Windows XP RIP - Arrrggghhh!

bmm

This sounds a bit like the millenium bug all over again. The computer industry needs people updating their hardware & software. :rolleyes:

Keep Your antivirus & firewall in good nic and you wont have any problems. I've had windows update switched off for years and have never had any issues with malware.

yoyo

bmm wrote: »

This sounds a bit like the millenium bug all over again. The computer industry needs people updating their hardware & software. :rolleyes:

Keep Your antivirus & firewall in good nic and you wont have any problems. I've had windows update switched off for years and have never had any issues with malware.

Many people have this attitude, and as a result makes XP a very attractive target to hackers even moreso as they know it will no longer be patched.
It's quite likely malware and virus writers have been saving up exploits in XP ready to launch once it goes EOL. Also security updates for Vista, 7 and 8 may also apply to XP, which can be reverse engineered and used to exploit older OS's.
Exploits don't necessarily just rely on web browsers either, plugins, documents, images to name a few can be used to exploit systems

Nick

maki

bmm wrote: »

This sounds a bit like the millenium bug all over again. The computer industry needs people updating their hardware & software. :rolleyes:

Keep Your antivirus & firewall in good nic and you wont have any problems. I've had windows update switched off for years and have never had any issues with malware.

Sorry, but that's just terrible advice. An antivirus or a firewall will not protect you from a kernel level exploit.

There will literally be no way to completely secure an XP machine in a few weeks. Zero-day exploits will remain zero-day forever.
All it takes is a site to run some code that exploits Java or Flash or any number of third party application, which in turn will exploit a known (and never to be patched) hole in XP. With kernel level access your anti-virus is now redundant, and the code can download whatever malware or spyware that it wants.

Just because you never have had malware doesn't mean you can't get it. The odds are certainly going to increase come next week.

Gadgetman496

Have MS already released the last updates for XP or will there be a final patch prior to EOL on the 8th?

PropJoe10

gadgetman496 wrote: »

Have MS already released the last updates for XP or will there be a final patch prior to EOL on the 8th?

The last Patch Tuesday is next week, I'm assuming. After that, it'll be every man for himself

bmm

maki wrote: »

All it takes is a site to run some code that exploits Java or Flash or any number of third party application, which in turn will exploit a known (and never to be patched) hole in XP. With kernel level access your anti-virus is now redundant, and the code can download whatever malware or spyware that it wants.

Most antivirus programs contain a suite of measures to prevent this from happening. Firefox & Chrome will continue to support xp and this includes the security of the browser in an Xp environment. Avast is free and checks every web page that i visit. If i was to install a malware program on my pc i have a firewall program that will tell me that a strange program is trying to access the network, this will alert me to this issue.

I sense there are allot of vested interests trawling forums, trying to frighten people into buying new hardware & software.

yoyo

bmm wrote: »

Most antivirus programs contain a suite of measures to prevent this from happening. Firefox & Chrome will continue to support xp and this includes the security of the browser in an Xp environment. Avast is free and checks every web page that i visit. If i was to install a malware program on my pc i have a firewall program that will tell me that a strange program is trying to access the network, this will alert me to this issue.

I sense there are allot of vested interests trawling forums, trying to frighten people into buying new hardware & software.

Installing a Linux distro is free, and much more secure than keeping XP. Anti virus software or modern web browsers will not stop zero day exploits, in an ideal world they would, but unfortunately they don't

Nick

Cuddlesworth

bmm wrote: »

Most antivirus programs contain a suite of measures to prevent this from happening. Firefox & Chrome will continue to support xp and this includes the security of the browser in an Xp environment. Avast is free and checks every web page that i visit. If i was to install a malware program on my pc i have a firewall program that will tell me that a strange program is trying to access the network, this will alert me to this issue.

I sense there are allot of vested interests trawling forums, trying to frighten people into buying new hardware & software.

Chrome have extended support till April 2015. They have no intention of being linked to the malware panhandling machine that XP will turn into past that date.

bmm

"the average vulnerability window of a zero-day exploit is about 10 months. However, it can be easily shown that this window can be several years long."

Going by this Windows 8 which will have plenty of holes and if it takes on average 10 months for these hole to be filled then you need to be relying on a good firewall & antivirus and not on Microsoft .

yoyo

bmm wrote: »

"the average vulnerability window of a zero-day exploit is about 10 months. However, it can be easily shown that this window can be several years long."

