Estate Agent Tactics

Fruit1985

Hello,

I've been trying to buy an apartment in Dublin for the past few months and have yet to be successful. Any property that I am interested in the estate agent claims to have risen in price. I get other friends to ring the estate agents and they tell my friend a different price!

How is this allowed? Is there anything I can do to trust them. Anyone have any experience with specific estate agents they'd recommend?

K

godtabh

Fruit1985 wrote: »

Hello,

I've been trying to buy an apartment in Dublin for the past few months and have yet to be successful. Any property that I am interested in the estate agent claims to have risen in price. I get other friends to ring the estate agents and they tell my friend a different price!

How is this allowed? Is there anything I can do to trust them. Anyone have any experience with specific estate agents they'd recommend?

K

They are trying to maximize the price for their clients. Simples

Fruit1985

Their commission more like.

Is there anything I can do - rather than get a friend to ring up each time to check how honest/dishonest they are?

Ken.

Fruit1985 wrote: »

Their commission more like.

Is there anything I can do - rather than get a friend to ring up each time to check how honest/dishonest they are?

I don't want to seem harsh but you probably need to toughen up. Estate agents can tell in a second they have a sap on the line and will exploit it. Your friend probably sounds tougher.

Another option is have your friend with you at all times and let them do the talking.

mudabi

Decide how much it is worth to you, make an offer and stick to it.

the_syco

Fruit1985 wrote: »

Their commission more like.

Their job is to get the max amount. Having your friend ring up tells the EA that there is interest in the house, and thus can rise the price. You losing the house each time sounds like getting your mates to ring the EA is backfiring!

ArraMusha

Auctioneers are your enemy. They will lie deceive and whisper anything down the phone to hard working descent people to get the last drop of hard earned they have. And then they'll come back like vultures and finish off the carcas.
Phantom bidders....etc. they do it. Full stop.

The golden rule = HARDEN THE F UP.

No chit chat...facts only. "Good luck"(as the man said to Liam Neeson)

mudabi

And from my experience lately the majority of them have learned nothing from the last 6 years. Same bull**** tactics starting to emerge again.

Woodville56

Isn't there a case for some type of formal official register of bids that prospective buyers should be able to view , obviously without disclosing personal details of other bidders ?
Is there any regulatory agency for EA's apart from their own professional body ? If not , there should be .
Anyone know if there is proper regulation of this business elsewhere in Europe that we could adopt here , if Government had a mind too ?
The perennial stories of ordinary folk being messed around by EA's warrant some sort of regulation of this practice. While their job is to maximise the sale price of a property for the vendor, this shouldn't include the trickery , deception and false information given to prospective buyers in order to enhance their commission and prospective buyers shouldn't have to "toughen up" or resort to similar bluff and subterfuge when dealing with a so called professional body!
I bet some vendors don't know the half of the shenanigans that EA's acting on their behalf get up to !!

The_Morrigan

katief101 wrote: »

Hi,

We have been having a bad and frustrating experience with one particular EA in our area and was wondering if anyone has experienced anything similar or is this just the norm with estate agents?

The first house we viewed had been on the market for almost 3 years. We rang and arranged a viewing and in the meantime received a number of phonecalls to say there were 2 bidders currently bidding on the house at it was at price x. When we arrived at the viewing, before he even put the key in the door he said it was going to close in the next few days and we would need to move quick. We didn't pursue it further as the house was too small anyway and months later it's still on the market.

Our second experience was even more bizarre. We got 2 phonecalls from the EA prior to the viewing to say the bid on it had risen (25k above asking price, the second bid being 20k more) and did we still want to view the house. We said we would and arrived at the house to be told that the sale was closing that day!! Why would he be showing us the house if the sale was closing that day? To make things worse after showing us the house he wanted to know 'what we were going to do'! We said we hadn't even spoken to each other yet and it was only our first viewing!! He then wanted to know when we would let him know by and it was probably too much for us anyway! He then kept pushing and pushing for an answer, it was unbelievable!

We rang again quite recently about another property, again this one was on the market a long time and low and behold another phoncall from the EA 2 days later to say it was at price x and are we still interested.

Is it the norm for them to keep ringing and informing us of bids prior to a viewing? I mean we haven't even seen the house yet and have no idea what we are willing to pay.

It is also the norm to show someone a house when it's 'closing' that same day and put pressure on them at the viewing to make a decision?

Katie
There is already an active thread on this topic, so I've merged your thread into it.


Morri

Orchid

I am posting this as I believe this will never change if we just let it go and do nothing about it.

