, it is, thats my point. even its "accepted" and therefore goes un addressed.

gaius c

melekalikimaka wrote: »

i think you need to grow up and stop being petty, if you spent the time lamenting over this looking for another apt, you'd probably feel alot better about the whole thing and probably have found a place

I've always found that groveling and meek behaviour is the best way to achieve positive results with Irish landlords.

subway

djimi wrote: »

But there is no such thing as four identical candidates. Thats the point that Im making. ...its very hard to choose without having a reason why you didnt pick one of the unsuccessful candidates. It doesnt have to mean that you are a bigot because of it though.
.

(i dont like the type of post that picks apart response so i hope you dont feel i am selectively quoting you)

i 100% agree with the first part of your post. i also agree that it can be hard not to draw on past experiences. on that last line though, if you draw from past experiences that discriminate against entire sections of the population under a protected ground i am sorry to say that it is illegal discrimination.

MadsL

gaius c wrote: »

I've always found that groveling and meek behaviour is the best way to achieve positive results with Irish landlords.

Tug of the forelock to the fella in the Big House is it?

gaius c

MadsL wrote: »

Tug of the forelock to the fella in the Big House is it?

I try not to make eye contact either if I can avoid it. His piercing, superior, property-owning eyes only shame me and remind me that I must never question his ways, just be grateful that he deigned to address me at all.

djimi

subway wrote: »

(i dont like the type of post that picks apart response so i hope you dont feel i am selectively quoting you)

i 100% agree with the first part of your post. i also agree that it can be hard not to draw on past experiences. on that last line though, if you draw from past experiences that discriminate against entire sections of the population under a protected ground i am sorry to say that it is illegal discrimination.

So youre saying that if I have rented to three groups of 20 year old males in the past and all three groups have thrown wild parties 24/7 and basically trashed the place, that it would be seen as illegal discrimination for me to decide that Im not going to rent to groups of 20 year old males again?

You might be right by the letter of the law, but there is absolutely no way that anyone would ever be able to do anything about it, provided you werent so stupid as to tell them that the reason why they are being refused is because they are a 20 year old male.

You have to be realistic about this. Yo might not like it, and it might not be right, but it happens, and in situations like this (when it comes to renting) there is often a good reason why a landlord might decide that they will not be renting to a certain group of people again, and where their reasons are based on past bad experiences then its hard to argue with them.

dar100

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

I would go with the one who seemed the most sensible, with the most stable job. May well prove to be the oldest of the 4.

Of course I wouldn't tell the others the reason

What would you do?

Ageism to the collection:)

bladebrew

This discrimination happens in secret everywhere in Ireland I reckon, it was idiotic to actually text it to someone though!
I went to view a house with a landlord/agent (?) in Cork years ago and she said we could have people stay overnight if we wanted:) and not to have parties because the 3 girls next door had a party and she got called at 3am over the noise......." And they are accountants" I'm not joking, she is well known in Cork for saying silly things like that! But it was easier not to rent off her than complain,
She still pops up in the Cork city thread every now and again!



Edit: what djimi just said is basically what happened, we were asked would we be having parties! It was just an agent dumb enough to say it out loud that confined discrimination!

subway

djimi wrote: »

So youre saying that if I have rented to three groups of 20 year old males in the past and all three groups have thrown wild parties 24/7 and basically trashed the place, that it would be seen as illegal discrimination for me to decide that Im not going to rent to groups of 20 year old males again?

You might be right by the letter of the law, but there is absolutely no way that anyone would ever be able to do anything about it, provided you werent so stupid as to tell them that the reason why they are being refused is because they are a 20 year old male.

You have to be realistic about this. Yo might not like it, and it might not be right, but it happens, and in situations like this (when it comes to renting) there is often a good reason why a landlord might decide that they will not be renting to a certain group of people again, and where their reasons are based on past bad experiences then its hard to argue with them.

yes, i will tell you its discrimination.
ok, its on the lower end of things, but here is the OP, the very real victim of it.
take it to its logical conclusion if "everyone" does it. where does he live?
what if its your brother or son etc.

im not so much worried about his issue, which i doubt will manifest or be taken much furhter, but the fact that everyone is so "ok" with it, is kind of frightening to me. and moreso that its totally ok as long as you dont tell anyone.

the guy who wont rent to travellers for example. plenty of people are fine with that too it seems.

Grandpa Hassan

dar100 wrote: »

Ageism to the collection:)

No....again, you guys love putting words in peoples mouths then shouting 'bigot'.