Going by this Windows 8 which will have plenty of holes and if it takes on average 10 months for these hole to be filled then you need to be relying on a good firewall & antivirus and not on Microsoft .

Web browsers are not designed to detect viruses or suspicious behavior. Yes click to run or disabling plugins if "known to be vulnerable" is great, but not 100% security.
A zero day exploit could easily attack a web browser on any platform. If the OS is still being supported, however, it makes it harder for malware/virus writers to attack a system.
Windows Vista onwards are also a considerably more secure OS than a stock XP install, as none of them default to an admin account the same way XP does.

Nick

bmm

yoyo wrote: »

Web browsers are not designed to detect viruses or suspicious behavior. Yes click to run or disabling plugins if "known to be vulnerable" is great, but not 100% security.
A zero day exploit could easily attack a web browser on any platform. If the OS is still being supported, however, it makes it harder for malware/virus writers to attack a system.
Windows Vista onwards are also a considerably more secure OS than a stock XP install, as none of them default to an admin account the same way XP does.

Nick

i think you are clutching at straws . A good antivirus program will protect a web browser just fine in any OS. Flash player is as vunerable in Windows 7/8 as it is in xp. Also xp has been around so long at this stage and has had so many holes filled, that surely it will take some years before Windows 7/8 are as secure as xp (prediction).

Microsoft has to sell licences to make money, it's as simple as that.

bmm

bmm wrote: »

i think you are clutching at straws . A good antivirus program will protect a web browser just fine in any OS. Flash player is as vunerable in Windows 7/8 as it is in xp. Also xp has been around so long at this stage and has had so many holes filled, that surely it will take some years before Windows 7/8 are as secure as xp (prediction).

Microsoft has to sell licences to make money, it's as simple as that.

What about compliance for businesses? Put aside your argument for a good AV or application layer firewall, I wouldn't expose an XP box with what you recommend within a network with an IPS and IDS in front of it.

I agree with what you say about MS licences, though as I said earlier, if you are to stick to a legacy MS OS, and that is what this OS will be from this Tuesday, you would be far better off getting your hands on Win 98 which believe it or not will be safer, or just go with linux, I'm typing this on lubuntu with chrome and other applications in use and all it is consuming is 800mb of RAM, and this is a nightly (14.04 LTS) which will have support if I stick with it until the end of 2019, Win 7 will be 2020.

So there is choices available and some are more secure and come gratis...

And XP would have being a dead horse long ago only for the introduction of Netbooks...

PropJoe10

NoDrama wrote: »

What about compliance for businesses? Put aside your argument for a good AV or application layer firewall, I wouldn't expose an XP box with what you recommend within a network with an IPS and IDS in front of it.

I agree with what you say about MS licences, though as I said earlier, if you are to stick to a legacy MS OS, and that is what this OS will be from this Tuesday, you would be far better off getting your hands on Win 98 which believe it or not will be safer, or just go with linux, I'm typing this on lubuntu with chrome and other applications in use and all it is consuming is 800mb of RAM, and this is a nightly (14.04 LTS) which will have support if I stick with it until the end of 2019, Win 7 will be 2020.

So there is choices available and some are more secure and come gratis...

And XP would have being a dead horse long ago only for the introduction of Netbooks...

People seem to have very conflicting views on this. Personally, I think XP will still be alright for a home user to use for the next while, as long as they are careful with their browsing habits and downloads. But for businesses, it should be an absolute no-go. Doing business on an unpatched OS is very foolish from a compliance point of view. I must check out the new Ubuntu family distros. Big fan of Lubuntu and Xubuntu, both excellent alternatives to XP.

Mr. G

It will be interesting to see statistics on the uptake of Ubuntu and other Linux OSs. Ubuntu are rolling out their own phone operating system which looks pretty cool.

I think it's particularly hard on some businesses and schools to fork out for new licenses if they're not on the software assurance programme. Granted schools get discounts but still.

yoyo

bmm wrote: »

i think you are clutching at straws . A good antivirus program will protect a web browser just fine in any OS. Flash player is as vunerable in Windows 7/8 as it is in xp. Also xp has been around so long at this stage and has had so many holes filled, that surely it will take some years before Windows 7/8 are as secure as xp (prediction).

Microsoft has to sell licences to make money, it's as simple as that.

XP is a nightmare even now for security in its default configuration. Vista onwards introduced UAC which make them more secure for the average user. Windows 8 has Smartscreen which makes it even more secure than Windows 7 and below for the average user.

