Ebola virus outbreak

Crane

WakeUp wrote: »

so why dont the pair of you know it alls start your own thread then?

I am not even nearly a know-it-all. That's why I'm seeking out a thread by know-it-alls (or know-nearly-everythings). There is a lack of measured response on this thread; what discussion there is descends into petty squabbling the like of which you are trying to engage me in right now.

WakeUp

Crane wrote: »

I am not even nearly a know-it-all. That's why I'm seeking out a thread by know-it-alls (or know-nearly-everythings). There is a lack of measured response on this thread; what discussion there is descends into petty squabbling the like of which you are trying to engage me in right now.

nah Im just calling you out on your condescending bullsh1t. you and your mate. with your combined 75 post count history or whatever. though stick around. thats if the thread is up to your almighty "clued in" standards.

Canis Lupus

WakeUp wrote: »

nah Im just calling you out on your condescending bullsh1t. you and your mate. with your combined 75 post count history or whatever. though stick around. thats if the thread is up to your almighty "clued in" standards.

I've three times your posts. Is my opinion more valid than yours?

Peist2007

Canis Lupus wrote: »

That's why I used words like potentially and conjecture. There was a failure in equipment or protocol somewhere along the line either way.



Because I've no time to listen to how 'the man' is lying to us. That's what the CT forum is for.

"the man" ? Why does every counter argument have to reference conspiracy theories in order to discredit it? There are people catching this disease wearing full protective gear. You admit you have no idea how that nurse got it and are speciulating. I think it is reasonable to ask questions seeing how the line used is that Ebola is difficult to catch. It certainly doesnt seem to be. How do you think we will all fare without protective suits? Sure keep believing what you're told. Will be a lot easier for the authorities if everyone does that.

Peist2007

I am pie wrote: »

I don't think we are talking about "the man" , a term which you have inserted into the discussion, or anyone "lying" , again a fairly emotive term.

It's not beyond the balance of probability that the medical teams working in a myriad of different conditions are still analysing the current epidemic and understanding the transmission method.

It's hardly appropriate for them to publish every unproven suspicion they may have and it's not impossible that post epidemic they may publish discoveries related to the transmission method. In fairness I have yet to see a crystal clear definition of that process and indeed have read a variety of contradicting reports.

Is that really tin foil hat material? I don't believe so and the lack of a concrete definition of the transmission process outside of reposted newspaper articles certainly contributes.

I think people confuse "tin foil hat" with "opposing opinion" - a childish tactic used to discredit.

Peist2007

Canis Lupus wrote: »

But then I wasn't quoting you. I was quoting Peist who said:



and



There's a distinct difference between his and your posts. One is lack of knowledge and the other is intentional misinformation.

Intentional misinformation? Point out where i have intentionally misinformed people. Go on. Anything i have said is my own opinion and i am simply asking questions. You have admitted a few posts up that your "definite" statements on this are you speculating. You're a child.

Peist2007

Canis Lupus wrote: »

I've three times your posts. Is my opinion more valid than yours?

No it isnt because you present it as fact. Spring Onion did the same and was called out on it. Your clear arrogance prevents you from admitting you know as little as the rest of us

WakeUp

*shrugs* like I said I'm no expert but I haven't read anything to suggest it will be the first virus to mutate to airborne so it's not really on my concern radar.

Canis Lupus wrote: »

I've three times your posts. Is my opinion more valid than yours?

stating the thread lacks "intelligence" and isnt "clued in" enough. as those two posters stated that is just condescending boll0x, in my opinion of course. if that is infact what they think of the thread then what are they doing here reading it. on this topic no your opinion isnt more relevant to mine. no more than mine is more valid than yours. Im no expert either.

Canis Lupus

Peist2007 wrote: »

"the man" ? Why does every counter argument have to reference conspiracy theories in order to discredit it? There are people catching this disease wearing full protective gear. You admit you have no idea how that nurse got it and are speciulating. I think it is reasonable to ask questions seeing how the line used is that Ebola is difficult to catch. It certainly doesnt seem to be. How do you think we will all fare without protective suits? Sure keep believing what you're told. Will be a lot easier for the authorities if everyone does that.

Peist2007 wrote: »

I think people confuse "tin foil hat" with "opposing opinion" - a childish tactic used to discredit.

I'll quote you again:

I have a feeling we arent being told the full story re transmission.

and

So i think the view that we are being told the entire truth on this could be viewed as naive in the near future. let's face it, they lie to us about most things, why not this?

There's no ambiguity here with what you said. The 'powers' are intentionally lying to us. Like I said there is a CT forum for that rubbish and is tinfoil hattery, not an opposing opinion.

If you were to suggest like IaP suggested that there might be a lack of knowledge in how the virus transmits I'd be fine with that because hell, it might be true (although I have no particular inclination at this time to not believe the general consensus that has been published already).

