Ebola virus outbreak

Creative Juices

realweirdo wrote: »

Cover ups? Wrong messages? No-one cares about wrong messages. No-one said close off air travel to the other 50 african nations, just the worst affected. We know already this can travel via air travel. The US outbreak shows it only takes a single person to get through to kickoff something potentially big elsewhere. Lets stop air travel out of worst affected countries and then later we can have a great big philosophical debate about the moral rights and wrongs of it. Because ebola doesn't give a sh*t about such debates at the moment.

"We know this can travel via air travel" What cant?
"ebola doesn't give a sh*t about such debates" Love it!

The US outbreak? 1 imported case and healthcare workers who tended him.

Think about it, what does closing the borders and airports do?
It slows down the arrival of medical supplies.
It slows down the arrival of emergency healthcare workers? Would you volunteer if you knew the country was in lockdown?
The foreign emergency healthcare workers are likely to abandon the effort when they hear the airports are being shut.
It send a message to the locals that their country has been abandoned/quarantined and that they should flee to other countries illegally (outside authorised border crossings)
It breeds panic among the governments and the populace.

ProfessorPlum

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

Are you waiting for your Auntie Mavis down the road to go tits up before you start to worry about this?
Ebola is hopelessly out of control in three countries with a combined population of about 20 million people. We could very well already be at a point where the human species will have to learn to live with Ebola constantly in its bloodstream. And, if that is the case, it will inevitably spread and spread and spread.

???

All kinds of crazy.

johnty56

Looking at the TV coverage.. it really is shocking how these countries are being left to deal with such a terrible disease with very little in terms of financial and practical support.

I think people should stop ****ting themselves and start trying to help. What is the best charity to give money to to actually help? What is the best way to help?

Tin Foil Hat

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

???

All kinds of crazy.

Why?

daheff

OK..couple of as (possibly stupid...please forgive me if they are)

Can you contract Ebola more than once ( is survive it first time) or do you become immune?

Can antibodies be 'harvested' from survivors (I think I saw something about this happening)?

Tin Foil Hat

daheff wrote: »

OK..couple of as (possibly stupid...please forgive me if they are)

Can you contract Ebola more than once ( is survive it first time) or do you become immune?

From that strain, yes. There are a few different strains, though.

daheff wrote: »

Can antibodies be 'harvested' from survivors (I think I saw something about this happening)?

Yes, blood transfusions from survivors do seem to help. I heard this on the radio yesterday.

ceadaoin.

daheff wrote: »

OK..couple of as (possibly stupid...please forgive me if they are)

Can you contract Ebola more than once ( is survive it first time) or do you become immune?

Can antibodies be 'harvested' from survivors (I think I saw something about this happening)?

One of the survivors, Dr Kent. Brantly has been donating blood which has been given to a couple of the cases being treated in the US. One of them, the NBC cameraman has recovered. The other is the first nurse who was infected after treating Duncan. They must think it helps if they are doing it. Maybe it helps to kick start the bodies own production of anti bodies?

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/blood-transfusions-ebola-survivor-dr-kent-brantly-patients/story?id=26182136

I think you become immune but only to the particular strain that you were infected with. That's what I've read anyway.

realweirdo

Here is the scale of the problems facing the Liberians.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/16/world/africa/ebola-liberia-overwhelmed/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

And here is the joke of a response from EU countries who still don't get it and probably never will. Once more they have left it to the Americans to shoulder the cost of fighting this, while the Germans go around hailing their great budget surplus.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-29648598

UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said just $100,000 had been given to a UN Ebola trust fund which needed $1bn

realweirdo

Creative Juices wrote: »

"We know this can travel via air travel" What cant?
"ebola doesn't give a sh*t about such debates" Love it!

The US outbreak? 1 imported case and healthcare workers who tended him.

Think about it, what does closing the borders and airports do?
It slows down the arrival of medical supplies.
It slows down the arrival of emergency healthcare workers? Would you volunteer if you knew the country was in lockdown?
The foreign emergency healthcare workers are likely to abandon the effort when they hear the airports are being shut.
It send a message to the locals that their country has been abandoned/quarantined and that they should flee to other countries illegally (outside authorised border crossings)
It breeds panic among the governments and the populace.

I've no problem flying in supplies and aid workers and the like. It's the flying out of people where the problem ultimately lies. Until there is a failsafe method of detecting and stopping someone infected with ebola, then flights should be suspended. I know you don't want to appear like a racist, I can tell that from your posts. At the same time, you have been quick to label others racist, which is unfortunate on your part. Immaturely throwing labels around is unhelpful. The Liberians are not stupid. They know their country is screwed from ebola. Closing down air travel out is not going to suddenly make them panic more. At this stage its a case of trying to contain this disease and curtail the suicidal risks of allowing people fly freely out of the country which is ultimately a recipe for disaster. I don't want to focus on just that however, there's more that needs to be done such as the EU reating this seriously and not outsourcing it as always to the Americans and acting like children needing big brother to help out.
The problem is you keep latching on to the air travel ban in your attempts to label people racist.

ceadaoin.

