Sony Woes continues , is it the end of playstation as we know it ?

gizmo

C14N wrote: »

There is also Infamous Second Son, although from what I've heard it isn't as good as Infamous 2 was

Ah yes, it does look super pretty too but yea, I did hear it didn't really do much to advance the formula over its predecessor.

Personally Rime, Deep Down and The Order are the ones that I'm looking forward to which may sway me to pick up the console.

_Redzer_

I really like the new infamous. It's fun and looks great, definitely as good as the second one.

Retr0gamer

Sony has sold their shares in square Enix. They're selling off an awful lot to try and claw back money.

FlyingIrishMan

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Sony has sold their shares in square Enix. They're selling off an awful lot to try and claw back money.

It's a smart move though really. Square Enix aren't not going to release a game on the console with the largest market share so selling the shares only gets them money without them losing anything really.

Retr0gamer

It's nothing really to do with gaining influence or software on their platform. The shares will give them dividends in the long run and should be an investment to hang on to. I doubt they had anything near a majority share anyway. It's a move to make a quick buck. Apparently their annual financial report is delayed so this will go a good way to making it look better than to investors.

Varik

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It's nothing really to do with gaining influence or software on their platform. The shares will give them dividends in the long run and should be an investment to hang on to. I doubt they had anything near a majority share anyway. It's a move to make a quick buck. Apparently their annual financial report is delayed so this will go a good way to making it look better than to investors.

Their financial year ended in march, this sale will be on next years one and their reports come out around the same time each year in June or May.

NTMK

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It's nothing really to do with gaining influence or software on their platform. The shares will give them dividends in the long run and should be an investment to hang on to. I doubt they had anything near a majority share anyway. It's a move to make a quick buck. Apparently their annual financial report is delayed so this will go a good way to making it look better than to investors.

they were 3rd largest share holder in SE but sold those shares for **** all (£28mill when their current values is about £100mill)

its a quick buck to shield the fact they failed to sell 2 divisions and are still haemorrhaging money but wont go be in the financial year end and will go to the june results

RasTa

Woes you say?

Sony Computer Entertainment, Inc. just announced that PS4 has cumulatively sold through more than 7.0 million units globally as of April 6th, 2014. PS4 software sales are another bright spot, with more than 20.5 million copies sold at retail and PlayStation Store worldwide as of April 13th, 2014.

jonerkinsella

gizmo wrote: »

"The Wii has plenty of fantastic games as has been discussed ad nauseum on this forum before. The Wii U also has some cracking titles available for it now with more to come. How strong third party support will be in the future and how relevant that is going forward is, as also discussed in the other thread, up for debate. Either way, neither platform could be considered objectively "crap" by any reasonable gamer. "

I did not say that the Wii was crap ,I said that " the consumer will not fall for that crap again ". The Wii was sold with the aim of bringing gaming to the masses. It came with a shedload of gimmicks (Wii board,stick controllers etc) .Upon bringing the Wii home ,most ppl realised that the console was not what they thought it was going to be .Infact ,I wouuld say that the Wii did more damage to the Nintendo brand in the long run than good. I have already talked in this thread about the amount of ppl in my direct family ,excluding neighbours,friends that bought a Wii on the dream of having loads of fun getting fit only to find that the Wii did not work very well ,the games where all stuck in the 90s ,the games where all the same and the gfx sucked. Anyone I know that got into the gaming thing through the Wii bought a 360/PS3 very quickly. I am sure that most ppl on this forum know of many Wii's lying around unused and fairly worthless because the dream did not match up with reality . It's all good and well talking the Wii up from a gamer point of view,but the Wii sales where artificially inflated by the normal joe ,not the gamer. The normal joe has not bought a Wii-U ,and the gamers aint really intrested as other company's have left ninty back in the 90s... Hence the bad sales of the U .

"In terms of XBox One launch titles, the combination of Ryse, Forza 5 and Dead Rising 3 was no more or less impressive than the PS4s of Killzone 4 and Knack. Resogun was probably the standout title from both consoles (and arguably still is) but either way, it's still not a game that could be described as a system seller for a next-gen console."

I have read loads and loads of reports from ppl who bought the XBone saying that Forza was a big dissapointment as it was way too short and that Ryse was boring with bad gameplay.


Yup, it was a €100 less, Sony certainly got that right.

"Both platforms have "loads of future titles on the way", to say the XBox One doesn't is just flat out wrong."

