The Centre RTE March 24th

AnonoBoy

jane82 wrote: »

No Itd be like having cancer and not caring but turning up in a and e with a cold.

Oh dear. You're really outdoing yourself on the nonsense front today.

So in your esteemed view then who is allowed to protest or complain in this country?

Your comments really suggest a straight, white, settled person who's never seen a day of hardship in their life to be honest.

Saying "Sure gays are locked up in Uganda, what's your problem?" is just pure nonsense and to be honest with that level of sophisticated argument going on you sound like the target audience for this show.

jane82

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Oh dear. You're really outdoing yourself on the nonsense front today.

Hear me out the cancer is the treatment of gays all over the world. The cold is the portrayal of a transgender person on a little show in Ireland. What are they looking to be treated. I havnt heard of one march when this ugandan law was passed. Id have marched in it. I actually started a thread on it.
But low and behold a fictional transgender lady gets slagged and the pickets are made.

AnonoBoy

jane82 wrote: »

Hear me out the cancer is the treatment of gays all over the world. The cold is the portrayal of a transgender person on a little show in Ireland. What are they looking to be treated. I havnt heard of one march when this ugandan law was passed. Id have marched in it. I actually started a thread on it.
But low and behold a fictional transgender lady gets slagged and the pickets are made.

So people in Dublin should ignore all ills in our society and instead concentrate on Uganda, a country where they have no influence or presence?

You're a woman right? Have you ever protested about anything? If so why did you bother when women in Somalia are having their genitals mutilated on a daily basis?

That's silly isn't it? Me saying that.

But that's the essential gist of your argument.

Elmo

AnonoBoy wrote: »

But that's the essential gist of your argument.

People are tried of the same old arguments. e.g. #Notanaprilfool Women are less likely to come of the live register then men. Though there are more men on the live register.

Annasopra

Elmo wrote: »

People are tried of the same old arguments. e.g. #Notanaprilfool Women are less likely to come of the live register then men. Though there are more men on the live register.

What?

Annasopra

AnonoBoy wrote: »

So people in Dublin should ignore all ills in our society and instead concentrate on Uganda, a country where they have no influence or presence?

You're a woman right? Have you ever protested about anything? If so why did you bother when women in Somalia are having their genitals mutilated on a daily basis?

That's silly isn't it? Me saying that.

But that's the essential gist of your argument.

Exactly - such a non argument

Basically lgbt people should never protest in Ireland because of Uganda.

Elmo

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

What?

I am not agree but there are a lot of bandwagons happening and many people just want to get on with there lives. I think people have the right to complain and the right to protest. There are a lot of lobby groups continuously trying to push there agendas on people. Things that lots of people aren't all that bothered about.

I think the protest outside RTÉ was a bit much, it could have been done through complaints. Not a fan of the complaints process, largely because when RTÉ do defend this show, the complaint will be passed on to the BAI. Who will then pass it back to RTÉ, BAI will decide if the agree with RTÉ and if the don't the pass it on to another group in the BAI who will rule on the representation of Transgender people on The Centre in six months time, long after most people have forgotten about a crap show.

AFAIK the BAI provided money towards the programme :rolleyes:

jane82

No Im not a woman. I marched for something in college so long ago Im not 100 per cent sure what it was. I just wanted to see what was going on.
If I was going to set up a march/protest Id do it for an important reason not for something trivial.
If gay people protested all over the world for economic sanctions on Uganda until they overturned this law it could make a difference. What difference will picketing rte make?
Ill tell you what difference.
Free advertising.
This thread title is now on the main screen of boards all day. People flicking channels later that see it will say "oh theres that show I heard about on boards Ill give it a try".
It will make the people who protested feel like they had a good day out sticking it to the man.
It will make me the average joe say "alot of gay people love complaining about trivial things and dont care about the bigger picture"

Elmo

jane82 wrote: »

No Im not a woman.

I'm a lady :pac:

Annasopra

jane82 wrote: »

No Im not a woman. I marched for something in college so long ago Im not 100 per cent sure what it was. I just wanted to see what was going on.
If I was going to set up a march/protest Id do it for an important reason not for something trivial.
If gay people protested all over the world for economic sanctions on Uganda until they overturned this law it could make a difference. What difference will picketing rte make?
Ill tell you what difference.
Free advertising.
This thread title is now on the main screen of boards all day. People flicking channels later that see it will say "oh theres that show I heard about on boards Ill give it a try".
It will make the people who protested feel like they had a good day out sticking it to the man.
It will make me the average joe say "alot of gay people love complaining about trivial things and dont care about the bigger picture"

For YOU it's completely trivial. For trans people it's not trivial. It's having their identity made a mockery of. It's treating their life as a joke, an object of ridicule.

