Manager correcting me on personal issues

davo10

gozunda wrote: »

By no stretch of the imagination are all "managers" employers. The majority of management appointees are staff as well. Bad management does not make for better interns.

Bad interns make bad employees or distant memories. The intern's manager assesses the intern and can be responsible for the decision of whether the intern is retained or released. The employer relies on the manager's opinion, if he says she has poor communication skills which did not improve even though he informed her of his concerns, then they thank her and wish her well as she walks out the door. This is business not brunch with the girls.

gozunda

dar100 wrote: »

If the "Manager" didn't have a problem with it at the interview, he shouldn't have a problem with it now!

I'd much rather have my dignity and some self respect, than a Job Bridge position, which in all likelyhood is been abused, by the greed of many private sector businesses.

Either way, the boss was disrespectful, unprofessional, clearly lacking in boundaries, and says much more about his own communication style, than the OP.

That's the problem with this country and many of the individuals in it! It's nothing to do with the moral high ground, its called respect

I agree. The standard of behaviour of the manager in question, as described by the OP was clearly unprofessional. Any concerns should have been brought up in a private and appropriate setting. However at least the intern is now aware of this individual and can act accordingly. No manager should expect to get away with such appalling behaviour in the long term.

davo10

gozunda wrote: »

However at least the intern is now aware of this individual and can act accordingly. No manager should expect to get away with such appalling behaviour in the long term.

There is no need for her to act accordingly, in a couple of weeks she will be gone. The only act she has to concentrate on is to improve. As far as the company is concerned (which will be very little) they have invested nothing in her, she is not an employee, the manager has told her of his issues and it is now up to her to improve or hit the road. There is no down side for the manager nor the company, when OP leaves, the next intern will probably at the very least be able to communicate with her/his colleagues. Or the OP can take on board what was said and have some chance of putting off joining the dole que for a while anyway. Given how easily she is offended, there is absolutely no guarantee she would make it through a probationary period.

Appalling behaviour? Give me a break, have you any clue of a modern work place? I'd sack the manager if he didn't tell her she was a mumbler.

She was told informally rather than being called in to a formal meeting with the manager ( I'm sure many interns would find that intimidating) and told that she was not measuring up to the required standards demanded. It would have been far worse if nothing was said, OP would get to the end of the internship thinking she had done great only to be told she bombed because no one could understand her. Then as she stands in the que, she might wonder why no one said anything to her or gave her the opportunity to improve.

Life owes no one a living, it's not all plain sailing and lattes. There are hundreds if not thousands of people out there looking for that job, many will be better and more thick skinned than the OP and you gozunda. So grow up and get on with the job, stop whinging every time someone says something you disagree with or don't like. Being told you mumble at a social get together is neither here nor there and if it causes offence, well better your employer knows now when they can let you go rather than later when they have to fire you.

dar100

davo10 wrote: »

An interview gets you in the door only, that is why most companies have probation periods, to see if the employee can deliver on the promise of their interview and to see if they can integrate and be productive, if not then they hit the street.

Dignity doesn't pay a mortgage, being an asset to your employer does. I wouldn't be stupid enough to mention "the greed of the private sector" to perspective employer unless you plan a long career of visits to the dole office.

Em no, if the guy has a problem with communication, it would have also been seen at interview, yes probationary periods are correct, and part of that process is line management supervision, and this is where the "issue" should have been dealt with.

Also, as a Job Bridge employee, the OP is there to train, so there would have been no promise at interview.

The greed of the private sector, was my own personal opinion, but I would have no problem making that statement if it was called for, luckily for me, I'm a supervisor, in the voluntary sector

davo10

dar100 wrote: »

Em no, if the guy has a problem with communication, it would have also been seen at interview, yes probationary periods are correct, and part of that process is line management supervision, and this is where the "issue" should have been dealt with.

Also, as a Job Bridge employee, the OP is there to train, so there would have been no promise at interview.

The greed of the private sector, was my own personal opinion, but I would have no problem making that statement if it was called for, luckily for me, I'm a supervisor, in the voluntary sector

Oh dear God, in the context of my post "promise" in its verb rather than its noun form means to commit to the realisation of a value in the near future ie that the OP has potential but can she live up to it?

