Ebola virus outbreak

ProfessorPlum

littlemac1980 wrote: »

I'd be inclined to say as soon as there is a confirmed case in Ireland take precautions not to expose yourself unnecessarily to any risk of infection.

If there are more than one case its up to yourself - but I for one will probably take my chances with a few books and some quality home time until I see what happens.

Unfortunately, I'm not a pessimistic person, but I tend to agree with most posters here that suggest that Ireland's health system is totally incapable of dealing with this Virus.

The cynic in me would even go so far as to suggest that a case of Ebola here would be exactly what the Unions have been waiting for and you'd see strikes of Nurses and Junior doctors all over the place. Kind of like the Train Strike for All-Ireland weekend - a good opportunity to put a gun to the governments head and get a pay rise.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying littlemac, but above is grossly unfair. Nurses and doctors here have never refused to treat emergent patients during industrial disputes, and many, especially doctors, work far in excess of their contracted hours. They will be the ones most exposed on the front lines, along with paramedics and other workers in the sector, and they deserve our respect and support.

Sclosages

Streetwalker wrote: »

No need for panic but it is worrying. I simply don't believe the "it isn't airborne" argument at this stage. That's not to say if you are in the same room as someone who has it you will catch it but yeah if they are couching/sneezing beside you I think you are in trouble.

Problem is worldwide I see no leadership in taking on the problem.

I'm with you on this one. To me, 'airborne' is snot flying through the air at me! Might not be the medical definition, but mucus certainly seems to be a carrier!

javagal

Australia have a fair system i think. Anyone who has been anywhere near an ebola patient/victim must isolate themselves at home alone for 21 days on returning home and they must constantly check their temperature.
Reduces the risk of spreading.

BeerWolf

Sclosages wrote: »

I expect Ireland will have grade 1 then lol.

Our mode of defence, procedural face masks.

FullblownRose

Spring Onion wrote: »

Yes of course - let's have a retrospective in 2015 and see who was over-hyping the situation. To be honest I find this thread absolutely fascinating. There is a thesis here for sure!
Some lad just suggested that the nurses and doctors will strike for more money to deal with ebola. You cant make this stuff up, well actually most of you can.

I find the discussion fascinating too. Possibly not from the same angle as you, but I think those who are quickest to repudiate the suggestion any disease might spread in unforseen ways, and insist that it isn't sensible to discuss these ideas, are really a bit frightened and overcompensating by trying to appear more detatched than they really feel. I have seen people all but suggest a media moratorium on coverage on Ebola.

The other extreme is the kind of people, like some friends I have on my Facebook page, who almost seem to be desperately hoping it will escalate much further.

Zillah

NauP wrote: »

Heading to Morocco via Heathrow in early November. Not sure whether to cancel or not......

lol are you serious?

Dublin to Morocco: 2000km
Morocco to Liberia: 3000km

Dublin is closer to Moscow than Morocco is to Liberia.

Go on holidays.

Sclosages

BeerWolf wrote: »

Our mode of defence, procedural face masks.

And gloves! We're great with the gloves.
And how could I forget the alcohol rub thing you must put on when entering a hospital lmao. Protects against everything that stuff does!

Sclosages

I might just imbibe myself with alcohol.

Streetwalker

Anyway hope they start taking it more seriously most nations aren't even checking for Ebola at ports and airports which is crazy stuff. This thing has the capacity to bring the world financial system to a halt if it spreads. People won't go into their workplaces, shops will run empty, banks will have no cash, hospitals will be no go zones and if you have another problem will you go to a hospital to get it sorted and risk an infection? Pubs, restaurants, social events, concerts etc...all done for in the short term. All this of course is worst case scenario but why take the risk and not at least screen people at airports at the very least?

Streetwalker

FullblownRose wrote: »

I find the discussion fascinating too. Possibly not from the same angle as you, but I think those who are quickest to repudiate the suggestion any disease might spread in unforseen ways, and insist that it isn't sensible to discuss these ideas, are really a bit frightened and overcompensating by trying to appear more detatched than they really feel. I have seen people all but suggest a media moratorium on coverage on Ebola.

