TD resigns.

MouseTail

Looks like the tip of a seedy iceberg http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/more-girls-coming-forward-accusing-nulty-of-inappropriate-messages-625856.html

SweetPotatoes

MouseTail wrote: »

Looks like the tip of a seedy iceberg http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/more-girls-coming-forward-accusing-nulty-of-inappropriate-messages-625856.html

Maybe the Dail is full of Jimmy Savilles

Sierra Oscar

Popescu wrote: »

Whoever they put forward.

Sinn Féin are quite weak in the constituency, mainly because there is a very strong socialist presence with Joe Higgins and Ruth Coppinger on the council who have the left vote secured.

This is likely to be a contest between FF's David McGuinness, who polled second behind Nulty in the last by-election, and Ruth Coppinger.

Previous results of the 2011 by-election, when Nulty was elected, can be found here.

walshb

SweetPotatoes wrote: »

Maybe the Dail is full of Jimmy Savilles

It was the drink. Looks like he was never off it!

Godge

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Sinn Féin are quite weak in the constituency, mainly because there is a very strong socialist presence with Joe Higgins and Ruth Coppinger on the council who have the left vote secured.

This is likely to be a contest between FF's David McGuinness, who polled second behind Nulty in the last by-election, and Ruth Coppinger.

Previous results of the 2011 by-election, when Nulty was elected, can be found here.

I wouldn't count Donnelly out of it. He will pick up much of the protest vote that went to Nulty.

I cannot see McGuinness winning the bye-election. FF are still much too toxic to pick up transfers after the way they ruined the country. That said, he could get elected in the next general election.

Coppinger has to be favourite.

I wouldn't rule out Coghlan if he runs for FG, otherwise the government parties have no chance.

Sierra Oscar

Godge wrote: »

I wouldn't count Donnelly out of it. He will pick up much of the protest vote that went to Nulty.

And Coppinger won't? Hard to see it to be honest. She is far more established than Donnelly, and a better candidate too.

We keep hearing people say 'don't count SF out of it'. We heard it in the Meath East by-election too, and O'Rourke still managed to poll poorly and below expectation.

Godge wrote: »

I cannot see McGuinness winning the bye-election. FF are still much too toxic to pick up transfers after the way they ruined the country. That said, he could get elected in the next general election.

The by-election really increased David's profile, and he has been steadily building on it throughout the last three years throughout the constituency and not only in his local electoral area.

Eitherway, I am really looking forward to hitting the door steps in Dublin West. David ran a fantastic campaign last time around, and every effort will be made to win back the seat.

Godge

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

And Coppinger won't? Hard to see it to be honest. She is far more established than Donnelly, and a better candidate too.



The by-election really increased David's profile, and he has been steadily building on it throughout the last three years throughout the constituency and not only in his local electoral area.

Eitherway, I am really looking forward to hitting the door steps in Dublin West. David ran a fantastic campaign last time around, and every effort will be made to win back the seat.

McGuinness won't get cross-constituency support. He is strong in his ward but it doesn't travel.

Sierra Oscar

Godge wrote: »

McGuinness won't get cross-constituency support. He is strong in his ward but it doesn't travel.

What are you basing that on? I was tallying the boxes for the by-election, and that analysis couldn't be further from the truth. He had plenty of support outside of his LEA, and I don't see why that would have changed since then.

theKillerBite

Godge wrote: »

McGuinness won't get cross-constituency support. He is strong in his ward but it doesn't travel.

I though McGuinness came across pretty well when he came knocking on my door during the last by-election. I wonder if Eamonn Coghlan will put himself forward as a candidate for FG??

Fr Tod Umptious

theKillerBite wrote: »

When did you last hear about something Patrick Nutty said in the Dail. Pretty much the last I heard of him was when he broke away from the labour party.

Joe Higgins is much quieter this term then during the last govt.

Joe is running out of things to moan about.

The Property Tax has largely been accepted, there is no mass protest against it.
The bond yield is at a record low, indicating that the world markets look on us favourably.
Unemployment is falling
Consumer confidence is up.
Talk of tax cuts and thus a little relief for the working folks in the next budget.

