Mortgage for Single earner of full family (5)

roofi

Hi there,

I have been thinking to buy a reasonable size house in Dublin (preferable 3 bed in Dublin 15 area) and am under pressure as there are not much good opportunities available for family with kids.
I went to talk to my bank Ulster but was surprised to know I can't get more than 58k in which I can't even buy a single bed house for my family?

I have 3 kids (all less than 6 years old) and have been renting for long time now. My wife doesn't work as she minds the kids at home. I have been on full time permanent job for the last three years but was contracting before.

My Bank told me that I can't get more than 58k because I have 3 kids and one wife dependent on me. I know I have enough savings for advance and legal expense to buy a house, I always pay credit card bill on time so no bad credit history and no outstanding loan etc.

My bank statement shows that I have been paying rent always on time by direct debit and can see I have still some money left in my account every month after paying all family expense. Even if I add couple of hundreds on top of my monthly rent for monthly repayment of mortgage, I can still save some money but bank said since I have more dependent with single earning, I can't get more than 58k. Ideally I'm looking to by around 200k.

Would you please give sincere advice or give me direction that how and where I can borrow such money or get mortgage to buy even 3 bed room house within above price range as I don't see many good price houses are available in the market in good location (family) but can buy cheaper house in dodgy areas or not safer for family with kids.

Its so pity on people like me who has family but they can't get mortgage even the government / bank cover all families (having kids) under one blanket that if you have more dependent, you can get more money even though I have reasonable salary and monthly savings.

Do you have any idea if Irish Government is thinking about this to build more houses for family in near future or is there any hope for families to buy a house for them or any other light of hope?

Any correct direction to buy house or suggestion would be highly appreciated.

Best regards.

tommythecat

Try a different bank?

Eldarion

I know it sucks but the bank is dealing in cold facts and figures. They've taken your age, your annual salary, your proof of savings, your number of dependents and various other factors and run it through a formula to spit out a figure.

The 58k is the output of that formula.

Why do you expect the government build a house for you to own? Or are you referring to renting a house off the government because you can't afford to pay, i.e. Social Housing?

It's these types of threads that spark rants about bank lending responsibility irony and absurd Irish mentality in owning property...

roofi

Eldarion wrote: »

I know it sucks but the bank is dealing in cold facts and figures. They've taken your age, your annual salary, your proof of savings, your number of dependents and various other factors and run it through a formula to spit out a figure.

The 58k is the output of that formula.

Why do you expect the government build a house for you to own? Or are you referring to renting a house off the government because you can't afford to pay, i.e. Social Housing?

It's these types of threads that spark rants about bank lending responsibility irony and absurd Irish mentality in owning property...

@Eldarion, I didn't mean Government build house so I can own. I mean, more the stock, better the choice/price and I know Banks/Government is not allowing/giving money to Developer/builder to build new houses. I also heard so many past builders are possessing / occupying the Land/site and not building and waiting to start building when property market is near to peak to get crazy profit like it was few years ago before property bubble burst.

I don't fancy owning the house but just thinking for my kids would have a shelter to live and peacefully live their life without moving one house to another for renting until they stand on their own feet and in fact I've been paying mortgage of my landlords for long time now by paying rent from my pocket.

Suggest me what other choice I will have if I have kids growing up.

Thanks.

GavMan

To be frank, it doesn't matter how many houses get built, if you can only borrow 60k then you wont be able to afford one...

Mrs OBumble

If your salary is so low that they will only lend you 58k, then you should be on the council housing llist, becasue it's unlikely that you will ever be able to afford to buy privately.

Cuddlesworth

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If your salary is so low that they will only lend you 58k, then you should be on the council housing llist, becasue it's unlikely that you will ever be able to afford to buy privately.

If he has 6 dependants, pays rent and saves, then its unlikely "his salary is so low" as you would think.

dar100

Try some of the voluntary housing bodies, also, if you get two refusals from the banks, you can apply to DCC for one of their mortgages, they are less strict with rules etc

Ray Palmer

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

If he has 6 dependants, pays rent and saves, then its unlikely "his salary is so low" as you would think.

You can be pretty sure that it is low given the max from the bank is at the very least one years salary. He only has 4 dependents

He may be able to get FIS.

OP you basically can't afford a house in Dublin for the foreseeable future. Council housing really is your only option.

The government have done nothing to you. Your own lifestyle choices have created the situation. I am also a bit surprised you only realised now that that is the situation you find yourself in.

joeguevara

^^ why is council housing his only option. If he can afford to rent why not continue renting?

Banks are pretty similar in the amounts people borrow at the moment. It is unfortunate as the rent would/could be similar to mortgage payment. But stricter conditions now mean no chance of mortgage approval of 200k.

Ray Palmer

joeguevara wrote: »

^^ why is council housing his only option. If he can afford to rent why not continue renting?

Banks are pretty similar in the amounts people borrow at the moment. It is unfortunate as the rent would/could be similar to mortgage payment. But stricter conditions now mean no chance of mortgage approval of 200k.