An interview is a conversation only, usually in a quiet office with no noise nor distractions. Working is where you actually observe the person doing the tasks which they are assigned in a busy/noisy environment . Probation allows employers to remove the employees who don't live up to the promise showed at interview.

Lucky for you surely, spout that line at an interview in the private sector and as I said earlier, you would just have to hope your feet hit the pavement before your arse. You are living the dream but before you get down off that high horse, remember that the "greed" you refer too funds many of the voluntary organisations through the taxes paid (if you are getting Government subsidies) and through donations directly from businesses or employees giving some of their earnings. Isn't life grand.

davo10

gozunda wrote: »

Hey IID

He won't mention or admit to the incident because if he does he is admitting to appalling unprofessional behaviour. Even if this person is your direct boss aim to get a reference from another member of staff.

I would suggest you don't get overtly bogged down by the various asides to the matters you described. If your internship is sponsored - you can report the matter at a suitable time via the appropriate channels . If the manager behaves like this towards other people then yes he is a bully even where you have experienced one such incident to date. I would suggest you also watch and record any other similar behaviour, you don't have to use it but it may come in handy at a later date. The following article has some interesting points. http://m.psychologytoday.com/articles/199508/when-the-boss-is-bully

On the contrary, the manager will mention it at the end of the internship and rightly so. If you improve, he will say "great, we now know you have the capacity and willingness to improve" if you don't he will say "well I told you what you had to do, you didn't improve, close the door on your way out"

Gozunda, bullying isn't an isolated incident, it is repeated incidents, you do no justice to real victims of bullying by going on with this tripe.

Bullying: Bullying is repeated inappropriate behaviour that undermines your right to dignity at work.

The guy told her to speak more clearly, taken in context he is telling her what the minimum requirement she needs to reach in order to succeed in the job. To communicate.

If she doesn't take his advice, there isn't likely to be a "later date". Simples.

gozunda

InternIndistress wrote: »

Hi all, I appreciate your input, really helps.

Just to make things a bit clearer my job does not involve dealing with customers. It's a technical job...I'm trying my best to not let it bother me however I do find it a little un-motivating, after all this was the guy I wanted to impress. Now I don't think I'd be interested in working under such a person. However I really want the experience and a good reference to put on my CV.
I still haven't mentioned anything to the guy. He was somewhat nice to me this morning, and mentioned nothing of what happened.

.

Hey IID

He won't mention or admit to the incident because if he does he is admitting to appalling unprofessional behaviour. Even if this person is your direct boss aim to get a reference from another member of staff.

I would suggest you don't get overtly bogged down by the various asides to the matters you described. If your internship is sponsored - you can report the matter at a suitable time via the appropriate channels . If the manager is behaving like this towards other people on a regular basis then yes he is a bully even where you have experienced one such incident to date. I would suggest you also watch and record any other similar behaviour, you don't have to use it but it may come in handy at a later date. The following article has some interesting points. http://m.psychologytoday.com/articles/199508/when-the-boss-is-bully
As I mentioned before the guy sounds like a right plonker. Mind yourself. :-)

Edit: I added some detail but it didn't post - must be the gremlins!

dar100

davo10 wrote: »

Oh dear God, in the context of my post "promise" in its verb rather than its noun form means to commit to the realisation of a value in the near future ie that the OP has potential but can she live up to it?

An interview is a conversation only, usually in a quiet office with no noise nor distractions. Working is where you actually observe the person doing the tasks which they are assigned in a busy/noisy environment . Probation allows employers to remove the employees who don't live up to the promise showed at interview.

Lucky for you surely, spout that line at an interview in the private sector and as I said earlier, you would just have to hope your feet hit the pavement before your arse. You are living the dream but before you get down off that high horse, remember that the "greed" you refer too funds many of the voluntary organisations through the taxes paid (if you are getting Government subsidies) and through donations directly from businesses or employees giving some of their earnings. Isn't life grand.

Stop with the patronizing tone, "oh dear god", who are you Opera?? I didn't mean promise in a literal sense. Nobody is spouting anything at any interview, if you actually read my posts, I'm talking about an opinion I have in relation to the private sector, not what I, the OP or anyone else should say at an interview, infact, I've never talked about interviews, you have brought that into the conversation. You like to take things out of context, dont you?

I'm well aware of what a interview is for, and how there conducted, I'm aware of a probationary period and employment law also.