Sure we will see him front and centre when it come to the start of water charges but that will subside soon too.

holyhead

It seems Patrick Nulty has alot of growing up to do sadly. Like all of us mere mortals he has flaws. Unfortunately for him his are now a source of public knowledge. A chronic lack of judgment which suggests its best he is not in any public role sadly. I'm sure he has talent, we all do, but his idea and grasp of what is appropriate appears to be non existent. I hate to see drink being brought into a situation like this as if to say well I was drunk and therefore I have mitigating factors in my favour.

Patrick you are an adult behave like one. If you want respect you need to show it first.

Jolly Red Giant

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Joe is running out of things to moan about.

The Property Tax has largely been accepted, there is no mass protest against it.
The bond yield is at a record low, indicating that the world markets look on us favourably.
Unemployment is falling
Consumer confidence is up.
Talk of tax cuts and thus a little relief for the working folks in the next budget.

Sure we will see him front and centre when it come to the start of water charges but that will subside soon too.

The Property Tax has been rammed down people's throats and there is a lot of anger anger and resentment about it. In my workplace there is a lot more anger about the Property Tax than there was about the Household Charge.

The claim of 'turning the corner' is nonsense - the talk of 'tax cuts' are nonsense - any tax cuts will benefit the rich more than anyone else. At the same time the government will impose water charges that will cost €400-€500 a year per household and then try and follow it up with a health tax to the tune of €1500-€2500 per year per adult. If you seriously think there will be no opposition you are sadly mistaken.

Lastly - there will be widespread opposition to the water charges - the response the Anti-Austerity Alliance is receiving indicates that the anti-water charges campaign will be far more activist based than the Household Charge campaign which was largely a passive boycott.

The government will likely be facing into anywhere between 2-6 by-elections just as the water charge bills begin to drop and the government will lose all the by-elections. Coupled with another austerity budget with €3billion + in cuts, the potential exists for the government to collapse before Christmas.

Phoebas

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

The Property Tax has been rammed down people's throats and there is a lot of anger anger and resentment about it. In my workplace there is a lot more anger about the Property Tax than there was about the Household Charge.

A few days ago, hundreds of thousands of people had this year's property tax taken out of their accounts. And hardly a peep about it. Sure, people don't like taxes, but this one has been widely accepted.

Nor do I see very much opposition to water charges. The CAHWT, who failed on the HHC/Property Tax campaign are quiet on water charges.

Phill Ewinn

Labour are going to be.obliterated in the next election. Makes no difference who does what to whom from now till then.

Jolly Red Giant

Phoebas wrote: »

A few days ago, hundreds of thousands of people had this year's property tax taken out of their accounts. And hardly a peep about it. Sure, people don't like taxes, but this one has been widely accepted.

You are taking lack of a 'peep' to meaning that the working class people have accepted the tax. There is widespread anger at the property tax and particularly the way it was implemented. This will be manifest in the local elections.

Phoebas wrote: »

Nor do I see very much opposition to water charges. The CAHWT, who failed on the HHC/Property Tax campaign are quiet on water charges.

The campaign against the Household Charge was a major success - a million households boycotted it. It forced the government to adopt one of the most repressive financial measures every introduced in this country to ram the property tax down people's throats.

The government want to impose water charges in a further effort to shift responsibility for the crisis from the rich elites onto the shoulders of working class people and in the process privatise the water service. The government tried to impose water charges in the past and were defeated by a mass campaign of opposition. The government cannot impose the same repressive financial measures that they used with the property tax to collect water charges. There have been dozens (if not hundreds at this stage) of organising meetings held all over the country and there is going to be a major campaign established around the country boycotting the water charges. Unlike the HHC boycott which was largely passive - the anti-water charges campaign will require the active participation of campaigners to ensure the success of the campaign. Furthermore, such a campaign has the potential to develop into a much wider campaign against austerity and the future imposition of a health tax. The class war currently being waged by the ruling elites is far from over - working class people will win some battles and will lose others - but they conflict will not end - and it will not end because the ruling elites will not stop. We are in the age of austerity and a declining world economy - the ruling elites have no option from their perspective - and working class people have no option but to fightback.

COYW

martinn123 wrote: »

Suppose he qualifies for a severance package, and a pension,

Bty, didn't he resign from something before?

