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Outrageous Prices ??

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  • 25-03-2014 9:06pm
    #1
    Alanvtec
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭


    Quick bit of backround info, im buying a house (3 bed semi D ) in an estate of about 40 houses.
    The estate was built about six years ago but like all builders ran into problems trying to sell the last six houses at the original price. So three houses were left unfinished completely on the inside, no first fixing or anthing done.
    They were put on the market then in September of last year at a significantly reduced rate (240,000 6 years ago to nearly Half price) and I was one of the lucky ones to acquire one of these. Here is where the problem starts.
    I had a few extras I wanted done to my house while the "builder" (developer as he has told me) was doing the work so I met him two weeks ago and we discussed things I wanted done and he said he would get back to me with prices, now bare in mind that this house is totally bear on the inside so some of the work he would have to do anyway.
    These are the prices I was quoted,


    Attic Space 57m2
    • One layer of 100mm insulation €200
    • One layer of 200mm insulation (error credit back €200)
    • Additional 200mm joisting €412
    • Floor attic Space in 3/4inch ply €580
    • Relocate cold water storage tank €190
    • Fit stira stairs or similar €240
    • Light in attic space €130
    €1752
    Plumbing
    • Gas supply to cooker €350
    • Supply & Fit 300 litre hot water cylinder
    • Fit Solar panels (client to supply panels and all material
    up to the hot water cylinder)
    • Pump for power shower
    • Fit power shower (client to supply power shower) Material €1970
    €2,320


    Electrics
    • Two double sockets €140
    • Tv Point €100
    • Telecom Point €92
    • Energy efficient recessed lights
    living room 12no. x 43 €516
    Hall 7no x 43 €301
    Toilet 2no. x 43 €96
    Dining room 9no. x 43 €387
    Kitchen 6no. x 43 €258
    €1,890



    Door
    • From the utility to swing open into the kitchen






    Im I mad or are these prices over the top completely.


«1

Comments

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    #2
    wirehairmax
    Registered Users Posts: 678 ✭✭✭wirehairmax


    Alanvtec wrote: »
    Quick bit of backround info, im buying a house (3 bed semi D ) in an estate of about 40 houses.
    The estate was built about six years ago but like all builders ran into problems trying to sell the last six houses at the original price. So three houses were left unfinished completely on the inside, no first fixing or anthing done.
    They were put on the market then in September of last year at a significantly reduced rate (240,000 6 years ago to nearly Half price) and I was one of the lucky ones to acquire one of these. Here is where the problem starts.
    I had a few extras I wanted done to my house while the "builder" (developer as he has told me) was doing the work so I met him two weeks ago and we discussed things I wanted done and he said he would get back to me with prices, now bare in mind that this house is totally bear on the inside so some of the work he would have to do anyway.
    These are the prices I was quoted,


    Attic Space 57m2
    • One layer of 100mm insulation €200
    • One layer of 200mm insulation (error credit back €200)
    • Additional 200mm joisting €412
    • Floor attic Space in 3/4inch ply €580
    • Relocate cold water storage tank €190
    • Fit stira stairs or similar €240
    • Light in attic space €130
    €1752
    Plumbing
    • Gas supply to cooker €350
    • Supply & Fit 300 litre hot water cylinder
    • Fit Solar panels (client to supply panels and all material
    up to the hot water cylinder)
    • Pump for power shower
    • Fit power shower (client to supply power shower) Material €1970
    €2,320


    Electrics
    • Two double sockets €140
    • Tv Point €100
    • Telecom Point €92
    • Energy efficient recessed lights
    living room 12no. x 43 €516
    Hall 7no x 43 €301
    Toilet 2no. x 43 €96
    Dining room 9no. x 43 €387
    Kitchen 6no. x 43 €258
    €1,890



    Door
    • From the utility to swing open into the kitchen






    Im I mad or are these prices over the top completely.

    All seems reasonable enough so yes you are mad.


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    #3
    topcatcbr
    Registered Users Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭topcatcbr


    Alanvtec wrote: »
    Quick bit of backround info, im buying a house (3 bed semi D ) in an estate of about 40 houses.
    The estate was built about six years ago but like all builders ran into problems trying to sell the last six houses at the original price. So three houses were left unfinished completely on the inside, no first fixing or anthing done.
    They were put on the market then in September of last year at a significantly reduced rate (240,000 6 years ago to nearly Half price) and I was one of the lucky ones to acquire one of these. Here is where the problem starts.
    I had a few extras I wanted done to my house while the "builder" (developer as he has told me) was doing the work so I met him two weeks ago and we discussed things I wanted done and he said he would get back to me with prices, now bare in mind that this house is totally bear on the inside so some of the work he would have to do anyway.
    These are the prices I was quoted,


