Football ranking table

Say Your Number

I think it's silly to be talking about league form now, it finished 4 months ago, and most teams use it to try new players and experiment, Kerry narrowly avoided relegation in the league last year too, How did they do in the Championship again?

Tyrone have built up a bit of momentum in the qualifiers, they will at least give Kerry something to think about anyway.

laoisman11

• Kerry recapture number one position, last held in March 2015, and push Dublin down to second
• Tyrone will finish the year in 4th place, in what can be considered a successful year, despite relegation to Division 2

#|Δ Rank|Team|Rating points|Δ ”Rating
1| increase| Kerry | 105.68 | 1.92
2| decrease| Dublin | 104.31 | 0.00
3| steady| Mayo | 103.52 | 0.00
4| steady| Tyrone | 96.44 | -1.92
5| steady| Donegal | 95.71 | 0.00
6| steady| Monaghan | 95.62 | 0.00
7| steady| Kildare | 92.84 | 0.00
8| steady| Galway | 89.70 | 0.00
9| steady| Fermanagh | 89.39 | 0.00
10| steady| Cork | 89.36 | 0.00
11| steady| Derry | 85.52 | 0.00
12| steady| Roscommon | 83.69 | 0.00
13| steady| Meath | 83.02 | 0.00
14| steady| Armagh | 82.64 | 0.00
15| steady| Westmeath | 80.56 | 0.00
16| steady| Sligo | 80.53 | 0.00
17| steady| Tipperary | 78.99 | 0.00
18| steady| Longford | 78.23 | 0.00
19| steady| Down | 77.27 | 0.00
20| steady| Wexford | 75.78 | 0.00
21| steady| Cavan | 75.27 | 0.00
22| steady| Clare | 73.45 | 0.00
23| steady| Limerick | 72.30 | 0.00
24| steady| Laois | 71.80 | 0.00
25| steady| Antrim | 71.70 | 0.00
26| steady| Offaly | 71.24 | 0.00
27| steady| Louth | 70.45 | 0.00
28| steady| Leitrim | 64.56 | 0.00
29| steady| Wicklow | 61.29 | 0.00
30| steady| London | 61.07 | 0.00
31| steady| Carlow | 60.92 | 0.00
32| steady| New York | 57.17 | 0.00
33| steady| Waterford | 56.32 | 0.00

Full explanation of ranking system here.

CrabRevolution

Not sure how easy it is to extract the information for this, but I've a query.

What were Dublin and Meath's scores right before the 1991 series of draws in Leinster?

And did the 2 of their scores regress towards each other so that by the third draw they had the exact same points as each other?

laoisman11

CrabRevolution wrote: »

Not sure how easy it is to extract the information for this, but I've a query.

What were Dublin and Meath's scores right before the 1991 series of draws in Leinster?

And did the 2 of their scores regress towards each other so that by the third draw they had the exact same points as each other?

Match|Date|Meath RT|Dublin RT| Rating difference*| Score difference
Draw|1991-06-02 |96.13 |97.38| -4.25| 0
1st replay|1991-06-09 |96.98 |96.53| -2.55| 0
2nd replay|1991-06-23 |97.49 |96.02| -1.53| 0
3rd replay|1991-07-06 |97.80 |95.71| -0.91| -1
|1991-07-07 |100.98 |92.53| |

*Rating difference is prior to the games and is calculated as: Meath RT - (Dublin RT + 3) - as Dublin were considered to have had home advantage

To answer your question, the ratings were regressing to a common point, but because Dublin were considered to have home advantage, the common point would have been 95.35 rating points for Dublin and 98.35 for Meath.

If the games were played at a neutral venue, then yes, they would regress to an identical number.

laoisman11

Dublin (104.31, at home) vs Mayo (103.52)

I have to say that I was really looking forward to watching this one, but I won't be able to as I'm travelling......

There are some mouth-watering individual and collective contests to be analysed and dissected in this game. Will Mayo's high intensity game disrupt Dublin ? How will the Dublin defense deal with the aerial threat of AOS in addition to the movement and fluidity of Mayo's forward line ? Can Keith Higgins and co keep the Mayo net from bulging? Will interpretations of what constitutes a black card offence be rehashed again ?

Dublin have dealt more or less comfortably with whatever was thrown at them so far this year, although it is hard not to get the feeling that the towel was thrown in before the ball was thrown in in many cases. Fermanagh did manage a commendable comeback, but not until the game was out of sight. Mayo haven't had it so easy, overcoming a potential banana skin in Salthill, easily disposing of Sligo before grinding out a solid win over Donegal. It is difficult to judge how good Donegal were but that game was surely of more benefit to Mayo than Dublin's win over Fermanagh.

Dublin have scored an average of 29.5 points in their 4 games this year, conceding 12.8 points (13-79 for, 2-45 against). Dean Rock and Bernard Brogan account for almost 50% of their scores.