BUT YES, life is grand, thanks

delthedriver

Op your Manager was completely out of order in where and how he discussed the issue of mumbling. He is obviously a bit of a Jack Ass!

Nonetheless , if you are shy and perhaps a little quiet when addressing others. Take the opportunity to investigate what you can do to improve your communication skills.Public Speaking and Toastmasters are ways you could help yourself. Check out local facilities in your area. If you are really up for a bit of fun, join a drama group, great way to meet new people and improve your confidence.

Meanwhile enjoy the rest of your internship, and look ahead to a wonderful future.

Enjoy Life.

Best Wishes

zenno

Not a nice scenario to be in at all. Myself personally, I would have slapped him in the face as if I was slapping a freshly caught cod from the river, and made it very clear to said Neanderthal, not to ever discuss my private working business in public, especially in a pub or anything similar.

But there again, realistically, I would have probably just broke his jaw. But that's just me. Not nice, but I'd take real offence whether he be a powerful politician or just a manager/boss. There is a line that must never be crossed, and that is a personal verbal attack on an employee especially in the company of other folk, it's unprofessional.

The high horses/grand saints of this country will soon come on and call me all sorts of garbage. Kiss my arse if that is the case.

delthedriver

zenno wrote: »

Not a nice scenario to be in at all. Myself personally, I would have slapped him in the face as if I was slapping a freshly caught cod from the river, and made it very clear to said Neanderthal, not to ever discuss my private working business in public, especially in a pub or anything similar.

But there again, realistically, I would have probably just broke his jaw. But that's just me. Not nice, but I'd take real offence whether he be a powerful politician or just a manager/boss. There is a line that must never be crossed, and that is a personal verbal attack on an employee especially in the company of other folk, it's unprofessional.

The high horses/grand saints of this country will soon come on and call me all sorts of garbage. Kiss my arse if that is the case.

I agree the Manager is not worth his salt. If he was Professional in the way he approached the intern , the meeting should have taken place in the office, not in a boozy shin dig office drinks night out.

The fact that the Manager needed to deal with the matter when he had a few drinks on board. He is obviously a bully, he has neither respect for the Intern nor indeed the position he holds.

Personally speaking, I would fire the Manager, or to put it in business speak" he left to pursue other business interests "!:)

zenno

delthedriver wrote: »

I agree the Manager is not worth his salt. If he was Professional in the way he approached the intern , the meeting should have taken place in the office, not in a boozy shin dig office drinks night out.

The fact that the Manager needed to deal with the matter when he had a few drinks on board. He is obviously a bully, he has neither respect for the Intern nor indeed the position he holds.

Personally speaking, I would fire the Manager, or to put it in business speak" he left to pursue other business interests "!:)

I have seen managers and boses like this in my working past, and they are bullies, and what I have always noticed is that they go harder/deeper in on an employee if they see them as quiet and afraid. The reason why my comment above looks a bit unappetising, is the reality of witnessing such crap in my past, and how managers treat their employees.

Even if it cost my job in the past, if I saw bullying going on, I would take it straight to the so-called boss, no messing around, I'd stick my big nose in there and make my point that it is not acceptable. No employee should ever have to put up with that crap, especially in a pub for gods sake.

Not acceptable at all. I'd never tolerate that for 1 second, and neither should anyone else. Why work for a loser.

Karl Stein

Start a diary of and record everything that was said and will be said in it. It might come in handy if it turns out that he is the type of prick that it sounds like he is.

obplayer

Karl Stein wrote: »

Start a diary of and record everything that was said and will be said in it. It might come in handy if it turns out that he is the type of prick that it sounds like he is.

Ok, can I just be a little bit blunter than other posters have perhaps been? The OP is an INTERN. Whether you like it or not the advice you are giving her will simply lead to her not getting a job. She is there for a very limited time, keeping diaries is pointless. She needs to fit in to the environment around her, not it to her. If you don't regard this as fair then tough.
OP, listen to the advice from people who work in the private sector please, for your own sake.

davo10

zenno wrote: »

But there again, realistically, I would have probably just broke his jaw. But that's just me. Not nice, but I'd take real offence whether he be a powerful politician or just a manager/boss. There is a line that must never be crossed, and that is a personal verbal attack on an employee especially in the company of other folk, it's unprofessional.

