Sony Woes continues , is it the end of playstation as we know it ?

Otacon

.ak wrote: »

Wasn't the PS4 the biggest selling launch console or something? I fail to see how Sony would struggle if they're hitting their targets?

PlayStation is only one part of Sony's business. Their TV and smartphones divisions have been losing them money for years.

.ak wrote: »

Why do they sell consoles if there is no mark up on them?

Console makers get their money from licencing their tech to developers.

Mantis Toboggan

.ak wrote: »

Why do they sell consoles if there is no mark up on them?

It's like phone companies who subsidise phone. Their products are relatively expensive, but they want as many people as possible to buy them so that they can sell you services and get your money that way.

elfy4eva

.ak wrote: »

Why do they sell consoles if there is no mark up on them?

Compared to games there is very little mark up on consoles anyway.

The idea as I understand it; is to bring the console brand in as cheap as possible to attract more people to buy it. Once people have the console all the games they'll be buying for it will have a huge markup vs. the cost of making the copy of the game. (not including game development costs).

gizmo

.ak wrote: »

Why do they sell consoles if there is no mark up on them?

The platform holders essentially get a cut of every game sold via licencing fees.

nullzero

Perhaps the recession may have a part to play in people not buying new consoles. Just putting it out there, being the most logical explanation etc...

FlyingIrishMan

nullzero wrote: »

Perhaps the recession may have a part to play in people not buying new consoles. Just putting it out there, being the most logical explanation etc...

Except people are buying consoles in more numbers than ever before..

Varik

nullzero wrote: »

Perhaps the recession may have a part to play in people not buying new consoles. Just putting it out there, being the most logical explanation etc...

Are you referring to the PS3 now?

In that case it was released beforehand, and if you're on about the PS4 then that's outselling most things.

Forest Demon

Its actually a good thing for Sony that they are closing down the loss making areas of their business. They made too many devices and became a bureaucratic mess. Innovation was lost in a lot of areas and they were overshadowed by apple and samsung (and nokia before they went the same as sony) in particular. Microsoft are no better and if it was not for the OS and licensing cash cow they would also be in trouble. Just look at the long line of failed tablets, ereaders, walkmen, phones, tvs, etc. Always one step behind and trying to launch proprietary devices, media and eco systems.

Playstation has the greatest potential for sony along with its movie and music business. They are concentrating on their core strengths and that can only be good for the Playstation brand. No matter what happens the brand will live on as long as there is a demand. Ownership and management might change but that is probably no harm. Sony make good hardware but I am still not convinced by their online service and support. I have always had a better experience on xbox live. Pity MS have lost the plot from a strategic perspective. I am sure there are many frustrated people in MS having to listen to accountants and MBAs who are pushing the company in the wrong directions. Their launch of the XBO was cringeworthy. Sony did not do anything amazing with the PS4 but at least they listened to the customer. Despite their promises I don't see the quality increase on Sony's online service. I dont care for free arcade games personally. More regional dedicated quality servers needed in games.

C14N

I'm not sure why OP thinks the Playstation brand isn't strong. PS3 sold over 80 million units which still edges it ahead of the 360. Right now the PS brand appears to be the strongest of the 3, PS4 sales are ahead of XBO and quickly catching up to the Wii U. Why would you think the brand has been weak for 10 years? (bearing in mind that 10 years ago people were still buying PS2s in droves)

FlyingIrishMan

C14N wrote: »

I'm not sure why OP thinks the Playstation brand isn't strong. PS3 sold over 80 million units which still edges it ahead of the 360. Right now the PS brand appears to be the strongest of the 3, PS4 sales are ahead of XBO and quickly catching up to the Wii U. Why would you think the brand has been weak for 10 years? (bearing in mind that 10 years ago people were still buying PS2s in droves)

Already passed WiiU sales*

C14N

FlyingIrishMan wrote: »

Already passed WiiU sales*

I stand corrected, although thanks for strengthening my point. The Wii U really is selling horribly right now. It's like 5:1 for PS4:Wii U.

_Redzer_

Forest Demon wrote: »

Its actually a good thing for Sony that they are closing down the loss making areas of their business. They made too many devices and became a bureaucratic mess. Innovation was lost in a lot of areas and they were overshadowed by apple and samsung (and nokia before they went the same as sony) in particular. Microsoft are no better and if it was not for the OS and licensing cash cow they would also be in trouble. Just look at the long line of failed tablets, ereaders, walkmen, phones, tvs, etc. Always one step behind and trying to launch proprietary devices, media and eco systems.

