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Ebola virus outbreak

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    #2402
    Creative Juices
    Closed Accounts Posts: 336 ✭✭Creative Juices


    Peist2007 wrote: »
    I didnt know they were playing. Was that on over the weekend?

    You cant admit it, can you?


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    #2403
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    gozunda wrote: »
    Did ye read the link I posted ?

    The link details Will Pooley medical team have stated that -



    It would be nice to think we can't get viral infections twice - I personally had chicken pox twice in my lifetime however as Ebola is largely an unknown no one can make this presumption at this stage

    The issue is compounded by the fact that more than one strain of Ebola has been identified in the current outbreak

    Yes, I did read it. Then I responded to it. Then you quoted my response and linked the article again. I also read it on Friday actually, here, and nothing about my response was unreasonable in light of either article. Except that you appear to be responding to me as though I had said "LOL no people who have recovered from ebola are definitely immune dufus".


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    #2404
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Maximus Alexander wrote: »
    Yes, I did read it. Then I responded to it. Then you quoted my response and linked the article again. I also read it on Friday actually, here, and nothing about my response was unreasonable in light of either article. Except that you appear to be responding to me as though I had said "LOL no people who have recovered from ebola are definitely immune dufus".

    That you read the link was not at all apparent - especially when you stated that ..
    ... from a logical standpoint I'd assume you're immune to the strain for a while at least.

    That presumption cannot be made at this point. Not enough is known about the current outbreak

    I will repost the relevant section
    Will Pooley medical team have Stated ..

    Although it is widely assumed that a person cannot contract Ebola twice, this is not scientifically proven and Pooley has been warned that he still faces a risk. “They have told me I very likely have immunity, at least for the near future, to this strain of Ebola. I have also been told it’s a possibility that I don’t, so I will just have to act as if I don’t ,”

    So that's it the jury is out and while it might be nice to presume otherwise it is anything but logical to do so ...


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    #2405
    Peist2007
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Peist2007


    Creative Juices wrote: »
    You cant admit it, can you?

    Admit what?


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    #2406
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    gozunda wrote: »
    That you read the link was not at all apparent - especially when you stated that ..



    That presumption cannot be made at this point. Not enough is known about the current outbreak

    I will repost the relevant section



    So that's it the jury is out and while it might be nice to presume otherwise it is anything but logical to do so ...

    Yeah but sure just ignore the parts where I said "I get that it hasn't been scientifically proven" and "I wouldn't bet my life on it" because they frame it in a way that doesn't justify your odd rebuke.

    I'm free to presume what I wish, and there's nothing illogical about it. It would only be illogical to categorically state that it was the case. I think that people who survive the virus are, probably, immune and indeed the medical professionals in the article you linked agree that that is probably the case.
    They have told me I very likely have immunity


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    #2407
    Creative Juices
    Closed Accounts Posts: 336 ✭✭Creative Juices


    Peist2007 wrote: »
    Admit what?

    Are you happy that Nigeria has been declared ebola free?


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    #2408
    Peist2007
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Peist2007


    Creative Juices wrote: »
    Are you happy that Nigeria has been declared ebola free?

    Are you asking am i happy that one of the world's most populous countries has declared itself free of a deadly disease for which there is no definite cure?

    Reporting your trolling.


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    #2409
    Creative Juices
    Closed Accounts Posts: 336 ✭✭Creative Juices


    Peist2007 wrote: »
    Are you asking am i happy that one of the world's most populous countries has declared itself free of a deadly disease for which there is no definite cure?

    Reporting your trolling.

    Yes I am. It's progress.


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    #2410
    Peist2007
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Peist2007


    Creative Juices wrote: »
    Yes I am. It's progress.

    Progress for what?

    Why dont you post up some examples of where i have indicated that i want people to die. Go on. Prove your position.


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    #2411
    Creative Juices
    Closed Accounts Posts: 336 ✭✭Creative Juices


    Peist2007 wrote: »
    Progress for what?

    Why dont you post up some examples of where i have indicated that i want people to die. Go on. Prove your position.

    Huh???

    I just wanted you to see you say something positive. It's ok.


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    #2412
    Peist2007
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Peist2007


    Creative Juices wrote: »
    Huh???

    I just wanted you to see you say something positive. It's ok.

    On a thread about Ebola? Bit odd that you need reassurance from an internet forum user who you have never met and who has shown you nothing but signs he thinks you're a clown from the outset. Then again, some people are masochists.