Perhaps as a cisgender person you just don't understand how trans people would get so upset and angry and offended and depressed at having their lives on display in order to be mocked with cheap nasty unfunny jokes.

This show isnt even funny.

jane82

I think its funny. Where do you draw the line at whats ok to make fun of?
Ever see south park?

humanji

South Park is satire.

You can make fun of anything you want, but common sense should tell you when it's appropriate and when it isn't.

AnonoBoy

jane82 wrote: »

I think its funny. Where do you draw the line at whats ok to make fun of?

It's not the what, it's the how that's important.

Ever see south park?

South Park is normally very smart. It'll encourage you to laugh as they mock a group and then spin the whole thing on its head and chide you for laughing at them.

Take the Mormon episode for example. They spend the whole episode mocking the Mormon religion and then in the end they stick up their fingers at Stan and the audience and say, "it's only religion, f*ck you for not being able to see past it."

They're actually making points so I would class it as satire.

I haven't watched The Centre. What points do you think the writers are making with their jokes, or are they just mocking people?

I think writers should be able to stand over their jokes and not just say, "Ah sure it's only messing, who are we allowed to make fun of any more? Blah blah PC rubbish etc. etc." That's just avoiding the issue.

jane82

humanji wrote: »

South Park is satire.

You can make fun of anything you want, but common sense should tell you when it's appropriate and when it isn't.

Mrs garrison from south park. Get a sex change because he is not gay he is a woman. Becomes a lesbian. Then changes back to a gay man. He has issues about his father not molesting him. He has sex with everybody that ll do it. He is narky and short tempered with children and spends class time banging on about his life.
This is an okay way to portray transexuals because it is satire?

I would say the centre makes a decent go at nailing the transgender person that lives local to me. It also hits the nail on the head with the my big fat gypsy wedding portrayal of travellers.
Does that mean I find it satirical?

Links234

jane82 wrote: »

Would it be funny if they had a transgender woman who was womanly looking and acted like a lady at all times and nobody could make fun of?

So you're saying an actual human being would be hard to make fun of? Doesn't that just go to show that the character exists solely to be a figure of ridicule? It kinda underpins the problem transgender people have with the show. That's like saying, well would it be funny if they cast an actual asian person instead of Mickey Rooney in Breakfast At Tiffany's?

Trans people are a pretty small minority in Ireland, and are very much maligned. Rory O'Neill made an extremely good point before, where it's harder to be mean to gay people today because these days, mostly everyone will know someone who's gay, a relative or a friend, and plenty of gay people in the media they can see, but for trans people, that's just not the case. A show like this doesn't exist in a vacuum, people have no other frame of reference when presented with these kind of stereotypes. It's a problem when audiences only see transgender people like this, or when people open a newspaper and see things like this, it's a problem if people's default image for a transgender woman is Ron Perlman in a wig. Actual trans people are rarely found in the media, and that's why we are often annoyed at these negative stereotypes.

That's beginning to change I hope, and we can see for example Laverne Cox in Orange Is The New Black, but it'll be a while before such portrayals are the default instead of the rare exception. Trans people need to be seen, heard and visible in society, people need to be able to put a face to real life trans people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCZCok_u37w

humanji

jane82 wrote: »

Mrs garrison from south park. Get a sex change because he is not gay he is a woman. Becomes a lesbian. Then changes back to a gay man. He has issues about his father not molesting him. He has sex with everybody that ll do it. He is narky and short tempered with children and spends class time banging on about his life.
This is an okay way to portray transexuals because it is satire?

I would say the centre makes a decent go at nailing the transgender person that lives local to me. It also hits the nail on the head with the my big fat gypsy wedding portrayal of travellers.
Does that mean I find it satirical?

You can find it anything you want, but it's not a satire.

And with Mr Garrison, my point on the transgendered character in The League Of Gentlemen. The character isn't there just for a quick joke at their expense. They're a developed character, play into the storylines and also match the world that was created. The Centre didn't try to create a world for their characters to inhabit. They took some stereotypes and made jokes at their expense

jane82

humanji wrote: »

You can find it anything you want, but it's not a satire.

SATIRE
the use of humour, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues."the crude satire seems to be directed at the fashionable protest singers of the time"

I would call it satire.

humanji

But that's not what the show is doing at all.

