Prime time tonight.

Busted Flat.

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

Yep, The HSE can't even come close to response times achieved in the scottish isles, and they want to take the ambulance service in Dublin provided by the Dublin Fire Brigade ffs.



I'm not sure if that's a justifiably directed comment. I'd imagine most of the mangers with the 100,000 Euro rapid response vehicles parked up outside their houses are not in the 'unions'. And I'd guess Martin Dunne, who thinks he's providing the 'best ambulance service in the world' isn't either!

Correct me if I am mistaken, all public employees are in some organisation whether unions or representative outfit. Isn't that what fooked the country.

Gringo180

greedygoblin wrote: »

Yep. They are being used by some personnel to travel to and from work. One was used to travel from Dublin (place of work) to Donegal where it was left out of service at weekends and for 2 weeks over christmas.

Another (maybe the same one?) was taken across the border to Derry from where it would have been unable to reach an emergency anywhere in the Republic within the reccommended times.

Truely outrageous stuff. Nothing surprises me anymore in this country!

oak5548

ryanch09 wrote: »

Hear what yer man said at the very end? "We have the best ambulance service in the world..."

HAH! I laugh at the stupidity of that statement, clearly he needs to take his head out of his arse and cop on to the state of the service he is paid to run.

He said we have the best in terms of staff training and equipment.

For the most part, the training standards of ambulance staff and the on board equipment they use is top quality, far superior to the US.

The vehicles are top quality too when first received, BUT they dont replace them and they're used far too much so when ambulances get 500,000 miles on the clock and breakdown twice a week then they're in a terrible state.

Ireland performs well there. Its the lack of staff, crews, vehicles, response times and the abuse of management thats absolutely appaling.

Dyr

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Unions.

As opposed to the non union ambulance service in the UK

languagenerd

Watching that made me angry. I know the country's in a mess financially, but healthcare and ambulance provision should be right at the top of the list of priorities, along with Garda funding (I know they never were, even during the boom). But it's a sickening thought that we live in a country where taxes are relatively high but a takeaway pizza arrives faster than an ambulance or the police, even in urban areas near a base/station.

As for the cars - are they meant to be "on call" when they're off? Because I'm not sure how you can be on call when you're a 3hr drive away from work, or over the border technically in another country. If that's the official purpose of the cars, they should never have been allocated to those particular people, especially when there's such a shortage in some counties!

Yer man Dunne isn't winning any favour with that aggressive tone either. I get that he's stuck with limited resources but being so confrontational won't get anyone on side. "The best ambulance service in the world"?! Cop on.

ProfessorPlum

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Correct me if I am mistaken, all public employees are in some organisation whether unions or representative outfit. Isn't that what fooked the country.

You might well be right, (I'm not involved in the service or public service) but I honestly don't think 'the unions' are the problem here. Savage cuts, poor management, and misuse of resources seem to be the primary culprits here. The HSE couldn't organise a pissup in a brewery, and their management of the ambulance service doesn't seem to be any different.

Busted Flat.

Bambi wrote: »

As opposed to the non union ambulance service in the UK

Something that was not raised tonight, the absenteeism in the health service, how does it compare with the UK. Which you state is non union.

Dyr

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Something that was not raised tonight, the absenteeism in the health service, how does it compare with the UK. Which you state is non union.

Ambulance services in the UK are not union, I was just pointing out how daft your comment was

NonBeliever14

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057171652&page=2

Bafucin

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Do not know where to put this thread, looking at Prime Time tonight is truly disturbing, free cars for the top cats, as Callinan said Digusting.

This country has so past so far beyond corrupt it's appalling.

wendell borton

Bambi wrote: »

a lot of the reporting on ambulance coverage does'nt really make sense, if you live out in the under populated arse end of nowhere then you're not going to get an ambulance out to you within 20 minutes

If you live in the arse end of nowhere in rural England or Scotland, which have much lower population densities than here, you can get one.

mad muffin

The story of Ireland. Reads like a drunken degenerate gambler…

Santa Cruz

Singer73 wrote: »

I was disgusted by this. And yer man with his 'best service in the world'? Get a grip fella. Name and shame. There is most probably a union involved too, for
Protection...

We're probably the "best small country in the world to get sick in and need and ambulance"

Turtwig

Thought it was a very poor documentary creeping from the seams with bias. There are undoubtedly issues with first responders coverage but I felt the documentary had a narrative it wanted to spin instead of objectively assessing the standard of our ambulance service and present this picture to the viewer.

howamidifferent

Jernal wrote: »

Thought it was a very poor documentary creeping from the seams with bias. There are undoubtedly issues with first responders coverage but I felt the documentary had a narrative it wanted to spin instead of objectively assessing the standard of our ambulance service and present this picture to the viewer.

That you Martin?

jimd2

vicwatson wrote: »

What county is Martin Dunne from anyone know?