I said the most sensible one with the best job. They would be my decision points. It might not be the oldest of them....might be the youngest. But probably will be the olders. But age is not what I will base my decision on.

Yourself and subway constantly don't answer the question as to how you would pick. Would you care to answer, using the example of the 4 single guys

subway

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

No....again, you guys love putting words in peoples mouths then shouting 'bigot'.

I said the most sensible one with the best job. They would be my decision points. It might not be the oldest of them....might be the youngest. But probably will be the olders. But age is not what I will base my decision on.

Yourself and subway constantly don't answer the question as to how you would pick. Would you care to answer, using the example of the 4 single guys

whoever is the most likely to pay / offers the most money / do they seem dodgy...
who has the best paying job / best reference from previous landlord.

the "4 single guys" was intended to encourage you to look past the surface. you jumped to "oldest" which i assume is just unfortunate (you are not really ageist also are you?) there is no "right" answer to this type of question, if you know what i mean.

i would look for the same things i would look for if they 4 different people. (capacity to pay, likelihood not to wreck the place)

dar100

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

No....again, you guys love putting words in peoples mouths then shouting 'bigot'.

I said the most sensible one with the best job. They would be my decision points. It might not be the oldest of them....might be the youngest. But probably will be the olders. But age is not what I will base my decision on.

Yourself and subway constantly don't answer the question as to how you would pick. Would you care to answer, using the example of the 4 single guys

Your post is one big contradiction, you clearly said it would be the oldest one

Grandpa Hassan

subway wrote: »

whoever is the most likely to pay / offers the most money / do they seem dodgy...
who has the best paying job / best reference from previous landlord.

the "4 single guys" was intended to encourage you to look past the surface. you jumped to "oldest" which i assume is just unfortunate (you are not really ageist also are you?) there is no "right" answer to this type of question, if you know what i mean.

i would look for the same things i would look for if they 4 different people. (capacity to pay, likelihood not to wreck the place)

I didn't jump to oldest. I said the best paying job and who appears to be the most stable character. (The comment on being the oldest was just an aside. They might or might not be.....though at what I think is the age profile of single guys renting they are more likely to be the older ones....but that its not the basis of the decision)

So.....to your criteria:

How do you decide which seem dodgy? bad clothes? Maybe they are less well off than you. Look like they'll be having parties?

As for the job: So you are going to discriminate against those that don't have as good a job? Obviously then you will be also discriminating against students.

"whoever offers the most money".....so you are inviting a bidding war and discrimiating against those less able to compete in this

There is discrimination all over your thought process. No less than the discrimination that you are slagging me off for having!!

Seems like you are discrimiating against those of a lower socio economic status ( which if I remember was in your definition of bigot!!)

You are a walking contradiction!!

Edit: if you truly stood by your equality arguments you would have said "toss a coin" or "draw straws"

delthedriver

OP, your issue is really with the letting agent.


You have raised valid points here, however do you want to waste your time
on this issue , when you could put this effort into securing another , perhaps even better apartment.


Life is too short to be getting hung up on what is a minor issue in the overall scheme of things.


Before viewing the next property , find our from the Letting Agent exactly what the Landlord's requirements are.


Alternatively try and meet the landlord with his Agent or try renting directly from a landlord.


Best wishes with your home hunting

liamo1979

How did he know you are single... Did you start jumping in the bed and acting like a kid when you viewed the apartment?

dar100

liamo1979 wrote: »

How did he know you are single... Did you start jumping in the bed and acting like a kid when you viewed the apartment?

Yes this is exactly what happened, because adult conversations don't happen at viewing's, kind of like some childish posters on Boards... I'm sure YOU know what I'm talking about.

liamo1979

dar100 wrote: »

Yes this is exactly what happened, because adult conversations don't happen at viewing's, kind of like some childish posters on Boards... I'm sure YOU know what I'm talking about.

So the conversation went... So hi, how are you.. so your interested in the place, are you in a relationship at the moment...

"no I'm single" that translates into - i'll be pulling the belly off myself in your apartment sir...

If your single your a bit of a looser to be fair :-D

The_Morrigan

dar100 wrote: »

Yes this is exactly what happened, because adult conversations don't happen at viewing's, kind of like some childish posters on Boards... I'm sure YOU know what I'm talking about.

Cut it out, there is no need for posts like this.