Mr. G wrote: »

It will be interesting to see statistics on the uptake of Ubuntu and other Linux OSs. Ubuntu are rolling out their own phone operating system which looks pretty cool.

I think it's particularly hard on some businesses and schools to fork out for new licenses if they're not on the software assurance programme. Granted schools get discounts but still.

It will alright. I just advised someone with a older Dell laptop to install Linux mint to replace XP with. I don't think businesses would be quick to switch as ultimately although Linux is free enterprise level support is not, and Microsoft are quite competitive when it comes to this

Nick

Cuddlesworth

PropJoe10 wrote: »

People seem to have very conflicting views on this. Personally, I think XP will still be alright for a home user to use for the next while, as long as they are careful with their browsing habits and downloads. But for businesses, it should be an absolute no-go. Doing business on an unpatched OS is very foolish from a compliance point of view. I must check out the new Ubuntu family distros. Big fan of Lubuntu and Xubuntu, both excellent alternatives to XP.

The average home user? The one with 20 toolbars on their browser, the ones who open every mail that say "check out this cool video"? I think a lot of you underestimate what's going to happen. A really good exploit will come out and it will get pushed hard. Popular websites will be hijacked, emails will come on strong, small "holiday" apps will spread like wildfire. While some of it will be the usual "malware" scam apps, most of it will undoubtedly end up for botnet use. EG, the stuff the person doesn't see.

PropJoe10

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

The average home user? The one with 20 toolbars on their browser, the ones who open every mail that say "check out this cool video"? I think a lot of you underestimate what's going to happen. A really good exploit will come out and it will get pushed hard. Popular websites will be hijacked, emails will come on strong, small "holiday" apps will spread like wildfire. While some of it will be the usual "malware" scam apps, most of it will undoubtedly end up for botnet use. EG, the stuff the person doesn't see.

To be honest, an average home user who is using an XP machine in the state you described is already going to be at serious risk, never mind after the end of support. An XP machine thats well maintained with up to date browser, flash player and limited user account should still be relatively secure - I still wouldnt recommend it to a user as being ideal, but alot of people will be taking this route. I am recommending Linux Mint or Lubuntu to any XP users I know.

mrtom

I understand security essentials will continue to provide “Anti malware” signature updates for a period, so does that mean it's anti virus sigs are no more?
Am considering "The WhiteHat Aviator™ Web Browser" to reduce risk.
https://www.whitehatsec.com/aviator/
thoughts...?

PropJoe10

mrtom wrote: »

I understand security essentials will continue to provide “Anti malware” signature updates for a period, so does that mean it's anti virus sigs are no more?

No, as far as I'm aware, the antivirus definitions will be updated until sometime next year. You wont be able to install it on XP after 8th April but if you have it installed it'll keep working.

KAGY

PropJoe10 wrote: »

.... I am recommending Linux Mint or Lubuntu to any XP users I know.

I hope you are ready to provide all the free tech support that they'll be expecting

All this talk about just switch over to [insert poster's choice of Linux distro], it's not as easy as it seems.
For the average punter, for general online use - go for it, once it's set up click Firefox or Chrome and everythings the same.

If you are even slightly techie - i.e. have used the control panel and know what a command line is - go for it too - you'll find that you'll probably like the extra control you have over your PC. Also some of the programs they have, for free, are better than the windows equivalent.

However, if you have come to a computer late in life after overcoming your technophobia - you will need to have a friendly nerd on speed dial. Why: your favourite windows programs will probably not work (at least without some tweaking).
Whlie LibreOffice is a great program - it can mess up formatting of existing Word documents, there are little things too like no right click and drag in Calc (Excel).
All your little windows programs that you bought in Tesco like the family tree program, may not even work at all, and certainly not out of the box.

I teach computers to older folk, and I would be wary about changing them over without them having someone that can fix the little showstopers that will pop up.

My recommendation to them: keep using XP for a while, but think about upgrading / getting a newer hand-me-down. IN the mean time, get someone to set up a non-admin account for them on the computer, keep your antivirus up to date and don't use Internet Explorer

Rucking_Fetard

Reports claim Windows XP can be updated via registry hack

Officially, Microsoft stopped releasing automatic public updates for Windows XP over a month ago after over 12 years. Now a registry hack has been found that, when placed in the OS, allows it to continue receiving updates.