Originally from Trim Co. Meath afaik.

Including the uniforms in the "best in the world" comments showed him up in pretty bad light.

Busted Flat.

jimd2 wrote: »

Originally from Trim Co. Meath afaik.

Including the uniforms in the "best in the world" comments showed him up in pretty bad light.

The only way for him is to be promoted, the only way is up if you make a mistake in the HSE, fook peoples lives. I suppose the first response unit is in Donegal tonight instead of being outside the the call center where its needed.
Simple question, how much fuel does it take for regular journeys like that. Then the people in charge say they are short of resource's. Is this sort of travel taken into account in benefit in kind tax, if so how much do these guys owe in back taxes. Or am I asking a stupid question.

Turtwig

You are possibly asking the wrong question. My understanding is the vehicle in Donegal is on call in Donegal. It doesn't have to be in a call center. I'd love to know how expenses and like are broken down but I don't think the vehicles are being abused as the program painted. One also needs to consider that any new system or alterations will have growing pains and chinks. The extent of misappropriation is important.

Busted Flat.

Jernal wrote: »

You are possibly asking the wrong question. My understanding is the vehicle in Donegal is on call in Donegal. It doesn't have to be in a call center. I'd love to know how expenses and like are broken down but I don't think the vehicles are being abused as the program painted. One also needs to consider that any new system or alterations will have growing pains and chinks. The extent of misappropriation is important.

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the program state that the driver worked in Limerick and lived in Donegal.

Turtwig

Something like that. His vehicle is still an asset in whatever area it's in. So he can be called on emergency in Donegal.

mikehunts

From what Dunne said on the radio this morning, if the driver goes home to Donegal he will be on call up there.

Busted Flat.

Jernal wrote: »

Something like that. His vehicle is still an asset in whatever area it's in. So he can be called on emergency in Donegal.

Apologist come out when the fiddle is exposed.

emo72

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Apologist come out when the fiddle is exposed.

it does sound like "cover your ass" bollixology to be honest. we are sceptical

crackcrack30

mikehunts wrote: »

From what Dunne said on the radio this morning, if the driver goes home to Donegal he will be on call up there.

Does that mean that if they are on call 365 days & and paid on call have vehicle for on call 365 days ect ect........ but decide to have a glass of wine or a pint & get a call ... should they go ,stay or abstain??


If you are on call , paid on call and provided with equipment to be on call you should be always available.......(a complete lie)

Busted Flat.

mikehunts wrote: »

From what Dunne said on the radio this morning, if the driver goes home to Donegal he will be on call up there.

That was not mentioned in last nights program. Neither when they were parked outside these para!!! homes at Christmas.

Turtwig

emo72 wrote: »

it does sound like "cover your ass" bollixology to be honest. we are sceptical

Not really. I assumed it while watching the program. Tellingly, they only gave a third hand vague account of a controller when saying the vehicles were unavailable. Surely they could have got something concrete. Stay in Donegal and see if he's ever deployed there. Shouldn't be too hard. Could have asked the neighbors. They'd know. They also provided no baseline in the statistics on the number of calls responded to by these vehicles. So we have no idea whether they're being under utilised or stretched to breaking point. In fact all we know is vague stuff about fuel allowances, lovely journalist fodder, but it's too vague to tell us anything concrete. So while the impression the documentary provides is of a **** first response service. The documentary doesn't actually provide anything to concrete support it being ****e or excellent. We're left in a vague imprecise darkness.

crackcrack30

Jernal wrote: »

Not really. I assumed it while watching the program. Tellingly, they only gave a third hand vague account of a controller when saying the vehicles were unavailable. Surely they could have got something concrete. Stay in Donegal and see if he's ever deployed there. Shouldn't be too hard. Could have asked the neighbors. They'd know. They also provided no baseline in the statistics on the number of calls responded to by these vehicles. So we have no idea whether they're being under utilised or stretched to breaking point. In fact all we know is vague stuff about fuel allowances, lovely journalist fodder, but it's too vague to tell us anything concrete. So while the impression the documentary provides is of a **** first response service. The documentary doesn't actually provide anything to concrete support it being ****e or excellent. We're left in a vague imprecise darkness.

What documentary were you watching jernal?

ProfessorPlum

Jernal wrote: »

Not really. I assumed it while watching the program. Tellingly, they only gave a third hand vague account of a controller when saying the vehicles were unavailable. Surely they could have got something concrete. Stay in Donegal and see if he's ever deployed there. Shouldn't be too hard. Could have asked the neighbors. They'd know. They also provided no baseline in the statistics on the number of calls responded to by these vehicles. So we have no idea whether they're being under utilised or stretched to breaking point. In fact all we know is vague stuff about fuel allowances, lovely journalist fodder, but it's too vague to tell us anything concrete. So while the impression the documentary provides is of a **** first response service. The documentary doesn't actually provide anything to concrete support it being ****e or excellent. We're left in a vague imprecise darkness.