Playstation has the greatest potential for sony along with its movie and music business. They are concentrating on their core strengths and that can only be good for the Playstation brand. No matter what happens the brand will live on as long as there is a demand. Ownership and management might change but that is probably no harm. Sony make good hardware but I am still not convinced by their online service and support. I have always had a better experience on xbox live. Pity MS have lost the plot from a strategic perspective. I am sure there are many frustrated people in MS having to listen to accountants and MBAs who are pushing the company in the wrong directions. Their launch of the XBO was cringeworthy. Sony did not do anything amazing with the PS4 but at least they listened to the customer. Despite their promises I don't see the quality increase on Sony's online service. I dont care for free arcade games personally. More regional dedicated quality servers needed in games.

You're forgetting their cameras which are one of the best in the industry, they're also entering the medical devices field -and last I read were doing well there too.

It's a shame about their TV devision being sold off. They are fantastic, but very expensive. If they reduced the build quality to match Samsung pricing I'd guarantee they'd quickly out class them. Sony build to last, Samsung do not, and with the market full of perpetual upgraders they lost out.

Captain Chaos

_Redzer_ wrote: »

It's a shame about their TV devision being sold off. They are fantastic, but very expensive. If they reduced the build quality to match Samsung pricing I'd guarantee they'd quickly out class them. Sony build to last, Samsung do not, and with the market full of perpetual upgraders they lost out.

In my experience Smmy HDTVs outclass Bravias in picture, build quality and price. I have had 3 Bravias, all developed faults after 12-18 months. I have 4 Sammy HDTVs, never a problem with any of them and one is almost 9 years old and still going strong. Glad Sony ditched the Bravia range as Samsung and LG were out classing them is quality and price across the board.

richymcdermott

C14N wrote: »

I'm not sure why OP thinks the Playstation brand isn't strong. PS3 sold over 80 million units which still edges it ahead of the 360. Right now the PS brand appears to be the strongest of the 3, PS4 sales are ahead of XBO and quickly catching up to the Wii U. Why would you think the brand has been weak for 10 years? (bearing in mind that 10 years ago people were still buying PS2s in droves)

I have already explained despite ps3 selling 80 million in the end the ps3 was so expensive sony were forced ( not by choice ) to drop the price near half of its orginal cost and they lost too much money to recoup loses and take in to account the hacking in 2011 that was damaging to them and with the psp piracy and the bogus devices of psp go that no one bought.

Ps4 sales may be ahead but just how much exactly is sony getting for selling each ps4 console ? They are not getting a hefty profit from what I read awhile back.

_Redzer_

Captain Chaos wrote: »

In my experience Smmy HDTVs outclass Bravias in picture, build quality and price. I have had 3 Bravias, all developed faults after 12-18 months. I have 4 Sammy HDTVs, never a problem with any of them and one is almost 9 years old and still going strong. Glad Sony ditched the Bravia range as Samsung and LG were out classing them is quality and price across the board.

Really? There's a pretty new Samsung at home and it has backlighting issues and the contrast and shadow detail just isn't as good. I've always seen reviews praise sony TVs over Samsung, with that and panasonic outclassing them

Suppose it's just a difference in opinion.

C14N

_Redzer_ wrote: »

It's a shame about their TV devision being sold off. They are fantastic, but very expensive. If they reduced the build quality to match Samsung pricing I'd guarantee they'd quickly out class them. Sony build to last, Samsung do not, and with the market full of perpetual upgraders they lost out.

In my experience, Bravias and Samsungs have had displays in the same quality at every price point.

richymcdermott wrote: »

I have already explained despite ps3 selling 80 million in the end the ps3 was so expensive sony were forced ( not by choice ) to drop the price near half of its orginal cost and they lost too much money to recoup loses and take in to account the hacking in 2011 that was damaging to them and with the psp piracy and the bogus devices of psp go that no one bought.

Ps4 sales may be ahead but just how much exactly is sony getting for selling each ps4 console ? They are not getting a hefty profit from what I read awhile back.

