Manager correcting me on personal issues

spyderski

con___manx1 wrote: »

he is the boss and probably has a big ego. if he mentions it again give him some criticism and say it not good protocol from a manager to criticise an employe in front of other colleagues.

I'm sure he'd take that advice on board and consider it deeply while he was filling out your P45. :eek:

spyderski

Rose35 wrote: »

Agreed, since when is it ok to mimick someone and do it in front of another person, manager or no manager, he has no cop on, hope he is feeling like a pr*ck today and has a sore head, clearly had too much drink on board, don't agree that this is constructive criticism, taking someone off like that, OP good luck with the rest of your internship, im sure you don't mumble that badly you have to be pulled up on it, learn from your experience with this company, and hold your head up, its tough starting out but you will find your feet in a company with a manager that respects his staff, best of luck.

Did a manager ever pull you up regarding the correct use of commas and full stops?

stinkle

So what are you insinuating? That there is a conspiricy between the two of them? That they are laughing it up behind her back? A bit of reality is required here. Im pretty sure that the boss would be quite annoyed if the third party went off talking about A) a conversation he had with an employee and a young intern who just started in the place. Now that would be bullying.

I'm not insinuating anything, but any decent manager wouldn't behave like this. If they are annoyed that a 3rd party parrots stuff off then DONT SAY STUFF IN FRONT OF THEM TO BEGIN WITH... Especially involving an intern!


Ah for gods sake. She is an intern. What kind of people spend their days lookng for ways to pick on interns? Who are these people? If this were to actually happen the people doing it would be in the wrong and liable to reprimand. This guy was trying to help her as someone he had employed and works under his guidance and he just got it wrong, that is a bit different to picking on people simply because you think you can.

Honestly? You must work with lovely people, can I join your job? I really do hope that the boss did get it wrong, but by acting the way he did then he has potentially set up the intern for some bad times. All because he sounds like a crap manager who doesnt respect boundaries or confidentiality or needs drink to say tough things. Why should the OP feel bad for their shortcomings?

Rose35

spyderski wrote: »

Did a manager ever pull you up regarding the correct use of commas and full stops?

Petty, doesn't even warrant a reply but anyway................

MayoAreMagic

Honestly? You must work with lovely people, can I join your job?

Have you ever considered you might have these experiences because of how you react to others? There was a guy who worked with me who took offence too easily and then reacted by trying to 'get his own back'. He confided in me that he thought most of his workmates werent very nice, but the reality was he was the reason as to why he didnt get along with them. For the record his workmates were far nicer than he was.


I really do hope that the boss did get it wrong, but by acting the way he did then he has potentially set up the intern for some bad times.

Like what?


All because he sounds like a crap manager who doesnt respect boundaries or confidentiality or needs drink to say tough things. Why should the OP feel bad for their shortcomings?

Who said he needs drink? For all we know he could have had the same bottle all night. Why do we assume the boss was drunk? Couldnt the intern have been drunk in the same fashion? Also, I dont see what boundaries he didnt respect. People need to communicate at work, it is an important tool. If you are missing a vital function in the workplace then the true mean thing to do is not try to help the person and let them sink. He tried to help the intern, you are quick to ignore this point. I would suggest that in itself is quite unreasonable. He only said so much until she pushed him on the subject, this is being ignored yet it is a vital part of the information. If she hadnt wanted to hear it then why did she push the subject?

GardenMadness

People need to communicate at work, it is an important tool.

Yes, and the onus is on a manger to communicate a problem to an intern in an appropriate and proportionate manner. Which is not doing impressions of how they speak in front of colleagues.

jca

Squatman wrote: »

you have no idea, have you?

Well I don't think using ones "outside" voice to bawl at the manager is very good advice, do you?

December2012

Look, it could've been handled better by the Manager but in reality OP this is just something you've got to roll with.

Not everything in work is done by the board on both sides - this applies to employees too.

There's a lot of indignance and high horses about work and going through proper channels. In reality things are a bit more flexible and bosses and employees have to let certain things slide.

Otherwise anybody who left a few minutes early or arrived a few minutes late would be in trouble.

Boskowski

geeky wrote: »

My tuppence worth: the guy may well have been trying to give constructive advice to articulate better.