    Attic Space 57m2
    • One layer of 100mm insulation €200
    • One layer of 200mm insulation (error credit back €200)
    • Additional 200mm joisting €412
    • Floor attic Space in 3/4inch ply €580
    • Relocate cold water storage tank €190
    • Fit stira stairs or similar €240
    • Light in attic space €130
    €1752
    Plumbing
    • Gas supply to cooker €350
    • Supply & Fit 300 litre hot water cylinder
    • Fit Solar panels (client to supply panels and all material
    up to the hot water cylinder)
    • Pump for power shower
    • Fit power shower (client to supply power shower) Material €1970
    €2,320


    Electrics
    • Two double sockets €140
    • Tv Point €100
    • Telecom Point €92
    • Energy efficient recessed lights
    living room 12no. x 43 €516
    Hall 7no x 43 €301
    Toilet 2no. x 43 €96
    Dining room 9no. x 43 €387
    Kitchen 6no. x 43 €258
    €1,890



    Door
    • From the utility to swing open into the kitchen






    Im I mad or are these prices over the top completely.

    These seem perfectly reasonable to me.


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    #4
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    topcatcbr wrote: »
    These seem perfectly reasonable to me.

    +1


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    #5
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    Some of it looks reasonable some I don't know. I would ask to see the breakdown in man-hours. I wonder if he did that would everything still seem reasonable.


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    #6
    Alanvtec
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭Alanvtec


    Really 160 euro to move a cold water tank that hasn't even being put in yet ?

    130 to put in an attic light ?

    140 to put in two plugs side by side
    100 tv point
    92 for phone line
    ...all coming down the same chase in the wall


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    #7
    TireeTerror
    Registered Users Posts: 2,271 ✭✭✭TireeTerror


    Alanvtec wrote: »
    Really 160 euro to move a cold water tank that hasn't even being put in yet ?

    130 to put in an attic light ?

    140 to put in two plugs side by side
    100 tv point
    92 for phone line
    ...all coming down the same chase in the wall

    Do it yourself then.


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    #8
    Kristopherus
    Registered Users Posts: 11,907 ✭✭✭✭Kristopherus


    OP, get prices from the various different tradesmen. If they come in cheaper than your "developer", then tell him take a hike.


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    #9
    Alanvtec
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭Alanvtec


    TireeTerror wrote: »
    Do it yourself then.

    I cant under terms of the contract I cannot (builder wont let me, I asked)
    do any work to the house until it is handed over to me finished and complete, so Im not going chasing the walls after they have being plastered and all the wiring is done!!


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    #10
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    TireeTerror wrote: »
    Do it yourself then.

    Irish service industry attitude at its best here.

    Seriously OP ask for a breakdown of man-hours and material. Much more difficult to add loads of 'fat' this way.


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    #11
    Alanvtec
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭Alanvtec


    Kristopherus wrote: »
    OP, get prices from the various different tradesmen. If they come in cheaper than your "developer", then tell him take a hike.

    If I could I would,



    Boskowski wrote: »
    Irish service industry attitude at its best here.

    Seriously OP ask for a breakdown of man-hours and material. Much more difficult to add loads of 'fat' this way.


    To Be honest I asked him to break down the plumbing i.e how much he was paying for the pump and 300 ltr tank and he told me that whatever he priced it at was for the pump and tank and he wasnt going breaking it down any more.
    so I doubt he is going to break it down to man hours for me


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    #12
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    Alanvtec wrote: »
    To Be honest I asked him to break down the plumbing i.e how much he was paying for the pump and 300 ltr tank and he told me that whatever he priced it at was for the pump and tank and he wasnt going breaking it down any more.
    so I doubt he is going to break it down to man hours for me

    Ye I wonder why that is...


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    #13
    wirehairmax
    Registered Users Posts: 678 ✭✭✭wirehairmax


    Boskowski wrote: »
    Ye I wonder why that is...
    Why should he?


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    #14
    scwazrh
    Registered Users Posts: 2,698 ✭✭✭scwazrh


    Boskowski wrote: »
    I ask for a breakdown of man-hours and material.

    Youre forgetting about overheads and profit there as well.Builders are allowed to make a profit you know.Ring stira and see can you get an attic ladder supplied and fitted for 240 euro.Same with the downlights , 43 euro each is very cheap.


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    #15
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    wirehairmax wrote: »
    Why should he?

    Well why shouldn't he? Unless his quote has fat there shouldn't be a problem. In my industry its fully expected for all estimates to be broken down by man-hours.


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    #16
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    scwazrh wrote: »
    Youre forgetting about overheads and profit there as well.Builders are allowed to make a profit you know.Ring stira and see can you get an attic ladder supplied and fitted for 240 euro.Same with the downlights , 43 euro each is very cheap.

    But surely if he charges whatever the hour is thats where the profit is. You can't expect people to pay say €80 per hour and then some plus for good measure. A quote has to be comprehensible and somewhat transparent and not just 'it is what it is'.

    Edit: Btw, don't get me wrong I'm not saying it is outrageous. I wouldn't know, its not my industry. All I'm saying is the customer should be able to demand some sort of transparency and if the quote isn't fatted up I don't see where the problem is.