The hack was first reported by BetaNews and later confirmed by ZDNet. By making a few changes in the registry of XP, the hack basically tricks the automatic update servers at Microsoft into thinking the OS is Windows Embedded POSReady 2009. The OS is based on Windows XP Service Pack 3 and it will continue to get security updates from Microsoft until April 2019.

The specific registry hack works with 32-bit systems but the owners of the few 64-bit Windows XP PCs can find a workaround on this forum. However, it's more than possible that this method will be short lived as Microsoft could make changes to block any securty updates that use this hack.

neowin.net/news/reports-claim-windows-xp-can-be-updated-via-registry-hack

cerastes

going to post anyway, rather than just following the thread, but want to keep a record of where this is as there are some good suggestions re other Linux kernal?? OS, not sure of the terminology.
I was recommended Ubuntu years ago, but I only tried it out recently when I heard of the impending end of support for XP. Tbh I've had XP a long time and briefly tried Vista but reverted, I was happy enough with XP, but it's time to move on, or be pushed .

So I'm trying Ubuntu, the window? environment is different and I'm not finding it easy to navigate, but the laptop is definitely running much faster (its an older secondary one I'm doing this on, I've win7 on another). I just loaded ubuntu to 2 laptops in the house before XP support ended. I cant connect to my wireless printer, the support/drivers for my printer which is relatively new seems not to exist anymore for ubuntu, but Im not stuck as it does connect wired, plus a whole other laptop to use.

I'm not too familiar with all this linux kernal terminology, but zorin and the elementaryOS look interesting, Xubuntu and Lubuntu seem like they might suit a former MS OS user, look like they might suit me better than Ubuntu which Im just trying but not really loving. I dont have loads of time to mess about with figuring it out but seems there are other more familiar options.

I left a version of xp on the two laptops this is being done on (I havent deleted totally but ubuntu has the max share of the drive space) havent used Explorer in years, mostly mozilla and thinking of using chrome, but like to have an option of browser to use in the event something goes wrong.

While I dont expect it, it'd be interesting to see a larger section of people switch to open source OS for personal use or hear of specific individual migration for a few more large organisations. Maybe there'd be more printer support , make it easier for me, while I'm not a technophobic, I'm not well up on finding these kind of solutions as theres certain basics (IT stuff) which I have no background in.

going to look up the other Linux distros? X and L Ubuntu for a start. ElementaryOS too.

riclad

I think mint linux is good for a new user ,
menus similar to windows 7.
go to menu ,software centre, install chromium. chrome like browser.
Runs much faster than windows, does,nt need an antivirus.
Comes with firefox browser, vlc media player preinstalled.
BACKUP Your data,music before you install it,
unless you are gonna run a dual boot linux, windows pc.

Overheal

I'll eventually have to learn linux. I bought a rPi for a DIY project, it needs to run a script to tweet and use a camera autonomously though.

KAGY

Just a little pointeron Linux distributions: all the ...buntus are based around the same core but with different desktops and preferred apps. Ditto with mint and zorin though there's a good bit of extra tweaking with these.
Its easy enough to change desktops without a full install simply by installing them.
Kbuntu - kde desktop
Ubuntu - gnome
Lubuntu - lxde
Xubuntu - xfce
Mythbuntu - gnome but with customised for mythtv

cerastes

Recently I replaced XP with ubuntu on 2 laptops as a trial, wasnt that keen on it, but it mostly seems to work, couldnt figure out how to get my epson printer working wirelessly. I ran some scripts? I found via googling to make the appearance more MS windows so it'd be easier to navigate, but the toolbar down the left disappeared, I think I might be able to do a fresh install over this as Im just trying out different versions and these are laptops laying about with Xp so Im ok to mess about with them while not runining my access to anything (printer/web/records), I have Win7 as my laptop. I tried Zorin too, but the web browser wasn't working at all. I'm going to give a version of Mint a shot and see if this is anygood for a netbook, so far I think ubuntu 12.04 seems the most used? and may have more support because others are using it and know what to do, the only way I can make changes is by locating scripts online and going into the terminal, but I dont have the knowledge how to do this myself, as above, this didnt have the desired outcome and a lot of what I find has terminology that seems to presuppose some working knowledge of linux, how to write commands?

