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Handing in notice-College Fees

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  • 31-03-2014 8:42pm
    #1
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭


    Hi Guys,

    Will try and keep this short and fairly anonymous for obvious reasons.

    Two years ago I was approached by a company off their own steam to get me to come on board and work for them. I was in Uni at the time and they agreed a salary of X and I said my current company paid me 2k less than that but covered my college fees. He said-the company director-that he would also pay my college fees in addition to the salary offer.

    So i took the job.

    Fees notice came in a few months after I'd started and he decided it was too much. Very annoyed I talked to my partner and we decided that I would take a 2k pay decrease in return for him paying my fees-which were 2k. And the leave I needed to attend college is 4 weeks roughly per year and he also decided he didnt want to pay this so i took two weeks unpaid and he said he would cover two weeks. I had no option as i didnt have the money to spare as i thought he was paying the fees. he agreed to pay my exam costs himself, about 1600.

    I get promoted the next year he puts me back up by 2k and he pays my college fees and pays me for time spent away from the office at university.

    At this stage he still hadnt given me a contract-2 years later. Mentions he should with minimum time i had to spend with them after i qualify or else i owe the fees. Fair enough.

    Six months later still no contract and i find out the guy that i manage has been given a pay increase. which in fact brings him onto about 200 quid more a year annually than me.

    Raging even though i know that i get my uni paid on top, he has no qualifications and A LOT less responsibility than me-literally zero.

    I see a job advertised, go for it, and it looks like ive gotten it. Its twice, yes TWICE, my current salary.

    Heres the problem, when my boss mentioned the fees he would be outlining in the contract that never appeared it was the fees, the exam cost, the time he paid me for that i wasnt there, PLUS the cost of getting somebody in to cover me-temp staff. We were incredibly understaffed so there was literally nobody there to do my job so they had no option, the job position wasnt filled for six months after it opened up.

    Anyway, Im kinda looking for advise here, i dont want to leave on bad terms, I havent signed any contract saying ill pay back money but I have a very bitter taste in my mouth over the junior person i manage essentially being on a higher wage than me despite my qualifications and being there half the time i am, and also getting stung for them not having enough staff to cover my agreed time off.

    I have no intentions of not paying him back but i just want to see how you guys would approach it given the background.

    thanks


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    #2
    Eoin
    Registered Users Posts: 21,257 ✭✭✭✭Eoin


    To be fair, I think giving 2 weeks paid leave and allowing 2 weeks unpaid for college is pretty decent. In some places, that could have been your entire annual leave used up.

    How long is it since you qualified - not since you started there?

    If you want to leave on good terms, then it seems to me that the only option is to convince the boss that you feel you have already stayed a good while since qualifying, so even if there was a contract in place, you would have fulfilled your end of the deal. Especially given that you took a salary cut to make up for it. I reckon it's more tax efficient for him to pay for that, rather than a salary.

    A lot of managers can get defensive when people are leaving, so I don't know if I would go into detail about the junior person's salary. There's little to be gained by debating it, or by having a rant on your way out. Just say that you've got a great opportunity in a new company, thank him for the experience etc.

    If it hasn't been that long since you qualified, and the only reason you're not paying him back is by virtue of him not giving you a contract, then just be prepared for not leaving on good terms and not being able to use them as a reference in the future.


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    #3
    iwillhtfu
    Registered Users Posts: 6,372 ✭✭✭iwillhtfu


    I'd have said you owe him nothing other than a thank you for the experience.

    He knew exactly what he was getting into when hiring you and then decide to change the terms in which you agreed to when taking the job.

    If you think the job you're about to be offered is better than your current one and not just because it pays more then go for it. Your boss will no doubt be a bit annoyed at your leaving so do your best to agree a reasonable notice period with your current employer and your soon to be new employer.

    The only place i see there being an issue is if you have to work a back month in wages your current boss may attempt to retain a portion on the entire months wages claiming you broke a contract which doesn't exist other than verbally. This verbal contract may carry some weight though I'm sure someone else might confirm this.

    Good Luck with the new job.


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    #4
    Mr Pseudonym
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,237 ✭✭✭Mr Pseudonym


    No contract? No problems! Pay him the equivalent of the college and exam fees to soothe your conscience and to discourage him from coming after you for the rest. Considering that he reneged on your original agreement, there's little to feel guilty about.