Mayo's scoring stats are notably affected by the Connacht final result. They have scored an average of 26.7 points per game, conceding 14.0 points over their 3 games (9-53 for, 4-30 against). Cillian O'Connor and Aidan O'Shea provide almost 50% of their scoring potential.

The sides have met 7 times since 1925, with draws in 1955 and 1985, the replays of which were both won by Dublin, and 3 times in this century, with Mayo taking a 2-1 lead over Dublin.

Year | Date |Stage|| Team| G| P| Team| G| P| Venue
1955 |1955-08-21 | All-Ireland semi-final|| Dublin |0|07 |Mayo | 1| 04| Croke Park
1955 |1955-09-11 | All-Ireland semi-final |Replay|Dublin | 1 |08 |Mayo | 1 | 07 |Croke Park
1985 |1985-08-18 |All-Ireland semi-final|| Dublin | 1| 13 | Mayo | 1| 13 |Croke Park
1985 |1985-09-08 | All-Ireland semi-final| Replay| Dublin| 2 |12 | Mayo | 1| 07 |Croke Park
2006 |2006-08-27| All-Ireland semi-final|| Dublin | 2 |12 | Mayo|1 |16| Croke Park
2012 |2012-09-02 |All-Ireland semi-final || Dublin |0|16 | Mayo|0| 19| Croke Park
2013 |2013-09-22 | All-Ireland final|| Dublin | 2| 12 | Mayo | 1 |14 |Croke Park

In terms of how the teams have matched up by rating point difference, Dublin have always been rated higher than Mayo, and are again here, with 3.8 rating points separating the sides (taking into account Dublin's home advantage). The prediction model is going for Dublin by 3, but I have a sneaky feeling for a draw (in order to maintain the draw every 30 year theory (1955-1985-2015) and because that blue line does look like it's cutting through the x-axis at approximately 3 rating points!)

seligehgit

It's amazing the amount of people who I've talked to that are predicting a draw.

CrabRevolution

Ended a draw, as many said it would.

Dublin seem fond of scoring 2-12 vs. Mayo. That's 4 of their last 5 games it has happened now.

laoisman11

Dublin (103.55, at home) vs Mayo (104.28)

I don't have too much more to add to last week's preview, especially as I didn't get to see the game. Mayo have overtaken Dublin in terms of rating points but Dublin still maintain the upper hand due to home advantage. The prediction model says Dublin by 2.

laoisman11

• Dublin regain top position following their bonus point win over Mayo
• Mayo will finish the season in 3rd position, regardless of the outcome of the final

#|Δ Rank|Team|Rating points|Δ Rating
1| increase| Dublin | 107.37 | 3.82
2| decrease| Kerry | 105.68 | 0.00
3| decrease| Mayo | 100.46 | -3.82
4| steady| Tyrone | 96.44 | 0.00
5| steady| Donegal | 95.71 | 0.00
6| steady| Monaghan | 95.62 | 0.00
7| steady| Kildare | 92.84 | 0.00
8| steady| Galway | 89.70 | 0.00
9| steady| Fermanagh | 89.39 | 0.00
10| steady| Cork | 89.36 | 0.00
11| steady| Derry | 85.52 | 0.00
12| steady| Roscommon | 83.69 | 0.00
13| steady| Meath | 83.02 | 0.00
14| steady| Armagh | 82.64 | 0.00
15| steady| Westmeath | 80.56 | 0.00
16| steady| Sligo | 80.53 | 0.00
17| steady| Tipperary | 78.99 | 0.00
18| steady| Longford | 78.23 | 0.00
19| steady| Down | 77.27 | 0.00
20| steady| Wexford | 75.78 | 0.00
21| steady| Cavan | 75.27 | 0.00
22| steady| Clare | 73.45 | 0.00
23| steady| Limerick | 72.30 | 0.00
24| steady| Laois | 71.80 | 0.00
25| steady| Antrim | 71.70 | 0.00
26| steady| Offaly | 71.24 | 0.00
27| steady| Louth | 70.45 | 0.00
28| steady| Leitrim | 64.56 | 0.00
29| steady| Wicklow | 61.29 | 0.00
30| steady| London | 61.07 | 0.00
31| steady| Carlow | 60.92 | 0.00
32| steady| New York | 57.17 | 0.00
33| steady| Waterford | 56.32 | 0.00

Full explanation of ranking system here.

laoisman11

All-Ireland final 2015

Dublin (107.37, at home) vs Kerry (105.68)

It seems like ages since the semi-finals were played and the early stages of the championship feels like last year – well to me anyways!

The dream final is delivered upon us and we can only hope that it lives up to it's billing. Dublin appeared to have improved their system of play since last year, at a time when they were proclaimed unbeatable (except nobody told Donegal). They did make hard work of Mayo's challenge in the semi-final, but showed plenty of determination to work their way through it. Prior to the Mayo game, though, Dublin were barely ruffled more than a Monaghan man's coiff.