NormanNicetouch

First show had an audience of just over 100,000 viewers. It's really not very good so I guess this would have fallen for subsequent episodes. Now, thanks to this kerfuffle, a lot of people are going to be tuning in to see what all the fuss was about. So this transgendered character will now be seen by far more people than if the show had been just left to quietly die of its own accord. Well done protestors.

Elmo

I don't think trans-gender should be seen, as such. Most want to go through their lives as normal as possible. Plenty of women have masculine looks, plenty of men have feminine looks, I don't assume anything about them. I feel everyone wants to put a label on everyone.

It's none of my business and I will respect everyone's right to privacy.

humanji

NormanNicetouch wrote: »

First show had an audience of just over 100,000 viewers. It's really not very good so I guess this would have fallen for subsequent episodes. Now, thanks to this kerfuffle, a lot of people are going to be tuning in to see what all the fuss was about. So this transgendered character will now be seen by far more people than if the show had been just left to quietly die of its own accord. Well done protestors.

And more people will see how RTE treat several minority groups and hopefully will have common enough sense to realise there's a problem there. Sweeping problems under the carpet rarely works. It's true that drawing attention to something can sometimes have an unexpected effect, but that doesn't mean we should just ignore the problems in society.

And more importantly, it may cause more people to complain about the low quality of RTE comedies and insist more effort is put into them, but that's wishful thinking.

Elmo

humanji wrote: »

And more importantly, it may cause more people to complain about the low quality of RTE comedies and insist more effort is put into them, but that's wishful thinking.

It won't because of the bigger issue raised.

jane82

humanji wrote: »

But that's not what the show is doing at all.

But it is. Its making fun of the cretinous state of a centre where everybody is employed based on how big a grant they get. Its making fun of the fact that if you stick a load of minorities in a job together they will all slag each other based in their differences even though they are all a bit different from the norm.
Its satire is satire.

humanji

jane82 wrote: »

But it is. Its making fun of the cretinous state of a centre where everybody is employed based on how big a grant they get. Its making fun of the fact that if you stick a load of minorities in a job together they will all slag each other based in their differences even though they are all a bit different from the norm.
Its satire is satire.

But it isn't. Think of the quote Annoboy gave earlier, "Satire is a lesson, parody is a game." This show isn't a lesson. It's not making a point. It's just using the concept of a centre that gets in as many groups it can for grants as a backdrop. They then make unrelated jokes to that. They're not trying to draw attention to any issue.

david75

This thread is even giving this program far more attention and worse, thought, that it deserves.
It's just totally awful and a reminder of how completely out of touch RTE actually are by commissioning it.
Prepubescent children might possibly laugh at it, it's about that level.

jane82

humanji wrote: »

But it isn't. Think of the quote Annoboy gave earlier, "Satire is a lesson, parody is a game." This show isn't a lesson. It's not making a point. It's just using the concept of a centre that gets in as many groups it can for grants as a backdrop. They then make unrelated jokes to that. They're not trying to draw attention to any issue.

I just told you what the lesson was. If you cant figure out the lesson enjoy it for the low brow humour but up here on my snooty snooty brow I get it. Its probably why I find it funny and you dont.

brian_t

NormanNicetouch wrote: »

First show had an audience of just over 100,000 viewers. It's really not very good so I guess this would have fallen for subsequent episodes...

It was at 6th in the ratings. Apart from League Sunday it was the most watched home-produced programme on RTE2.

I'd say the producers are happy enough.

http://www.medialive2.com/television/latest-top-20-programmes/latest-top-20-programmes.html

humanji

How is it a lesson? What are you learning from it? How does it relate to the real world?

Elmo

humanji wrote: »

How is it a lesson? What are you learning from it? How does it relate to the real world?

How not to make a comedy? How not to make a satire? How trying to be funny in a serious situation isn't always a good thing?

jane82

humanji wrote: »

How is it a lesson? What are you learning from it? How does it relate to the real world?

All these grants being offered to hire unemployed people or travellers or jobsbridge etc etc. If you hire people based on the grants this is what ensues.

humanji

jane82 wrote: »

All these grants being offered to hire unemployed people or travellers or jobsbridge etc etc. If you hire people based on the grants this is what ensues.

But that's just the premise. That's not what the show is about. If it were a satire, that theme would run through it. It wouldn't point it out, then ignore it to make unrelated jokes. At a stretch, it's a parody of community schemes in general, but there's nothing satirical about it.