Time will tell. Unless MS pull a massive rabit out of the hat soon ,the XB is going the way of the Dreamcast.


"As for plenty to keep you interested, well unless you're big into the F2P titles which seem to be exclusive to the PS4 for now or are really into Killzone 4 MP, there's not much on the console which has much staying power that isn't also on the XBox One."

The PS4 is churning out titles all the time,granted most of them are indy at the moment,but there are a lot of games on the horizon this year. Even Bungie are gonna make exclusives for the PS4.


"Yup, the N64 and Dreamcast off the top of my head would trump it. Obviously it comes down to personal preference but to suggest that nothing comes close is ludicrous."

The N64 had two games on launch .I totally skipped it because a yr earlier Sony showed ninty how it should be done with the PS1. Everytime I tried to play an N64 I soon put it down because my PS was calling me back to the future.
I agree about the DC (I only sold mine last yr) ...but ,soon after release it became clear that the future was not bright for the DC as the PS2 was on the horizon. It was a fantastic console though.

gizmo

jonerkinsella wrote: »

I did not say that the Wii was crap ,I said that " the consumer will not fall for that crap again ". The Wii was sold with the aim of bringing gaming to the masses. It came with a shedload of gimmicks (Wii board,stick controllers etc) .Upon bringing the Wii home ,most ppl realised that the console was not what they thought it was going to be .Infact ,I wouuld say that the Wii did more damage to the Nintendo brand in the long run than good. I have already talked in this thread about the amount of ppl in my direct family ,excluding neighbours,friends that bought a Wii on the dream of having loads of fun getting fit only to find that the Wii did not work very well ,the games where all stuck in the 90s ,the games where all the same and the gfx sucked. Anyone I know that got into the gaming thing through the Wii bought a 360/PS3 very quickly. I am sure that most ppl on this forum know of many Wii's lying around unused and fairly worthless because the dream did not match up with reality . It's all good and well talking the Wii up from a gamer point of view,but the Wii sales where artificially inflated by the normal joe ,not the gamer. The normal joe has not bought a Wii-U ,and the gamers aint really intrested as other company's have left ninty back in the 90s... Hence the bad sales of the U .

I don't want to dwell too long on this because it's been both discussed and, in many instances, debunked on numerous occasions already. So, to summarise, "most ppl" were either poorly informed, gullible, unrealistic or plain 'ol foolish in that case. If the stand out games on the Wii are "stuck in the 90s" and "all the same" then please send me back there, it seems like a happier place. The graphics sucking is entirely subjective but I'd take the superior art style and direction of Nintendo stalwarts over the sea of brown and grey that dominates todays skyline any day of the week.

As for this...

jonerkinsella wrote: »

It's all good and well talking the Wii up from a gamer point of view...

That's the only view I'm particularly interested in. Nintendo investors may disagree of course but as long as they can keep churning out quality titles at a reasonable rate (they're half way there at least) then I'm not going to complain.

jonerkinsella wrote: »

I have read loads and loads of reports from ppl who bought the XBone saying that Forza was a big dissapointment as it was way too short and that Ryse was boring with bad gameplay.

And I've read loads and loads of reports saying that Killzone is graphically pretty yet functionally stale FPS that brings nothing new to the table. As for Knack, well I think Metacritic sums up that quite succiently...

There are no positive critic reviews yet.

jonerkinsella wrote: »

Time will tell. Unless MS pull a massive rabit out of the hat soon ,the XB is going the way of the Dreamcast.

Nonense. The PS4 is clearly in the lead in terms of hardware sales to date yet, following it's strong Christmas period figures, the XBox One has clawed its way back, mainly due to, one assumes, the release of Titanfall. If the release of one game is enough to spark that much of a turnaround then making any definitive call on the future of either platform is pointless.

jonerkinsella wrote: »

The PS4 is churning out titles all the time,granted most of them are indy at the moment,but there are a lot of games on the horizon this year. Even Bungie are gonna make exclusives for the PS4.

The PS4 is getting a bunch of ports of PC indie games for free thanks to the cross platform nature of the tools used to create them, namely Unity and, more recently, GameMaker. MS were late to the party with Unity integration but it's now in place so, save for any exclusivity agreement in place, there's absolutely no reason those titles can't (and indeed won't) come to the XBox One in the near future. As for GameMaker, well I'd be amazed if we didn't see a similar announcement from them this year.