Yes, the Labour party. I remember seeing him on the VB show prior to his election and he came across as a very naive man. He thought he was going to go into the Dail and stand up for the common man, ..... Typical left wing idealistic nonsense.

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

Labour are going to be.obliterated in the next election. Makes no difference who does what to whom from now till then.

Yep, the next Green Party. Baring a political miracle they will get destroyed.

ThisRegard

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

The campaign against the Household Charge was a major success - a million households boycotted it.

Now there's an exaggeration if ever there was one. And why are you making it as a class issue ?

Phoebas

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

The campaign against the Household Charge was a major success

Of course it was - sure isn't the HHC gone now!

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

[...]there is going to be a major campaign established around the country boycotting the water charges.[...]

I've heard it all before - "this time it'll be different".

Jolly Red Giant

ThisRegard wrote: »

Now there's an exaggeration if ever there was one. And why are you making it as a class issue ?

The numbers came from the Dept of the Environment - and it is a class issue - the property tax is a tax that is imposed disproportionally on working class people.

Since austerity began in 2008 90% of the population have suffered a decline in their living standards - during the same period the richest 10% have seen an increase in their wealth. If austerity is not a class issue then what the hell is it?

Phoebas wrote: »

I've heard it all before - "this time it'll be different".

You seem to forget that water charges were defeated in the past - a mass campaign of opposition forced the government to abandon water charges on a nationwide basis in 1996.

ThisRegard

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

You seem to forget that water charges were defeated in the past - a mass campaign of opposition forced the government to abandon water charges on a nationwide basis in 1996.

Fair enough, let them abolish the water charges. In return, the Austerity Classes will have to have their social allowances and tax credits cut to make up the shortfall.

Jolly Red Giant

ThisRegard wrote: »

Fair enough, let them abolish the water charges. In return, the Austerity Classes will have to have their social allowances and tax credits cut to make up the shortfall.

That is your view - an alternative - a 0.5% tax on all wealth over €1million would raise more than water charges (or a 2.5% tax the richest 4 people on their increased wealth since the crash)

Austerity is a policy of the ruling elites (designed to protect their own power and wealth).

Phoebas

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

You seem to forget that water charges were defeated in the past - a mass campaign of opposition forced the government to abandon water charges on a nationwide basis in 1996.

You really think that because something happened in very different circumstances almost 20 years ago that something else is bound to happen now? That doesn't make any sense.

The facts are that there isn't substantial opposition to the water charges evidenced by the lack of any sizable campaign against them. The most I think you could hope for is some concession on the free allowance or a more generous exemption regime, or, at best, a short deferral.
But, if you think they can be defeated, I think you're dreaming.

Phoebas

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

That is your view - an alternative - a 0.5% tax on all wealth over €1million would raise more than water charges.

That requires:
1. SF getting into power at the next election.
2. Them repealing a charge that is already in place.
3. Their coalition partners agreeing to this.
4. The numbers not being complete nonsense.
5. Somehow, there not being a flight of capital out of the country to avoid the tax.

tayto lover

Phoebas wrote: »

A few days ago, hundreds of thousands of people had this year's property tax taken out of their accounts. And hardly a peep about it. Sure, people don't like taxes, but this one has been widely accepted.

Nor do I see very much opposition to water charges. The CAHWT, who failed on the HHC/Property Tax campaign are quiet on water charges.

How has it been accepted? That's laughable.
It was forced on them by an uncaring Govt in order to bail out their gambling friends. I haven't heard one person say it was a good idea.

Your party is in serious trouble now Phoebas. Any comments?

oscarBravo

tayto lover wrote: »

How has it been accepted? That's laughable.
It was forced on them by an uncaring Govt in order to bail out their gambling friends. I haven't heard one person say it was a good idea.

When was the last time you heard someone faced with a new or increased tax say it was a good idea?

tayto lover

oscarBravo wrote: »

When was the last time you heard someone faced with a new or increased tax say it was a good idea?

Pheobas was the last.

Jolly Red Giant

Phoebas wrote: »

You really think that because something happened in very different circumstances almost 20 years ago that something else is bound to happen now? That doesn't make any sense.

Of course it will not be the same - I was responding to the suggestion that there will be no opposition to water charges - I pointed out that there was the last time and it was defeated.

