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Please HELP air source heat pump

  • 19-03-2014 9:18pm
    #1
    Hazel O Lezah
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭


    I am looking to talk to someone who has an air source heat pump in their house. We have to decide on our heating system in the next week and my head is totally fried! We have 2 choices which are air source heat pump and heat recovery ventilation or solar panels oil with condensed boiler and stove with back boiler. Contractor is going to price both for us but we want the most efficient system.

    Basically I am wondering how do you find the heat pump with UFH. I am a cold person and love to switch on oil or a radiator if I need to but I know I wont have this with heat pump. We will be insulating very well so really the house shouldn't be cold. If anyone can give advice or info on this I would be truly grateful.

    Thanks


Comments

  • #2
    murphaph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    I don't have an air source heat pump but friends of ours do (they have exactly your proposed setup: air/water heat pump, ventilation with heat recovery and UFH) and their place is really comfortable even here in Berlin where it gets much colder than Ireland. Extremely important with this setup is that your place is not only very well insulated but also that it's airtight. we're going to build this time next year and we'll be installing the same system except with geothermal sourced heat pump. With both of the builders we're considering they include a blower door test as part of the price of installing the ventilation system, so important air tightness is to the proper functioning of such a system.


  • #3
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,809 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    Hazel O Lezah wrote: »
    I am looking to talk to someone who has an air source heat pump in their house. We have to decide on our heating system in the next week and my head is totally fried! We have 2 choices which are air source heat pump and heat recovery ventilation or solar panels oil with condensed boiler and stove with back boiler. Contractor is going to price both for us but we want the most efficient system.

    Basically I am wondering how do you find the heat pump with UFH. I am a cold person and love to switch on oil or a radiator if I need to but I know I wont have this with heat pump. We will be insulating very well so really the house shouldn't be cold. If anyone can give advice or info on this I would be truly grateful.

    Thanks

    It depends on what your building is made of and the airtightness of it. There is no simple answer - it depends on the heat load of your house and the quality of it. U-value, airtightness, roof type, GF buildup etc - these are but some basic inputs before you'll get a proper answer, really. 'Insulating really well' really isn't enough info tbh - I mean, compared to what ??

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #4
    froshtyv
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 225 ✭✭froshtyv


    Hazel O Lezah wrote: »
    I am looking to talk to someone who has an air source heat pump in their house. We have to decide on our heating system in the next week and my head is totally fried! We have 2 choices which are air source heat pump and heat recovery ventilation or solar panels oil with condensed boiler and stove with back boiler. Contractor is going to price both for us but we want the most efficient system.

    Basically I am wondering how do you find the heat pump with UFH. I am a cold person and love to switch on oil or a radiator if I need to but I know I wont have this with heat pump. We will be insulating very well so really the house shouldn't be cold. If anyone can give advice or info on this I would be truly grateful.

    Thanks

    Are you sure you will meet compliance with an oil boiler? When did you get planning permission for your house?

    Are you going with UFH with both systems?

    A low temperature air-to-water heat pump works in tandem with UFH due to the flow temperature of the unit. No need for mixing valves etc.

    The level of comfort with UFH isnt comparable to a radiator system.

    If you are a cold person, and prefer your rooms hot, you will pay for this weather its on oil fired system or a heat pump.


  • #5
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    murphaph wrote: »
    ..... Berlin ..... we're going to build this time next year ........With both of the builders we're considering they include a blower door test as part of the price of installing the ventilation system, so important air tightness is to the proper functioning of such a system.
    what calculations did your architect give to the builders to help them understand the mvhr and heat pump requirements/sizing? thanks


  • #6
    murphaph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    BryanF wrote: »
    what calculations did your architect give to the builders to help them understand the mvhr and heat pump requirements/sizing? thanks
    Hi Bryan. We haven't got an architect yet. We're going the prefab route so the architect works for the company that manufactures the house in the factory.


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  • #7
    JD6910
    Registered Users Posts: 227 ✭✭JD6910


    if going oil - use rads.

    my advice is simple and stated many times:

    insulate and airtight the house completely. no shortcuts.
    then pop in a simple tried and tested boiler, rads and solar panels. easy to maintain, turn off and on when needed.
    pop in a real good wood burner.

    you wont use much oil or gas if the house is super insulated and airtight so rising prices will have little impact on you.
    keep your heat demand to an absolute minimium and go with a simple tired and tested system.
    you could play it double safe and future proof for air to water now - but i doubt you will need it in your super insulated airtight house!!!


  • #8
    murphaph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Whatever about the energy source, oil or heat pump (and I agree that a well insulated airtight house in Ireland is as well off with a fossil fuel heat source because there's no feed in tariff to encourage PV which makes a heat pump a lot more attractive in other countries) I don't think rads belong in any new build when you compare the comfort levels of rads against UFH and the fact that rads place limitations on where you can put furniture. If skipping the UFH I definitely wouldn't leave it out in a bathroom in a new build in this day and age.