Gentle reminder to all posters, please remain civil and courteous while engaging with each other, there is no need for name calling, jibes or petty arguments.

dar100

liamo1979 wrote: »

So the conversation went... So hi, how are you.. so your interested in the place, are you in a relationship at the moment...

"no I'm single" that translates into - i'll be pulling the belly off myself in your apartment sir...

If your single your a bit of a looser to be fair :-D

I'd say been single is actually a intelligent move, for me, at this moment in time.

In fairness, I'd be pulling the belly off myself, regardless of the apartment:)

liamo1979

I'll be letting my apartment in Dublin in August. You mentioned you just moved out of home so I'm guessing you are in your 20's. I'll be looking for a couple because I know they have a better chance of paying the rent at the end of the month then a young single lad on his own. At your next viewing you should bring a lady friend along and pretend you are in a relationship... you don't need to kiss her, just hold her hand and you should be fine

ShaShaBear

How many bedrooms in the apartment OP?

Is is possible they meant "single" as in the singular term - AKA "Sorry, there's two bedrooms, I'm not willing to rent it to one bloke, I'd need two?"

Just a suggestion.

Mrs OBumble

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Its my house. I want to have the least risk of it being trashed. Therefore professional couples only. You see that in plenty of ads!!

So you'd prefer a professional couple (of 20-something party-every-weekend) types to a single female professional (40-something, owns a property elsewhere so knows both sides of the story, stopped here to work, at "experienced professional" salary level)?

Really?

I met someone like that when I was the latter person apartment hunting, was slightly bemused by such the attitidue. Decided I was better off without such a dumb LL. And his apartment was a kip, too.

Dr Turk Turkelton

dar100 wrote: »

Yes this is exactly what happened, because adult conversations don't happen at viewing's, kind of like some childish posters on Boards... I'm sure YOU know what I'm talking about.

Maybe you didn't come across well in the "adult" conversation so he tried to let you down as easily as he could?

bumper234

Op should post a link to this apartment, would be interesting to see if the ad states professional couples only or something along that line.

johnnyskeleton

liamo1979 wrote: »

I'll be letting my apartment in Dublin in August. You mentioned you just moved out of home so I'm guessing you are in your 20's. I'll be looking for a couple because I know they have a better chance of paying the rent at the end of the month then a young single lad on his own. At your next viewing you should bring a lady friend along and pretend you are in a relationship... you don't need to kiss her, just hold her hand and you should be fine

Should someone really have to drag along a fake girlfriend to secure a tenancy at the moment? I knew the rental market was bad but this seems beyond the pale.

What happens when the tenancy is offered and the landlord wants both people to sign the lease?

Grandpa Hassan

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So you'd prefer a professional couple (of 20-something party-every-weekend) types to a single female professional (40-something, owns a property elsewhere so knows both sides of the story, stopped here to work, at "experienced professional" salary level)?

Really?

I met someone like that when I was the latter person apartment hunting, was slightly bemused by such the attitidue. Decided I was better off without such a dumb LL. And his apartment was a kip, too.

No, definitely not....a single professional female sounds perfect. If you know such a person, point them my way!! It was comparative....between a professional couple or a 20 year old single guy. Ans not the party all weekend 22 year old professional couple

Waking-Dreams

It’s pure prejudice that a ‘single man’ would be refused an apartment on just those grounds. Just think about for a second: a single man could be anyone. A single man who is a dentist, a garda, an accountant… whatever really.

Instead, people think a single fella will be getting up to high jinx (based on a stereotype) and forget that plenty of couples engage in tomfoolery as well. There seems to be disagreement in the thread over the legality of it (around whether they’re exempt or not) but pursue the matter and see what comes of the whole thing. You fill in a few papers and wait for your case to be called. Hardly something that will distract you from putting your energy into finding another place. Good luck.

athtrasna

Surely the bottom line is it's the landlord's apartment and given the demand for rented property the landlord has their pick of tenant. The landlord can use whatever criteria they want to choose the tenant, they can draw lots if they want. All any prospective tenant should be told either "yes we would like to rent to you" or "sorry, the landlord has chosen to offer the apartment to another tenant". End of. It's the idiotic agent who messed up here but the bottom line is the landlord chose someone else to rent their property to. End of.

This is like some of the threads that have cropped up in Consumer Issues lately...people seeking compensation/action over something and nothing.

Sorry OP, better luck next time. Instead of spending time and energy getting annoyed about a text, get back out there and keep looking. Good luck!