Phoebas wrote: »

The facts are that there isn't substantial opposition to the water charges evidenced by the lack of any sizable campaign against them.

water charges have yet to be imposed - the bills are due to be sent in October for charges due in 2015. What is surprising is that there has been so much progress made in building campaign groups before the bills have even landed on the hall carpet.

Phoebas wrote: »

The most I think you could hope for is some concession on the free allowance or a more generous exemption regime, or, at best, a short deferral.

That would be a limited benefit - that the neo-liberals would withdraw at the first available opportunity.

Phoebas wrote: »

But, if you think they can be defeated, I think you're dreaming.

That is your contention - I have never claimed that an anti-water charges campaign would defeat the water charges that the current government are attempting to implement. What I have stated is that water charges were defeated in the past and that there will be a major battle between the pro-austerity parties and neo-liberals on one side and working class people on the other.

Take note - it was the previous water charges campaign that resulted in the defeat of the rainbow government in the general election - and the anti-water charges campaign could well bring down the present government as well.

Jolly Red Giant

Phoebas wrote: »

That requires:
1. SF getting into power at the next election.

That is not accurate - governments implement policies under public pressure

Phoebas wrote: »

2. Them repealing a charge that is already in place.

Again governments repeal unpopular measures as a result of public pressure (and there is a long list of reversals by the government as mass public campaigns

Phoebas wrote: »

3. Their coalition partners agreeing to this.

see above

Phoebas wrote: »

4. The numbers not being complete nonsense.

Lets be clear - Ireland is a wealth country - the wealth is concentrated in a very small number of very wealthy people - the political elites represent and defend the interests of the rich. There is no need for austerity - it is a decision by the elites to impose austerity on working class people. Austerity is not necessary and as long as working class people let the elites away with it they will keep implementing it.

Phoebas wrote: »

5. Somehow, there not being a flight of capital out of the country to avoid the tax.

Yea -yea - we can't tax the rich because they will take their money away - so we should let them blackmail us into letting them massively increase their wealth while screwing the remaining 90% of the population. Furthermore - the reality is that the elites have already moved out what they can - and there is still a massive amount of wealth that is not in moveable liquid assets.

Godge

Phoebas wrote: »

A few days ago, hundreds of thousands of people had this year's property tax taken out of their accounts. And hardly a peep about it. Sure, people don't like taxes, but this one has been widely accepted.

Nor do I see very much opposition to water charges. The CAHWT, who failed on the HHC/Property Tax campaign are quiet on water charges.

Agreed, everyone is paying up.

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

The numbers came from the Dept of the Environment - and it is a class issue - the property tax is a tax that is imposed disproportionally on working class people.

Real working class people don't own property, they are too poor and rent local authority housing or from private landlords.

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Since austerity began in 2008 90% of the population have suffered a decline in their living standards - during the same period the richest 10% have seen an increase in their wealth. If austerity is not a class issue then what the hell is it?

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

That is your view - an alternative - a 0.5% tax on all wealth over €1million would raise more than water charges (or a 2.5% tax the richest 4 people on their increased wealth since the crash)

Austerity is a policy of the ruling elites (designed to protect their own power and wealth).

There is only one way of changing wealth distribution.

Reduce but preferably eliminate income tax, increase property tax, introduce land tax, tax inheritance and eliminate VAT exemptions, including those for small business. Essentially everyone must work and earn money, which they then get to keep.

tayto lover wrote: »

How has it been accepted? That's laughable.
It was forced on them by an uncaring Govt in order to bail out their gambling friends. I haven't heard one person say it was a good idea.

Your party is in serious trouble now Phoebas. Any comments?

Accepted is not the same as welcomed. We have gone over this many times before.

Jolly Red Giant

Godge wrote: »

Agreed, everyone is paying up.

And therefore everyone supports it :rolleyes:

Godge wrote: »

Real working class people don't own property, they are too poor and rent local authority housing or from private landlords.

Cr*p - 90% of the population on this island are working class people

Godge wrote: »

There is only one way of changing wealth distribution.

Reduce but preferably eliminate income tax, increase property tax, introduce land tax, tax inheritance and eliminate VAT exemptions, including those for small business. Essentially everyone must work and earn money, which they then get to keep.