But that still doesn't affect the strength of the brand. Badly managed finances doesn't change the fact that the name Playstation has a lot of strength behind it and is drawing a large number of customers in the home console field. Currently the name is associated with both high-quality games and a lot of good will still left over from their E3 show last year. I would say it's been as strong as the Xbox brand for the past few years and is currently the strongest of the 3.

richymcdermott

All 3 companies are equal to me and none really outshines the other. In contrast To the ps4 at the moment its in this position because Wii u never took off the way nintendo wanted it to and that's by there own hands with poor marketing and no hype after its launch and left the console in the dessert.

Microsoft screwed up on the DRM situation and selling the system 100 euros more than the ps4.

I would of been surprised if ps4 were not selling the way it has been up till now , they didn't have to do anything.

Out of the 3 sony have had the poorest launch and even 5 months later still really has not released any must have titles. Microsoft have had a decent launch along with Nintendo.

I know it sounds like I am tough on sony but don't misunderstand I own ever sony system ever released , even bought a ps4 in February for metal gear solid ground zero.

All I stated in this thread was with all the closing down of studios and building what was going on at sony , as mere concern. No conspiracy , no sense doomed thread , just general opinions from others on board.

jonerkinsella

richymcdermott wrote: »

All 3 companies are equal to me and none really outshines the other. In contrast To the ps4 at the moment its in this position because Wii u never took off the way nintendo wanted it to and that's by there own hands with poor marketing and no hype after its launch and left the console in the dessert.

Microsoft screwed up on the DRM situation and selling the system 100 euros more than the ps4.

I would of been surprised if ps4 were not selling the way it has been up till now , they didn't have to do anything.

Out of the 3 sony have had the poorest launch and even 5 months later still really has not released any must have titles. Microsoft have had a decent launch along with Nintendo.

I know it sounds like I am tough on sony but don't misunderstand I own ever sony system ever released , even bought a ps4 in February for metal gear solid ground zero.

All I stated in this thread was with all the closing down of studios and building what was going on at sony , as mere concern. No conspiracy , no sense doomed thread , just general opinions from others on board.

Wii-Wii-U = dead...customers will not fall for the crap again.

Xbone ...What great launch title ???

PS4 , €100 less than above and loads of future titles on the way ...unlike above... in the meantime...plenty to keep you intrested.


Do you actually remember any launch consoles with a better launch line up than the PS4 ?...I'de like to know.

Captain Chaos

jonerkinsella wrote: »

Do you actually remember any launch consoles with a better launch line up than the PS4 ?...I'de like to know.

PS2. Great launch line up that no other console has come close to.

But yeah the PS4 and X1 launch were about the same. It depends on what games you happen to like. I wouldn't say the X1 had a better launch at all.

richymcdermott

Captain Chaos wrote: »

PS2. Great launch line up that no other console has come close to. ??

But yeah the PS4 and X1 launch were about the same. It depends on what games you happen to like. I wouldn't say the X1 had a better launch at all.

Ps2 launch was poor

Here is the list of ps2 launch titles in europe

Aqua Aqua
Dynasty Warriors 2
FantaVision
FIFA 2001
Gradius III and IV
International Superstar Soccer
NHL 2001
Orphen: Scion of Sorcery
Ready 2 Rumble Boxing: Round 2
Ridge Racer V
Silent Scope
Smuggler's Run
SSX
Tekken Tag Tournament
TimeSplitters
Wild Wild Racing


other than timesplitters , tekken tag and ssx there is not much left from that list to say it has the best launch line up.

Captain Chaos

The PS4 and X1 both had around 3-4 games each that were console platform exclusives and the rest were cross platform and or cross gen.

cloud493

Wii and Wii U had great launch games

jonerkinsella

I do not even play my PS4 .I play the PS3 and vita far more at the moment. I've been playing Smart As on the vita nonstop for over a month now (I'm number 1 in the world at same different hard ;-) ) , I got Sonic generations for my daughter ,and I think it's great.

I like Driving games .I am waiting for Drive Club for the PS4 ,however ,even without any driving games for the PS4 ,I still think the games that are availible are great . Resogun is fantastic,BF4 is great ( I cant play it properly though as I'm to used to K/M PC combo for fps) ,KZ was an alright game... Overall ,I think that the lineup aint bad at all.

Roll on some driving games I say.

ps.I do not consider Need for speed as a driving game as I find it far too arcady.

