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NCT passed but car not roadworthy ?

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    #62
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,454 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    kona wrote: »
    So you would fail a car presented for a road worthiness test with the engine number vin plate , etched glass all matching docs but you couldn't find the chassis stamp?

    Don't some Renaults not have a chassis stamp?


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    #63
    kona
    Registered Users Posts: 7,525 ✭✭✭kona


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    Don't some Renaults not have a chassis stamp?

    I dont know but then they will never be road worthy will they? :p


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    #64
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,454 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    kona wrote: »
    I dont know but then they will never be road worthy will they? :p

    Ah sure they're Renaults, there'd always be something wrong either way etc etc etc


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    #65
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    Don't some Renaults not have a chassis stamp?

    IIRC the issue is location rather than them being missing altogether. The Scenic is one that's come up a few time I think but ours has passed every time so it must be in one of the more obvious locations. I'm sure Renault has a list of the places they stamp but the NCT either hasn't been given the list or looked for it.


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    #66
    porsche959
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭porsche959


    aquarius10 wrote: »
    My 20 yr old son bought a 1998 car for €1000 recently through done deal and paid cash. it had just passed the NCT And looked ok. You'd think it would be a Safe bet ?

    He has since put it up on a lift and checked by a mechanic who cannot believe it recently passed an NCT due to the amount of rust & corrosion on the chassis underneath. It will need a lot of work done to pass the next NCT.

    The person who sold the car works in the local NCT centre. Alarm bells ringing in my head !

    Before we phone the seller, have we any comeback ? Is there an ombudsman or what should we do ... I honestly think he has pulled a fast one, advice please

    Exact same thing happened to me with a Jaguar XJ-S. Passed the NCT no problem but took it to a Jaguar specialist and he said "that car is not roadworthy due to corrosion under the bonnet".


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    #67
    kona
    Registered Users Posts: 7,525 ✭✭✭kona


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    Ah sure they're Renaults, there'd always be something wrong either way etc etc etc

    Heh heh heh:pac:


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    #68
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    kona wrote: »
    So you would fail a car presented for a road worthiness test with the engine number vin plate , etched glass all matching docs but you couldn't find the chassis stamp?

    They are not required to check engine number and glass etching is no proof of anything really. The only thing they are required to check is the VIN (usually the windscreen or chassis plate/stamp).

    If they can't find the VIN it's up to you to locate it, in the meantime they'll probably still do the test but can't issue a cert until you can show them the mark.

    From the NCT manual
    The Vehicle Identification Number on the vehicle must correspond with the information on the Vehicle Registration File/Book/Licence Certificate. Where difficulty is encountered in locating the Vehicle Identification Number it is the responsibility of the applicant to establish the location of this information on the vehicle.


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    #69
    kona
    Registered Users Posts: 7,525 ✭✭✭kona


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    IIRC the issue is location rather than them being missing altogether. The Scenic is one that's come up a few time I think but ours has passed every time so it must be in one of the more obvious locations. I'm sure Renault has a list of the places they stamp but the NCT either hasn't been given the list or looked for it.

    Well if nct tester can't find it, he's not doing his job, he's testing the car every car is stamped, so he can't just say **** this and fail the car because he either hasn't the relevant info to hand or is just plain lazy.

    This is my point. He could fail a perfectly roadworthy car unfairly. In know it's only a visual, but most people would have to pay a garage to find the stamp or say where it is.

    Unless you have to ability to test every single car to the relevant standard , don't have things in the test that can cause a FAIL for no reason, ADVISORY would be adequate.

    If the vin plate , engine no and all the other info matches it should be acceptable.


    Another example say the area stamped was cut out and replaced due to corrosion?


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    #70
    funnights74
    Registered Users Posts: 1,952 ✭✭✭funnights74


    Stella Virgo wrote: »
    the likes of of you get up everyone's hole with your stupidity. you go out and buy a pile, for a grand cash.believe everything that your told like a gullible fool. then AFTER :pac: getting the car, put it up on the rack and find loads of problems, how many ****ing times do the likes of you need to be told to inspect the car BEFORE you buy it. its everybody's fault except your own.....:rolleyes::pac::pac:

    Fair point, but rather crudely put.


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    #71
    kona
    Registered Users Posts: 7,525 ✭✭✭kona


    slimjimmc wrote: »
    They are not required to check engine number and glass etching is no proof of anything really. The only thing they are required to check is the VIN (usually the windscreen or chassis plate/stamp).
    l
    The windscreen isn't acceptable.
    slimjimmc wrote: »
    If they can't find the VIN it's up to you to locate it, in the meantime they'll probably still do the test but can't issue a cert until you can show them the mark.
    l
    Rubbish if they can't perform a requirement of the test they should either get the staff who can or buy in manuals/ info that can tell them where the location of stamps are.