Kerry have had arguably the easier route to the final, taking 2 turns to overcome a later-to-be-found-out Cork in Munster and then a decent win over a hard-working but ultimately limited Tyrone side. What was impressive in that game was Kerry's resolve in the final 10 minutes, where they effectively shut up shop and outscored Tyrone.

Both teams have some class operators scattered throughout their teams, but it is Dublin's attacking system which really catches the eye. Kerry's defense did not comprehensively answer all the questions put to them during this year's championship, so they know they still have work to do, but will it be enough ?

Kerry have scored 12-74 in 5 games this year and conceded 7-47 (average of 22.0 points for and 13.6 against) whereas Dublin have scored a whopping 18-106 in 6 games and conceded 4-74 (26.7 for, 14.3 against). What is remarkable is the spread of scorers in the Kerry team, i.e. no one player has scored more than 15% of their total score. Compare this to Dublin's scoring pattern, where Bernard Brogan (6-19) accounts for 23% of their scores, and Dean Rock (2-21) almost 17 %. Paul Geaney incidentally is top scorer for Kerry on 2-10.

The 10 previous meetings between the teams:
Year|Stage|Team|Score|Team|Score|Venue
1979 |All-Ireland final | Dublin |1-08 |Kerry |3-13 |Croke Park
1984 | All-Ireland final | Dublin |1-06 | Kerry | 0-14 |Croke Park
1985 | All-Ireland final| Dublin| 2 -08 | Kerry | 2-12 |Croke Park
2001 | All-Ireland quarter-final | Kerry | 1-14 |Dublin| 2-11 |Thurles
2001 | All-Ireland quarter-final replay |Dublin |1-12 |Kerry | 2-12 |Thurles
2004 |All-Ireland quarter-final |Dublin| 1-08 |Kerry |1-15 |Croke Park
2007 |All-Ireland semi-final | Dublin |0-16 |Kerry |1-15 |Croke Park
2009 | All-Ireland quarter-final |Dublin |1-07 |Kerry |1-24 |Croke Park
2011 |All-Ireland final | Dublin| 1-12| Kerry| 1-11 |Croke Park
2013 |All-Ireland semi-final | Dublin |3-18| Kerry |3-11 |Croke Park

If we look at these results in the context of each team's rating points at that particular time, we get the following which is frankly all over the place:



Concentrating on games since 2000, a much clearer pattern emerges:




So, based on these results and the current rating of the teams involved, the prediction model says that the winners of the All-Ireland final of 2015 will be: Dublin. By 2 points.

laoisman11

How did your team perform this year?

Below is the table of changes in rating points and changes in rank compared to the end of last year's championship, ordered by current rank.

Rank|Team|Δ Rating points|Δ Rank
1 | Dublin | 10.50 | 2
2 | Kerry | -4.97 | -1
3 | Mayo | 1.86 | 1
4 | Tyrone | 7.32 | 4
5 | Donegal | -8.85 | -3
6 | Monaghan | 1.19 | 0
7 | Kildare | 4.10 | 3
8 | Galway | 2.32 | 3
9 | Fermanagh | 18.56 | 16
10 | Cork | -1.66 | -3
11 | Derry | 1.23 | 2
12 | Roscommon | -1.94 | 0
13 | Meath | -5.95 | -4
14 | Armagh | -12.03 | -9
15 | Westmeath | 8.35 | 7
16 | Sligo | 9.37 | 8
17 | Tipperary | -4.72 | -3
18 | Longford | 4.79 | 3
19 | Down | -1.97 | -3
20 | Wexford | 0.51 | 0
21 | Cavan | -1.84 | -3
22 | Clare | -1.88 | -3
23 | Limerick | 1.12 | 0
24 | Laois | -10.87 | -9
25 | Antrim | 3.37 | 2
26 | Offaly | 4.98 | 3
27 | Louth | -7.64 | -10
28 | Leitrim | -4.02 | -2
29 | Wicklow | -6.28 | -1
30 | London | -3.23 | 0
31 | Carlow | 0.49 | 0
32 | New York | 0.00 | 1
33 | Waterford | -2.21 | -1

Full explanation of ranking system here.

Top 3 winners:
Fermanagh (+16 ranking places, +18.56 rating points)
- Promotion from Division 3 and a place in the All-Ireland quarter-finals were behind Fermanagh's huge rise in the rankings.

Sligo (+8 ranking places, +9.37 rating points)
- The main driver in Sligo's climb up the rankings this year was their Connacht semi-final win over Roscommon

Westmeath (+7 ranking places, +8.35 rating points)
- Relegation from Division 2 didn't bode well for Westmeath's championship prospects but wins over Louth, Wexford and Meath ensured a positive move in the rankings

Top 3 losers:
Louth (-10 ranking places, -7.64 rating points)
- 3 wins out of 10 games finishing with a hammering from Tipperary summed up Louth's year

Armagh (-9 ranking places, -12.03 rating points)
- Promotion from Division 3 was obtained from a high rating point base (i.e. Armagh didn't gain many rating points from their 6 victories from 8 games in the league) but a heavy defeat to Donegal and a home loss to Galway finished their season

Laois (-9 ranking places, -10.87 rating points)
- 3 win out of 10 games, with a home defeat to Antrim the final nail in the coffin of a extremely poor season for Laois

cj maxx

How dd we do ?
Monaghan , not much change seemingly
Steady at no.6 whch lookng at the teams is about right .
As deflating as the loss to tyrone was, i thnk theres more n the team snd management to improve next year.

laoisman11

In light of the NFL pools starting up again, I thought that it would be interesting to rank teams in each division based on their rating points. This has been shown to give some indication of whether a team will finish in relegation/promotion territory.