With regards Bungie, they've announced exclusive PS4 content for Destiny. Do you really think MS won't have a similar deal in place?

jonerkinsella wrote: »

The N64 had two games on launch .I totally skipped it because a yr earlier Sony showed ninty how it should be done with the PS1. Everytime I tried to play an N64 I soon put it down because my PS was calling me back to the future.

I'm assuming we're talking about European launch games here? That makes it more than two games but hell, even if we're talking Japanese titles, that still means Mario 64 and Pilotwings 64. Now if you want to say that you regard any of the launch games for either current gen platforms as better than Mario 64 then by all means but that's taking subjectivity to its limits imo.

Retr0gamer

RasTa wrote: »

Woes you say?

It's a small change compared to their overall deficit and there's more to Sony than just the games division.

RasTa

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It's a small change compared to their overall deficit and there's more to Sony than just the games division.

True, more to do with the thread title tbh. It's far from the end of the Playstation

Retr0gamer

True. These types of companies seem to yo-yo between massive deficits and profitability all the time.

jonerkinsella

gizmo wrote: »

I don't want to dwell too long on this because it's been both discussed and, in many instances, debunked on numerous occasions already. So, to summarise, "most ppl" were either poorly informed, gullible, unrealistic or plain 'ol foolish in that case. If the stand out games on the Wii are "stuck in the 90s" and "all the same" then please send me back there, it seems like a happier place. The graphics sucking is entirely subjective but I'd take the superior art style and direction of Nintendo stalwarts over the sea of brown and grey that dominates todays skyline any day of the week.

Rehash after rehash after rehash.Thats the ninty way.

As for this...

That's the only view I'm particularly interested in. Nintendo investors may disagree of course but as long as they can keep churning out quality titles at a reasonable rate (they're half way there at least) then I'm not going to complain.



And I've read loads and loads of reports saying that Killzone is graphically pretty yet functionally stale FPS that brings nothing new to the table. As for Knack, well I think Metacritic sums up that quite succiently...

I totally agree...but ,you brought Ryse and Forza as an example as good games. I have read plenty of ppl on other forums giving out about them... and as for industry reviews, If you dont play game with the distrubuters you wll not really be getting any more games to review. I would always base my purchases on user reviews.



Nonense. The PS4 is clearly in the lead in terms of hardware sales to date yet, following it's strong Christmas period figures, the XBox One has clawed its way back, mainly due to, one assumes, the release of Titanfall. If the release of one game is enough to spark that much of a turnaround then making any definitive call on the future of either platform is pointless.

It is obvious that the XB will start selling more units in the US after the launch. Sony knew that they had a hard slog with the PS in the US. The US never took to the PS ,that is why it launched when it did. The US market is extremely biased in favour of the XB ,but Sony's strategy with PS+ is coming good for the long term in the US and around the world.



The PS4 is getting a bunch of ports of PC indie games for free thanks to the cross platform nature of the tools used to create them, namely Unity and, more recently, GameMaker. MS were late to the party with Unity integration but it's now in place so, save for any exclusivity agreement in place, there's absolutely no reason those titles can't (and indeed won't) come to the XBox One in the near future. As for GameMaker, well I'd be amazed if we didn't see a similar announcement from them this year.

I think you have it backwards... The PC is getting far more ports from Console development than consoles from PC .The PS4 has the power to quite reasonably power higher rez games ,hence the developors heading that way...for a long time. The Battle field series for example, it had nearly 5million regular players at one time .The console industry did not have the capabilitys for such a game ...even the PS3 sucked at BF (Bad company was designed for the console,twas ok for that) .

With regards Bungie, they've announced exclusive PS4 content for Destiny. Do you really think MS won't have a similar deal in place?

Yehh, but MS and Bungie are covering all their angles by accepting that they have to develope for other markets,unlike Ninty.


I'm assuming we're talking about European launch games here? That makes it more than two games but hell, even if we're talking Japanese titles, that still means Mario 64 and Pilotwings 64. Now if you want to say that you regard any of the launch games for either current gen platforms as better than Mario 64 then by all means but that's taking subjectivity to its limits imo.

I had grown up by the N64 . I was too busy playing Xcom on my PS . The last great game I can remember playing from Ninty was Donkey Kong Country. I had been playing DK and Mario games for too long at that stage and decided to move on ( I had a Coleco Vision around 83ish and played DK to death)

richymcdermott

RasTa wrote: »

Woes you say?