<SNIP>

As you can see the asking price is just amazing for the type of property, it's also a lovely estate in my opinion. No doubt there were plenty of people interested in it.

This is the timeline of the events shortly.

Property got listed on daft.ie on 27.03.2014. I contacted the estate agent the same day to arrange a viewing. I was told the earliest available was a block viewing on Thursday, 03.04.2014, between 4pm and 5pm.

We turned up at the address at 4:45 pm on Thursday, 03.04.2014 straight after work The house was locked. We waited around at at about 5 pm my husband called the estate agent on his mobile number. There was no answer but he left a message with our details asking him to call us back. There was no call back on the Thursday or the following day.

On Friday 04.04.2014 I called the estate agent again on the office number as he wasn't answering the mobile and said to the lady I spoke to that we were very interested in the property and I asked for a viewing. I was told we will be contacted back by the estate agent responsible. There was no phone call back from the estate agent.

05 and 06.04.2014 was the weekend.

Оn 07.04. 2014 (today) my husband called the estate agent office number again first thing in the morning. They tried to deter him by saying that there were already two offers for this property. He told them that we were also interested in putting in an offer. He also told them that we have already left a few messages that were not returned. They told him they will get the responsible estate agent to contact him back. An hour later the estate agent made contact saying it was too late and the property was sale agreed.

So in the space of one working day they have went into sale agreed completely ignoring the strong interest we were expressing in this property. No apology or explanation was offered.

I am convinced that whoever is selling this property did not get the best price for it as we, and no doubt many more other people, were prevented from bidding on it by the estate agent.

I was wondering if there is any point in putting in a complaint about this estate agent to the authority that regulates them? We have never dealt with this estate agent before but what they did on this occasion is very dodgy.

I was also hoping that, if any person has had the same experience with them for this or another property, they will get inspiration from this post and will send their own complaint. As nothing will ever change if we just let things go every time something like this happens.

Woodville56

Orchid;89824858"So in the space of one working day they have went into sale agreed completely ignoring the strong interest we were expressing in this property. No apology or explanation was offered.

The EA probably had someone lined up for the property already or maybe the seller trying to pull a fast one to keep a bank at bay ? I wonder is the house sold at all ?? Keep an eye on the Property Price Register over the coming months for sight of the sale price ! Alternatively if you could find out the name of the vendor and approach them directly ??
From watching posts on dealings with EA's here and from our own experience, seems anything goes as far as they are concerned, most of them treat prospective buyers with no small amount of discourtesy and couldn't care less attitude! And it appears that there's little a buyer like yourself can do to penalise this type of behaviour.

Orchid

I was wondering if there is any point putting in a complaint? .... And what is the point in the regulatory authority if ultimately everything is up to the estate agent and both the buyers and the sellers may end up being cheated...

Pat Mustard

One of my experiences with auctioneers:

I put a bid on a house that had been on the market for at least six months. When I went to see it, the auctioneer told me that there was an offer on it for the guide price. I put a bid on the house, only to hear back that the 'underbidder' had made a higher offer. I walked away from the house for several reasons, but the house never sold. It was a 'phantom bidder' situation.

Auctioneers will try to extract information from you to see how far you may be prepared to go to buy the property. Typical questions will be; 'is it for yourself?' (as opposed to to a buy-to-let situation). It sounds innocuous enough, but don't tell let them know that you are a first time buyer. First time buyers are eager to buy, and they will stretch themselves in order to buy. So don't tell the auctioneer that it's 'for yourself'. Also be aware that during the property boom, auctioneers were a little more reluctant to sell new homes to investors, as they sometimes perceived investors to be less careful with the appearance of the property, which might affect their sales of the remaining new properties.

I think that a lot of first time buyers go to see properties to find one that they like. Then they bid on that one house. While the bidding goes on, the auctioneer will try to get everybody to bid as high as they can, to extract the maximum price for the house. Only one bidder is successful. All of the other bidders are disappointed, and they start the process all over again in relation to one other house.

This is a painful and time consuming mistake, in my view. Given the system that is there, buyers would be better off finding maybe ten acceptable houses and bidding on them all. Of the bids that are accepted, select the best house, and tell the other auctioneers to go fcuk themselves.

After all, that is what they are paid to do to you.

One classic auctioneer line:
"The other bidder has gone to France, and we haven't heard back. Do you want to take the house for the amount of his bid?"