Love the free-market vibe - the only solution to income inequality (and more importantly bring an end to the boom/bust cyclical crisis of capitalism) is a democratically planned socialised economy.

Godge wrote: »

Accepted is not the same as welcomed. We have gone over this many times before.

You better believe it - and furthermore - the government claims that the economy has 'turned the corner' (which it hasn't) could actually provoke increased opposition to austerity. They will demand to know if they economy is getting better while with the government be cutting another €3billion in October's budget and imposing increased property tax, imposing water charges of up to €500 and planning on imposing a health tax that will cost between €1500-€3000 per adult - all of which will drive hundreds of thousands more people into severe poverty.

Phoebas

tayto lover wrote: »

Pheobas was the last.

�� From this morning:

Phoebas wrote: »

Sure, people don't like taxes, but this one has been widely accepted.

Taxes unfortunately are inevitable. Since we have to have them, we may as well get the mix right. I look forward to a reduction in income taxes in a forthcoming budget, should the recovery continue.

Jolly Red Giant

Phoebas wrote: »

Taxes unfortunately are inevitable. Since we have to have them, we may as well get the mix right. I look forward to a reduction in income taxes in a forthcoming budget, should the recovery continue.

Income tax cuts that will disproportionally benefit higher earners while at the same time imposing more regressive charges and taxes and implementing more massive cuts in public services that will have a significant impact on the lives of working class people.

You can fool some of the people all the time - all of the people some of the time - but the time for this government is up - they are fooling no one anymore with the little stunts.

tayto lover

Phoebas wrote: »

�� From this morning:

Taxes unfortunately are inevitable. Since we have to have them, we may as well get the mix right. I look forward to a reduction in income taxes in a forthcoming budget, should the recovery continue.

There sure is no sign of a recovery around the north-east.
Dundalk is like a ghost town. Two more large outlets closed at the weekend and more to follow. Don't believe all the stuff they feed you Pheobas. Seriously.

Jolly Red Giant

Well its been interesting this evening people - but I'm off to our weekly Anti-Austerity Alliance activists meeting which will be attended by about 50 people where we will continue planning our election campaign and discuss the building of our anti-water charges campaign. Every week new activists are coming on board - and this week will not be any different.

ThisRegard

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Love the free-market vibe - the only solution to income inequality (and more importantly bring an end to the boom/bust cyclical crisis of capitalism) is a democratically planned socialised economy.

And what madness would that be? Someone who spends years in college or building up their business from the ground up shares their wealth with the lazy bastard around the corner who sits in his jocks all day drinking cheap beer?

ThisRegard

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Well its been interesting this evening people - but I'm off to our weekly Anti-Austerity Alliance activists meeting which will be attended by about 50 people where we will continue planning our election campaign and discuss the building of our anti-water charges campaign. Every week new activists are coming on board - and this week will not be any different.

50 people is hardly a groundswell of support is it?

Phoebas

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Well its been interesting this evening people - but I'm off to our weekly Anti-Austerity Alliance activists meeting which will be attended by about 50 people where we will continue planning our election campaign and discuss the building of our anti-water charges campaign. Every week new activists are coming on board - and this week will not be any different.

Good luck with it. I can't say I agree with what you're after, but I've got to admire people who actually go out and do something.

tayto lover

ThisRegard wrote: »

50 people is hardly a groundswell of support is it?

It's a very good start. Hope it gets much larger.

Jolly Red Giant

ThisRegard wrote: »

50 people is hardly a groundswell of support is it?

I was waiting for this comment - 50 activists with a wider layer of canvassers and a wider leafleting network outside of that. The reality is that in our area we have more people involved in the Anti-Austerity Alliance election campaign than FF, FG and SF and far more than the LP (who have practically nobody). These 50 people will form the basis of the our local anti-water charges campaign acting as organisers involving a far wider layer in campaigning against this regressive tax.

tayto lover wrote: »

It's a very good start. Hope it gets much larger.

That's the plan -

We ran an interesting exercise at the start of the meeting - AAA activists are currently trying to raise sponsorship for the AAA 5Km Run Against Austerity in three weeks - everyone at the meeting was asked to send ten text messages to people on their phone contact list who they had not previously asked to sponsor individuals taking part in the 5K run - by the end of the meeting the replies (with about a 20% response) had already pledged significant sums of money for the campaign and several people indicated they would take sponsorship cards and raise more. We will be following this up in the next couple of days to ensure the money is collected and sponsorship cards are given out and expect to raise significantly more from this simple exercise when it is complete.