I am not even going to respond anymore because people are still caught up on the name of the thread and not just reading what I have posted previously

Its getting very boring now repeating myself that I never said end of playstation brand ..Period.

dmcg90

PS4 has now sold 7 million units...

I think, given this rate, Playstation is probably the strongest it's ever been.

Source - http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2014/04/17/sony-announces-7-million-ps4-sales-microsoft-still-silent-on-xbox-one/

Sony announced the sales milestone on their blog, along with additional data saying that software sales have topped 20.5 million.

FlyingIrishMan

dmcg90 wrote: »

PS4 has now sold 7 million units...

I think, given this rate, Playstation is probably the strongest it's ever been.

Source - http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2014/04/17/sony-announces-7-million-ps4-sales-microsoft-still-silent-on-xbox-one/

Except during the PS2 lifecycle. Don't know if it will ever reach those highs again.

C14N

jonerkinsella wrote: »

*Wii rant.*

It's true that the Wii was bought by a lot of people who didn't end up using it. They weren't "fooled" or anything though, they just overestimated how much they'd want to play Wii. It had a very weak second half of it's life but the start was fantastic. There were plenty of good exclusives on the Wii, it's main problem was that it wasn't getting the big multiplatform games because of the hardware limits. The Wii U is very different though and appears to be going back to old-fashioned controller gaming for the most part.

jonerkinsella wrote: »

I have read loads and loads of reports from ppl who bought the XBone saying that Forza was a big dissapointment as it was way too short and that Ryse was boring with bad gameplay.

Anecdotes aren't worth much. Ryse was apparently crap but so was Knack. Killzone was average but so was Dead Rising. They were about even.

jonerkinsella wrote: »

The PS4 is churning out titles all the time,granted most of them are indy at the moment,but there are a lot of games on the horizon this year. Even Bungie are gonna make exclusives for the PS4.

I thought Bungie were currently making Destiny, which is multiplatform. Right now, we really don't know what's going to end up being good. The Order is hopeful enough given the developer but all we have to go on is a pre-rendered trailer, same goes for Sunset Overdrive on XBO. Most things will be multiplatform though.

jonerkinsella wrote: »

The N64 had two games on launch .I totally skipped it because a yr earlier Sony showed ninty how it should be done with the PS1. Everytime I tried to play an N64 I soon put it down because my PS was calling me back to the future.

I assume you're talking about the US release of the N64 in which case the two titles were Pilotwings and Mario 64, either of which were worth far more than the entire mixed bag of PS4 or XBO launch titles. Also, if Sony were so far into the future ahead of Nintendo, why did the retroactively change their controller to add analogue sticks after the N64 came out?

LookingFor

FlyingIrishMan wrote: »

Except during the PS2 lifecycle. Don't know if it will ever reach those highs again.

It's actually selling better than PS2 at the same period in its life. Of course that may not hold out indefinitely - I'd be amazed if PS4 ultimately sells the same amount as PS2 did - but anyway, right now the PS business is in very good shape.

As for the original post, there's an awful lot of hyperbole there, especially about the movement of particular staff members (Tretton, Amy Hennig etc). Staff at companies changes all the time. Just in today's world, in the videogame message board culture, people are far more aware of it when people do come and go at companies.

Sony's overall financial situation is long storied, but I think it's safe to say they're not going anywhere any time soon, and among the businesses within Sony, Playstation is one the safest. It's a priority business for Sony and while it has had to be a team player and cut some staff in reorganisations, those cuts are nothing compared to cuts elsewhere in the company. It is actually being sheltered as much as possible from the slimming down going on at Sony, and has benefitted from large investment funded by asset sales elsewhere (e.g. Gaikai). The narrative in the OP focusses a lot on outgoings and reductions while ignoring investments and incomings elsewhere.

jonerkinsella

C14N wrote: »

It's true that the Wii was bought by a lot of people who didn't end up using it. They weren't "fooled" or anything though, they just overestimated how much they'd want to play Wii. It had a very weak second half of it's life but the start was fantastic. There were plenty of good exclusives on the Wii, it's main problem was that it wasn't getting the big multiplatform games because of the hardware limits. The Wii U is very different though and appears to be going back to old-fashioned controller gaming for the most part.



Anecdotes aren't worth much. Ryse was apparently crap but so was Knack. Killzone was average but so was Dead Rising. They were about even.

I agree. I was answering an earlier post.