He picked a bad time and setting to do it (on a social occasion, with drink taken) which probably made his choice of words rather poor and made the experience pretty upsetting. There are two things you can address: the criticism and the manager's approach.

The criticism:
I think it's worth trying to make an extra effort to speak clearly and have confidence in what you're saying. Easier said than done, I know.

The approach:
I'd be inclined to let it slide for now, but make a note of it. This was a one-off incident but, if it becomes a bullying pattern that merits a complaint, you should be able to name specific days and times.

Maybe you could follow up with the manager in a friendly but professional way at work - just ask for a quick five minute chat about what you can do to address the issue. I would hope that, if he genuinely feels the point is valid, he'd express it in a more professional way.

Are you havin a laugh or something? This is a manager who gives a bit of a slagging type advice of personal nature to some bleeding greenhorn intern and your advice is to let it 'slide' this time?
Are you actually living in the real world?

Boskowski

I bet my arse half the people posting here have never worked a day in a real job. These replies are total lala land stuff.

hmmm

Sounds like you received some very valuable advice, very early in your career. It wasn't delivered in the most professional manner, but that's life. You're going to need a thicker skin if you're going to survive working with other adults.

The real working world is not full of politically correct superhumans who always say the correct thing at the appropriate moment.

hmmm

Boskowski wrote: »

your advice is to let it 'slide' this time?

Your advice is what? Complain to HR? HR will nod and commisserate, and then they'll try and figure out how to get the OP out the door as quickly as possible.

irishguy1983

December2012 wrote: »

Look, it could've been handled better by the Manager but in reality OP this is just something you've got to roll with.

Not everything in work is done by the board on both sides - this applies to employees too.

There's a lot of indignance and high horses about work and going through proper channels. In reality things are a bit more flexible and bosses and employees have to let certain things slide.

Otherwise anybody who left a few minutes early or arrived a few minutes late would be in trouble.

I'd agree with that - it should not have happened and I do belive it is cruel and nasty. However who said life is fair and everything is done properly? If it continued I'd do something about it.

Boskowski

hmmm wrote: »

Your advice is what? Complain to HR? HR will nod and commisserate, and then they'll try and figure out how to get the OP out the door as quickly as possible.

I guess the sarcasm in my reply wasn't obvious. There is nothing to be done here.

TimeToShine

hmmm wrote: »

Your advice is what? Complain to HR? HR will nod and commisserate, and then they'll try and figure out how to get the OP out the door as quickly as possible.

I don't think you quite understood his post. He's in the same corner as you.

irishguy1983

hmmm wrote: »

Sounds like you received some very valuable advice, very early in your career. It wasn't delivered in the most professional manner, but that's life. You're going to need a thicker skin if you're going to survive working with other adults.

The real working world is not full of politically correct superhumans who always say the correct thing at the appropriate moment.

Again +1 i suppose - i hate agreeing with that but again a sensible thing to say...

Snakeweasel

OP, take the feedback as constructive, from my experience a manager will not give feedback, whether it is constructive or otherwise, to someone they see nothing in. It might not have been the most sensitive way to say it, but like you said, he was the one who hired you so clearly he had already seen something in you, if not he would have said nothing, drunk or not and just let you sit out your internship.

Miaireland

Op maybe your manager should not have said what he said in the place or the manner he did but he has given you invaluable advice and I would be grateful to him for saying it. This is something that will affect every interview you ever do and he has told you what you need to improve. This could make the difference between getting your dream job or not.


Have you tried recording yourself and seeing how you sound.Forgot about how and where he said it and look at it as an opportunity.

MayoAreMagic

GardenMadness
Yes, and the onus is on a manger to communicate a problem to an intern in an appropriate and proportionate manner.
Which is not doing impressions of how they speak in front of colleagues.

Colleagues? It seems they are multiplying. Maybe this colleague was the person that brought it to the bosses attention?

Maybe the boss didnt want to frighten the intern by calling them into their office for a meeting? Maybe they wanted to broach the subject in an informal environment to avoid them being intimidated? Maybe if the intern hadnt kept referring to the subject in the conversation then he wouldnt have felt the need to give an example?

stinkle

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Have you ever considered you might have these experiences because of how you react to others?

