Vendor won't leave property

angel eyes 2012

Dear all,

We have contracts signed on a house that we went sale agreed on. The Vendors have given us three different closing dates that they have not met. I spoke with my Sol this morning who indicated that her solicitor "expects" the closing date to be this Monday. I don't even know if this means we get the keys. I am out of my mind with the stress and upheaval that this woman has put us through. We have moved out of our apartment (originally thinking we were getting the keys last Friday) and are effectively homeless. I asked my Sol are we entitled to compensation due to the fact the mortgage has been drawn down and our first payment is due end of April. He is reluctant to put anything in writing as he indicated a week's delay is not unusual. I asked him should I contact her Sols but he was not advising that. I asked him can I approach her and ask her nicely to get out of our house. He was not encouraging this course of action either. Has anyone any advice, as I feel we are not getting any assistance from anyone. Thanks

Eldarion

angel eyes 2012 wrote: »

Dear all,

We have contracts signed on a house that we went sale agreed on. The Vendors have given us three different closing dates that they have not met. I spoke with my Sol this morning who indicated that her solicitor "expects" the closing date to be this Monday. I don't even know if this means we get the keys. I am out of my mind with the stress and upheaval that this woman has put us through. We have moved out of our apartment (originally thinking we were getting the keys last Friday) and are effectively homeless. I asked my Sol are we entitled to compensation due to the fact the mortgage has been drawn down and our first payment is due end of April. He is reluctant to put anything in writing as he indicated a week's delay is not unusual. I asked him should I contact her Sols but he was not advising that. I asked him can I approach her and ask her nicely to get out of our house. He was not encouraging this course of action either. Has anyone any advice, as I feel we are not getting any assistance from anyone. Thanks

So the money has been drawn down and is sitting in your Solicitor's account accumulating a nice amount of interest at your expense? Or worse has the solicitor already transferred the drawn down funds from their account into the seller's account?

angel eyes 2012

Eldarion wrote: »

So the money has been drawn down and is sitting in your Solicitor's account accumulating a nice amount of interest at your expense? Or worse has the solicitor already transferred the drawn down funds from their account into the seller's account?

Thanks Eldarion, I think the money is sitting in my Solicitor's account accumulating interest. That makes sense as the Sol has not acted in our best interest throughout this process. What are the implications for us in that respect ie do we have to pay additional interest or is it just the first mortgage payment in April that we have to pay?

Markcheese

I doubt the solicitor is making much off your mortgage sitting in his account for a week or two .. Interest rates very low at the moment... (not saying he is or is not crap though) . When my brother bought his house 10 years ago the solicitor he used was seriously ineffective..he had two months mortgage paid before he got the key...like pulling teeth to get info out of him ...

the_syco

angel eyes 2012 wrote: »

[We have contracts signed on a house that we went sale agreed on. The Vendors have given us three different closing dates that they have not met. I spoke with my Sol this morning who indicated that her solicitor "expects" the closing date to be this Monday. I don't even know if this means we get the keys.

Sounds like you're part of a chain, with the home owner waiting to move into their new house. Do you know if the vendor has signed the contract yet, and if so, does your solicitor have a copy of it?

angel eyes 2012

the_syco wrote: »

Sounds like you're part of a chain, with the home owner waiting to move into their new house. Do you know if the vendor has signed the contract yet, and if so, does your solicitor have a copy of it?

Contracts are signed. Yes, she is experiencing some delay with the house she is buying but that is not our problem. She put the house on the market again from under us in early Feb when we were waiting on the Bank to get back to us regarding life cover. She indicated at that time that it was extremely urgent that the house was sold as she wanted to move out (estate Agent lies as per usual). She ended up getting more than the asking price from us also. We have made all the sacrifices and done all the running around.

The EA was practically harassing me just before the contracts were signed. Now he says it is out of his hands. We have been paying mortgage protection since December. I didn't know we would also be paying a mortgage for a house we cannot occupy!!

paulpd

You should be charging her rent for staying in what appears to be your house.

dockleaf

A weeks delay isn't unusual. You are buying a house, and it can get complicated. Have you met your solicitor face to face to ask what can be done? Has he served a closing notice? ~Even where there is a closing date in a contract either party can delay up to a month normally after serving a notice without penalties after that which is why if there are problems arising it is important to serve a closing notice.

In fairness it sounds like you only exchanged contracts less than a month ago or at least the contracts only became unconditional then. It is your own bad timing that you started paying insurance so early.

TheDriver

Your solicitor should be acting in your interest. Hound them as that's what you are paying them for. He shouldn't have drawn down the mortgage with such delays. Establish when she will be out as this could go on and on. Remember she can be penalised as stated in your contract.......

dockleaf

Some bits of nonsense being posted here.

You can't charge the Vendor rent, she still owns the house until you close the sale.

She can only be penalised if she delays beyond the period in a closing notice after service. Or if the contract has been made in certain terms- note this is unusual as it is a double edged sword.

Solicitors don't earn interest on current accounts, does anyone these days? And even if they did, it would be a tiny tiny sum, definitely not worth the bother.

If the buyer wants to close, the solicitor HAS to draw down the mortgage amount. Some banks, eg BoI, will still only issue cheques which have to clear through to the solicitors account before the solicitor can in turn send on to the Vendor. No money available means no closing.