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    #17
    wirehairmax
    Registered Users Posts: 678 ✭✭✭wirehairmax


    Boskowski wrote: »
    Well why shouldn't he? Unless his quote has fat there shouldn't be a problem. In my industry its fully expected for all estimates to be broken down by man-hours.
    And what is your industry?


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    #18
    scwazrh
    Registered Users Posts: 2,698 ✭✭✭scwazrh


    Based on the prices the builder has quoted , I would be surprised if he is charging even 20 euro per hour.The quote is transparent ,he has itemised and costed each item , how he arrives at each individual item cost is his business , not the customers.

    Its wrong to say that a quote cannot just be "it is what it is "That is the idea of a quote.The builder is offering a fixed price that he will carry out the work for.If the customer doesn't want to pay that amount he has the option to say no.


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    #19
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    wirehairmax wrote: »
    And what is your industry?

    Like I said I'm not doubting the quote itself just the transparency of it, therefore its irrelevant what my industry is.


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    #20
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    my dad was in this game and quotes would sometimes vary massively, between different builders. You would probably get someone on gumtree for half the price as a cash in hand job... The pricing depends on a number of factors...


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    #21
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    scwazrh wrote: »
    Based on the prices the builder has quoted , I would be surprised if he is charging even 20 euro per hour.The quote is transparent ,he has itemised and costed each item , how he arrives at each individual item cost is his business , not the customers.

    But what other reason would he have to refuse a breakdown unless he's hiding fat?


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    #22
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    Hey OP just as a matter of interest. You say you're not allowed to do it yourself pre-finish. I assume that means you can't get a different builder in either? You either have to take his quote or else do it all post handover?


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    #23
    Alanvtec
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭Alanvtec


    Boskowski wrote: »
    Hey OP just as a matter of interest. You say you're not allowed to do it yourself pre-finish. I assume that means you can't get a different builder in either? You either have to take his quote or else do it all post handover?

    Exactly, the house I agreed on is for a finished house so I cant step foot in the house until it is finished, so its either his work or no ones and i get it done post handover


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    #24
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    Alanvtec wrote: »
    Exactly, the house I agreed on is for a finished house so I cant step foot in the house until it is finished, so its either his work or no ones and i get it done post handover

    People have said here the quote is reasonable enough so thats a good sign. If you still have doubts maybe you could pay another builder a few hundred to verify the quote or get a second quote based on post handover work if thats what you need for peace of mind?

    If he doesn't entertain you for a more itemised quote there's probably not much you can do.


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    #25
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    Boskowski wrote: »
    Well why shouldn't he? Unless his quote has fat there shouldn't be a problem. In my industry its fully expected for all estimates to be broken down by man-hours.

    How much will you pay him to sit down for X hours and calculate the breakdown. ? Or, how many hours a week do you work for free?

    The prices are open and transparent. They are not outrageous imho. You are not obliged to do the work.

    You need to remember: his pricing is solicitation of an offer buy, not an offer to sell. Feel free to not exercise that option.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #26
    cardwizzard
    Registered Users Posts: 1,385 ✭✭✭cardwizzard


    A lot of it seems very reasonable, maybe even a tad on the cheap side. Others I just don't know the pricing so can't comment.

    If your not happy op don't go for it. But the builder has to make money or its not a business he has.


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    #27
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    Boskowski wrote: »
    Like I said I'm not doubting the quote itself just the transparency of it, therefore its irrelevant what my industry is.

    Well it is actually - you're the one who brought yours in as comparison. Doesn't 'transparency' work both ways ??

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #28
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    Boskowski wrote: »
    But what other reason would he have to refuse a breakdown unless he's hiding fat?

    Because he's not making enough money to warrant spendng any more time breaking it down. Now you know why some people charge for quotes.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #29
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    Alanvtec wrote: »
    Exactly, the house I agreed on is for a finished house so I cant step foot in the house until it is finished, so its either his work or no ones and i get it done post handover

    I know it's a bit late now, but was any of this foreseeable before you signed the contract ?

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #30
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    I know a few builders and their attitude is "well my mortgage and expenses etc havent dropped" why should my prices, wish I could adopt that attitude in work :rolleyes: The foreign workers in general have far more reasonable expectations IMO... Tell him youll be paying by cheque, wouldnt be surprised if you see a cash discount...


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    #31
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    my dad was in this game and quotes would sometimes vary massively, between different builders. You would probably get someone on gumtree for half the price as a cash in hand job... The pricing depends on a number of factors...
    we are a tax complaint forum. Read the forum charter before posting again
    Idbatterim wrote: »
    I know a few builders and their attitude is "well my mortgage and expenses etc havent dropped" why should my prices, wish I could adopt that attitude in work :rolleyes: The foreign workers in general have far more reasonable expectations IMO... Tell him youll be paying by cheque, wouldnt be surprised if you see a cash discount...
    as stated above, there will be no more of this type of talk


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