The thread isn't about me, I was making a lighthearted comment - you are lucky if you haven't experienced it in jobs. Thankfully the "experiences" I've seen of people treating junior people badly due to managers leading by example haven't affected me personally. It's an observation of workplace politics and how everyone is just out for themselves - as long as someone else is getting flak from a manager then everyone else is delighted it's not them.

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Like what?

Like what I posted directly below it.


I never said the guy was drunk, but OP said there was drink taken. IMO one drink is one too many if you're going to forego Managment 101 in the pub. Yes the OP could have been drunk, she didnt go asking for feedback out of hours though.

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

People need to communicate at work, it is an important tool.

Yeah at work. Not the pub. It's actually a bit ironic getting communication critique from a manager who doesn't seem to grasp the basics of it himself.

I'm not ignoring the fact that he may have tried to help her, but there's 8 hours in the working day where he could do this and do it properly. Hopefully his intentions were good, but it was stupidly inappropriate, a third party was privy to the conversation and when you add the mimicking to the mix no wonder the OP is concerned. Would a person trying to help actually do impressions?

MayoAreMagic

stinkle, and if he was just giving advice? Not in a management capacity, but as a person who wants to see you do well? They werent in the workplace let's not forget. They were speaking about work in a bar and he gave some advice from his years of experience. It isnt a command from the op's manager, it was just some well-meaning and in fairness, very good advice that was delivered poorly. I realise that it might have been a little embarassing the way it panned out, but Id rather be embarassed for a day or two than spend my entire career speaking in a fashion that limited my professional capacity.

stinkle

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

stinkle, and if he was just giving advice? Not in a management capacity, but as a person who wants to see you do well? They werent in the workplace let's not forget. They were speaking about work in a bar and he gave some advice from his years of experience. It isnt a command from the op's manager, it was just some well-meaning and in fairness, very good advice that was delivered poorly. I realise that it might have been a little embarassing the way it panned out, but Id rather be embarassed for a day or two than spend my entire career speaking in a fashion that limited my professional capacity.

I totally agree with you, and really hope that it was well-meaning advice. I also agree with the point made by someone else that proper constructive criticism isnt usually given to people who have no potential - hopefully the OP is doing something right. The impression isn't sitting right with me though, especially when someone else witnessed it. I've been in situations where we'd be discussing work/work situations in the pub myself, and personally it'd usually be the advisor/advisee talking, no work third parties sitting in.

My advice to the OP earlier was to say it to them, not in a "I want to complain way", but in a "let's not pretend it didnt happen, but please do let me know about stuff like this in a more professional way in future", cos if the manager was genuinely trying to be helpful they probably felt crap for having blabbed on to the OP. If they were actually trying to be a knob then again its no harm to nip it in the bud either.

L.Jenkins

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

...TBH, this sort of feedback is actually valuable. You might not like it, but at this stage of your career, lap it up and be grateful. It's far better than they tell you, rather than not tell you and let you go because of it.

I can appreciate your knowledge and understanding, but it's not something that should be said at a social event.

the_syco

InternInDistress wrote: »

He had a fair few drinks on him

People who talk like this whilst drunk usually have a reputation for doing so. If he's still there it's mainly because he's good at his job, or he has friends in high places. Before you issue a complaint against him, check with your colleagues (informally, over lunch) if this is a regular occurrence, and what happens to people who complain.

TBH, do the 6 months, get a nice reference, and don't look back. If he'll be your manager for the rest of the 6 months, consider not reporting him so you get a good reference.

=-=

As you're only six months there, maybe don't go drinking with him again. Long term, get the speech thing looked into. Possibly self empowerment courses, or public speaking courses, as it you said you do mumble at times.

Generally, these types of things are never told to you in the office (mainly as sober people would fear lawsuit backlash when they get rid of the person for the same reason that they're telling them of). They're told to you when drink is taken. Keep in mind that if he didn't say anything, you may not have known how other managers view you. Harsh, but it's better to find out about these things early in life so that you can rectify them, rather than later after you've lost a few jobs because of it.

davo10

the_syco wrote: »

People who talk like this whilst drunk usually have a reputation for doing so. If he's still there it's mainly because he's good at his job, or he has friends in high places. .