    It's not my role as customer to take the tester by the hand to show them how to do their job. The fact it's in the manual is just them covering their ass.

    I'd love to ring a car and send it through just to show what a joke it is.


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    #72
    timmy4u2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭timmy4u2


    porsche959 wrote: »
    Exact same thing happened to me with a Jaguar XJ-S. Passed the NCT no problem but took it to a Jaguar specialist and he said "that car is not roadworthy due to corrosion under the bonnet".
    Corrosion under the bonnet?


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    #73
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    kona wrote: »
    The windscreen isn't acceptable.

    Rubbish if they can't perform a requirement of the test they should either get the staff who can or buy in manuals/ info that can tell them where the location of stamps are.

    It's not my role as customer to take the tester by the hand to show them how to do their job. The fact it's in the manual is just them covering their ass.

    I'd love to ring a car and send it through just to show what a joke it is.

    It's not rubbish, it's there is black and white, read the manual yourself. Actually under the legislation they can refuse to do the test. If the car is a mainstream model available in the EU I agree they should have all details of VIN locations but some cars are not mainstream models or even models available in the EU, they can't be expected to know the VIN locations of every model worldwide.
    And what if the VIN stamp is not where it is supposed to be?

    It's not their job to go hunting for hidden or missing stamps.


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    #74
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    While I do believe it is necessary to have a national car testing facility and for it to be compulsory, i am left frustrated by how the ncts operates. Some of my views:

    The vin absolutely shoukd be checked to make sure they are issuing a cert for the right car. But, as I mentioned earlier, i have put my car 1997 car through the nct a few times now and they only noticed the one digit error late last year. Time ran out on the retest and i booked a fresh test and they disn't mention the vin this time.

    Instead, within a matter of a couple of months, they decided to fail my car on "advanced corrosion" of the brake line (oddly not spotted before and according to two independent mechanics, is only light surface corrosion).

    They also failed my hid lights, which have been there since I bought the car. I now have rubbish standard lights not much better than a key ring torch.

    I also take issue with the window tinting. Some centres seem to ignore it, while others hammer you for it. Factory tinted sun shade is ok, but after market is not! You're allowed to wear Snoop Dogg shades while driving at night, but a sun strip (not one covering half the screen) is not allowed? Joke of a system.

    And many motorists are penalised when they buy a car with an out of date nct. They shouldn't have to receive a short nct because the previous owner didn't/couldn't get the car tested.


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    #75
    kona
    Registered Users Posts: 7,525 ✭✭✭kona


    slimjimmc wrote: »
    It's not rubbish, it's there is black and white, read the manual yourself. Actually under the legislation they can refuse to do the test. If the car is a mainstream model available in the EU I agree they should have all details of VIN locations but some cars are not mainstream models or even models available in the EU, they can't be expected to know the VIN locations of every model worldwide.
    And what if the VIN stamp is not where it is supposed to be?

    It's not their job to go hunting for hidden or missing stamps.

    Well then if it's not their job to look for the stamp then why is it on the test? What's the difference between hunting and looking? The testers descretion?

    They *could* apply common sense if they can't find the stamp but everything else is in order.

    My car was failed on the stamp despite having the vin number on a load of different places. It's clearly the car that's presented, the stamp is in a place that's known, Infact he said that he checked where it was, there's even a mark in the carpet where it is.

    Basically he was failing my car because he was inept.


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    #76
    JohnBoy26
    Registered Users Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭JohnBoy26


    A car with large amounts of corrosion underneath will still pass an nct as long as there is no holes present.


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    #77
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    kona wrote: »
    Well then if it's not their job to look for the stamp then why is it on the test? What's the difference between hunting and looking? The testers descretion?
    I said it's not their job to look for missing or hidden stamps, not just stamps. It's on the test for the reasons already given in this thread.

    Looking= locations known
    hunting = locations unknown

    It's tester's discretion to decide if he can't find it after a reasonable effort. He only has an limited amount of time for the test after all. Many checks rely on a tester's discretion.
    kona wrote: »
    They *could* apply common sense if they can't find the stamp but everything else is in order.

    My car was failed on the stamp despite having the vin number on a load of different places. It's clearly the car that's presented, the stamp is in a place that's known, Infact he said that he checked where it was, there's even a mark in the carpet where it is.

    Basically he was failing my car because he was inept.
    If it should have been well known to him then I'd be inclined to agree with you.


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    #78
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    JohnBoy26 wrote: »
    A car with large amounts of corrosion underneath will still pass an nct as long as there is no holes present.

    No, it depends on where the corrosion is and the extent of decay. Surface rust is acceptable on all body structure.
    See page 56 of the NCT Manual.


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    #79
    porsche959
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭porsche959


    timmy4u2 wrote: »
    Corrosion under the bonnet?

    Sorry, I meant corrosion on the underbody.


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