2015 NFL
Div 1| Rating| Div 2| Rating| Div 3| Rating| Div 4| Rating
Dublin | 109 | Tyrone | 96 | Kildare | 93 | Wexford | 76
Kerry | 104 | Galway | 90 | Westmeath | 81 | Antrim | 72
Mayo | 100 | Fermanagh| 89 | Sligo | 81 | Louth | 70
Donegal | 96 | Derry| 86 | Tipperary | 79 | Leitrim | 65
Monaghan | 96 | Meath | 83 | Longford | 78 | Wicklow | 61
Cork | 89 | Armagh | 83 | Clare | 73 | London | 61
Roscommon | 84 | Cavan | 75 | Limerick | 72 | Carlow | 61
Down| 77 | Laois | 72 | Offaly | 71 | Waterford | 56

Previous year's finishes: tables are sorted by ranking position prior to start of the league, colour indicate top 2 finish (green) or bottom 2 finish (red)

2015 NFL
Div 1| Rank| Div 2| Rank| Div 3| Rank| Div 4| Rank
Kerry | 1 | Kildare | 9 | Armagh | 7 | Longford | 22
Donegal | 2 | Meath | 10 | Tipperary | 15 | Antrim | 26
Dublin | 3 | Galway | 11 | Louth | 18 | Wicklow | 27
Mayo | 4 | Roscommon | 13 | Wexford | 19 | Leitrim | 28
Monaghan | 5 | Laois | 14 | Clare | 20 | Offaly | 29
Cork | 6 | Down | 16 | Fermanagh | 23 | London | 30
Tyrone | 8 | Cavan | 17 | Limerick | 24 | Carlow | 31
Derry | 12 | Westmeath | 21 | Sligo | 25 | Waterford | 32

2014 NFL
Div 1| Rank| Div 2| Rank| Div 3| Rank| Div 4| Rank
Dublin | 1 | Donegal | 6 | Cavan | 12 | Tipperary | 20
Mayo | 2 | Monaghan | 7 | Wexford | 17 | Antrim | 26
Kerry | 3 | Meath | 9 | Roscommon | 19 | Clare | 27
Tyrone | 4 | Down | 10 | Limerick | 21 | Wicklow | 28
Cork | 5 | Laois | 11 | Fermanagh | 22 | London | 29
Kildare | 8 | Galway | 14 | Longford | 23 | Waterford | 30
Derry | 13 | Louth | 15 | Offaly | 24 | Leitrim | 31
Westmeath | 18 | Armagh | 16 | Sligo | 25 | Carlow | 32

2013 NFL
Div 1| Rank| Div 2| Rank| Div 3| Rank| Div 4| Rank
Donegal | 1 | Laois | 9 | Meath | 10 | Limerick | 17
Cork | 2 | Armagh | 11 | Sligo | 15 | Tipperary | 20
Mayo | 3 | Wexford | 12 | Monaghan | 19 | Clare | 25
Kerry | 4 | Derry | 13 | Roscommon | 21 | Offaly | 27
Dublin | 5 | Galway | 14 | Antrim | 22 | Leitrim | 28
Tyrone | 6 | Westmeath | 16 | Cavan | 24 | Carlow | 29
Kildare | 7 | Longford | 18 | Wicklow | 26 | Waterford | 31
Down | 8 | Louth | 23 | Fermanagh | 30 | London | 33

*Unfortunately, the description of the ranking system previously available on wikipedia is no longer available (special thanks to the wikipedia user gnevin who was quick to alert the mods that certain aspects of the page did not meet the criteria for a wiki!)

laoisman11

(Apologies in advance, the formatting options are gone haywire here and I'm not sure how this will turn out)

- Dublin's win over Kerry moves them to an all-time high in rating points and 1.7 points off the record set by Kerry in 1978
- Cork were the big winners in terms of rating points after their bonus point win over Mayo (+3.46)
- Offaly were the biggest movers, hopping 3 places to move up to 23rd