The other extreme is the kind of people, like some friends I have on my Facebook page, who almost seem to be desperately hoping it will escalate much further.

Have to say I don't think ive meet or talked to a single person who is hoping it will escalate. You have some strange friends pal.

Sclosages

Streetwalker wrote: »

Anyway hope they start taking it more seriously most nations aren't even checking for Ebola at ports and airports which is crazy stuff. This thing has the capacity to bring the world financial system to a halt if it spreads. People won't go into their workplaces, shops will run empty, banks will have no cash, hospitals will be no go zones and if you have another problem will you go to a hospital to get it sorted and risk an infection? Pubs, restaurants, social events, concerts etc...all done for in the short term. All this of course is worst case scenario but why take the risk and not at least screen people at airports at the very least?

You lived through the foot and mouth disease debacle didn't you?

Akrasia

Sclosages wrote: »

I expect Ireland will have grade 1 then lol.

We have expired iodine tablets

Sclosages

Akrasia wrote: »

We have expired iodine tablets

I can't find mine lol. I have latex gloves though. And I ain't afraid to use 'em!

littlemac1980

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

I agree with a lot of what you're saying littlemac, but above is grossly unfair. Nurses and doctors here have never refused to treat emergent patients during industrial disputes, and many, especially doctors, work far in excess of their contracted hours. They will be the ones most exposed on the front lines, along with paramedics and other workers in the sector, and they deserve our respect and support.

That's fair enough - it wasn't intended to be a dig at the Frontline workers - they have taken huge hits in wages over the last few years and I actually believe they should be paid more to deal with a potential outbreak here (more than a few isolated cases) - were such to occur.

The comment was intended to be critical of the Unions and their approach to "times of need", but alas I probably worded my comment a little unfairly toward the actual nurses and doctors themselves.

FullblownRose

Streetwalker wrote: »

Have to say I don't think ive meet or talked to a single person who is hoping it will escalate. You have some strange friends pal.

Nobody has expressed that hope. Some people are just confusing reality with the walking dead. I do know some strange people, that is true.

Spring Onion

FullblownRose wrote: »

Nobody has expressed that hope. Some people are just confusing reality with the walking dead.

post #384

FullblownRose

Spring Onion wrote: »

post #384

Hmm. Ok!

Well, there were a few comments on Facebook about it being sent as a form of divine retribution, or that a handy consequence of it would be a population cull that might alleviate the strain on the planets resources.

Akrasia

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Norovirus isn't airborne except for vomit particulates afaik yet it spreads like wildfire. I'd imagine it's comparable in this sense for ebola.

The main transmission of Norovirus is people not washing their hands properly after using the toilet. People catch it from door handles and shaking hands etc

Ebola isn't as virulent as norovirus, because Norovirus is contagous before symptoms present themselves, so people can spread the disease before they know they have it.

According to the CDC Ebola is only contagous while there are symptoms, and at the early stages, only through bodily fluids like blood and vomit. by the time it's infectious through sweat urine saliva etc, the symptoms are so severe that anyone experiencing them will be unlikely to be out in public.

Also, the evidence is that ebola can not survive on dry surfaces. Hospital wards have taken swabs on bed rails and door in wards treating ebola patients, and found no evidence of the ebola virus living on any of them
http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/hcp/environmental-infection-control-in-hospitals.html

Sclosages

How did the cleaner contract it then?

Smiles35

Sclosages wrote: »

How did the cleaner contract it then?

Something about touching her suit.

littlemac1980

According to the RTE report the nurse in Spain had actually began to feel ill on 30.09.2014 but wasn't admitted to the hospital until - 06.10.2014. It seems she requested to be tested 3 times for Ebola (and presumably was refused).

Also it appears she was on holiday in Madrid - until now I don't believe anyone reported on the location of her holiday.

Akrasia

Sclosages wrote: »

How did the cleaner contract it then?