ThisRegard wrote: »

And what madness would that be? Someone who spends years in college or building up their business from the ground up shares their wealth with the lazy bastard around the corner who sits in his jocks all day drinking cheap beer?

Yes indeed - the only people who work hard are the rich - everyone else of a welfare sponging bum.

The reality is that the overwhelming majority of the rich are born with silver spoons in their mouths - never do a real days work in their lives and make their money from exploiting the vast majority of the population with low pay, poor working conditions etc - and pay diddly-squat tax in the process (see Google, Apple, Amazon etc as the prime example).

ThisRegard

Good to see austerity isn't that bad after all with all the donations of significant sums of cash rolling in. Things really are on the up.

Your last paragraph is laughable though considering all of those companies you mention were all startups and not as a result of family dynasties and are not exactly known for terrible working conditions, the opposite in fact (unless you happen to fulfill orders on the floor for Amazon)

Jolly Red Giant

ThisRegard wrote: »

Good to see austerity isn't that bad after all with all the donations of significant sums of cash rolling in. Things really are on the up.

You would be surprised the sacrifices people will make when the see the opportunity to fight for their class interests.

ThisRegard wrote: »

Your last paragraph is laughable though considering all of those companies you mention were all startups and not as a result of family dynasties and are not exactly known for terrible working conditions, the opposite in fact (unless you happen to fulfill orders on the floor for Amazon)

Yes indeed - working on the shop floor at Amazon. As for Google and Apple - clearly you are unaware of the wage-fixing cartels that both companies have been involved in which ultimately involved dozens of high-tech companies and artificially suppressed the wages of more than 1 million workers in the USA alone.

You are using three companies that are paying practically no tax in this country despite making €billions in profits and exploiting thousands of workers in the process as a justification for a rubbish argument.

Fr Tod Umptious

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

The numbers came from the Dept of the Environment - and it is a class issue - the property tax is a tax that is imposed disproportionally on working class people.

Explain the bit in bold please.

I thought it would affect property owners more than any else.

There was a survey mm last year, and I posted about it on the big LPT thread here, that said that most of Irish's people's wealth is in property.
Thus if you tax property then you are taxing wealth

ThisRegard

You've still to tell us how the wealth gets shared in your democratically elected socialist utopia?

Jolly Red Giant

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Explain the bit in bold please.

I thought it would affect property owners more than any else.

There was a survey mm last year, and I posted about it on the big LPT thread here, that said that most of Irish's people's wealth is in property.
Thus if you tax property then you are taxing wealth

1. For 90% of the population the only 'wealth' that someone has is their home. In terms of accessible wealth someone's home is not wealth – if you 'liquidate' you home you still need somewhere to live.
2. The tax is not based on ability to pay. Someone earning €20K a year will have far greater difficulty paying a small property tax than someone on €200K a slightly larger one.

I'll tell you a little story that specifically demonstrates the nature of the property tax. Near where I live there is an apartment complex of approximately 400 apartments. The building of the apartments began in the late 1990s. One landlord owns approximately 150 of these apartments. There are approximately 50 apartments empty that were never sold and were taken over by NAMA when the developer went bust 4-5 years ago. The landlord has never paid a penny in tax on the rent because the apartments were bought under section 23s. There is a shortage of accommodation in the town – NAMA will not drop the price of the apartments to an affordable level for young couples (the apartments are available for approx. €90K but are only worth about €60K and the going rent is €600 per month but should be closer to €450-€500) and will not release the apartments for rent, thereby keeping the apartment prices and the rents artificially high. This is being done primarily to protect the interests of the large landlords. Last year, this large landlord in the apartment complex paid in the region of €37,000 in property tax and NPPR. This year the landlord paid about €13,500 in property tax – making a saving of €23,500 on their property tax bill. Way to go in implementing a 'fair' tax.

An emergency 5% wealth tax on all wealth over €1million would raise €3billion and would be less than the increase in wealth of the billion/millionaires last year.