NormanNicetouch

brian_t wrote: »

It was at 6th in the ratings. Apart from League Sunday it was the most watched home-produced programme on RTE2.

I'd say the producers are happy enough.

http://www.medialive2.com/television/latest-top-20-programmes/latest-top-20-programmes.html

It's far lower than Katherine Lynch's previous efforts and well below most of RTE2's recent home-produced comedies. Now it's got a boost.

jane82

humanji wrote: »

But that's just the premise. That's not what the show is about. If it were a satire, that theme would run through it. It wouldn't point it out, then ignore it to make unrelated jokes. At a stretch, it's a parody of community schemes in general, but there's nothing satirical about it.

Take episode two. The muslim was only wearing the veil to hide plastic surgery. She is told to keep it on for the grant after the traveller holds a fight to sort a tie break in a kids contest.
Its saying this is why the place has gone to the dogs.

humanji

But that's not saying anything. It's just the premise of the show. It's not making any social or political statements it's not casting a satirical eye on how centres like this are run, because no centre is run like that.

jane82

humanji wrote: »

But that's not saying anything. It's just the premise of the show. It's not making any social or political statements it's not casting a satirical eye on how centres like this are run, because no centre is run like that.

Not yet. But alot of them are ce scheme things. My son trains for football in winter in one. I got a cup of tea and the girl there told me it was 50p. I didnt expect free tea so over I handed 50p for a terrible cup of tea. She said I have to charge you the boss counts the tea bags.
Now there is something up when you are hiring staff you have to count tea bags on just to bring in a few quid. There was another menaceing looking chap that sat there the whole time and never moved.

AnonoBoy

Going out on a limb here since I haven't seen it but I reckon this thread is far more entertaining than the show.

jane82

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Going out on a limb here since I haven't seen it but I reckon this thread is far more entertaining than the show.

You honestly should try it boards people bash anything Irish comedy.

AnonoBoy

jane82 wrote: »

You honestly should try it boards people bash anything Irish comedy.

Nah. I'm ok. Thanks though.

Annasopra

jane82 wrote: »

All these grants being offered to hire unemployed people or travellers or jobsbridge etc etc. If you hire people based on the grants this is what ensues.

What ensues? Do you think this crap is anything like reality?

Annasopra

jane82 wrote: »

Not yet. But alot of them are ce scheme things. My son trains for football in winter in one. I got a cup of tea and the girl there told me it was 50p. I didnt expect free tea so over I handed 50p for a terrible cup of tea. She said I have to charge you the boss counts the tea bags.
Now there is something up when you are hiring staff you have to count tea bags on just to bring in a few quid. There was another menaceing looking chap that sat there the whole time and never moved.

And?

jane82

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

And?

An exagerrated portrayal of reality.

Annasopra

jane82 wrote: »

An exagerrated portrayal of reality.

Ive worked on a ce scheme and am familiar with community centres. This crap is waaaaay off the mark and nothing to do with reality.

jane82

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Ive worked on a ce scheme and am familiar with community centres. This crap is waaaaay off the mark and nothing to do with reality.

I disagree.

AnonoBoy

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Ive worked on a ce scheme and am familiar with community centres. This crap is waaaaay off the mark and nothing to do with reality.

So parody then, not satire?

jane82

AnonoBoy wrote: »

So parody then, not satire?

A parody of a satire. Very cutting edge.

BuilderPlumber

celtic tiger 2011 wrote: »

Well these locals that you know must of have a very low IQ, and you trying to portray this show as having some depth , is completely disingenuos . So it's case of I just don't get it, or maybe the most plausible explanation is that there is nothing to get.

It almosts sounds to me that you are tyrying to imply that Killnaskully was on some level high brow humour, that it was subtle and had real life characters and not some lazy rural sterotypes who had as much characeter depth as Ren and Stimpy, which would be a lot closer to the truth

The reality is to neutral observers, it was a stupid programme made by a talentless muppet in Patt Shortt, and by a large it appealed to a really backward and stupid demographic of Irish people .

Just so you know , I am not including you amongst the dunces, you seem to be a resonable intelligent person.

Personally, I like Pat Shortt and Killinaskully but I am not implying some high brow humour here. What it is all about is not stereotypes of rural Irish culchies but an actual carbon copy of real rural Irish culchies.