Canis Lupus wrote: »

According to what I'm read on the news and wiki when he reported to the hospital the first time he was suffering fever, headache and abdominable pain. He wasn't suffering from nausea/vomiting nor diarrhea. This was on a Thursday and all I can see is by Sunday he required an ambulance to get to hospital. Aside from the trip to and from hospital have you any sources to show he was out and about? Most people when sick with a fever, headache and abdominal pain go lie down in bed. I know I do. Either way the powers that be have identified low and high risk contacts and are monitoring them.




Extremely lucky or ebola is not as easy to catch as some people are trying to make out?

EDIT: BTW I do agree that we're all human. Mistakes have been and will continue to be made. Regardless, I just don't think there is any cause for major concern at this time for developed nations.

Apparently the second nurse may have been experiencing symptoms since Friday. So that's someone who was symptomatic but still felt well enough to take 2 flights, visit her family and go wedding dress shopping. That's a lot of potential infections and we will find out in the next few weeks just how contagious she was.

I think the fact that they are removing and replacing the seat covers from the plane and notifying passengers who flew on the next 5 flights on the aircraft indicate that perhaps she was vomiting while on the plane.

http://fox8.com/2014/10/16/cdc-nurse-may-have-had-ebola-symptoms-earlier-than-originally-thought/

AKRON, Ohio — New information received by the CDC Thursday indicates the latest Ebola patient– Amber Vinson– may have experienced symptoms as early as Friday, Oct. 10 — the day she flew into the Cleveland area.

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Yes because those hairs are important. If I wanted to be extra pedantic I would say that I can't seem to find any source that confirms he vomited (other than the one quote) or whether it was cleaned up (which would indicate he did indeed vomit outside). So we have a man who went too and from the hospital and at this stage the only people to develop Ebola are two nurses who treated him during his final bedridden days. Assuming the situation stays the same then I'd have to say the consensus of our respective governments is correct that Ebola poses a low risk to us.

If you want I can pretend to think the government have their heads in the sand and that it will go airborne and that we're all in great danger etc etc but I just don't see the point. They're doing alright, we'll be alright.

He did vomit. There were pics of it being cleaned up a few days after he was admitted to hospital. It's still too soon to know how many people may have been infected.

Creative Juices

realweirdo wrote: »

I've no problem flying in supplies and aid workers and the like. It's the flying out of people where the problem ultimately lies. Until there is a failsafe method of detecting and stopping someone infected with ebola, then flights should be suspended. I know you don't want to appear like a racist, I can tell that from your posts. At the same time, you have been quick to label others racist, which is unfortunate on your part. Immaturely throwing labels around is unhelpful. The Liberians are not stupid. They know their country is screwed from ebola. Closing down air travel out is not going to suddenly make them panic more. At this stage its a case of trying to contain this disease and curtail the suicidal risks of allowing people fly freely out of the country which is ultimately a recipe for disaster. I don't want to focus on just that however, there's more that needs to be done such as the EU reating this seriously and not outsourcing it as always to the Americans and acting like children needing big brother to help out.
The problem is you keep latching on to the air travel ban in your attempts to label people racist.

More waffle. Ok I'll bite, show me the post where I called someone a racist.

For the record, I don't think closing borders is "racist". I think it's just selfish and small minded. I could easily see you asking for the borders/airports in Wales to be closed if they had widespread ebola.

realweirdo

Creative Juices wrote: »

More waffle. Ok I'll bite, show me the post where I called someone a racist.

For the record, I don't think closing borders is "racist". I think it's just selfish and small minded. I could easily see you asking for the borders/airports in Wales to be closed if they had widespread ebola.

Here you go

Creative Juices wrote: »

But you have to admit ProfressorPlum is right, you are absolutely winging it and making it up as you go along. When anyone questions your "statements", you completely change tack and get all defensive rather than discuss the statement itself.

We know Google is your friend but I think a more balanced and less emotive presentation of the facts would help.

I await a rant including some of the following phrases "humanity at stake, colonialism will haunt the west, head in the sand, will go airborne, vaccines wont work, close the borders, racist element "

And of course I'd ask for the airports of Wales to be closed if they had ebola on the scale of Liberia and growing as fast. It's actually the opposite of small minded, its seeing the bigger picture, and the fact sometimes to save 99% of the population you have to take unpopular short term measures.

Creative Juices

realweirdo wrote: »

Here you go

I await a rant including some of the following phrases "humanity at stake, colonialism will haunt the west, head in the sand, will go airborne, vaccines wont work, close the borders, racist element "

You muppet, they are all your phrases! Read it again, I said I await a rant (from you) where you use all those common themes and phrases.

Priceless

Creative Juices

realweirdo wrote: »

Here you go

I await a rant including some of the following phrases "humanity at stake, colonialism will haunt the west, head in the sand, will go airborne, vaccines wont work, close the borders, racist element "

You muppet, they are all your phrases! Read it again, I said I await a rant (from you) where you use all those common themes and phrases. Hint: They were all in quotes...