Yeah, because they don't have phones in France.

roy rodgers

good points the mustard.. I think we will be taking a leaf out of your book.
We looked at a house a week ago and the EA told us that there has been no offers on the house and no one was looking at it or booked in to look at it.
Its on the market about 2 months now and was rented out but the tenants have now left. We offered the asking price 170000 and was told someone will get back to us , which they never so rang them today and was told that the vender was now looking to get 30000 more for the house. well I said well that's over our price and we are at our max as it is and that another house came on the market at the weekend from another EA and we were going to look at the one. Well then she tried to say that the other house is in terrible condition and that she knows it and if anything changes she will be in touch..
so she wants 200000 for the house and not the 170000 so why waste my time going to view it in the first place and why do they advertise a house for a price that they are not looking for???
The whole rules and regulation of EA has to be looked at, they are more corrupt than your politicians. do they not realize its peoples life's they are playing with.

TheDriver

Its not always the EAs though, I have had similar issues but with vendors. Everything from trying to do side deals that weren't above board to asking for a particular amount, being offered it and then not wanting to sell. Some sellers should be told by the EAs where to go and get delisted.
There are a few EAs in my town that I dread when they have a house for sale.............

Fruit1985

Since I started this thread my strategy to buy is to make an offer for what I think the property is worth and stick with it. If the estate agent f**ks me about I move onto the next property. It's the only way to circumvent their lies.

I still haven't found a place though.

roy rodgers

Thats the problem with these EA They have us over a barrel. For a while I wouldn't look at certain houses because I couldnt trust the EA but that soon changed when you realise that you got to bite the bullet and stick with your plan. Dont get into a bidding war with anyone and the EA will see this with you after a few houses different house and hopefully see that your in push over.
And offer as close to the asking price straight away if you thinl it is worth it.

spaceHopper

Orchid wrote: »

I was wondering if there is any point putting in a complaint? .... And what is the point in the regulatory authority if ultimately everything is up to the estate agent and both the buyers and the sellers may end up being cheated...

There is no point, but you showed up very late to the block booking you should have been there earlier.

spaceHopper

Read about one ea bragging on a forum, once the bidder calls them they know you are keen. Go to see a lot of houses, let them know that you have finance arranged not in a chain and are ready to close. Go to see several of their properties even ones that are "nice houses but not for me", let them think you are waiting to hear about another house but are still looking till then. When you make an offer try to make it in a Friday afternoon, yours is then the only offer the ea has to communicate to the vendor and they will be thinking about it all weekend. If a better offer is made then don't be in a rush to respond give it a day, you have to talk to the oh, run the numbers....see what any other bidders do the either raise it a small amount to if you feel the house will go for much more take it higher. Do your home work, know what other houses have sold for, what you can afford.... don't be shy about using email most ea's have a smat phone so will see emails while waiting for people to arrive at a viewing os to look around.

TheDriver

roy rodgers wrote: »

And offer as close to the asking price straight away if you thinl it is worth it.

I tried that once, the vendor thought there would be a queue at the door of like minded people and all the bidders would come at once.......its still for sale.

murph226

Would it be common for dodgy EA's to go as far as marking the property as sale agreed when trying to squeeze more money out of a buyer?

coolbeans

I know it's not fair on the good ones but by **** I hate estate agents. The lowest of the low in many cases. End rant.

BeatNikDub

katief101 wrote: »

Is it the norm for them to keep ringing and informing us of bids prior to a viewing? I mean we haven't even seen the house yet and have no idea what we are willing to pay.

It is also the norm to show someone a house when it's 'closing' that same day and put pressure on them at the viewing to make a decision?

Yes, if the property has been on a while and the vendor is anxious to do a deal rather than just continue viewing the agent may call you to see if you are in a position to move quickly as the vendor is anxious to do get things closed off, rather than wasting your time if you are say only starting to look. They may have an offer on the table already the vendor is happy with but would give a courtesy call to you to fill you in on the status of the campaign rather than just cancel.

Also if you book an appt and in the mean time the bids go considerably higher it would be courteous of an EA to call to inform you in case it had gone over your price range and to save you wasting time also.

Note I am not an EA myself but have worked in many offices over the years and have always found there are two sides to every story! Although I think I have been lucky in the places I worked, have heard some horror stories!