The high horses/grand saints of this country will soon come on and call me all sorts of garbage. Kiss my arse if that is the case.

Now this on the other hand is an example of a bully communicating clearly. Of course, after doing that you would get free lodgings for a while, definitely wouldn't have to worry about working for that manager, nor any other manager for one to three years. You'd have a very different "boss" for a while and In the end, the question you and others would ask is, " who is the loser in this situation?".

davo10

gozunda wrote: »

Zenno

I agree that a zero tolerance policy for bullying is perhaps the method to tackle such bullying. Such behaviour needs to tackled as it costs employers hundreds of thousands in lost revenue, in productivity and in staff turnover. Then there is the possibility of serious litigation where the bullying is proven to have occurred. Not always the easiest route for the person who is bullied, nevertheless it may cost employers far more than any they realise. Insurance companies may pick up the tab but where employers are found liable and it the employer that is currently liable under existing legislation.

The best remedy for employers is to tackle the matter head on and get the bully out the door as soon as possible. As soon as this is dealt with it sends a clear picture to other wannabe bullies who may think that such behaviour is somehow acceptable.

For the person who is bullied it is important to do what they can given their circumstance. Of first importance is to keep a record of the times, place and witnesses of all such incidents so that repeated behaviour can be shown to have happened. It is important that they ignore/avoid the bully as much as is possible as this removes them from the bullies sphere of influence and denies the bully opportunities for such abuse. So in short Ignore the Bully.

It is a fact that bullies fail to see the behaviour as anything other than justified. Effectively it is an abuse of power of the most pathetic kind.
The sooner such behaviour is not tolerated the better.

And this tome is addressed to a poster who advocates violence in the workplace in response to a perceived slight, even though the slight is neither bullying nor serious and is warranted. Zenno doesn't advocate ignoring him, he would batter him, Gozunda this undermines you.

"Why work for a loser" indeed when you can take the moral high ground and join the dole. This wasn't an insult, it wasn't bullying, it wasn't unethical, it was advice to an INTERN to speak more clearly.

Again Gozunda, read slowly please:

Bullying is repeated inappropriate behaviour that undermines your right to dignity at work. An isolated incident of the behaviour may be an affront to dignity at work but as a once off incident is not considered to be bullying.

gozunda

zenno wrote: »

I have seen managers and boses like this in my working past, and they are bullies, and what I have always noticed is that they go harder/deeper in on an employee if they see them as quiet and afraid. The reason why my comment above looks a bit unappetising, is the reality of witnessing such crap in my past, and how managers treat their employees.

Even if it cost my job in the past, if I saw bullying going on, I would take it straight to the so-called boss, no messing around, I'd stick my big nose in there and make my point that it is not acceptable. No employee should ever have to put up with that crap, especially in a pub for gods sake.

Not acceptable at all. I'd never tolerate that for 1 second, and neither should anyone else. Why work for a loser.

Zenno

I agree that a zero tolerance policy for bullying is perhaps the most appropriate method to tackle such bullying. While the effects on the person who is being bullied cannot be underestimated, such behaviour needs to tackled as it costs employers hundreds of thousands in lost revenue, in productivity and in unnecessary staff turnover. Then there is the possibility of serious litigation where the bullying is proven to have occurred. Not always the easiest route for the person who is bullied, nevertheless it may cost employers far more than any they realise. Insurance companies may pick up the tab but where employers are found liable and it is the employer that is currently liable under existing legislation.

The best remedy for employers is to tackle the matter head on and get the bully out the door as soon as possible. As soon as this is dealt with it sends a clear picture to other wannabe bullies who may think that such behaviour is somehow acceptable.

For the person who is bullied it is important to do what they can given their circumstance. Of first importance is to keep a record of the times, place and witnesses of all such incidents so that repeated behaviour can be shown to have happened. It is important that they ignore/avoid the bully as much as is possible as this removes them from the bullies sphere of influence and denies the bully opportunities for such abuse. So in short Ignore the Bully.

It is a fact that bullies fail to see the behaviour as anything other than justified. Effectively it is an abuse of power of the most pathetic kind.
The sooner such behaviour is not tolerated the better.