#|Δ Rank|Team|Rating points|Δ Rating
1| steady| Dublin | 110.36 | 0.93
2| steady| Kerry | 102.69 | -0.93
3| steady| Mayo | 97.00 | -3.46
4| steady| Tyrone | 96.45 | 0.01
5| increase| Monaghan | 96.23 | 0.61
6| decrease| Donegal | 95.71 | 0.00
7| steady| Kildare | 93.41 | 0.57
8| increase| Cork | 92.82 | 3.46
9| decrease| Galway | 89.71 | 0.01
10| increase| Derry | 87.90 | 2.38
11| decrease| Fermanagh | 87.01 | -2.38
12| increase| Meath | 84.18 | 1.16
13| decrease| Roscommon | 83.08 | -0.61
14| steady| Armagh | 81.48 | -1.16
15| steady| Westmeath | 79.99 | -0.57
16| increase| Tipperary | 78.62 | -0.37
17| decrease| Sligo | 77.68 | -2.85
18| increase| Down | 77.27 | 0.00
19| decrease| Longford | 76.33 | -1.90
20| increase| Clare | 76.31 | 2.86
21| decrease| Wexford | 75.86 | 0.08
22| decrease| Cavan | 75.27 | 0.00
23| increase| Offaly | 73.14 | 1.90
24| decrease| Limerick | 72.67 | 0.37
25| steady| Antrim | 72.42 | 0.72
26| decrease| Laois | 71.79 | -0.01
27| steady| Louth | 70.84 | 0.39
28| steady| Leitrim | 64.48 | -0.08
29| steady| Wicklow | 61.99 | 0.70
30| steady| London | 60.68 | -0.39
31| steady| Carlow | 60.19 | -0.73
32| steady| New York | 57.17 | 0.00
33| steady| Waterford | 55.62 | -0.70

laoisman11

• Dublin continue to amass rating points and close in on Kerry's all-time record
• Roscommon gained the most rating points of the weekend with an away win over Kerry
• In terms of ranking position, Laois were the main movers, advancing 4 places to 22nd after a good win in Armagh

#|Δ Rank|Team|Rating points|Δ Rating
1| steady| Dublin | 110.82 | 0.46
2| steady| Kerry | 99.69 | -3.00
3| increase| Tyrone | 97.58 | 1.13
4| increase| Donegal | 97.08 | 1.37
5| decrease| Mayo | 96.54 | -0.46
6| decrease| Monaghan | 96.23 | 0.00
7| steady| Kildare | 93.41 | 0.00
8| steady| Cork | 91.45 | -1.37
9| steady| Galway | 88.58 | -1.13
10| steady| Derry | 88.44 | 0.54
11| steady| Fermanagh | 87.93 | 0.92
12| increase| Roscommon | 86.08 | 3.00
13| decrease| Meath | 83.26 | -0.92
14| increase| Tipperary | 79.59 | 0.97
15| increase| Sligo | 79.11 | 1.43
16| decrease| Armagh | 78.71 | -2.77
17| decrease| Westmeath | 78.56 | -1.43
18| steady| Down | 77.27 | 0.00
19| steady| Longford | 77.16 | 0.83
20| steady| Clare | 75.34 | -0.97
21| increase| Cavan | 74.73 | -0.54
22| increase| Laois | 74.56 | 2.77
23| decrease| Wexford | 74.32 | -1.54
24| increase| Antrim | 73.96 | 1.54
25| decrease| Offaly | 73.14 | 0.00
26| decrease| Limerick | 71.84 | -0.83
27| steady| Louth | 71.12 | 0.28
28| increase| Wicklow | 64.04 | 2.05
29| decrease| Leitrim | 62.43 | -2.05
30| increase| Carlow | 62.04 | 1.85
31| decrease| London | 58.83 | -1.85
32| steady| New York | 57.17 | 0.00
33| steady| Waterford | 55.34 | -0.28

HanaleiJ5N

What's Kerry's record? Not often a team pulls out an 11+ point lead, that must nearly be a record in itself!

laoisman11

HanaleiJ5N wrote: »

What's Kerry's record? Not often a team pulls out an 11+ point lead, that must nearly be a record in itself!

Kerry hit 112.05 rating points in November 1978. Twelve months later (Nov 1979), Kerry had a 14.32 point lead over Dublin in 2nd place (109.79 vs 95.47).

Xenophile

Great to see Tipperary move into the top sixteen.

The best of luck to Clonmel Commercials next Saturday !

Jayop

Hard to believe that 2 wins in Div2 can move Tyrone above Mayo who have faced much harder opponents in Div1.

CrabRevolution

They were probably pretty close after both losing in the semi finals last year, so it wouldn't take much for them to swap places, no matter what the division.

CrabRevolution

Laoisman, does it make a huge difference to the overall amount of points exchanged if the "expected" result occurs after a replay? I know if it's a draw, the 2 teams will get closer together in points, but doesn't that just increase the points gained by the favorite team in the 2nd match?

Say team A is ranked a few spots ahead of B, and are mild favorites to beat team B at a neutral venue. The match ends a draw, so team A loses a few points to team B, the gap between them narrows.

Since the gap between them is narrowed, does this mean team A gain more points from winning the replay than had they just beaten them the first day? Does it cancel out the points lost due to the draw? After drawing then losing, does team B end up with more or fewer points than they started with?