Jolly Red Giant

ThisRegard wrote: »

You've still to tell us how the wealth gets shared in your democratically elected socialist utopia?

Who is talking about a 'utopia' - the utopian idea is the belief that anyone in a capitalist society can become wealthy if they adopt the dog-eat-dog philosophy of the anarchy of the market.

Democratic planning in a socialised economy is not about primarily sharing wealth (although there is an element of that in it) - it is about wealth creation. The capitalist system is a system of crisis that inevitably engages in a boom/bust cycle that brings misery to billions of people on the planet and protects the interests of a tiny proportion of the population who prey on the fears and vulnerabilities of the population. Socialism is not about creating a utopian society - such a thing is impossible - it is about creating a society where the driving force in society is based on cooperation - not on stepping on others to climb the corporate ladder. The planet has enough wealth to adequately provide to every individual on the planet, to prevent starvation, exploitation and poverty - but that cannot happen while a tiny proportion of the population control the political and economic levers of society.

norrie rugger

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Joe Higgins plays an important role intervening in Dail debates (you can find videos of his contributions on his website.

You can also find a record of his Dail contributions here -
http://www.kildarestreet.com/td/joe_higgins/dublin_west

Final point - Joe Higgins has played an enormous role building opposition to austerity and over the past few months building the AAA. He has spoken at dozens of meetings all over the country and has spent a considerable amount of time canvassing for AAA candidates over the same period.

E.g. Joe Higgins spoke at a Socialist Party public meeting in Limerick attended by more than 120 people the weekend before last and then canvassed for AAA candidates the following day -



Yesterday Joe Higgins was among the contributors at a very successful conference in Dublin on building opposition to austerity.

What has he actually achieved though?

Jolly Red Giant

norrie rugger wrote: »

What has he actually achieved though?

A hell of a lot more than most TDs recently - he has assisted communities all over the country in beginning the process of building campaign groups against the water tax and wider austerity in society.

What has Alan Shatter achieved recently?

Godge

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Who is talking about a 'utopia' - the utopian idea is the belief that anyone in a capitalist society can become wealthy if they adopt the dog-eat-dog philosophy of the anarchy of the market.

Democratic planning in a socialised economy is not about primarily sharing wealth (although there is an element of that in it) - it is about wealth creation. The capitalist system is a system of crisis that inevitably engages in a boom/bust cycle that brings misery to billions of people on the planet and protects the interests of a tiny proportion of the population who prey on the fears and vulnerabilities of the population. Socialism is not about creating a utopian society - such a thing is impossible - it is about creating a society where the driving force in society is based on cooperation - not on stepping on others to climb the corporate ladder. The planet has enough wealth to adequately provide to every individual on the planet, to prevent starvation, exploitation and poverty - but that cannot happen while a tiny proportion of the population control the political and economic levers of society.

One of the big failures of socialism is that it very quickly forgets about the people at the bottom and concentrates on those in the middle who are actually relatively well-off.

Ireland is one of the best examples of this. The property tax is the most socialist tax ever introduced in Ireland because those at the bottom - homeless, renting, local authority etc. - do not pay it. Yet we have many so-called socialists opposing it.

ThisRegard

Godge wrote: »

Yet we have many so-called socialists opposing it.

Yet in other countries socialists advocate it.

Jolly Red Giant

Godge wrote: »

Ireland is one of the best examples of this. The property tax is the most socialist tax ever introduced in Ireland because those at the bottom - homeless, renting, local authority etc. - do not pay it. Yet we have many so-called socialists opposing it.

1. The implication is that socialists do not campaign to end homelessness - this is utter nonsense - it is the neo-liberal elites that cause and perpetrate homelessness
2. most tenants have had the property tax passed onto them with rent increases
3. local authorities have the authority to pass on the property tax to their tenants, cut back on other councils services or a combination of both - either way tenants suffer through increased rents or worsening services.

The Anti-Austerity Alliance campaigning against homelessness and the growing problem of families losing their homes because of cutbacks in rent allowance -

http://antiausterityalliance.ie/2014/03/protest-rent-controls-now/

http://antiausterityalliance.ie/2014/03/homeless-families-protest-dail-debate/

http://antiausterityalliance.ie/2014/03/protest-marie-antoinette-attitude-towards-homeless/