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Advice needed

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  • 29-03-2014 8:55pm
    #1
    greensausage
    Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭


    I hope this is the correct forum for my for my query if its not please fell free to move it mods,
    so heres the situation, i am currently renting an appatment with my partner and her son, about 8 months ago the apartment directly below us was up for sale, it was bought by a guy who rents out accomadtion to mainly hens and stags at the weekends(its an extremly popular town for this).
    So the guy redecorates the place and puts 9 or 10 beds into it and rents it out, so depending on the people staying its anywhere from slightly loud or absolute chaos!
    I was wondering did he need planning permission to use the apartment as a business?any advice would be greatly appreciated.

    p.s moving is not an option at the moment unfortunetly


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    #2
    MouseTail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭MouseTail


    I think moving might be your only option. I don't think any planning is required for short term lets. Be grateful you don't own the apartment, what a nightmare!


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    #3
    greensausage
    Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭greensausage


    MouseTail wrote: »
    I think moving might be your only option. I don't think any planning is required for short term lets. Be grateful you don't own the apartment, what a nightmare!
    Believe me I wish I could but that wont be happing for at least 6 months :(


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    #4
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Has the apartment complex got a functioning management company? This would be my first avenue to pursue, as they generally have rules regulating noise within the complex.

    You could also take a case against him with the PRTB if he is not dealing with the antisocial behaviour of his tenants, however I have no idea how long it would them to look into it.


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    #5
    mad m
    Registered Users Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭mad m


    Is there apartments either side of this chaos pad?


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    #6
    greensausage
    Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭greensausage


    mad m wrote: »
    Is there apartments either side of this chaos pad?
    There is one to the left of it but its been empty for a good while now


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    #7
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    djimi wrote: »
    Has the apartment complex got a functioning management company? This would be my first avenue to pursue, as they generally have rules regulating noise within the complex.

    It's a bigger deal than noise, you're generally prohibited from operating a business in an apartment where it involves bringing people through common areas. The OP's problem is that they are tenants and the Management Company are under no obligation to deal with tenants as they are not company members.


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    #8
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    athtrasna wrote: »
    The OP's problem is that they are tenants and the Management Company are under no obligation to deal with tenants as they are not company members.

    I meant for the management company to deal with the landlord; obviously there is no point in trying to get the management company to deal with "tenants" who will be there for 24 hours, even if they wanted to get involved.


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    #9
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,301 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    greensausage wrote: »
    So the guy redecorates the place and puts 9 or 10 beds into it and rents it out, so depending on the people staying its anywhere from slightly loud or absolute chaos!
    I'm guessing Carrick on Shannon? I suppose you could tell the management of your security concerns?


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    #10
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    djimi wrote: »
    I meant for the management company to deal with the landlord; obviously there is no point in trying to get the management company to deal with "tenants" who will be there for 24 hours, even if they wanted to get involved.

    And I meant that because the OP is renting the management company has no obligation to deal with them (OP) - in this case it would have to be the OP's landlord making the complaint.


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    #11
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    athtrasna wrote: »
    And I meant that because the OP is renting the management company has no obligation to deal with them (OP) - in this case it would have to be the OP's landlord making the complaint.

    Oh heavens above does it really matter which of them contacts the management company? You dont need to repeat it in every thread that tenants are second class citizens you know.


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    #12
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    djimi wrote: »
    Oh heavens above does it really matter which of them contacts the management company? You dont need to repeat it in every thread that tenants are second class citizens you know.

    It actually does matter in management company terms. The directors have a legal responsibility to the members. Tenants are not second class citizens, in fact they often are in a better position than owners in that they are mobile and aren't forced to live near difficult neighbours for prolonged periods.

    In this case, the management company may incur significant costs if they are to take action against the landlord running a short term lets business. Things like legal advice, 3rd party PRTB complaint, Solicitor's letters etc. They should not go down that road unless the complaint is made by a member of the company as it is ultimately the company members who will foot the bill from their management fees.


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    #13
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    You dont need to repeat it ad nauseum that tenants have no right to deal directly with a management company; in the context of this thread it didnt need to be said, and its gets tiresome when you seem to be constantly replying to my posts with this line.

    I suggested contacting the management company because it is their rules that are being broken. I dont know who else is going to deal with this; the PRTB seemingly is not an option and the Gardai are not going to get involved. The management company set the rules about noise levels etc so surely its up to them to enforce them; lord knows you stick up a satellite dish and they would be quick enough to tell you to take it down...


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    #14
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    djimi wrote: »
    Oh heavens above does it really matter which of them contacts the management company? You dont need to repeat it in every thread that tenants are second class citizens you know.

    athtrasna has not stated that tenants are second class citizens. He has merely pointed out that the tenant has no relationship with the Management Company- their relationship is with their landlord. If they have an issue- they bring it to their landlord's attention- and if it is unresolved- this is an issue they have with a lack of appropriate action on the part of the landlord.