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    #2413
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Maximus Alexander wrote: »
    Yeah but sure just ignore the parts where I said " I get that it hasn't been scientifically proven and I wouldn't bet my life on it because they frame it in a way that doesn't justify your odd rebuke.

    I'm free to presume what I wish, and there's nothing illogical about it. It would only be illogical to categorically state that it was the case. I think that people who survive the virus are, probably, immune and indeed the medical professionals in the article you linked agree that that is probably the case.

    Yes it's a given that anyone can presume whatever however your post clearly made the claim that
    ... from a logical standpoint I'd assume you're immune to the strain for a while at least.

    You have made the claim that it is apparently logical (based on facts?) that those who become infected and recover should be immune for a certain period.

    As I stated no such presumption (one way or the other) can be made at this time because that information is simply not available.

    Btw if posting please be prepared for other posters to disagree with what you may state. This is not necessarily a 'rebuke' or in any way personal.

    Btw you missed out the relevant and linked part of the quote by Will Pooleys medical team that I believe you missed in your first reply.

    "They have told me I very likely have immunity, at least for the near future, to this strain of Ebola. have also been told it’s a possibility that I don’t, so I will just have to act as if I don’t ,”


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    #2414
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,278 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    The quarantine period for the family who were in the apartment with Thomas Duncan is now over so they are free to leave. So that's some more good news. They are very lucky they didn't become infected but I have been reading that Duncan had a good idea what was wrong with him and insisted on isolating himself as much as possible while he was there.

    They have said they won't be going back to the apartment. Can't say I blame them.


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    #2415
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    The quarantine period for the family who were in the apartment with Thomas Duncan is now over so they are free to leave. So that's some more good news. They are very lucky they didn't become infected but I have been reading that Duncan had a good idea what was wrong with him and insisted on isolating himself as much as possible while he was there.

    They have said they won't be going back to the apartment. Can't say I blame them.

    Can't see the apartment being that popular as a re-let or potential sale ...


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    #2416
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,278 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    gozunda wrote: »
    Can't see the apartment being that popular as a re-let or potential sale ...

    No, although maybe someone will be able to use it to get a decent discount on the rent!

    I read that a lot of their stuff was destroyed as it was considered hazardous material. I wonder if they will be recompensed by the state for that? It's America though so I doubt it.


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    #2417
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,716 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Disappointed. Would have sorted out the overcrowding in the Mater hospital instantly.


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    #2418
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    gozunda wrote: »
    You have made the claim that it is apparently logical (based on facts?) that those who become infected and recover should be immune for a certain period.

    Yes.
    gozunda wrote: »
    As I stated no such presumption (one way or the other) can be made at this time because that information is simply not available.

    Presumption can absolutely be made. Certainty cannot be had.


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    #2419
    MadYaker
    Registered Users Posts: 12,218 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Fun fact of the day: More Americans have been married to Kim Kardashian than have died from Ebola.


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    #2420
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Maximus Alexander wrote: »
    Yes.



    Presumption can absolutely be made. Certainty cannot be had.

    Such a presumption can only be made if the current lack of knowledge of the outbreak is ignored. As long as that's made clear - fine.


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    #2421
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    No, although maybe someone will be able to use it to get a decent discount on the rent!

    I read that a lot of their stuff was destroyed as it was considered hazardous material. I wonder if they will be recompensed by the state for that? It's America though so I doubt it.

    Good point. Took a quick look re biohazard and insurance in the US and it appears that this type of situation would not be covered.
    Biological attacks by terrorists also fall outside coverage by insurance. Jeff McCollum, a spokesperson for State Farm, says, "If a terrorist group is identified as the group responsible for burning down homes across the country, the damage would be covered," he says. "If they go around the country planting big bags of anthrax in homes, it would fall under most contamination exclusions." This type of exclusion is generally applied to mold, but it also extends to other forms of biological contamination such as anthrax.
    "If someone has to wear a biohazard suit to clean up your car or home, it is probably excluded,"

    http://www.insure.com/home-insurance/biological-warfare.html


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    #2422
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    gozunda wrote: »
    Such a presumption can only be made if the current lack of knowledge of the outbreak is ignored. As long as that's made clear - fine.

    I don't agree at all - the lack of knowledge of this particular strain of Ebola is what makes it a presumption, rather than a fact. Nothing is being ignored.

    Saying we can't make the presumption, on the other hand, would require us to ignore over a century of research on viruses and the immune system.


