Soundness test

Marlay

Hi, I've read the threads on this, but just want to make sure I have this right before I start complaining. I'm looking at the cert from a gas boiler service. The 'Annex C Serviced' is checked yes, but the 'soundness test pass' is not checked. On the job report the soundness test is checked as no. Can it be Annex C serviced without a soundness test or have I misunderstood?

Thanks.

scudo2

Marlay wrote: »

Hi, I've read the threads on this, but just want to make sure I have this right before I start complaining. I'm looking at the cert from a gas boiler service. The 'Annex C Serviced' is checked yes, but the 'soundness test pass' is not checked. On the job report the soundness test is checked as no. Can it be Annex C serviced without a soundness test or have I misunderstood?

Thanks.

Any service engineer ( the ones that I know) with any sense of safety will automatically do a soundness test.
Even if the stupid reg's don't insist on it anymore.
A bit like a car service without checking the brakes, in my personal opinion.
Need I say more.....

Marlay

OK thanks. Just wanted to be clear on 'should be done' rather than 'has to be done'. The cert seemed to imply that it was required. I knew from the other posts that the service was minimal at best, but guess I can't complain too much, other than pointing out I'm not happy.

Egass13

scudo2 wrote: »

Any service engineer ( the ones that I know) with any sense of safety will automatically do a soundness test.
Even if the stupid reg's don't insist on it anymore.
A bit like a car service without checking the brakes, in my personal opinion.
Need I say more.....

I can't understand it not being done , it Dsnt take long and it confirms the installation is sound , how can you take responsibility for an appliance but none of the related gas pipe work or other appliances in the same house? Laziness

scudo2

Egass13 wrote: »

I can't understand it not being done , it Dsnt take long and it confirms the installation is sound , how can you take responsibility for an appliance but none of the related gas pipe work or other appliances in the same house? Laziness

Madness more like.

I could personal not leave a job unless I'm 100% happy it's safe.
It's a simple guide line.

shane 007

Annexe C only is a service of the appliance. It only has to soundness test between the appliance isolation valve & the gas valve. Many companies for reasons of speed only do an Annexe C.

What you are looking for is an Annexe E test. This test looks at the whole of the installation, safety wise. It will not include a service of any other appliance other than what is requested but it will look at every installed appliance, all installation pipework, all appliance ventilation, all flues, all pipework soundness & all appliance locations. It will also test the BG emergency control valve at the meter.

Marlay

shane 007 wrote: »

Annexe C only is a service of the appliance. It only has to soundness test between the appliance isolation valve & the gas valve. Many companies for reasons of speed only do an Annexe C.

OK, if just this was done would it be marked somewhere? Does this correspond to the "Soundness test pass" on the cert?

shane 007

Marlay wrote: »

OK, if just this was done would it be marked somewhere? Does this correspond to the "Soundness test pass" on the cert?

Yes & no. Yes the soundness test has passed but that is only from the gas isolation valve under the boiler to the boiler gas valve, approx 6" of pipe!

On the Cert 3, you will have columns & the last 2 are Annexe C & Annexe E. For the appliance that is being certified, look for the corresponding tick or X under the relevant column.
If annexe E is ticked for boiler, then he is stating that he tested it. Then the 4 tick boxes underneath, "appliance location, flue, etc" he will have ticked soundness passed.

Marlay

Right, annex C is yes, annex E is no. Nothing in soundness passed and no flue analysis values, which have always been completed in previous years.

shane 007

Marlay wrote: »

Right, annex C is yes, annex E is no. Nothing in soundness passed and no flue analysis values, which have always been completed in previous years.

I think your answer & a few more answers are all in that post.

Marlay

Yes, understood that, was just stating what was written. Lesson learned for next year.

shane 007

Marlay wrote: »

Yes, understood that, was just stating what was written. Lesson learned for next year.

Generally speaking a gas boiler service would take approx 60 - 90 mins including all tests. Sometime can be longer if issues are found.
I recently had a service that turned into 4 hours as I had to call BG emergency response, hand over, wait for second crew & re-take the job & complete.
Customer got the best €80 service in their life. I even hoovered their front room! They did give a €20 tip though.

anthonyos

4 hours at a job and you dont charge extra one lucky costumer if that was me they have to remortgage the house

anuprising

shane 007 wrote: »

Generally speaking a gas boiler service would take approx 60 - 90 mins including all tests. Sometime can be longer if issues are found.
I recently had a service that turned into 4 hours as I had to call BG emergency response, hand over, wait for second crew & re-take the job & complete.
Customer got the best €80 service in their life. I even hoovered their front room! They did give a €20 tip though.

in what circumstances do you have to 'hand over ' a job to networks ?

I shut down and clamp and go back when they sign off

unless a bad leak on there side I will stay for safety but other than that
cl

shane 007

anuprising wrote: »

in what circumstances do you have to 'hand over ' a job to networks ?

I shut down and clamp and go back when they sign off

unless a bad leak on there side I will stay for safety but other than that
cl

Leak on supply side or ECV passing. In my case, ECV was passing.
30 mile each way trip so it was easier & more productive to do a bit of hoovering in their front room!

shane 007

anuprising wrote: »

in what circumstances do you have to 'hand over ' a job to networks ?

I shut down and clamp and go back when they sign off

unless a bad leak on there side I will stay for safety but other than that
cl

If emergency response is called, as a courtesy I would always wait to handover to them. You get to know the guys & it's always an advantage to know them & get on with them. They have done me a few favours in the past.

Dtp1979

shane 007 wrote: »

Leak on supply side or ECV passing. In my case, ECV was passing.
30 mile each way trip so it was easier & more productive to do a bit of hoovering in their front room!

Hope you didn't use that dewalt

DGOBS

Just to clarify that guy, Annex C does stat the requirement is only 'soundness of the appliance' but that would include not just from the isolation valve to gas valve/tap, but would also include any and all pipework, test points and joints from the gas valve/tap to the burner, i.e. soundness of the appliance not just connected pipework

+++1 that installation soundness 'should' be checked as 'best working practice' when working on a gas installation

shane 007

DGOBS wrote: »

Just to clarify that guy, Annex C does stat the requirement is only 'soundness of the appliance' but that would include not just from the isolation valve to gas valve/tap, but would also include any and all pipework, test points and joints from the gas valve/tap to the burner, i.e. soundness of the appliance not just connected pipework

+++1 that installation soundness 'should' be checked as 'best working practice' when working on a gas installation

Annexe C does not include soundness of supply pipework. Under Annexe C, it states it is gas soundness of the appliance.
Supply pipework falls under Annexe E. If you test supply pipework, then you must carry out a full Annexe E test in order to declare the full Annexe E test criteria.
This was the whole argument a few years back where BG & the like were only carrying out Annexe C with no pipework soundness testing.
If the service guy in this case does not tick Annexe E, it is declaring he did not test it. He is only declaring what he ticks.

DGOBS

Just to clarify that guy, Annex C does stat the requirement is only 'soundness of the appliance' but that would include not just from the isolation valve to gas valve/tap, but would also include any and all pipework, test points and joints from the gas valve/tap to the burner, i.e. soundness of the appliance not just connected pipework

The 'connected pipework' from the appliance isolation valve would be tested as a consequence of verifying the gas valve/tap tightness if done correctly

Who mentioned supply pipework?

shane 007

DGOBS wrote: »

Who mentioned supply pipework?

Whoops! I misread your post. Sorry!
Hard day at golf...