For God's sake, he told her to speak more clearly.

gozunda

davo10 wrote: »

For God's sake, he told her to speak more clearly.

I disagree. As I said previously the advice is made irrelevant by the way and how it was delivered. IF the OP lacks confidence in speaking taking the P/ss in such a venue in front of others is neither proper nor acceptable as a manager.

It never fails to amaze me such obvious lack of ethical behaviour is excused and glossed over by the attitude that a) it is somehow ok for a manager to behave unprofessionally towards another employee and b) that where it does happen the employee should be grateful and suck it up as was quoted by other posters

We have many obvious examples of a complete ignorance of ethical behaviour in this country especially in politics and business,

An important part of learning in employment is how to treat people with both courtesy and respect, in this instance both are evidently absent. The intern is with the company to learn, however what they are being taught in this instance is that it is ok for a manager to behave in a manner which is offensive. The manager was out of order. There is no excuse.

davo10

gozunda wrote: »

I disagree. As I said previously the advice is made irrelevant by the way and how it was delivered. IF the OP lacks confidence in speaking taking the P/ss in such a venue in front of others is neither proper nor acceptable as a manager.

It never fails to amaze me such obvious lack of ethical behaviour is excused and glossed over by the attitude that a) it is somehow ok for a manager to behave unprofessionally towards another employee and b) that where it does happen the employee should be grateful and suck it up as was quoted by other posters

We have many obvious examples of a complete ignorance of ethical behaviour in this country especially in politics and business,

An important part of learning in employment is how to treat people with both courtesy and respect, in this instance both are evidently absent. The intern is with the company to learn, however what they are being taught in this instance is that it is ok for a manager to behave in a manner which is offensive. The manager was out of order. There is no excuse.

What a pile of BS, have you any idea of modern work places? Do you think it is taboo for work to be discussed after 5pm? When I talk to my staff at social outings I make it a point NOT to discuss their personal lives, I don't ask them about their social life, religion, habits etc because it's none of my business and I don't want to know. We talk about work at times and it's a good way for both sides to voice opinions informally, it can be invaluable because they say things that might be niggling them that they may not necessarily want a formal discussion about during work hours.

This guy told OP she needs to speak more clearly, she didn't know what he meant so he demonstrated how she comes across to others, big deal. If it was done in a coffee shop down the road would you have an issue,? probably.

Honestly, gozunda you must think all work places should be utopian where no one is allowed to say anything which might be viewed as being remotely offensive. Wake up and smell the coffee, if OP took offence to this she needs to grow up because she is going to hear a lot worse in the years to come.

Ethical behaviour? An intern is about to bomb because no one understands her, manager mentions it in an informal setting, gozunda have you any experience at all of the cut and thrust of a work place? rules get broken, noses get put out of joint, asses get kicked, interns are allowed to intern and leave without anyone noticing or bothering to inform them of how they could improve, managers get fired and fluffy day dreamers get to sit at home dreaming about the perfect job.

gozunda

davo10 wrote: »

What a pile of BS, have you any idea of modern work places? Do you think it is taboo for work to be discussed after 5pm? When I talk to my staff at social outings I make it a point NOT to discuss their personal lives, I don't ask them about their social life, religion, habits etc because it's none of my business and I don't want to know. We talk about work at times and it's a good way for both sides to voice opinions informally, it can be invaluable because they say things that might be niggling them that they may not necessarily want a formal discussion about during work hours.

This guy told OP she needs to speak more clearly, she didn't know what he meant so he demonstrated how she comes across to others, big deal. If it was done in a coffee shop down the road would you have an issue,? probably.

Honestly, gozunda you must think all work places should be utopian where no one is allowed to say anything which might be viewed as being remotely offensive. Wake up and smell the coffee, if OP took offence to this she needs to grow up because she is going to hear a lot worse in the years to come.

Ethical behaviour? An intern is about to bomb because no one understands her, manager mentions it in an informal setting, gozunda have you any experience at all of the cut and thrust of a work place? rules get broken, noses get put out of joint, asses get kicked, interns are allowed to intern and leave without anyone noticing or bothering to inform them of how they could improve, managers get fired and fluffy day dreamers get to sit at home dreaming about the perfect job.