C14N

richymcdermott wrote: »

All 3 companies are equal to me and none really outshines the other. In contrast To the ps4 at the moment its in this position because Wii u never took off the way nintendo wanted it to and that's by there own hands with poor marketing and no hype after its launch and left the console in the dessert.

Microsoft screwed up on the DRM situation and selling the system 100 euros more than the ps4.

I would of been surprised if ps4 were not selling the way it has been up till now , they didn't have to do anything.

Out of the 3 sony have had the poorest launch and even 5 months later still really has not released any must have titles. Microsoft have had a decent launch along with Nintendo.

I know it sounds like I am tough on sony but don't misunderstand I own ever sony system ever released , even bought a ps4 in February for metal gear solid ground zero.

All I stated in this thread was with all the closing down of studios and building what was going on at sony , as mere concern. No conspiracy , no sense doomed thread , just general opinions from others on board.

Equal to you perhaps, certainly not equal on a grander scale. Just because the competition sucks doesn't change the fact that people do like Sony right now for some great late-cycle PS3 games and the massively successful PS Plus. Nobody is forced to buy a next-gen console, people are buying PS4s because they want them.

Sony certainly didn't have the poorest launch though, I'm not sure where you come up with that. All 3 had ****e launches without a single game on any of them good enough to justify buying a new console. Xbox had Dead Rising 3, Playstation had Killzone, neither of them really had anything that great. The entire Christmas game line-up in 2013 was probably the weakest in years though.

No conspiracy , no sense doomed thread , just general opinions from others on board.

You did title it "is this the end of Playstation as we know it?". Sounds pretty doomed to me.

jonerkinsella wrote: »

Do you actually remember any launch consoles with a better launch line up than the PS4 ?...I'de like to know.

IIRC the Wii launched with Zelda Twilight Princess, the Gamecube launched with Mario Sunshine and the N64 launched with Mario 64. Those are all excellent games, far better than anything any of them launched with this time.

For the record here, I have no loyalty to Sony at all. The only Sony console I've ever owned is a PS3 which I bought half way through its cycle and used mainly as a Blu Ray player.

gizmo

jonerkinsella wrote: »

Wii-Wii-U = dead...customers will not fall for the crap again.

Xbone ...What great launch title ???

PS4 , €100 less than above and loads of future titles on the way ...unlike above... in the meantime...plenty to keep you intrested.


Do you actually remember any launch consoles with a better launch line up than the PS4 ?...I'de like to know.

Just sayin'

richymcdermott

C14N wrote: »

Equal to you perhaps, certainly not equal on a grander scale. Just because the competition sucks doesn't change the fact that people do like Sony right now for some great late-cycle PS3 games and the massively successful PS Plus. Nobody is forced to buy a next-gen console, people are buying PS4s because they want them.

Sony certainly didn't have the poorest launch though, I'm not sure where you come up with that. All 3 had ****e launches without a single game on any of them good enough to justify buying a new console. Xbox had Dead Rising 3, Playstation had Killzone, neither of them really had anything that great. The entire Christmas game line-up in 2013 was probably the weakest in years though.



You did title it "is this the end of Playstation as we know it?". Sounds pretty doomed to me.


For the record here, I have no loyalty to Sony at all. The only Sony console I've ever owned is a PS3 which I bought half way through its cycle and used mainly as a Blu Ray player.

Notice the question mark as I am just asking a question and It is titled is this the end of playstation as we know it as Playstation as a console manufacture not the end of playstation all together.

If I really thought playstation was doomed I would not have gotten a ps4 or playstation vita.

It is nothing like the wii u is doomed thread that is going on at the games forum that has no evidence and just all spouted non sense. I gave articles , and proof off situations going on at sony and just asked people what there thoughts are. I never said anywhere Sony is doomed.


and on the topic of launches ps4 had the worst out of the 3 leaving preferences aside microsoft and nintendo exclusives on launch day faired better than sonys exclusives.

Resogun seems like a excellent downloadable title but for someone to buy a 400 euro system for a dl title is crazy.

I played killzone shadowfall and its awful and this is coming from a guy who played previous games in the series and put 180 hours into killzone 2 online on ps3.

Knack is a poor platformer and not even worth mentioning.