Obviously he can still rent.
If he wants to own or have a fixed address.

flintash

i experenced similiar situation as OP. for me it seems that banks dont care on how much you survive and how much you save. they have a formulas and thats it. as was told a family of 4 after mortgage repayments should be left with 2500.
i dont even earn that and after ALL expenses i save more than my own bank manager (his own words).but they lend me pitty money... so...
bassically if you saver and responsable with your money its not the country for you. sorry to hear for your situation but i recommend your wife gets some sort of part time job then situation will be different. talk to your bank about this if this is feasible.

Diane Selwyn

When I was making initial enquiries last November I approached AIB/EBS, KBC & Ulster Bank. UB's offer was the lowest but I was not already their client so that might make a difference. I think you should try other banks and maybe also a broker. I am going with AIB but because I am on a contract they did ask for extra info - my employer specified that the contract was 'renewable annually' and I sent them also a copy of my CV. Before I started in my current job I had registered with a lot of employment agencies and I still get regular email from a number of those so I sent on examples of some general and specific job offers as well. They were happy enough that I would be able to get work at short notice in a pinch but I should also say that I don't have any dependents and they obviously have to take that into account as well.

It may be cold comfort but I believe you can provide your kids with a home even if you do not own the house - your example of saving, paying your debts and being financially responsible is going to be of more help to them than if they had parents that were mortgaged up to their eyeballs and defaulted on their obligations. I know its tough and when you know the repayment would be less than the rent its extremely frustrating as well - if all else fails on the mortgage front maybe speak to a financial advisor re what would be the next best way you can invest your savings to benefit your kids.

crazy cat lady

I would recommend speaking with a broker. We have just been approved on a single income with 2 dependants. My OH is in full time education.

Good luck

Gatling

dar100 wrote: »

Try some of the voluntary housing bodies

The majority who only take people off the CC hosing lists ,

There are some who are offering standard rental leases in certain parts of the country ,
But getting a permanent home from them the op would have to go through the CC if he and his family haven't already got on the housing list

dar100

Gatling wrote: »

The majority who only take people off the CC hosing lists ,

There are some who are offering standard rental leases in certain parts of the country ,
But getting a permanent home from them the op would have to go through the CC if he and his family haven't already got on the housing list

And why wouldn't he be on the housing list?? I see no reason, considering he has mentioned going for council housing in an earlier post

Gatling

dar100 wrote: »

And why wouldn't he be on the housing list?? I see no reason, considering he has mentioned going for council housing in an earlier post

Could be any number of reasons why he isn't ,

Op made no mention of going for a council house ,somebody suggested if he was refused by 2 banks he could approach the CC ,

Again the voluntary housing groups cherry pick who they want off the housing lists for a better word ,

Mrs OBumble

Diane Selwyn wrote: »

I believe you can provide your kids with a home even if you do not own the house - your example of saving, paying your debts and being financially responsible is going to be of more help to them than if they had parents that were mortgaged up to their eyeballs and defaulted on their obligations.

This + about 1 million.

It's the quality of parenting that makes a home, not the home-ownership.

Kids are resiliant to house-moves and even school moves if the basics are in place.

roofi

Hi all,

Thanks for your valuable inputs.
I have never thought to be council housing as I heard council house estates are not good for families especially having kids or in other way so much anti-social behaviour exist in those estate. Please share your knowledge / exprience if you have or know anyone live in those Council Housing estates with family/kids?

Currently, I live in very peaceful area in Dublin (15). Although, there has been few burglery's attempts were made to smash the car or to steal the cars etc. but over all people living around me are family with kids and educated. Hard working people around me. I know I can move to other part of this Dublin where can get cheaper house but so much dodgy things going on there. So, wouldn't take risk and fear day and night.

My estate agent who look after renting etc. for landlord has been asking for rent increase every year for the last two years and will ask again on the lease renewal. My salary has not been increase for the last 5 years but rent has been. This is another pity on people like me. Even if I apply for FIS, I won't get much. I love my kids and wife and want to give them best place and circumstances for life.

A quick question, is there any situation that I can talk to my landlord directly to buy the house (two bed only) where Bank pay the half (mortgage) and Government pay the half like UK Government currently offer around 10% or more of the total value and banks are more flexible giving mortgage than here in Ireland?

Thanks.

Gatling

roofi wrote: »

Hi all,

Thanks for your valuable inputs.
I have never thought to be council housing as I heard council house estates are not good for families especially having kids or in other way so much anti-social behaviour exist in those estate. Please share your knowledge / exprience if you have or know anyone live in those Council Housing estates with family/kids?

Currently, I live in very peaceful area in Dublin (15). Although, there has been few burglery's attempts were made to smash the car or to steal the cars etc. but over all people living around me are family with kids and educated. Hard working people around me. I know I can move to other part of this Dublin where can get cheaper house but so much dodgy things going on there. So, wouldn't take risk and fear day and night.