Id like to utilise an opensource OS and other software, so long as its as user friendly for a non informed person like myself.
In MS OS, I would adjust settings and load or delete programs (some dont seem to want to be deleted, like Norton, couldnt get rid of it).

riclad

IF you are running xp,
use a guest account.
Get avast antivirus , much better than ms antivirus.
http://www.ehow.com/how_4855070_uninstall-programs-ubuntu.html

http://lifehacker.com/5888228/zorin-is-a-linux-os-that-looks-and-behaves-like-windows7/all

I would not do banking ,or credit purchase,s on a winxp pc.

cerastes

riclad wrote: »

IF you are running xp,
use a guest account.
Get avast antivirus , much better than ms antivirus.
http://www.ehow.com/how_4855070_uninstall-programs-ubuntu.html

http://lifehacker.com/5888228/zorin-is-a-linux-os-that-looks-and-behaves-like-windows7/all

I would not do banking ,or credit purchase,s on a winxp pc.

Xp was on another partition on this laptop, but I had backed up what images I had on it and overwrote the OS. I just did some googling and found something about changing the appearance to more windows style, just following a list of instructions and copying and pasting some scripts into the terminal window, can see where certain things are. Obviously I wouldnt have a clue where anything was or what to do without these scripts/instructions but, I've got a bit more familiar appearance and have seen were some setting changes are made that I wouldn't have before.

I'll have a look at the links,
I have another laptop (Win 7) to do regular stuff till I get more familiar with finding the essentials like setting up my printer wireless, which I couldnt sort before on ubuntu. Wasnt using this laptop to do anything like banking or anything, just had xp on a seperate partition, have the xp OS discs, but I think the ubuntu OS seems like it has the most information about it.

What kind of protection can I implment (re anti virus, Ive read its not needed) or are there settings I should be looking for?

now if I could just manage a print screen I could show off my hours effort of plagarising others work to create an ubuntu windows desktop

riclad

NO antivirus needed ,you can turn on the firewall on security settings.
I,VE Installed linux at least 12 times ,various versions,
IT usually detects all devices ,chipsets in a pc.laptop.

IF theres no unix driver ,for that printer it may not work,can you connect it via usb cable,Then install linux.
some devices have linux drivers ,if you look on the driver cd.or printer support website.
CHOOSE use password , at the main install screen , DO NOT login automatically,
as part of the install process .
when you turn on pc, enter password to login to os .
google your printer model,eg hp560gh linux driver,

MANY versions, of linux, are based on ubuntu,
with a different gui , menu ,interface ,and maybe different preinstalled apps in the iso file.
As IN windows ,you can shut off apps, services that you dont need to run,
and increase ram avaidable for general pc use.

cerastes

riclad wrote: »

NO antivirus needed ,you can turn on the firewall on security settings.
I,VE Installed linux at least 12 times ,various versions,
IT usually detects all devices ,chipsets in a pc.laptop.

IF theres no unix driver ,for that printer it may not work,can you connect it via usb cable,Then install linux.
some devices have linux drivers ,if you look on the driver cd.or printer support website.
CHOOSE use password , at the main install screen , DO NOT login automatically,
as part of the install process .
when you turn on pc, enter password to login to os .
google your printer model,eg hp560gh linux driver,

MANY versions, of linux, are based on ubuntu,
with a different gui , menu ,interface ,and maybe different preinstalled apps in the iso file.

Printer works connected via usb, detects it automatically.
I looked up to find some information for the printer to connect it wirelessly, but the site that provided the support stopped over a year ago.
I'll try the manufacturer site again, no urgency but it'd be handy.
Im not logging in automatically, as I can choose between different views or themes, I seem to have four to choose from, I'll log into the others to see what they look like, I'll look up what you suggest, see if I can find anything, that I can understand.

Messing around with settings, I managed to dissapear icons and then couldnt access anything, I loaded Zorin and could not get the browser to work (mozilla), was going to try mint but looked up changing settings for making ubuntu more win 7 appearance as I didnt really like the buttons on the top or on the left, found something using or adjusting xfce to change the appearance.

Id like to know more of the technical stuff rather than just making changes by copying and pasting scripts, but I dont think Id have the time and not sure where to start.

The laptop seems to be running quite fast, Im getting a crash report, but it looks like something Ive seen when adjusting the appearance settings to bring a MS appearance, but that was just messing around seeing what could be done by following instructions, so I might try delete that.

I just followed this, step by step for anyone thats interested (installing and customising xfce part)
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2028896/how-to-make-ubuntu-linux-look-like-windows-7.html

seems I can do a screenshot b4t noticed some other things,