Are you the OPs manager by any chance? Let me put in very plain language for you. In giving advice on communication the manager obviously failed to see his own complete failure in this area.

Btw you are arguing against your own statement on this matter.
You yourself said in a previous post

davo10 wrote: »

The forum was absolutely wrong...

And

davo10 wrote: »

...This may be constructive criticism given in the wrong place and time.

Wrong time and place - yes. Constructive - I don't think so.

I will give it to you though, the post above is a beautiful example of the ridiculous use of rhetorical questions and statement ie "what a load of bs". Well done on the communication style there.

You say "When I talk to my staff at social outings I make it a point not to discuss their personal lives". Exactly how much more personal could the conversation with the OP have been? The intern didn't bring up anything that was "niggling them". The manager had a go at the intern for her speaking style and even parodied the interns speech at length in front of another colleague.

If you return to the OPs post you will note that "work" was not being discussed. The manager did not discuss the sales figures or the annual returns - the intern was directly criticised on a personal matter by him for something that the OP has quite clearly stated is not true. This manager hired the OP as an intern. IF the intern was that bad, would it be logical that he would have hired her? I think not.

Where did you get that "An intern is about to bomb"???. If it was that serious then a social event IS NOT the place to discuss such a matter.

Dave1o from the above post it is evident that ethical behaviour is an unfamiliar concept . And we wonder why the standards of ethics in government and business are so appalling in this country. Guess what take some of your own advice and smell the coffee because the era of the sociopathic office bully is over and done. Managers need training, that much is obvious.

The OP has already replied that she is dealing with this individual in a mature manner. I admire her control considering the guy comes across as a complete plonker.

davo10

gozunda wrote: »

Are you the OPs manager by any chance?

No. Nor would I employ her, to be honest the manager/owner would probably be of the opinion that the next intern will be better, jobs are hard to come by, if you are that precious ( that includes you gozunda), you are out . Modern business is all about learning, the good and the bad, the rough and the smooth etc. If an employee gets bent out of shape by something as simple as being told she needs to speak more clearly, then stay at home and dream about the perfect job where wages are fair, work is easy, political correctness rules. Or she (and you) can grow a thicker skin, take criticism on board and show the detractors that they are wrong.

OP has bombed, if her manager thought it necessary to tell her that she mumbles, then if this continues she is heading for the street. On the other hand, if she takes the criticism (and that's what it was) on board, she has some chance, ignore it and they will wave her goodbye without a second thought. The harsh reality of business life, if she is useful she is employable, if not she is not.

gozunda

davo10 wrote: »

No. Nor would I employ her, to be honest the manager/owner would probably be of the opinion that the next intern will be better, jobs are hard to come by, if you are that precious ( that includes you gozunda), you are out . Modern business is all about learning, the good and the bad, the rough and the smooth etc. If an employee gets bent out of shape by something as simple as being told she needs to speak more clearly, then stay at home and dream about the perfect job where wages are fair, work is easy, political correctness rules. Or she (and you) can grow a thicker skin, take criticism on board and show the detractors that they are wrong.

OP has bombed, if her manager thought it necessary to tell her that she mumbles, then if this continues she is heading for the street. On the other hand, if she takes the criticism (and that's what it was) on board, she has some chance, ignore it and they will wave her goodbye without a second thought. The harsh reality of business life, if she is useful she is employable, if not she is not.

And modern business acknowledge that some managers are not doing their job and in fact a liability to the company and other staff. It has already been established that they manager wasn't simply telling the intern to speak more clearly. Something he obviously failed to notice at her interview which he himself participated in. So either he is incompetent or has sociopathic tendancies. This is not unknown in management with some studies showing that such individuals are more likley to be in a position of authority.

And btw do desist with the personal pops. Thanks.

Once again IF someone "has bombed" then a social event IS NOT the place to make reference to a personal issue (if indeed there is one) in front of another staff member. This is where companies must be proactive in weeding out this poor standard of management. Insurance companies and companies themselves cannot continue to support the financial costs of stupid behaviour by those in management roles. Managers are employees and also dispensable at the end of the day.