Jayop

CrabRevolution wrote: »

They were probably pretty close after both losing in the semi finals last year, so it wouldn't take much for them to swap places, no matter what the division.

Aye I get that but it just seems a bit harsh on Mayo and that's coming from a Tyrone man.

laoisman11

CrabRevolution wrote: »

Laoisman, does it make a huge difference to the overall amount of points exchanged if the "expected" result occurs after a replay? I know if it's a draw, the 2 teams will get closer together in points, but doesn't that just increase the points gained by the favorite team in the 2nd match?

Say team A is ranked a few spots ahead of B, and are mild favorites to beat team B at a neutral venue. The match ends a draw, so team A loses a few points to team B, the gap between them narrows.

Since the gap between them is narrowed, does this mean team A gain more points from winning the replay than had they just beaten them the first day? Does it cancel out the points lost due to the draw? After drawing then losing, does team B end up with more or fewer points than they started with?

Yes, you are correct in what you say. Team A would gain more from winning the replay than if they had won the first day, and effectively Team B are "penalised" for having taking the game to a replay. It's not ideal, but it doesn't hugely affect the points transferred either. I think that you asked me a similar question before......http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=96764469&postcount=255

laoisman11

Jayop wrote: »

Hard to believe that 2 wins in Div2 can move Tyrone above Mayo who have faced much harder opponents in Div1.

As already mentioned, both teams were particularly high in rating points after their semi-final appearances. Tyrone do have an advantage of collecting points as they are in a weaker division and more likely to win their games (although the total points that they will collect will be low due to their vastly superior rating points) whereas Mayo could lose a lot of points if they go through the league without a win.

Conversely, given the rating points difference between each team and the other teams in their respective divisions, each loss for Tyrone would be much more costly than a loss for Mayo.

CrabRevolution

laoisman11 wrote: »

Yes, you are correct in what you say. Team A would gain more from winning the replay than if they had won the first day, and effectively Team B are "penalised" for having taking the game to a replay. It's not ideal, but it doesn't hugely affect the points transferred either. I think that you asked me a similar question before......http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=96764469&postcount=255

I remember that question alright, I didn't think you could lose points though by effectively getting a "better" result.

keane2097

Doesn't seem too out of whack that a team with a good chance of winning D2 could pass out a team with a good chance of being relegated from D1 during the league.

No system is perfect and people will always have grievances.

Look no further than the FIFA rankings.
Belgium are top and have been knocking around number 1 for quite a while yet haven't done ANYTHING of note.
At least these rankings have never been that extreme.

Jayop

gilberto_eire wrote: »

No system is perfect and people will always have grievances.

Look no further than the FIFA rankings.
Belgium are top and have been knocking around number 1 for quite a while yet haven't done ANYTHING of note.
At least these rankings have never been that extreme.

No grievance here. I suppose it makes sense that the two wins would push us over them given how close we were before the league started.

In fact it's a pretty accurate representation of how you'd expect most championship games to play out possibly with the exception of Tyrone being favoured over Mayo.

Syferus

Jayop wrote: »

No grievance here. I suppose it makes sense that the two wins would push us over them given how close we were before the league started.

In fact it's a pretty accurate representation of how you'd expect most championship games to play out possibly with the exception of Tyrone being favoured over Mayo.

If be surprised if we'd (Roscommon) be underdogs against Down or Kildare given how one-side those matches were last year.. rankings reflect a period of time greater than the here and now. But when it comes to any match all that matters is the here and now.

Jayop

Syferus wrote: »

If be surprised if we'd (Roscommon) be underdogs against Down or Kildare given how one-side those matches were last year.. rankings reflect a period of time greater than the here and now. But when it comes to any match all that matters is the here and now.

But you're rated well above Down so that's correct. Kildare are a bit of a misnomer.

Frankie Lee

Jayop wrote: »

But you're rated well above Down so that's correct. Kildare are a bit of a misnomer.

Hammering the teams around them and Cork in the championship last year is the reason while the hammerings fro Dublin and Kerry didn't hurt too much as they were ranked so far ahead. If they can avoid defeat in the League they should stay where they are but any defeats from division 3 opposition will hurt badly.

jimbo32123

Donegal have barely moved after scoring 2 major wins! is this due to Cork and Downs poor championship last season and there low standing?

Fr Tod Umptious

As other posters have said this ranking is more useful when you look at it in the long term.

Jayop

jimbo32123 wrote: »

Donegal have barely moved after scoring 2 major wins! is this due to Cork and Downs poor championship last season and there low standing?