  • #9
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,809 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    murphaph wrote: »
    Hi Bryan. We haven't got an architect yet. We're going the prefab route so the architect works for the company that manufactures the house in the factory.

    ....no architect - yet ??.....so who's doing the planning, BER, and all the new regs legwork and sign-off's : are you telling me the prefab company is doing all this ???

    ...something amiss here methinks....either that or I'm picking it up wrong.

    I'm in the 'prefab' business and wouldn't dream of taking on the design job. It's enough work to execute what others come up with besides taking on all that as well: and for how much extra as well.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #10
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    galwaytt wrote: »
    ....no architect - yet ??.....so who's doing the planning, BER, and all the new regs legwork and sign-off's : are you telling me the prefab company is doing all this ???

    ...something amiss here methinks....either that or I'm picking it up wrong.

    I'm in the 'prefab' business and wouldn't dream of taking on the design job. It's enough work to execute what others come up with besides taking on all that as well: and for how much extra as well.

    Berlin, German, different rules apply.


  • #11
    murphaph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    ^^ Yep, we're building in Brandenburg, just outside Berlin.


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  • #12
    JD6910
    Registered Users Posts: 227 ✭✭JD6910


    murphaph wrote: »
    Whatever about the energy source, oil or heat pump (and I agree that a well insulated airtight house in Ireland is as well off with a fossil fuel heat source because there's no feed in tariff to encourage PV which makes a heat pump a lot more attractive in other countries) I don't think rads belong in any new build when you compare the comfort levels of rads against UFH and the fact that rads place limitations on where you can put furniture. If skipping the UFH I definitely wouldn't leave it out in a bathroom in a new build in this day and age.

    there is no doubt underfloor has its advantages, but i would argue that rads have an advantage also. in my super insulated airtight house i find that it retains the heat very very well. we often just pop on the boiler for an hour if we feel a little chilly. the rads react instantly. underfloor would not allow this immediate reaction. i would argue that in a super insulated house rads are better to give that instance reaction.


  • #13
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,809 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    BryanF wrote: »
    Berlin, German, different rules apply.

    Ah. Missed that - Cheers :)

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #14
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,809 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    JD6910 wrote: »
    there is no doubt underfloor has its advantages, but i would argue that rads have an advantage also. in my super insulated airtight house i find that it retains the heat very very well. we often just pop on the boiler for an hour if we feel a little chilly. the rads react instantly. underfloor would not allow this immediate reaction. i would argue that in a super insulated house rads are better to give that instance reaction.

    ... That's certainly true if you stick to the convention of heavy screeds with UFH.

    However a modern build can have a faster reacting floor that modulates better with thinner screeds or even better : no screed. It's the screed that's the cause of lag, not UFH itself.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #15
    JD6910
    Registered Users Posts: 227 ✭✭JD6910


    galwaytt wrote: »
    ... That's certainly true if you stick to the convention of heavy screeds with UFH.

    However a modern build can have a faster reacting floor that modulates better with thinner screeds or even better : no screed. It's the screed that's the cause of lag, not UFH itself.

    so yep - super insulate, airtight and keep the heat demand to a minimum. then use a simple heating system that gives the most flexibility in accordance with how you live. cant see the benefit in the heating on while your at work all day. pop on your boiler as and when you need it - which wont be often in the super insulated airtight house!!


  • #16
    murphaph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    JD6910 wrote: »
    so yep - super insulate, airtight and keep the heat demand to a minimum. then use a simple heating system that gives the most flexibility in accordance with how you live. cant see the benefit in the heating on while your at work all day. pop on your boiler as and when you need it - which wont be often in the super insulated airtight house!!
    Indeed, different strokes for different folks. There is no one size fits all solution really. I like UFH and the warmth under my feet and you like a really fast responding system using rads. So long as it's all put together with quality materials by someone who knows what they're doing it's all good :)


  • #17
    harpsman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,619 ✭✭✭harpsman


    Hi.
    Im renovating an end terrace house in Dublin-builder recommending Air Source Heat Pump. The house will be fairly well insulated, double glazing etc, but Im not sure how airtight it will be.

    Does anyone have an opinion on ASHP for this kind of job?


  • #18
    DeeJunFan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 110 ✭✭DeeJunFan


    harpsman wrote: »
    Hi.
    Im renovating an end terrace house in Dublin-builder recommending Air Source Heat Pump. The house will be fairly well insulated, double glazing etc, but Im not sure how airtight it will be.

    Does anyone have an opinion on ASHP for this kind of job?

    Will you have underfloor heating?

    how much insulation will you have in the floor/walls/roof etc


  • #19
    harpsman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,619 ✭✭✭harpsman


    DeeJunFan wrote: »
    Will you have underfloor heating?

    how much insulation will you have in the floor/walls/roof etc
    Will come back w answers to those?


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