BeatNikDub

roy rodgers wrote: »

good points the mustard.. I think we will be taking a leaf out of your book.
We looked at a house a week ago and the EA told us that there has been no offers on the house and no one was looking at it or booked in to look at it.
Its on the market about 2 months now and was rented out but the tenants have now left. We offered the asking price 170000 and was told someone will get back to us , which they never so rang them today and was told that the vender was now looking to get 30000 more for the house. well I said well that's over our price and we are at our max as it is and that another house came on the market at the weekend from another EA and we were going to look at the one. Well then she tried to say that the other house is in terrible condition and that she knows it and if anything changes she will be in touch..
so she wants 200000 for the house and not the 170000 so why waste my time going to view it in the first place and why do they advertise a house for a price that they are not looking for???
The whole rules and regulation of EA has to be looked at, they are more corrupt than your politicians. do they not realize its peoples life's they are playing with.

The vendor probably saw the market is rising and wants more money, the EA has to honour that regardless.

TheDriver

BeatNikDub wrote: »

The vendor probably saw the market is rising and wants more money, the EA has to honour that regardless.

anytime I have seen this in my local town, it remains for sale for a considerable time afterwards.
Same with EAs who put up the price and drop it again.

One EA in my town has a habit of dropping the price of the house just before sale agreed to get any other interested parties in.

A point about vendors which annoys the crap out of me. You go see a house and they expect say 150. Price drops and you approach again and they still expect the same amount...........many vendors don't get the idea of a price drop and equally the queue at the door will be peed off by that crap.

Orchid

spaceHopper wrote: »

There is no point, but you showed up very late to the block booking you should have been there earlier.

I don't think we have showed up very late. If a viewing is open between 4 and 5 you would expect that it will be still ongoing at 4:45. And when we got there he wasn't just locking up or anything which suggests that he left much earlier before that ... If he ever did it. And at the end of the day the reason why we weren't there at 4 on the dot is we work for a living... Ah, until this is better regulated nothing is ever going to change. I still decided to go ahead and make that complaint even if nothing comes out if it. Otherwise nothing will ever change.

TheDriver

I have heard of EAs making complaints about other EAs to the PSR so it must have some effect if they believe in it themselves........

BeatNikDub

TheDriver wrote: »

anytime I have seen this in my local town, it remains for sale for a considerable time afterwards.
Same with EAs who put up the price and drop it again.

One EA in my town has a habit of dropping the price of the house just before sale agreed to get any other interested parties in.

A point about vendors which annoys the crap out of me. You go see a house and they expect say 150. Price drops and you approach again and they still expect the same amount...........many vendors don't get the idea of a price drop and equally the queue at the door will be peed off by that crap.

It's a risk indeed but unfortunately I have seen their greed win in the end. Pretty deflating tbh.

Ray Palmer

All this talk reminds me of the "No Nonsense Insurance" ads where the guy say you ring around in different voices at different times to get a different quote.
Most of what is being said here is wild speculation on a transaction you don't have transparency on. I don't trust agents of any type as they are not really working for you at any point.
Commissions are not much different for an agent on the values people are talking about so they really aren't holding out for a bigger commission as it means so much more work for not much financial gain. They make the most money by quick turn around.

The most likely resistance to selling a house is going to be the vendor instructing the agent. Nothing really complicated other than listing at a lower price than expected/desired on properties.

If you want a house for 170k don't look for property listed at that price look at those for 150k-160k because they are actually the ones in your price range.

Unless you are actively talking to your TDs about changing the process you might as well accept the reality and work with it. You aren't going to get anywhere sticking to moral view that has no baring on reality. If you walk away from every bidding war the agents will stop dealing with you and will not let you know about the properties as they come on the market.

No point cutting your nose off despite your face.

Pat Mustard

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Unless you are actively talking to your TDs about changing the process you might as well accept the reality and work with it. You aren't going to get anywhere sticking to moral view that has no baring on reality. If you walk away from every bidding war the agents will stop dealing with you and will not let you know about the properties as they come on the market.

No point cutting your nose off despite your face.

I agree with this.

If you want to buy a second-hand property, you may have to bid on several of them at any one time, before one bid will be accepted. It's probably more efficient to bid on a number of properties at once, rather than one after the other, considering the lack of transparency with regard to bidding in the Irish property market.

Our system can be contrasted with other countries, where they have sealed bids, opened at once. I have spoken to three Australian estate agents, and I heard a little about the systems that they have regarding property sales. In New South Wales, for instance, I was told that the estate agent owes a duty of care to the buyer (in addition to that which is presumably owed to his client, the seller), in relation to the price of the property. If the property sells for too much money, the estate agent could be liable to the buyer, or so I was assured over a few beers, at any rate. Perhaps I should know better than to trust an auctioneer.

Also, there is one other exit from the rat-race here. New properties. If you offer the asking price, it is usually accepted without further ado. The only problem being that there are fewer new properties now, than there were maybe 6 or 7 years ago.