Soiled bedding/clothing probably.

Cleaning up after the ebola victim is just as dangerous as treating him/her.

FullblownRose

Akrasia wrote: »

The main transmission of Norovirus is people not washing their hands properly after using the toilet. People catch it from door handles and shaking hands etc

Ebola isn't as virulent as norovirus, because Norovirus is contagous before symptoms present themselves, so people can spread the disease before they know they have it.

According to the CDC Ebola is only contagous while there are symptoms, and at the early stages, only through bodily fluids like blood and vomit. by the time it's infectious through sweat urine saliva etc, the symptoms are so severe that anyone experiencing them will be unlikely to be out in public.

Also, the evidence is that ebola can not survive on dry surfaces. Hospital wards have taken swabs on bed rails and door in wards treating ebola patients, and found no evidence of the ebola virus living on any of them
http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/hcp/environmental-infection-control-in-hospitals.html

there's some study circulating that says it will remain active on dry surfaces including plastic, for about an hour and a half.

This adresses the question of the incubation period and the point where someone becomes infectious:

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ebola-questions-20141007-story.html#page=2

littlemac1980

littlemac1980 wrote: »

According to the RTE report the nurse in Spain had actually began to feel ill on 30.09.2014 but wasn't admitted to the hospital until - 06.10.2014. It seems she requested to be tested 3 times for Ebola (and presumably was refused).

Also it appears she was on holiday in Madrid - until now I don't believe anyone reported on the location of her holiday.

Madrid is the third largest metropolitan area in the EU and has a population density of 5,390/km2 according to wikipedia.

Wikipedia lists the population density of Liberia as 35.5/km2

Obviously its not possible to properly compare population densities of cities with entire countries and areas of Liberia would be very sparsley populated as well as very much more densely populated just as certain areas of Spain would likewise be sparsely populated.

But the Nurse wasn't in a sparsely populated area on holiday, she was in Madrid and it goes without saying that potential contagion in a city of Madrid's size and population density is something that should be taken very seriously.

ProfessorPlum

Streetwalker wrote: »

Anyway hope they start taking it more seriously most nations aren't even checking for Ebola at ports and airports which is crazy stuff. This thing has the capacity to bring the world financial system to a halt if it spreads. People won't go into their workplaces, shops will run empty, banks will have no cash, hospitals will be no go zones and if you have another problem will you go to a hospital to get it sorted and risk an infection? Pubs, restaurants, social events, concerts etc...all done for in the short term. All this of course is worst case scenario but why take the risk and not at least screen people at airports at the very least?

The WHO believe there would be little to no likelihood of catching cases by arrival fever screening. The money it would cost (waste) is better spent elsewhere in the effort.

littlemac1980

FullblownRose wrote: »

there's some study circulating that says it will remain active on dry surfaces including plastic, for about an hour and a half.

This adresses the question of the incubation period and the point where someone becomes infectious:

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ebola-questions-20141007-story.html#page=2

15 hours in darkness according to a report I linked to here previously. (37% remained - I think I recall)

Sclosages

If it gets into Lagos, we be fooked. Nigerians travel to here and the UK frequently. If it's in the UK, it will be here.

Akrasia

There seem to have been serious shortcomings in the systems in place at the Hospital where the Spanish victim was treated

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/09/ebola-outbreak-six-quarantined-in-spain-madrid-hospital-ramos

If there are no more secondary infections from this case, i will be surprised, however, it is good that they are identifying possible cases and isolating them before they can become infectious.

The worrying part in all of this is that western medical services are making the same stupid mistakes that we would expect from under-resourced hospitals in developing countries..

My name is URL

My brother is working out in Ghana atm. He's due home next Saturday. What are the odds that travel restrictions will be in place by then?

Some airline cleaning staff have walked off the job over Ebola concerns at La Guardia airport.


http://7online.com/travel/ebola-concerns-lead-laguardia-workers-to-strike/342991/

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/10/09/plane-cabin-cleaners-strike-at-laguardia-airport/