Edit: Some bullies appear to believe they are protected as each case of bullying must meet certain criteria ie that an employee must prove that they were subject to repeated behaviour. However there is a very clear remedy to this. Where the bully behaves in a bullying manner towards one or more employee then there is an obvious path for a breach of health and safety regulations / dignity at work to be identified. The bully can be effectively put on notice and where such behaviour is identified as happening then the employer can legally push the bully out the door for serious misconduct. I have seen this work effectively in the past. The employer got rid of a liability in the person of a manager who used bullying as an abuse of power., avoided litigation and improved productivity and decreased unnecessary staff turn over. Dealing proactively with bullies - definitively the correct solution to this type of behaviour.

ted1

InternInDistress wrote: »

Hi guys,

I'm an Intern working for a 6 month period for a certain company. Today we had a social to celebrate some company achievements.

I was in the bar and I got talking to my manager (head of my department) and an other work colleague. The manager was the guy that interviewed me and gave me the position. Anyhow, during the course of the conversion my manager mentioned that I need to improve upon my speech. He said that I don't speak clearly nor do I pronounce my words very well. I was a little taken back and as I'm quite new (only an intern) and I little on the shy side I tried to play it as cool as possible, I don't like conflicts. So at first I agreed to a degree, I said I am probably guilty of mumbling at times. I then said I was never picked up on it before. He went on and on, he even did a slight impression on how I speak. At some point I said am I really that bad? His answer was "I could bull**** you but to be honest it's crap. I kinda didn't answer, but didn't disagree. Shortly after I said I have to go and left. He had a fair few drinks on him and all this was said in front of another colleague.

I'm a slightly annoyed with myself for not defending myself more. Up to this point the manager was relatively nice and I've had no problems with him, after all he gave me the job. So, my question is what your thoughts on what happened? What would you do if you were me? Was he completely out of order? I know I should have been more defensive, but am I too late to say it to him tomorrow? What should I say? Any help on the matter greatly appreciated, preferably before tomorrow morning. Thanks

As some one who has a speech impediment ( dyphraxia) I don't see anything wrong with what he did.

Rather than embarrassing you by having a formal sit down meeting, he casually said it to you in a social situation.

Rather than take offence you should listen to what he said. He didn't make it up, try to be more conscious and clearer.

As an intern he is actually doing his job and mentoring you preparing you for the work force

davo10

ted1 wrote: »

As some one who has a speech impediment ( dyphraxia) I don't see anything wrong with what he did.

Rather than embarrassing you by having a formal sit down meeting, he casually said it to you in a social situation.

Rather than take offence you should listen to what he said. He didn't make it up, try to be more conscious and clearer.

As an intern he is actually doing his job and mentoring you preparing you for the work force

Best post of the thread, thank you Ted1 for sharing your first hand experience of this with us.

gozunda

ted1 wrote: »

As some one who has a speech impediment ( dyphraxia) I don't see anything wrong with what he did.

Rather than embarrassing you by having a formal sit down meeting, he casually said it to you in a social situation.

Rather than take offence you should listen to what he said. He didn't make it up, try to be more conscious and clearer.

As an intern he is actually doing his job and mentoring you preparing you for the work force

The OP has clearly stated that there was no previous issue with her speech. And we must take her word for it just as we take your own. And as agreed by others that it was neither the time nor place to have a conversation on such a personal topic - especially in the front of a colleague, The OPs manager had drink taken and went on at length and took the proverbial by parodying her. The behaviour in this instance was neither appropriate nor professional.

Edit: Sorry I meant to ask - I am familiar with Dyspraxia which is a difficulty with thinking out, planning and carrying out sensory / motor tasks. (link) Could you tell me a bit about dyphraxia?

ubercool

I really don't see the problem with the criticism or the forum. The boss probably though that an informal setting was the best place to break the issue, rather than a formal performance review. He was giving an off the record advice.

Was it insensitive? Probably. But to say it is bullying is far fetched in my opinion.

And reporting the incident will only lead to trouble.

Learn. Move on. Do better.

Mrs OBumble

Alright, enough.

I've had a number of reported posts, and I see what several posts have been edited too, so goodness only knows what was removed in the early hours of the morning!

OP, you've had a good spread of advice on this thread, I hope you can choose the bits that are most relevant to you. Feel free to start another thread if you want to discuss other aspects of your workplace.

Closed.