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    #5
    percy212
    Registered Users Posts: 1,077 ✭✭✭percy212


    Don't feel bad. Its just business. Your fees were part of your salary. Offer to work a long notice period if that is useful to the company. Be respectful and polite. Don't get drawn into an argument. If things get heated, say you have a migraine, go home, and get more advice :)

    You don't owe your company anything. You worked in return for compensation. Best of luck in the new job.


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    #6
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,301 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Work123 wrote: »
    He said-the company director-that he would also pay my college fees in addition to the salary offer.
    <snip>
    he decided it was too much.
    He head-hunted you, and then retracted what he offered.
    Work123 wrote: »
    Very annoyed I talked to my partner and we decided that I would take a 2k pay decrease in return for him paying my fees-which were 2k.
    You being there a year nullifies this part.
    Work123 wrote: »
    I get promoted the next year he puts me back up by 2k and he pays my college fees and pays me for time spent away from the office at university.
    So your "promotion" is basically what he had agreed he'd pay you from the start? Sounds like he had planned to do this from the start?
    Work123 wrote: »
    At this stage he still hadnt given me a contract-2 years later. Mentions he should with minimum time i had to spend with them after i qualify or else i owe the fees. Fair enough.
    No contract, means you never signed any agreement. Heck, verbal agreements clearly mean nothing to him, as he clearly showed when he reverted back from what he had originally said he'd pay.
    Work123 wrote: »
    Six months later still no contract and i find out the guy that i manage has been given a pay increase. which in fact brings him onto about 200 quid more a year annually than me.
    To be fair, he probably doesn't get a 4 week paid holiday, and a 2k bonus. I'm saying this, to compare like with like.
    Work123 wrote: »
    Anyway, Im kinda looking for advise here, i dont want to leave on bad terms, I havent signed any contract saying ill pay back money
    The company director seems to have not given you a contract so he can skirt around what he agreed, and go back on his word. Unfortunately, when you leave he'll find that's a double edged sword, and he'll be left in the mess that he created.


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    #7
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Thanks for your imput guys.

    Cant seem to quote replies but i will try answer everything.

    I am due to sit my final exams this year. I graduated last year but i am doing the Hons Year.

    I do realise the other member of staff does not have the college perks i have, however and i neglected to say it, i am annoyed that because she was here a year they gave her a 15% increase, whereas I have been here 2 years with no increase (apart from the one back up to the original salary they offered me and then took away)

    Yes, up to 4 weeks paid leave is a lot and generous. This year its 2 weeks. However the terms agreed when i left my previous job was that i would get college, time off, exam fees all paid as per my old job plus an increase of 2k. Otherwise, i wouldnt have actually left my old job. However, by the time he changed his mind it was too late for me.

    Yes the new job is a huge salary increase, however thats not my reason for taking it, its an amazing opportunity. I guess you could compare it with a mechanic that works in a garage being offered a job overseeing the design and production of a new model car with the authority to make any change he sees fit. That kind of opportunity. (purely an example)

    i want to leave on good terms, i have no issue paying back the fees for this year plus the exam fees, what i do take issue with is the implication that i need to pay him back for the temporary staff he had to get because he was understaffed.

    Also he will have gained from PRSI relief but also on tax relief on my fees which i now cannot claim back (the tax) so where do i stand here?


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    #8
    Eoin
    Registered Users Posts: 21,257 ✭✭✭✭Eoin


    work123 wrote: »
    what i do take issue with is the implication that i need to pay him back for the temporary staff he had to get because he was understaffed.

    Sorry, I missed the part about having to pay for staff to replace you; that's absolutely nonsensical and just draws attention to his poor management. If he's going to be unreasonable like that, then I would wonder if it's worth even caring if you leave on good terms or not. Offering to pay back the fees, when that's not stated in your contract or another policy doc, is a very generous goodwill gesture on your behalf IMO.
    work123 wrote: »
    Also he will have gained from PRSI relief but also on tax relief on my fees which i now cannot claim back (the tax) so where do i stand here?

    Check out this link, and look into what sort of documentation you'll need to claim: http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/it31.html


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    #9
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,301 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Eoin wrote: »
    Sorry, I missed the part about having to pay for staff to replace you; that's absolute nonsensical and just draws attention to his poor management.
    Agreed. If he's going to want every dime back, f**k him. He's screwed you over, and now wants to eat his cake as well!
    Eoin wrote: »
    If he's going to be unreasonable like that, then I would wonder if it's worth even caring if you leave on good terms or not. Offering to pay back the fees, when that's not stated in your contract or another policy doc, is a very generous goodwill gesture on your behalf IMO.
    Agreed. Also, be careful; if you pay back the X, he could argue that you agree you owe him Y as well...


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