    If you have an issue with what someone posts- attack the post and not the poster. Suggesting that Athtrasna has called tenants second class citizens- is attacking Athtrasna- and not the post he made- and is not acceptable in this forum.

    Consider this a warning.

    Regards,

    The_Conductor


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    #15
    blacklilly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,687 ✭✭✭blacklilly


    athtrasna wrote: »
    It actually does matter in management company terms. The directors have a legal responsibility to the members. Tenants are not second class citizens, in fact they often are in a better position than owners in that they are mobile and aren't forced to live near difficult neighbours for prolonged periods.

    In this case, the management company may incur significant costs if they are to take action against the landlord running a short term lets business. Things like legal advice, 3rd party PRTB complaint, Solicitor's letters etc. They should not go down that road unless the complaint is made by a member of the company as it is ultimately the company members who will foot the bill from their management fees.

    It is the person suffering the nuisance that makes the complaint, of course their landlord should also assist them when requried.
    Most apartment leases will have a clause regarding short term lets and will prohibit them, the Management Company could pursue the landlord through that clause, however Management Companies are slow to do this as it is lenghtly and costly.
    Another option would be for you to notify the fire department, I would be nearly certain that having 10 beds in an apartment is against fire regulations and the landlord can face a fine or imprisonment over this.


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    #16
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,990 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    blacklilly wrote: »
    It is the person suffering the nuisance that makes the complaint, of course their landlord should also assist them when requried.
    Most apartment leases will have a clause regarding short term lets and will prohibit them, the Management Company could pursue the landlord through that clause, however Management Companies are slow to do this as it is lenghtly and costly.
    Another option would be for you to notify the fire department, I would be nearly certain that having 10 beds in an apartment is against fire regulations and the landlord can face a fine or imprisonment over this.

    The person suffering from the noise complains to the party that they have a contact with, their landlord. It's then up to the landlord to resolve the issue by working with the party that they have a contract with, the management company. The Tennant has no contract with the management company so the management company can ignore them, it can't ignore the owner.


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    #17
    blacklilly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,687 ✭✭✭blacklilly


    Del2005 wrote: »
    The person suffering from the noise complains to the party that they have a contact with, their landlord. It's then up to the landlord to resolve the issue by working with the party that they have a contract with, the management company. The Tennant has no contract with the management company so the management company can ignore them, it can't ignore the owner.

    I'm well aware of how Management Companies/Agents operate. Management Companies and/or their agents will usually issue noise complaint letters on receipt of a written complaint even if it is from a tenant. If the issue then seems to become more complicated as the OP's issue seems to be, that's when their landlord needs to get actively involved.


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    #18
    padjo5
    Registered Users Posts: 537 ✭✭✭padjo5


    OP, tough spot you are in. If I was in that situation my first port of call would be to speak with the owner/s of the property. Is that possible, or have you done so already?


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    #19
    greensausage
    Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭greensausage


    padjo5 wrote: »
    OP, tough spot you are in. If I was in that situation my first port of call would be to speak with the owner/s of the property. Is that possible, or have you done so already?

    Thanks for all the replies
    To be honest iv never actually spoken to the owner everything has always gone through an estate agent, the problem with the management company is im fairly sure this guy has them in his back pocket, he owns about 10 townhouses and 4 apartments in this area and i know of at least one couple and one family who have had to move because of the hassle at weekends.


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    #20
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    djimi wrote: »
    You dont need to repeat it ad nauseum that tenants have no right to deal directly with a management company; in the context of this thread it didnt need to be said, and its gets tiresome when you seem to be constantly replying to my posts with this line.

    I suggested contacting the management company because it is their rules that are being broken. I dont know who else is going to deal with this; the PRTB seemingly is not an option and the Gardai are not going to get involved. The management company set the rules about noise levels etc so surely its up to them to enforce them; lord knows you stick up a satellite dish and they would be quick enough to tell you to take it down...

    PRTB is an option, a third party complaint can be made..though there is a cost involved.

    Noise levels are hard to prove, fire safety and insurance issues are easier to pursue a complaint under.

    The OP needs to keep a log of times and dates, noise, number of people (if known) and details of any incidents.

    My posts are as an owner director of our management company, I have dealt with many of these issues over the years so am in a position to advise and share our knowledge and experience. I also know that we have received advice to only deal with company members when expense/action against a fellow member is necessary. It's not that tenants have no rights.


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    #21
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,959 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    9 or 10 beds you say .. mmm I wonder how many beds the planning permission says will be there.

    I don't know the story here, but where I come from if rented accommodation has 10 or more bed-spaces, the fire-safety regulations that apply are very different. TBH, you might have more luck pursuing the problem from this sort of angle.

    Even if the number of beds has to be reduced, it may decrease the popullarity and thus the noise a bit.



    Or another approach is to put some information onto TripAdvisor and other sites about the "quality" of the apartment. Note that I'm am very explicitly not suggesting that you libel anyone or even tell lies. But you could post the truth about the suburban location, grumpy neighbours, dog-poo in the street, long walk from the best nightclubs etc ... whatever truth helps to drive demand down. from


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