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    #2423
    ProfessorPlum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,811 ✭✭✭ProfessorPlum


    gozunda wrote: »
    Such a presumption can only be made if the current lack of knowledge of the outbreak is ignored. As long as that's made clear - fine.

    Will Pooley's medical team presume he is immune. He has travelled to the US to donate antibodies to treat another victim - because it is presumed his antibodies will fight the disease. Based on general knowledge of immunology and virology, it is reasonable to presume he will be immune, certainly to the strain with which he was infected, and possibly have some crossover immunity to other strains. Is he willing to be this life on it? Is his medical team willing to bet his life (and possibly their wealth) on it? No. But it doesn't make the presumption any less valid.

    Btw, it's generally considered (presumed?) that most people who've 'had chickenpox twice' were misdiagnosed.


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    #2424
    Yellowblackbird
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 603 ✭✭✭Yellowblackbird


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Disappointed. Would have sorted out the overcrowding in the Mater hospital instantly.

    Also would have caused a staffing shortage instantly.


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    #2425
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Maximus Alexander wrote: »
    I don't agree at all - the lack of knowledge of this particular strain of Ebola is what makes it a presumption, rather than a fact. Nothing is being ignored.

    That argument makes absolutely no sense.
    Maximus Alexander wrote: »
    ISaying we can't make the presumption, on the other hand, would require us to ignore over a century of research on viruses and the immune system.

    The simple reason that a presumption cannot be made at this time is because that as in the case of Will Pooley - the medical profession are currently not confident that recovering from Ebola actually confers immunity. This coupled with the fact that Virus immunology is a vast and diverse field of science in which no two viruses can be compared either overtime or between different strains means that it remains an unknown.


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    #2426
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    ProfessorPlum wrote: »
    Will Pooley's medical team presume he is immune. He has travelled to the US to donate antibodies to treat another victim - because it is presumed his antibodies will fight the disease. Based on general knowledge of immunology and virology, it is reasonable to presume he will be immune, certainly to the strain with which he was infected, and possibly have some crossover immunity to other strains. Is he willing to be this life on it? Is his medical team willing to bet his life (and possibly their wealth) on it? No. But it doesn't make the presumption any less valid.

    So why was Will Pooley advised by his medical team as follows?
    "They have told me I very likely have immunity, at least for the near future, to this strain of Ebola. I have also been told it’s a possibility that I don’t, so I will just have to act as if I don’t ,”

    The use of Will Pooleys antibodies comes with no guarantee of any cure or otherwise of Ebola. Such treatment is being currently used a last ditch treatment in certain cases.
    ProfessorPlum wrote: »
    Btw, it's generally considered (presumed?) that most people who've 'had chickenpox twice' were misdiagnosed.

    Confirmed in both instances by medical records and recorded symptoms. Have you a link to your 'generally considered'?


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    #2427
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Oh sweet God! Reading this thread at times is liking trying to chew glass.

    How much more pedantic about Will Pooley's immunity are ye going to be? It's like arguing over height of a high tide while using two separate measuring systems.


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    #2428
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Turtwig wrote: »
    Oh sweet God! Reading this thread at times is liking trying to chew glass.

    How much more pedantic about Will Pooley's immunity are ye going to be? It's like arguing over height of a high tide while using two separate measuring systems.

    Indeed. Fancy taking the risk though? ;)


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    #2429
    ProfessorPlum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,811 ✭✭✭ProfessorPlum


    gozunda wrote: »
    So why was Will Pooley advised as follows?



    The use of Will Pooleys antibodies comes with no guarantee of any cure or otherwise of Ebola. Such treatment is being currently used a last ditch treatment in certain cases.



    Confirmed in both instances by medical records and recorded symptoms. Have you a link to your 'generally considered'?

    Re chicken pox / just google, I'm sure you'll find Sth. Unless it was confirmed twice by serology, it means diddly.

    Look at the statement you quoted from me Pooleys medical team. They presume he is immune. It's not certain. That's all. You're getting yourself very wound up in semantics and I'm not sure what the point you're trying to make is.
    In a practical sense, it would be interesting to hear if anyone from the affected areas has been infected twice. I'm sure if that was seen to be the case we would have heard as it would be the biggest news for this outbreak, and would put an end to many epidemiologists predictions of the epidemic 'burning itself out'. Oh yes, all those guys are presuming you can't be infected twice too. Seems like you're on your own.