I thought Bungie were currently making Destiny, which is multiplatform. Right now, we really don't know what's going to end up being good. The Order is hopeful enough given the developer but all we have to go on is a pre-rendered trailer, same goes for Sunset Overdrive on XBO. Most things will be multiplatform though.




I assume you're talking about the US release of the N64 in which case the two titles were Pilotwings and Mario 64, either of which were worth far more than the entire mixed bag of PS4 or XBO launch titles. Also, if Sony were so far into the future ahead of Nintendo, why did the retroactively change their controller to add analogue sticks after the N64 came out?

Atari had a joystick in the 70s man. And... I would rather the PS1 launch games any day over any of the N64 games (Destruction derby,Ridge racer,Wipeout,Rayman ,Air Combat) The games came thick and fast for the PS1 . I remember at the time any one with a N64 just had to accept the trickle . When ever we all used to hook up ,it was always me that was asked the PS ,never the lads with the N64.

C14N

jonerkinsella wrote: »

Atari had a joystick in the 70s man.

That's great, what's it got to do with anything?

jonerkinsella wrote: »

And... I would rather the PS1 launch games any day over any of the N64 games (Destruction derby,Ridge racer,Wipeout,Rayman ,Air Combat) The games came thick and fast for the PS1 . I remember at the time any one with a N64 just had to accept the trickle . When ever we all used to hook up ,it was always me that was asked the PS ,never the lads with the N64.

I wasn't talking about PS1 launch games. Also, anecdotes still aren't really worth much. I can just as easily say the Gamecube was clearly better than the PS2 because every time people came over they loved the Gamecube. And I do remember the N64 being so popular that whoever owned it would bring it to other people's houses to play it. I'm not sure why you're so determined to "prove" that the N64 wasn't a good console.

EoinHef

This thread seems it should possibly be in the business talk section of boards rather than a gaming section but anyway here my two cents.

The redundancies and closures were fairly predictable imo. As Sony stated many times before launch their stratagey was to attract indie devs to the console while still catering for the AAA developers. The bait for indie devs was self publishing,this bait cannot be underestimated as it greatly reduces the cost of development for small developers and also allows them to keep control of their ip rather than it being in the control of some greedy publisher eg EA,Activision etc

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/1-000-devs-signed-up-to-make-games-for-playstation-platforms/1100-6418650/

The above article was on many websites at the time,its basically about the fact that Sony has now managed to get 1000 devs signed up to PS4 and self publishing. So why would you keep all your internal studios open if you already have so many devs vying to get there games on your console?
At the end of the day we can only play so many games and with that amount of devs looking to make games for PS4 and make a profit from them it would be silly of Sony to keep producing games "in house" at the rate they were as the market would be saturated imo. As in smaller market share for any game thats on the console

I think maybe Sonys overall financial state made them pursue a stratagey like this one but its turned out to be a successful one so far imo.

jonerkinsella

C14N wrote: »

That's great, what's it got to do with anything?



I wasn't talking about PS1 launch games. Also, anecdotes still aren't really worth much. I can just as easily say the Gamecube was clearly better than the PS2 because every time people came over they loved the Gamecube. And I do remember the N64 being so popular that whoever owned it would bring it to other people's houses to play it. I'm not sure why you're so determined to "prove" that the N64 wasn't a good console.

You tried to make the point that Sony had to go back to a redesign for the controller because Ninty brought one out on their controller. The Coleco Vision Had a thumbstick in the early 80s (the truly ground braking console that ninty emulated for the Nes... just go and check out the hardware add on's for the time) .

I am not trying to "prove" anything . I am telling my experience and giving my opinions.
When a mate of mine bought another PS we played Doom on linkup nonstop for a very long time (a real revolution).

jonerkinsella

EoinHef wrote: »

This thread seems it should possibly be in the business talk section of boards rather than a gaming section but anyway here my two cents.

The redundancies and closures were fairly predictable imo. As Sony stated many times before launch their stratagey was to attract indie devs to the console while still catering for the AAA developers. The bait for indie devs was self publishing,this bait cannot be underestimated as it greatly reduces the cost of development for small developers and also allows them to keep control of their ip rather than it being in the control of some greedy publisher eg EA,Activision etc

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/1-000-devs-signed-up-to-make-games-for-playstation-platforms/1100-6418650/

The above article was on many websites at the time,its basically about the fact that Sony has now managed to get 1000 devs signed up to PS4 and self publishing. So why would you keep all your internal studios open if you already have so many devs vying to get there games on your console?
At the end of the day we can only play so many games and with that amount of devs looking to make games for PS4 and make a profit from them it would be silly of Sony to keep producing games "in house" at the rate they were as the market would be saturated imo. As in smaller market share for any game thats on the console

I think maybe Sonys overall financial state made them pursue a stratagey like this one but its turned out to be a successful one so far imo.