There's absolutely nothing wrong in living or raising families in council estates there no more dangerous or no more safer than any other estates private or otherwise ,
Most people who live in council estates are well educated too heck some even have great careers ,
Every place has its downsides but most people fears are based off misconceptions and rumours of ohhhhh look they live in a council estate run they will eat your babies ,

In all serious no estate is perfect or 100% safe or crime free ,

Its not the areas its where you or your family are raised ,
Its how you raise them that's counts ,

Born and raised 27 years in council estate

Moonbeam

If you earn 100k a year it is unreasonable if you earn 20k it is more then reasonable.
I would apply for a council house if you qualify, as there is no harm being on the waiting list and you could be 10 years + on the list anyway.
Also do find out more about council loans and see what they will give you.

Mrs OBumble

Gatling wrote: »

There's absolutely nothing wrong in living or raising families in council estates there no more dangerous or no more safer than any other estates private or otherwise ,
Most people who live in council estates are well educated too heck some even have great careers ...

I fairness, I don't think that's 100% accurate.

Estates in low-income areas have more social problems - whether they're council estates or private sector ones. Or at very least they have different social problems (scummers on the streets, drug dealers targetting local kids).

Council tenants by definition, have low income when they move in.

Certainly some educated people have low incomes (eg because they get sick) but most people who are on low incomes are in low-paying jobs because of lack of education or skills/atpitude.

Over time, thsi changes for some people, so often in established council estates, this effect wears off: some people return to education as adults and then get better jobs, and many parents value education and ensure that their kids get more. Also, some people slowly get better jobs. And eventually they buy, so the area becomes a mixed estate - some council housing, some not.

But newer council estates, or ones where the scummers have won out over the decent folks there is more anti-social behaviour than on average. And bottom line - the council has to house the scummers somewhere, so there will be pockets of problems.

That doesn't mean that all council housing is bad. I most certainly would happily live in many older council estates. But in every city, there ARE some to be avoided, too. The trick is to work out where they are, and make sure you have a good reason why you don't want to be housed there.

Moonbeam

There are also council allocated houses in alot of private estates.

dar100

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I fairness, I don't think that's 100% accurate.

I don't think this post is 100% accurate, also, in fairness

Estates in low-income areas have more social problems - whether they're council estates or private sector ones. Or at very least they have different social problems (scummers on the streets, drug dealers targetting local kids).

So a different social problem, equals Scummers on the streets, drug dealing etc??

Council tenants by definition, have low income when they move in.

By definition?? who's definition?? is there an income threshold one must abide by for social housing?

Certainly some educated people have low incomes (eg because they get sick) but most people who are on low incomes are in low-paying jobs because of lack of education or skills/atpitude.

This is utter BS!, some educated people have low incomes because they get sick?? Not a great example, tbh. Low paid job does not necessarily imply lack of education, and it certainly does not speak to one's aptitude. Huge generalization here

Over time, thsi changes for some people, so often in established council estates, this effect wears off: some people return to education as adults and then get better jobs, and many parents value education and ensure that their kids get more. Also, some people slowly get better jobs. And eventually they buy, so the area becomes a mixed estate - some council housing, some not.

Whether you buy your home or rent it from the Council, says nothing about how you live, and how you interact within that community.

But newer council estates, or ones where the scummers have won out over the decent folks there is more anti-social behaviour than on average. And bottom line - the council has to house the scummers somewhere, so there will be pockets of problems.

Lets not even mention the social inequalities, Government policy on housing and other social matters, which promotes and highly influences the environment in which these "Scummers" have to live in.

That doesn't mean that all council housing is bad. I most certainly would happily live in many older council estates. But in every city, there ARE some to be avoided, too. The trick is to work out where they are, and make sure you have a good reason why you don't want to be housed there.

I think your judgmental attitude is your good reason to avoid these places:D

Kelly06

Op have you looked at the incremental house purchase scheme ? I'm not sure if you even qualify. You may have to put yourself on the housing list, I don't know how much you earn and if your entitled to even go on the housing list cos it is dependant on your household income. Fingal county council do have info on their website on the scheme. Might be your best option!

Mrs OBumble

dar100 wrote: »

I think your judgmental attitude is your good reason to avoid these places:D

Ahh, I see that you've put some extra comments earlier in your quote, so that it looks like I said them.

Let me address the first one, anyway. You added:

dar100 wrote: »

By definition?? who's definition?? is there an income threshold one must abide by for social housing?

And the answer is - yes, there is. It's the government's definition: If you earn over a certain amount (variable depending on number of people in the household), then you are not eligible to move in to council housing. That's why I said, in bold "when they move in".

dar100

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ahh, I see that you've put some extra comments earlier in your quote, so that it looks like I said them.

Let me address the first one, anyway. You added:



And the answer is - yes, there is. It's the government's definition: If you earn over a certain amount (variable depending on number of people in the household), then you are not eligible to move in to council housing. That's why I said, in bold "when they move in".

Apologies, my intention was not to make it look like you said this stuff. It is my response to your post, I'm unsure how to quote individual segments of a post, so I find it easier to do it this way