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    #2430
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    ProfessorPlum wrote: »
    Re chicken pox / just google, I'm sure you'll find Sth. Unless it was confirmed twice by serology, it means diddly.

    Yes I can google - but do please at least try and back up your claims. I will also take you have sufficient professional medical background and relevant qualifications to make such a certified statement.
    ProfessorPlum wrote: »
    ...Look at the statement you quoted from me Pooleys medical team. They presume he is immune. It's not certain. That's all. You're getting yourself very wound up in semantics and I'm not sure what the point you're trying to make is.
    In a practical sense, it would be interesting to hear if anyone from the affected areas has been infected twice. I'm sure if that was seen to be the case we would have heard as it would be the biggest news for this outbreak, and would put an end to many epidemiologists predictions of the epidemic 'burning itself out'. Oh yes, all those guys are presuming you can't be infected twice too. Seems like you're on your own.

    There are no semantics - it's a direct quote. For those who did not see it!
    "They have told me I very likely have immunity, at least for the near future, to this strain of Ebola. I have also been told it’s a possibility that I don’t, so I will just have to act as if I don’t ,”

    This IS NOT a 'headline' btw :rolleyes:


    Ignore it and replace it with your own reality of you like. It does not change the fact that the status of immunity from Ebola is presently unknown. As 'for on my own' I will stick with what the medical tem have detailed and not conjure up my own aspirations.

    Btw you mentioned Will Pooleys antibodies being used as a 'cure' -


    the information clearly detailed his donated plasma was being used for "research"
    He said he is keen to return to alleviate the suffering and put all the fuss about his own brush with the disease behind him. Before leaving he demonstrated typical selflessness, banking 1.2 litres of plasma in a lab in Birmingham to help WHO research on a “convalescent plasma therapy”.

    “Some of it might be used for research and consent has been given. It may be possible to use it for any future patients,” he said. Pooley has also had white blood cells harvested for research. Last month he flew to the US where he gave a further three litres over six days.


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    #2431
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,278 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    ProfessorPlum wrote: »
    Re chicken pox / just google, I'm sure you'll find Sth. Unless it was confirmed twice by serology, it means diddly.

    Look at the statement you quoted from me Pooleys medical team. They presume he is immune. It's not certain. That's all. You're getting yourself very wound up in semantics and I'm not sure what the point you're trying to make is.
    In a practical sense, it would be interesting to hear if anyone from the affected areas has been infected twice. I'm sure if that was seen to be the case we would have heard as it would be the biggest news for this outbreak, and would put an end to many epidemiologists predictions of the epidemic 'burning itself out'. Oh yes, all those guys are presuming you can't be infected twice too. Seems like you're on your own.

    Yes, they presume he is immune but can't say 100% because there haven't been enough studies to prove it yet. I think they are pretty certain he is immune. I don't think there are any recorded instances of someone being infected twice, even with different strains? I vaguely remember something about anti bodies being present 10 years after infection in one documented case so it does seem to be long term immunity. However, "Will Pooley told he may not be immune to Ebola as he returns to Sierra Leone" makes a better headline than "Will Pooley more than likely is immune and won't get ebola again"

    There was a study that found that up to 15% of people in ebola affected regions actually had antibodies against it despite never having any visible symptoms of the disease. Studies on their blood suggest that they did seem to have immunity

    A surprisingly high proportion of the Gabonese population could have immunity against Ebola. Antibodies to the virus were found in 15.3% of rural communities, whereas these people had never had haemorrhagic fever or other specific symptoms of the disease (such as severe diarrhoea or vomiting). IRD researchers and their partners 1 recently discovered this large number of healthy carriers among Gabonese people, even in areas where there has never been an Ebola outbreak. The scientists consider that these people have somehow come into contact with the virus, probably present in fruit contaminated by saliva from Chiroptera (fruit bats) 2.

    The research team next looked into the immune status of people carrying antibodies, the first such investigation concerning this disease. They first showed that the antibodies react specifically against one or more proteins of the virus. These individuals had indeed developed specific antibodies against Ebola. In vitro tests subsequently brought evidence of a significant rise in the number of T8 lymphocytes (white blood cells which destroy infected cells) producing cytokine IFN-g, a substance involved in the immune system. This immune memory specifically concerning the Ebola virus is similar to that generated by vaccines whose effectiveness against Ebola in animals has been shown in previous studies. This similarity prompts the researchers to wonder if these people are naturally protected against new infection.


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