Xbox one had dead rising 3, killer instinct and forza 5.

wii u had zombi u, new super mario bros u , nintendoland



this is not to say Sony has nothing coming , I am going to be all over uncharted 4 when thats out

whatever system you own you are guaranteed good games

abbir

C14N wrote: »

IIRC the Wii launched with Zelda Twilight Princess, the Gamecube launched with Mario Sunshine and the N64 launched with Mario 64. Those are all excellent games, far better than anything any of them launched with this time.

Slight correction, it didn't launch with Mario Sunshine. It had Luigi's Mansion, Star Wars Rogue Squadron 2 and Wave Race at launch.

jonerkinsella

gizmo wrote: »

Just sayin'

Why would somebody even bother to add a quote like that. Do you not have Anything meaningfull to add that is actually your thoughts.

Just sayin.

ohh...and ps. Sony have offered a knockout blow to the others in the industry this time around... and ,yes . if you actually bothered to Actually Read the thread ,you would see that I have tried most of the consoles in the last few years . I have probably had more consoles in my lifetime than you have had hot dinners son.

Would you like me to list them ?.

I wont even list my pc ,gfx card history to save forum space.

gizmo

jonerkinsella wrote: »

Why would somebody even bother to add a quote like that. Do you not have Anything meaningfull to add that is actually your thoughts.

Just sayin.

ohh...and ps. Sony have offered a knockout blow to the others in the industry this time around... and ,yes . if you actually bothered to Actually Read the thread ,you would see that I have tried most of the consoles in the last few years . I have probably had more consoles in my lifetime than you have had hot dinners son.

Would you like me to list them ?.

I wont even list my pc ,gfx card history to save forum space.

Why include it? Because I, like the author of the piece, am fascinated by a certain demographics ability to almost completely disregard logic and reasoning in their defense of their platform or brand of choice. In your case, your post was full of so many fallacies that it seemed to be the most appropriate response, especially given the time of its posting.

Granted you weren't a jerk about it, initially at least, as per the title of the article so I'll at least offer a break down of what was so wrong.

jonerkinsella wrote: »

Wii-Wii-U = dead...customers will not fall for the crap again.

The Wii has plenty of fantastic games as has been discussed ad nauseum on this forum before. The Wii U also has some cracking titles available for it now with more to come. How strong third party support will be in the future and how relevant that is going forward is, as also discussed in the other thread, up for debate. Either way, neither platform could be considered objectively "crap" by any reasonable gamer.

jonerkinsella wrote: »

Xbone ...What great launch title ???

In terms of XBox One launch titles, the combination of Ryse, Forza 5 and Dead Rising 3 was no more or less impressive than the PS4s of Killzone 4 and Knack. Resogun was probably the standout title from both consoles (and arguably still is) but either way, it's still not a game that could be described as a system seller for a next-gen console.

jonerkinsella wrote: »

PS4 , €100 less than above and loads of future titles on the way ...unlike above... in the meantime...plenty to keep you intrested.

Yup, it was a €100 less, Sony certainly got that right.

Both platforms have "loads of future titles on the way", to say the XBox One doesn't is just flat out wrong.

As for plenty to keep you interested, well unless you're big into the F2P titles which seem to be exclusive to the PS4 for now or are really into Killzone 4 MP, there's not much on the console which has much staying power that isn't also on the XBox One.

jonerkinsella wrote: »

Do you actually remember any launch consoles with a better launch line up than the PS4 ?...I'de like to know.

Yup, the N64 and Dreamcast off the top of my head would trump it. Obviously it comes down to personal preference but to suggest that nothing comes close is ludicrous.

C14N

abbir wrote: »

Slight correction, it didn't launch with Mario Sunshine. It had Luigi's Mansion, Star Wars Rogue Squadron 2 and Wave Race at launch.

Oh, my mistake, I got a Gamecube for Christmas the year it came out and it came with Mario Sunshine as well as Smash Bros Melee, but I was only 9 at the time. These must have at least been in the "launch window" at least though, even if not released on launch day though, right?

gizmo wrote: »

As for plenty to keep you interested, well unless you're big into the F2P titles which seem to be exclusive to the PS4 for now or are really into Killzone 4 MP, there's not much on the console which has much staying power that isn't also on the XBox One..

There is also Infamous Second Son, although from what I've heard it isn't as good as Infamous 2 was