Yes, first of all I am not saying all rural Irish people are like the Killinaskullians but anyone in a rural place will identify the types portrayed in that series immediately such as:

-the know it all beer shark.
-those GAA people who hate their neighbouring parish (and rival hurling or football team) with a passion.
-local dramas that end in disaster.
-and especially: the useless, promise-all local councillor or TD.

Admittedly, the material was ALREADY there and I'm sure as all Pat had to do was rework a few characters from rural Tipperary and Limerick he knew and also some incidents he heard of too! And yes there is even such a village in Tipperary as KILLOSKULLY!! Yes, it is where some of the series is set! The Bally in the series is called Ballinahinch and but the latter is the former and the former is latter in the views we see in the series!

Skid X

If the show was mainly based around Yasmine Akram and Helen O'Brien's characters it might be half decent. Their scenes together seem far better than the rest of the programme.

Annasopra

jane82 wrote: »

I disagree.

How many community centres do you know seriously like this?

fiachr_a

Where does this stand in RTÉ's league of awfulness? As bad as English class, Roaring 20s?

Fatboydim

Interesting thread... Much of which can be answered by this link:
http://iftn.ie/news/?act1=record&only=1&aid=73&rid=4287022&tpl=archnews&force=1

If you read the article you'll see RTE are looking for comedies at 30 - 50k per episode. It's hard to see how anyone can make a living wage at that rate. Additionally look at the time spans for development... very short.

There is a saying in TV: You can have any two of the following three: 1) quality, 2) speed and 3) low/no budget, but you cannot have all three.

To decipher everyone wants quality... so we take that as a given.

You can make a programme quickly, but you better throw the cash at it to employ the best screenwriters, Camera crew, cast etc.

You can make a programme for a low budget, but you better allow people time... to hone the script, work out shots, improve performances through rehearsals etc.

But try to do all three and you end up with ... well The Centre.

I personally think it's awful. I find it lazy, poorly written, poorly filmed and poorly acted. I appreciate the tough circumstances that they are trying to make the programme under... and the fact that no body sets out to make a bad programme.

It's fine that some people like it. People like Mrs Brown's Boys... I don't. To some degree that's simply a matter of taste. However at least with Mrs Brown's Boys it is well made and the scripts are honed.

Compare The Centre with Moone Boy... both have Baby Cow as Co-pro. The difference in budget, writing talent, cast and crew is significant.
Moone Boy is satire with surreal elements, and deals with religion, racism, travellers and no doubt in the future may deal with a character who is transgender. Yet it does so with heart and skill. There is the grain of truth in all the characters. What we have in The Centre are caricatures... cartoons... two dimensional at best... one dimensional at worst. The audience are asked to laugh at the characters rather than with.

To illustrate an example of two racist jokes:

What's the difference between a *X*i and a bucket of ****? Nothing they both smell.

Why doesn't Pakistan have a successful football team? Because every time they get a corner they put a shop up on it.

Now there are some people who will laugh at the first joke. - It's not funny. It's simply racist.

The second joke is also questionable, but many people will laugh at it because it bears some resemblance to real life. Corner shops are often run by people from the Asian community who are industrious and professional. So we all have shopped at some point in our lives in such an establishment.

A third joke most people will laugh at...

A building site foreman is interviewing Paddy for a job. He has preconceptions about Irish workers so he decides to test Paddy by asking a question.
"What's the difference between a girder and Joist?"
Paddy answers, that's easy "Goethe wrote Faust and Joyce wrote Ulysees"

Here the joke works because it subverts expectations.

What The Centre is doing seems to be all the first type of joke.... and I believe that transgender people have a right to be upset by it. There is no pathos with the portrayal of the character... and pathos is important in comedy... it allows us to identify with the characters problems. We are not being asked to identify with any of these characters... simply to point and laugh. I don't feel comfortable with that.

A fine example of a comedy that takes risks and deals with satire and pathos well is the film Four Lions. What could be more contentious than suicide bombers? Yet the film is very funny... Why? .. because we are able to identify with the problems the characters face and just as important it begs us as audience members to question our attitudes.

It's entirely up to people what they laugh at, and what they protest about. However programme makers have a duty to their audience... and that duty is to research, represent and replicate society in all it's facets with honesty. When this is done, you'd be surprised how much you can get away with... it's why South Park gets away with it.

The shame of it is that the premise of The Centre is not bad. It could have genuinely interesting characters and incidents... But it is currently a sketch show masquerading as a sitcom.

Finally Jane82 - I laughed at your anecdote about the 50p teabag more than anything I've seen in The Centre