Priceless

realweirdo

Creative Juices wrote: »

I await a rant including some of the following phrases "humanity at stake, colonialism will haunt the west, head in the sand, will go airborne, vaccines wont work, close the borders, racist element "

You muppet, they are all your phrases! Read it again, I said I await a rant (from you) where you use all those common themes and phrases.

Priceless

Ok you know what, I struggle to follow or make sense of most of yours posts, most are contradictory.

The fact you want to uphold the rights of 150 people a day who travel out of Liberia and put the rest of the world at risk underlines just how small minded you are. Again, I repeat you just don't get it. I could try to outline this situation to you for a long time, and you still wouldn't get it.

Independent stats such as the potential for 10,000 infections a week are clearly meaningless to you.

wexie

realweirdo wrote: »

If its 10,000 a week in December it will be 20,000 a week in late january based on current trends. I saw somewhere, I think a report by the cdc, that eventually it could reach 10,000 cases a day. I will look for the article later. At what stage will western governments take this seriously enough to declare it an international emergency and invest all available resources to fight it?

If it ever gets to that stage how could it ever possibly be contained though?

Creative Juices

realweirdo wrote: »

Ok you know what, I struggle to follow or make sense of most of yours posts, most are contradictory.

I rest my case Sir!

NIMAN

wexie wrote: »

If it ever gets to that stage how could it ever possibly be contained though?

Ever see the film THE PURGE?:eek:

Maximus Alexander

realweirdo wrote: »

Ok you know what, I struggle to follow or make sense of most of yours posts, most are contradictory.

The fact you want to uphold the rights of 150 people a day who travel out of Liberia and put the rest of the world at risk underlines just how small minded you are. Again, I repeat you just don't get it. I could try to outline this situation to you for a long time, and you still wouldn't get it.

Independent stats such as the potential for 10,000 infections a week are clearly meaningless to you.

He 'gets it' just fine. He just happens to completely disagree with you. People can disagree with you despite having managed to decipher the words you've written down.

It's worthwhile to remember that.

realweirdo

wexie wrote: »

If it ever gets to that stage how could it ever possibly be contained though?

It can't be contained. Its not the Liberians fault, its the international communities fault, particurly rich countries for not coming up with a proper plan or funds to tackle this head on in Liberia and Sierra Leone.There won't be enough body bags, gloves, protective clothing, and lots more. They have already run out of hospital beds and isolation units.

But I guess we should do like Creative Juices and just imagine its not that serious and won't be in the future and everything will be fine. I'm not sure why we are even worrying. Sure let's just forget about it, pretend it doesn't exist. Creative Juices has assured us this issue will never reach the west in a serious way, so we will take their word for it.

wexie

NIMAN wrote: »

Ever see the film THE PURGE?:eek:

how would making all crime legal for 12 hours help?

realweirdo

Creative Juices wrote: »

I rest my case Sir!

I can see clearly this is all a joke to you, that your main interest is winning an argument on here, rather than in confronting a very serious issue. Sad really.

realweirdo

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

He 'gets it' just fine. He just happens to completely disagree with you. People can disagree with you despite having managed to decipher the words you've written down.

It's worthwhile to remember that.

No, his problem seems to be that you present him with facts and stats such as 10,000 new infections a week, doubling number of new infections, every month, and so on, and rather than address those, he goes directly for the messenger, and completely ignores everything else. I feel he is one of these people you have to walk them baby steps through everything, until finally it dawns on them.

But rather than spoil the thread further I'm going to stick him on ignore.

Creative Juices

realweirdo wrote: »

No, his problem seems to be that you present him with facts and stats such as 10,000 new infections a week, doubling number of new infections, every month, and so on, and rather than address those, he goes directly for the messenger, and completely ignores everything else. I feel he is one of these people you have to walk them baby steps through everything, until finally it dawns on them.

They are not facts, they are projections with variables. I don't agree with your solutions eg close borders.

ceadaoin.

realweirdo wrote: »

No, his problem seems to be that you present him with facts and stats such as 10,000 new infections a week, doubling number of new infections, every month, and so on, and rather than address those, he goes directly for the messenger, and completely ignores everything else. I feel he is one of these people you have to walk them baby steps through everything, until finally it dawns on them.

So there's no point derailing the thread with squabbling yet again. Just agree to disagree!

Hitchens

I wonder how soon we'll be told the reason our various insurance premiums have gone up is due to Ebola? :pac:

Lord Trollington

Think I read somewhere that 15 people in Ireland have returned from ebola effected areas and were tested having showing symptoms but all were negative.

Only takes one confirmed case from someone who didnt follow guidelines to send the whole country into a absolute fcuking mess.

TheQuietFella

More safeguards were put in place during the foot & mouth crisis than this!

Maximus Alexander

TheQuietFella wrote: »

More safeguards were put in place during the foot & mouth crisis than this!

That's because foot-and-mouth was a much greater risk to Ireland at the time than Ebola is at present.

My name is URL

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

That's because foot-and-mouth was a much greater risk to Ireland at the time than Ebola is at present.

Though on the other hand, having measures and restrictions put into place early saved hundreds of millions of euro. The cost to Ireland's economy was around €30 million, while it cost Britain close to £3 billion, with thousands of job losses.