I'd imagine it's more that the teams still above them are either also winning or were so far ahead already so as not to be caught with two wins.

laoisman11

A minor bug in the system meant that the ratings calculated after the 2nd weekend of the league were slightly incorrect (the results of Round 1 of the league were entered twice; these are corrected below)

After Round 3 of the league, there was a lot of movement in the rankings:

• The big mover in rating points was not Roscommon, surprisingly, but Cavan following their impressive win over Meath
• It is very tight in the 75 - 79 zone of the rating points, which is the main reason for Sligo to lose 6 ranking places after a narrow loss to Offaly

#|Δ Rank|Team|Rating point|Δ Rating
1| steady| Dublin | 110.89 | 0.07
2| steady| Kerry | 99.24 | -0.45
3| increase| Donegal | 98.98 | 1.90
4| decrease| Tyrone | 97.27 | -0.31
5| increase| Monaghan | 95.92 | -0.31
6| decrease| Mayo | 95.09 | -1.45
7| steady| Kildare | 93.11 | -0.30
8| increase| Galway | 90.35 | 1.77
9| increase| Roscommon | 89.38 | 3.30
10| decrease| Cork | 88.39 | -3.06
11| decrease| Derry | 87.07 | -1.37
12| decrease| Fermanagh | 85.44 | -2.49
13| increase| Armagh | 81.15 | 2.44
14| decrease| Meath | 79.72 | -3.54
15| decrease| Tipperary | 79.54 | -0.05
16| increase| Westmeath | 78.60 | 0.04
17| increase| Cavan | 78.55 | 3.82
18| steady| Down | 77.27 | 0.00
19| steady| Longford | 77.22 | 0.06
20| steady| Clare | 77.12 | 1.78
21| decrease| Sligo | 76.98 | -2.13
22| increase| Offaly | 75.50 | 2.36
23| increase| Antrim | 74.54 | 0.58
24| decrease| Wexford | 74.26 | -0.06
25| decrease| Laois | 74.24 | -0.32
26| increase| Louth | 72.44 | 1.32
27| decrease| Limerick | 70.08 | -1.76
28| steady| Wicklow | 62.83 | -1.21
29| steady| Leitrim | 61.97 | -0.46
30| increase| London | 58.76 | -0.07
31| decrease| Carlow | 58.71 | -3.33
32| increase| Waterford | 58.57 | 3.23
33| decrease| New York | 57.17 | 0.00

Jayop

Donegal's impressive win over Mayo has lifted them over Tyrone despite our win over Laois. You can really see the difference in Div1 sides beating each other over Div2 sides beating each other.

laoisman11

Jayop wrote: »

Donegal's impressive win over Mayo has lifted them over Tyrone despite our win over Laois. You can really see the difference in Div1 sides beating each other over Div2 sides beating each other.

Tyrone would not have picked up any rating points for beating Laois as there are approx. 25 rating points between the sides. I might be (ever-so-slightly!) biased in thinking that Laois are artificially low, but it does certainly help to be playing, and beating, teams at similar or higher rating points than your own team in order to gain rating points.

Jayop

laoisman11 wrote: »

Tyrone would not have picked up any rating points for beating Laois as there are approx. 25 rating points between the sides. I might be (ever-so-slightly!) biased in thinking that Laois are artificially low, but it does certainly help to be playing, and beating, teams at similar or higher rating points than your own team in order to gain rating points.

No offense to you either but Donegal beating Mayo should be worth more points than Tyrone beating Laois.

And I agree that Laois are too low on the table. There's no way there's 24 better teams than you in the country.

Syferus

Remember the Roscommon-Down game was a neutral venue tie..

Jayop

We should leap frog Donegal after that weekend.

laoisman11

Main talking points after Round 4 of the NFL:

• Cavan gained the most rating points (2.64) and climb 4 places in the rankings to 13th, their highest position since June 2014
• Armagh, meanwhile, drop 5 places to 18th, their lowest position since June 2014 (a bittersweet coincidence!)
• Tyrone rejoin the top 3 for the first time since March 2014, while Roscommon break into the top 8 for the first time since June 2004.
• However, the record breakers are Clare, who have not seen 16th place since 2001!

P.S. The Roscommon - Down game was a neutral venue tie, otherwise Roscommon would not have received very many rating points for beating Down

#|Δ Rank|Team|Rating|Δ Rating
1 | = | Dublin | 110.89 | 0.00
2 | = | Kerry | 100.71 | 1.47
3 | ▲ | Tyrone | 97.99 | 0.72
4 | ▼ | Donegal | 97.51 | -1.47
5 | ▲ | Mayo | 96.67 | 1.58
6 | ▼ | Monaghan | 94.34 | -1.58
7 | = | Kildare | 93.11 | 0.00
8 | ▲ | Roscommon | 89.81 | 0.43
9 | ▼ | Galway | 89.29 | -1.06
10 | = | Cork | 88.39 | 0.00
11 | = | Derry | 86.35 | -0.72
12 | = | Fermanagh | 86.01 | 0.57
13 | ▲ 4 | Cavan | 81.19 | 2.64
14 | = | Meath | 80.78 | 1.06
15 | = | Tipperary | 80.64 | 1.10
16 | ▲ 4 | Clare | 79.59 | 2.47
17 | ▲ 2 | Longford | 78.70 | 1.48
18 | ▼ 5 | Armagh | 78.51 | -2.64
19 | ▼ | Down | 76.84 | -0.43
20 | ▼ 4 | Westmeath | 76.13 | -2.47
21 | = | Sligo | 75.50 | -1.48
22 | ▲ | Antrim | 74.54 | 0.00
23 | ▼ | Offaly | 74.40 | -1.10
24 | = | Wexford | 74.26 | 0.00
25 | = | Laois | 73.67 | -0.57
26 | ▲ | Limerick | 70.08 | 0.00
27 | ▼ | Louth | 69.89 | -2.55
28 | ▲ | Leitrim | 64.52 | 2.55
29 | ▼ | Wicklow | 60.92 | -1.91
30 | ▲ | Carlow | 60.62 | 1.91
31 | ▼ | London | 58.76 | 0.00
32 | = | Waterford | 58.57 | 0.00
33 | = | New York | 57.17 | 0.00