Only the OP's solicitor can really deal with this- which is why I asked if they have been to meet him, face to face.

angel eyes 2012

TheDriver wrote: »

Your solicitor should be acting in your interest. Hound them as that's what you are paying them for. He shouldn't have drawn down the mortgage with such delays. Establish when she will be out as this could go on and on. Remember she can be penalised as stated in your contract.......

Thanks for the replies. I am reluctant to hound my Solicitor as on each occasion I put the pressure on, he reminds me that he has put a lot of work into the file. I am dreading his bill and I have a feeling it may be astronomical, he has hinted that it will be more than the usual conveyance fee. That's why I don't mind calling her Solicitor or calling up to her house and confronting her, however I don't want to get on her bad side just yet. Be this a warning to potential buyers never go with a Solicitor who was recommended by a family member!

I called him today and he said he will hint that we are looking at compensation for the delay, which might speed them up hopefully.

MonGal

Interest is not accrued on funds in a Solicitors Client Account. If your Solicitor has sent the purchase monies to the Vendor's Solicitor, it should have been sent on trust and to his order, meaning that the Vendor's Solicitor cannot release it to his Client until your Solicitor gives written authority to do so (when you receive the keys to the property, your Solicitor is satisfied with the closing documents received from the Vendor's Solicitor and any acts appearing on closing searches have been explained). In relation to your fears regarding your Solicitor's fees, you should have been provided with a Section 68 Letter when you engaged him setting out clearly in writing either the estimate of his charges or his actual charges, together with associated outlays, and the basis of his fees. Solicitors are obliged to do this in respect of all transactions. Do not expect to receive any compensation as delays like this are common.

angel eyes 2012

MonGal wrote: »

Interest is not accrued on funds in a Solicitors Client Account. If your Solicitor has sent the purchase monies to the Vendor's Solicitor, it should have been sent on trust and to his order, meaning that the Vendor's Solicitor cannot release it to his Client until your Solicitor gives written authority to do so (when you receive the keys to the property, your Solicitor is satisfied with the closing documents received from the Vendor's Solicitor and any acts appearing on closing searches have been explained). In relation to your fears regarding your Solicitor's fees, you should have been provided with a Section 68 Letter when you engaged him setting out clearly in writing either the estimate of his charges or his actual charges, together with associated outlays, and the basis of his fees. Solicitors are obliged to do this in respect of all transactions. Do not expect to receive any compensation as delays like this are common.

Thanks Mon Gal. I don’t really mind about how much this costs in the grand scheme of things. It's the delays that cause me the most anxiety. I wish all parties could be honest and realistic about deadlines. She has now said that Monday is the closing date but I know deep down it won't be. We did not receive any Section 68 Letter indicating his costs. This Sol has been in practice over 40 yrs and is very much stuck in his ways.

cookiecakes

A week or two is fairly common place, I think. I would be slow to order your solicitor to order a closing notice. The vendor's solicitor threatened that to us when we went a week over ,through no fault of our own but UB being slow to get things in order. Our solicitor took great exception and the vendor ended up having to pay a higher proportion of the property tax bill for the year which we had agreed would be 50/50 to speed up the sale.

Did you not get a quote from the solicitor before you started? We got a full breakdown of the expenditure when we first rang them and they said it was standard practice for conveyancing to issue this.

Ray Palmer

angel eyes 2012 wrote: »

Contracts are signed.

I very much doubt that they are signed because then you would own the house. You may have signed them but the other party and solicitors haven't.

This is the natural course of house purchases

johnnyskeleton

angel eyes 2012 wrote: »

Thanks Eldarion, I think the money is sitting in my Solicitor's account accumulating interest. That makes sense as the Sol has not acted in our best interest throughout this process. What are the implications for us in that respect ie do we have to pay additional interest or is it just the first mortgage payment in April that we have to pay?

That's just not correct. Solicitors client accounts must be non-interest bearing. If you're unhappy with your solicitor you should change solicitors or make a law society complaint.

dockleaf

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I very much doubt that they are signed because then you would own the house. You may have signed them but the other party and solicitors haven't.

This is the natural course of house purchases

Not true in Ireland. Here contracts are exchanged with a later closing date.

Monife

Has your solicitor received one part of the contract executed by the Vendor? If not, then you are quite a bit away from closing the sale. If he has received it recently, there is still a few formalities required before the sale can complete. The waiting period you describe is not unusual and if you contact the Vendor's solicitor, they will not give you any information as you are not their client.

Also, it doesn't matter that you have to start paying your mortgage soon and that you are not in your house yet. Your mortgage is a loan from the bank which requires repayment, makes no difference if you are in the house or not.

Valentine1

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I very much doubt that they are signed because then you would own the house. You may have signed them but the other party and solicitors haven't.

This is the natural course of house purchases

Considering that it is common Knowledge here that you own a number of properties I'm a bit surprised that you would be so mistaken. Ownership does not pass on signing of contracts, it passes on closing which is when the Money is handed over to the vendor and possession and the title deeds handed over to the purchaser.

The period between signing and closing might be no time at all or several weeks. Four weeks is typical and delays of a week or two are unfortunately common. The Solicitor would have had to draw down the monies in order to close, I would be very unhappy that draw down had happened and the sale had not closed and it should only happen in circumstances where Your Solicitor had to draw down in advance and/or the Vendor delayed at the very last minute. Either way your solicitor is holding the money in his Client account on Trust for you and it certainly is not earning him any interest.

I hope things get sorted for you quickly. If the delays continue the next step is to serve a Closure Notice, that can often have the effect of sharpening minds and getting results.