I agree totally.

The fact that this thread was even allowed in this section is one of the points that I made in one of my first contrabutions.

The title is pure flame bait ... and the op with his "Chicken Little" title is fanning it.

This thread should not of been allowed in here.

Retr0gamer

jonerkinsella wrote: »

You tried to make the point that Sony had to go back to a redesign for the controller because Ninty brought one out on their controller. The Coleco Vision Had a thumbstick in the early 80s (the truly ground braking console that ninty emulated for the Nes... just go and check out the hardware add on's for the time) .

Where did you get that nonsense from? I'm guessing some opinionated clueless YouTuber.

As for linked consoles being a revolution, the PC and other home computers like the Atari st were doing that for years.

jonerkinsella

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Where did you get that nonsense from? I'm guessing some opinionated clueless YouTuber.

As for linked consoles being a revolution, the PC and other home computers like the Atari st were doing that for years.

A response to another post.

C14N
"I assume you're talking about the US release of the N64 in which case the two titles were Pilotwings and Mario 64, either of which were worth far more than the entire mixed bag of PS4 or XBO launch titles. Also, if Sony were so far into the future ahead of Nintendo, why did the retroactively change their controller to add analogue sticks after the N64 came out? "


The Coleco came out in 1982 , st 1985 .

Here... educate yourself
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ColecoVision

Retr0gamer

So based on a wikipedia article then that uses two unreferenced citations. It's well known that the silicon was based loosely on the colecovision but then by 1985 tile based graphics were the norm in home computers. There's absolutely nothing to back up the point you were making about the colecovision sticks influencing the N64's design, those controllers were a disaster. Anyway it wasn't the thumbstick that was special about the N64 it was the fact that it was an analogue joystick. Now you can say the 5200 had an analogue joystick but that thing is the worst controller ever made for a home system.

jonerkinsella

Retr0gamer wrote: »

So based on a wikipedia article then that uses two unreferenced citations. It's well known that the silicon was based loosely on the colecovision but then by 1985 tile based graphics were the norm in home computers. There's absolutely nothing to back up the point you were making about the colecovision sticks influencing the N64's design, those controllers were a disaster. Anyway it wasn't the thumbstick that was special about the N64 it was the fact that it was an analogue joystick. Now you can say the 5200 had an analogue joystick but that thing is the worst controller ever made for a home system.

You are trying to twist the points I made to suit your argument that you are having on your own.

The reference to the thumbsticks was to point out that there was nothing revolutionary about Ninty on the N64.

You made a statement that the ST did a lot for Console developement before the Colecovision. I correctly pointed out that you are wrong. The Colleco was out 3 yrs before the ST ...unless of course ,Atari really had got a Flux Capacitor.

I think you need to go back and read the references that where made by me and others in this thread to see how we all got to here.

Retr0gamer

jonerkinsella wrote: »

You are trying to twist the points I made to suit your argument that you are having on your own.

The reference to the thumbsticks was to point out that there was nothing revolutionary about Ninty on the N64.

You made a statement that the ST did a lot for Console developement before the Colecovision. I correctly pointed out that you are wrong. The Colleco was out 3 yrs before the ST ...unless of course ,Atari really had got a Flux Capacitor.

I think you need to go back and read the references that where made by me and others in this thread to see how we all got to here.

Have a read of what you just wrote there, you're twisting things yourself there. I didn't make any of the claims you say I did in that post.

jonerkinsella

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Have a read of what you just wrote there, you're twisting things yourself there. I didn't make any of the claims you say I did in that post.

Here. I'le show you where you tried that,

This post is in response to C14N's earlier post ...

Originally Posted by jonerkinsella (thats me)
" You tried to make the point that Sony had to go back to a redesign for the controller because Ninty brought one out on their controller. The Coleco Vision Had a thumbstick in the early 80s (the truly ground braking console that ninty emulated for the Nes... just go and check out the hardware add on's for the time) ."

And you said (note part two of your response),

""" Where did you get that nonsense from? I'm guessing some opinionated clueless YouTuber.

As for linked consoles being a revolution, the PC and other home computers like the Atari st were doing that for years. """