WakeUp

Canis Lupus wrote: »

I'll quote you again:

If you were to suggest like IaP suggested that there might be a lack of knowledge in how the virus transmits I'd be fine with that because hell, it might be true (although I have no particular inclination at this time to not believe the general consensus that has been published already).

Do you believe governments are capable of telling lies to the people and withholding information? be it intentionally or because they dont fully understand what is going on. this isnt to say this is what they are doing. but do you believe its possible. or would a government never dream of doing such a thing.

gladrags

Crane wrote: »

Does anyone have any idea where we might read an intelligent and measured forum discussion of this outbreak? On boards.ie or elsewhere? Every few days (as stated above) the airborne, doomsday etc scenarios get rebooted in this thread, perhaps by people just opportunistically clicking on the thread rather than following it properly. Makes for a pretty frustrating read - neither 'side' (pessimistic vs optimistic outcome of the outbreak) gets a proper airing as a result.

http://m.jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/179/Supplement_1/ix.long

Good common sense history of the virus and well sourced.

Peist2007

Canis Lupus wrote: »

I'll quote you again:

and

There's no ambiguity here with what you said. The 'powers' are intentionally lying to us. Like I said there is a CT forum for that rubbish and is tinfoil hattery, not an opposing opinion.

If you were to suggest like IaP suggested that there might be a lack of knowledge in how the virus transmits I'd be fine with that because hell, it might be true (although I have no particular inclination at this time to not believe the general consensus that has been published already).

All of that is said in my own opinion. I am entitled to it. There is no deliberate misinformation as it is presented as an opinion. I then go on to explain what i feel is a reasonable basis for that opinion ie nurses in full protective gear are catching this. It's an opinion. It isnt presented as a fact (as you clearly show above) so you are talking out your arse with "intentionally misinforming" and i think you should acknowledge that.

Canis Lupus

WakeUp wrote: »

stating the thread lacks "intelligence" and isnt "clued in" enough. as those two posters stated that is just condescending boll0x, in my opinion of course. if that is infact what they think of the thread then what are they doing here reading it. on this topic no your opinion isnt more relevant to mine. no more than mine is more valid than yours. Im no expert either.

If you have a problem with what he's saying I guess report it rather than calling him out on his post count was all I was pointing out to you.

WakeUp wrote: »

Do you believe governments are capable of telling lies to the people and withholding information? be it intentionally or because they dont fully understand what is going on. this isnt to say this is what they are doing. but do you believe its possible. or would a government never dream of doing such a thing.

Not even going there so don't bother.

WakeUp

Canis Lupus wrote: »

If you have a problem with what he's saying I guess report it rather than calling him out on his post count was all I was pointing out to you.

thats nice of you to point that out to me are you a mod?. but Id rather not report anyone for anything and prefer to say what I have to say to the poster directly as opposed to that. if thats ok with you.

Not even going there so don't bother.

why arent you going there its a simple question. do you believe governments are capable of telling lies and with holding information be it intentionally or otherwise? not sure why you dont want to go there.

Canis Lupus

Peist2007 wrote: »

All of that is said in my own opinion. I am entitled to it. There is no deliberate misinformation as it is presented as an opinion. I then go on to explain what i feel is a reasonable basis for that opinion ie nurses in full protective gear are catching this. It's an opinion. It isnt presented as a fact (as you clearly show above) so you are talking out your arse with "intentionally misinforming" and i think you should acknowledge that.

But then I wasn't talking about you, I was clearly talking about the government(s). IE the information released by them is either faulty through lack of knowledge (what IaP was suggesting and imo can be perfectly reasonable suggestion) or intentional misinformation (what you were suggesting and is rubbish).

Canis Lupus

WakeUp wrote: »

why arent you going there its a simple question.

*whispers* because I see so many of your posts are in the CT forum and I can't be bothered reading posts about government conspiracies.

ProfessorPlum

WakeUp wrote: »

Do you believe governments are capable of telling lies to the people and withholding information? be it intentionally or because they dont fully understand what is going on. this isnt to say this is what they are doing. but do you believe its possible. or would a government never dream of doing such a thing.

Oh come on! The thing is though, that scientists have this habit of publishing all their work in pesky journals, and encouraging the information they've discovered to being read far and wide. So unless you think it's all part of a massive CT involving the scientific community...

Peist2007

Canis Lupus wrote: »

But then I wasn't talking about you, I was clearly talking about the government(s). IE the information released by them is either faulty through lack of knowledge (what IaP was suggesting and imo can be perfectly reasonable suggestion) or intentional misinformation (what you were suggesting and is rubbish).

Witholding information and deliberately misinforming are two completely separate things

WakeUp

Canis Lupus wrote: »

*whispers* because I see so many of your posts are in the CT forum and I can't be bothered reading posts about government conspiracies.

ah ok, so its back to your default CT ad hominem position. you have it all figured out dont you. good stuff.