I 'vaguely' remember the statistic that the managers' first responce vehicles were called on average once every 3 weeks. I'd say that's an under utilisation.
I also heard this morning that Mr Dunne himself was on call while he was on the radio. What in gods name is the guy who is supposed to manage doing being a first responder - that is also a massive under utilisation. There are hundreds of paramedics that can do that job, and only 1 that can be in charge. So be in charge Mr Dunne. It's like sending Enda to deliver the post if they're short a postman. Major overhaul needed.

Busted Flat.

Jernal wrote: »

Not really. I assumed it while watching the program. Tellingly, they only gave a third hand vague account of a controller when saying the vehicles were unavailable. Surely they could have got something concrete. Stay in Donegal and see if he's ever deployed there. Shouldn't be too hard. Could have asked the neighbors. They'd know. They also provided no baseline in the statistics on the number of calls responded to by these vehicles. So we have no idea whether they're being under utilised or stretched to breaking point. In fact all we know is vague stuff about fuel allowances, lovely journalist fodder, but it's too vague to tell us anything concrete. So while the impression the documentary provides is of a **** first response service. The documentary doesn't actually provide anything to concrete support it being ****e or excellent. We're left in a vague imprecise darkness.

Open your eyes, a guy works in Limerick and lives in Donegal, gets company car and gets free fuel to go to work and back, is there tax liabilities.
On another point when this guy went home for the weekend on his free car and fuel, it would be helpful to know did the emergency service know he was available with his free car to attend to an incident. There has to be some sort of a record at head office. Something like there is one of our guys heading home with a €100.000 emergency first response unit and will be available in the north west for the next 3 days. Questions need to be answered. Peoples lives are at risk while these guys travel for free.

NonBeliever14

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057171652&page=2

Turtwig

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

I 'vaguely' remember the statistic that the managers' first responce vehicles were called on average once every 3 weeks. I'd say that's an under utilisation.
I also heard this morning that Mr Dunne himself was on call while he was on the radio. What in gods name is the guy who is supposed to manage doing being a first responder - that is also a massive under utilisation. There are hundreds of paramedics that can do that job, and only 1 that can be in charge. So be in charge Mr Dunne. It's like sending Enda to deliver the post if they're short a postman. Major overhaul needed.

But we have no baseline. So we don't know whether this 3 weeks is efficient or inefficient waste. You're making an assumption with no knowledge of the actual service parameters. Fair point on Mr dune, on call while being head honcho is odd. I suppose if you got the skills we must use them, but that seems to indicate a resource strain. But then maybe every ambulance service does this. Maybe the equivalent in the UK is also on call while talking to press.

One thing to clarify though, was this morning Ireland? In that he mentioned he was out on call before the prime time shows broadcast. I'd love to know if he was on call while live on air. Just like to rule out misunderstanding first. As as you said it does seem odd.

Turtwig

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Open your eyes, a guy works in Limerick and lives in Donegal, gets company car and gets free fuel to go to work and back, is there tax liabilities.
On another point when this guy went home for the weekend on his free car and fuel, it would be helpful to know did the emergency service know he was available with his free car to attend to an incident. There has to be some sort of a record at head office. Something like there is one of our guys heading home with a €100.000 emergency first response unit and will be available in the north west for the next 3 days. Questions need to be answered. Peoples lives are at risk while these guys travel for free.

All vehicles location are known at all times are they not?

We don't know the breakdown of what benefits, if any, these people get. We definitely need to know. But like I said the explanation of the fuel exploiting was vague.

jimd2

Jernal wrote: »

Something like that. His vehicle is still an asset in whatever area it's in. So he can be called on emergency in Donegal.

But is it part of an organised programme where location is determined by location/ population demographics etc and not randomly depending on where these employees live?

Martin Dunne mentioned on the radio that he had been on call himself the night before. Commendable in one sense in that he is prepared to work as required but worrying in another sense in that his work could be at a low enough level and not doing the leadership / analytical / planning required in an organisation like the ambulance service. I wonder is he working very hard at one level but not achieving at another level, for example I wonder has he made a good enough case for resources. Also was he sold a pup in buying those vehicles when additional actual ambulances were what was needed?

These are issues that can be life or death....massively important.

NonBeliever14

what happens in other ambulance services?

Do other ambulance services use ORVs and RRVs?

NAS staff prefer their Managers to be "qualified" in the same way that AGS or Fire Services like (AGS) or would like (FS). In Ireland, you PHECC are moving to a model of registration (similar to the HCPC in the UK) where you cannot be "qualified" unless you can demonstrate you "practice". In NAS, the only realistic option for Officers (Managers) to do this is on a voluntary basis out of hours.

Emergency calls are only one reason a Manager might be called out. The list can be viewed on the relevant procedure on the HSE website.