Jayop

Tyrone were in 3rd after R2 this year.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=98646227&postcount=266

laoisman11

Jayop wrote: »

Tyrone were in 3rd after R2 this year.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=98646227&postcount=266

Me bad! Have to update the code, it probably compares to previous years only. Thanks.

Frankie Lee

Why did Kildare lose nothing for winning at home against Limerick but lost 0.3 points for winning away to Longford who are ranked higher than Limerick?

HanaleiJ5N

Frankie Lee wrote: »

Why did Kildare lose nothing for winning at home against Limerick but lost 0.3 points for winning away to Longford who are ranked higher than Limerick?

Team's don't lose anything for winning.....
Most likely a typo. Believe me, very easily done when typing up these tables. Don't think I've ever successfully typed up a table in the hurling ranking thread without making at least one typo!

Jayop

TBF beating poor Longford should come with some sort of penalty.

CrabRevolution

Crazy to think there's such a gap between Dublin and Cork in the rankings that Dublin got nothing for beating them well.

laoisman11

Jayop wrote: »

Tyrone were in 3rd after R2 this year.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=98646227&postcount=266

Frankie Lee wrote: »

Why did Kildare lose nothing for winning at home against Limerick but lost 0.3 points for winning away to Longford who are ranked higher than Limerick?

I checked these out, and both were due to the error in the calculation after the 2nd weekend i.e. Tyrone didn't get to 3rd at that time, and Kildare were incorrectly 0.3 points too high after Rd 2, the reduction by 0.3 points was to correct that.

laoisman11

The big movers after Round 5:

• Cork gained the most rating points (3.14) in their win over Monaghan
• Sligo jumped 4 places following an excellent win against table-toppers Kildare
• Roscommon are into the top 6 for the first time since March 2004
• Down are at their lowest level since September 2007

#|Δ | Rank|Team|Δ Rating
1 | = | Dublin | 110.89 | 0.00
2 | = | Kerry | 101.81 | 1.10
3 | = | Tyrone | 97.99 | 0.00
4 | ▲ | Mayo | 95.57 | -1.10
5 | ▼ | Donegal | 95.24 | -2.27
6 | ▲ 2 | Roscommon | 92.08 | 2.27
7 | ▲ 3 | Cork | 91.53 | 3.14
8 | ▼ 2 | Monaghan | 91.20 | -3.14
9 | ▼ 2 | Kildare | 90.11 | -3.00
10 | ▼ | Galway | 88.21 | -1.08
11 | = | Derry | 85.08 | -1.27
12 | ▲ | Cavan | 84.16 | 2.97
13 | ▼ | Fermanagh | 83.04 | -2.97
14 | ▲ 3 | Longford | 81.24 | 2.54
15 | ▼ | Meath | 80.78 | 0.00
16 | ▲ 2 | Armagh | 79.59 | 1.08
17 | ▲ 4 | Sligo | 78.50 | 3.00
18 | ▼ 3 | Tipperary | 78.10 | -2.54
19 | ▼ 3 | Clare | 77.57 | -2.02
20 | = | Westmeath | 77.47 | 1.34
21 | ▼ 2| Down | 76.84 | 0.00
22 | ▲ | Offaly | 76.42 | 2.02
23 | ▲ 2 | Laois | 74.94 | 1.27
24 | ▼ 2 | Antrim | 74.54 | 0.00
25 | ▼ | Wexford | 74.51 | 0.25
26 | ▲ | Louth | 70.75 | 0.86
27 | ▼ | Limerick | 68.74 | -1.34
28 | = | Leitrim | 65.44 | 0.92
29 | = | Wicklow | 60.67 | -0.25
30 | = | Carlow | 59.76 | -0.86
31 | ▲ | Waterford | 58.57 | 0.00
32 | ▼ | London | 57.84 | -0.92
33 | = | New York | 57.17 | 0.00

BonnieSituation

I know you posted it before, but what's the record ranking points total ever? Kerry had it in the 70s.

And when are Dublin likely to achieve it? Assuming we win our remaining games?