WakeUp

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

Oh come on! The thing is though, that scientists have this habit of publishing all their work in pesky journals, and encouraging the information they've discovered to being read far and wide. So unless you think it's all part of a massive CT involving the scientific community...

what do you mean come on. its only a question. are governments capable of telling lies be it intentionally or not. Im not say they are in this instance. Im just asking are they capable of such a thing. Ive never once stated this was a "conspiracy".

Peist2007

Canis Lupus wrote: »

*whispers* because I see so many of your posts are in the CT forum and I can't be bothered reading posts about government conspiracies.

How narrow minded and dismissive. I suppose you scoffed at those that thought the American govt were spying on everyone and told them "you couldnt be bothered with that". Until of course it was reported on your tv and you believed it then :rolleyes:

ceadaoin.

The second person diagnosed with ebola took a flight the day before being diagnosed and passengers on that flight have been asked to contact the CDC. Hopefully the person wasn't symptomatic on the flight, otherwise this could get very bad.

A second Dallas health-care worker has tested positive for Ebola, officials said Wednesday, as they also asked 132 people who flew with that infected woman on a Frontier Airlines flight from Cleveland to Dallas on Monday to call the federal Centers for Disease Control.

Officials also warned that additional cases of the deadly virus at the Dallas hospital where the woman worked is "a very real possibility."

"We have contingencies for more," said Dallas County Judge Clay Jenkins during a briefing on the latest case, of a female employee of Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital who cared for Ebola patient Thomas Eric Duncan.


Robert Alexander | Getty Images
Frontier Airlines planes.
Jenkins said the second infected woman, who was not identified by name or job title, was isolated within 90 minutes of reporting a fever Tuesday. She is the third person diagnosed in the U.S. with Ebola, which is currently epidemic in three West African countries.

The CDC hours later revealed that the newly infected woman had flown on Monday on Frontier Airlines Flight No.1143 from Cleveland to Dallas/Fort Worth. The CDC asked all passengers aboard that flight to call 1-800-232-4632. Frontier Airlines, in its own statement, said passengers who also traveled with the woman on Flight 1142 on Friday from Dallas/Fort Worth to Cleveland should also contact CDC at the same phone number.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102078863

WakeUp

Peist2007 wrote: »

How narrow minded and dismissive. I suppose you scoffed at those that thought the American govt were spying on everyone and told them "you couldnt be bothered with that". Until of course it was reported on your tv and you believed it then :rolleyes:

is all good Peist Canus has this one all worked out. he is on it. nothing to see here.

ProfessorPlum

WakeUp wrote: »

what do you mean come on. its only a question. are governments capable of telling lies be it intentionally or not. Im not say they are in this instance. Im just asking are they capable of such a thing. Ive never once stated this was a "conspiracy".

Sorry - my mistake. You randomly asked a question about weather governments could lie in this thread, but you're asking weather they are in this instance. Ok. gottcha.

Canis Lupus

Peist2007 wrote: »

Witholding information and deliberately misinforming are two completely separate things

No.... no it's not unless you're trying to suggest witholding information is not a deliberate act???

WakeUp wrote: »

ah ok, so its back to your default CT ad hominem position. you have it all figured out dont you. good stuff.

Yah, thanks

josip

The latest carrier in the US flew on a plane with 132 people while infected.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-29632433
(Not sure if this has already been posted, I read the previous 2 pages of squabbling and didn't see anything)

Edit: and while I was reading ceadoin posted...

WakeUp

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

Sorry - my mistake. You randomly asked a question about weather governments could lie in this thread, but you're asking weather they are in this instance. Ok. gottcha.

thats ok Plum no need to apologise but thanks for doing so. all I was asking are they capable of such a thing without stating that they are. nothing more.

ProfessorPlum

WakeUp wrote: »

thats ok Plum no need to apologise but thanks for doing so. all I was asking are they capable of such a thing without stating that they are. nothing more.

That's grand. But do you see how implausible it is that governments have orchestrated a campaign of misinformation regarding the spread of ebola, given almost everything we know about it had been gained by researchers and widely published. Any gaps or errors in our knowledge at this point are due to our lack of experience of this disease, and not a campaign of misinformation.

I am pie

ceadaoin. wrote: »

The second person diagnosed with ebola took a flight the day before being diagnosed and passengers on that flight have been asked to contact the CDC. Hopefully the person wasn't symptomatic on the flight, otherwise this could get very bad.



http://www.cnbc.com/id/102078863

When do we get to start calling for Texas to have it's borders shut?

Interesting to find out how this person contracted the disease? Whether they were front line nursing staff or not.

I am no expert, evidently enough, but I would hope that nursing staff are at least strongly urged not to travel by plane after treating ebola victims. Seems to be a sane enough request.

Perhaps they were cleaning staff or involved with waste disposal. Either way, really need to tighten up on those protocols it would seem.

wexie

I am pie wrote: »

When do we get to start calling for Texas to have it's borders shut?

Plenty of people been calling for Texas to have it's borders shut for years**, I don't think this will make much of a difference.

**both in and outside Texas, for various reasons.