SEPA - A lot more hassle than it's worth, and it costs money

Seve OB

[font=verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif]OK, so I need to have a rant.[/font]
[font=verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif]
SEPA, this great European initiative to make life easy and efficient for everybody is a royal pain in the arse, on top of costing money... all for something we already have that works fine, to do something we don't need or want (interact with foreigners). We are a small Irish company, based in Dublin and supply Dublin and only Dublin with our services.  I have pretty much neglected to do anything about it till now as the old system is still working.  Seems I'm not the only one, deadline keeps getting extended from what I see.[/font]
[font=verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif]
We use Business on Line for uploading files to pay suppliers / wages & according to BOI this won't change and I don't need to worry about anything. (I don't believe them, I smell something coming down the line).[/font]
[font=verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif]
We pay ad-hoc supplier payments to beneficiaries we already have stored on BOL. BOI say nothing to change here either, but it has changed.  Now you can't pay a once off supplier.  You have to go through a rigmarole of setting them up, taking time and this in turn just increases a manageable list of regular suppliers to include people we never need to pay again.

Now the icing on the cake is when it comes to DD's.   We collect DD's from a handful of customers, maybe 25 once a month and not a lot of money is involved.  We currently have all these customers set up in BOL and all we need to do is enter an amount beside their name and BOL creates the file for us. This feature of BOL is being done away with and there is no suitable replacement available.[/font]

[font=verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif]BOI would not tell me how to create the new DD file, but instead kept directing me to a third party to process and they have "recommended" a partner to use!  Smelt a rat here, how much of a kickback are BOI getting?????  Anyway, I finally got a file format, but in fairness I see what they meant, you would need a masters in computer science to make head or tail of this pain008 stuff.  It ain't nothing like the csv files we send our wages on (that is easy to understand).[/font]

[font=verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Pain008 and pain002..... wtf? why can't they at least use sensible file names?[/font]

[font=verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif]So it seems like we will have to get someone to do it for us....... but a quick look on the web, I can see some companies will integrate with Sage 50 but are charging €370 upwards (We can't claim VAT back).  Sage also don't seem interested in producing a file..... I'm sure there are lots of Sage customers who want to charge their customers DD's????[/font]

[font=verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Now like any efficient company, we delegate.  Oh no, but you can't do that with SEPA.  Instead of getting one of the office employees to process DD's on 1 website, we now have to get a third party involved to create a file for us, which in turn can only be uploaded by BOL Administrator 1 to a completely different website.  Then he has to inform BOL Administrator 2 that he has done this, who now in turn has to go onto yet another website to approve the file.[/font]

[font=verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif]SERIOUSLY??????  These guys are company directors with better things to be doing, and not always on the premises for many different reasons.  I mean, how stupid is this?  It is a recipe for passwords to be dished around the place.  Something I don't like doing, but that is unavoidable with these ridiculous constraints[/font]
[font=verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif]
What kind of a Joke is this SEPA crap?????????????

[/font]

edanto

well said

Bank of Ireland: Alison

[font=Arial, sans-serif]Hi stevieob[/font]
[font=Arial, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=Arial, sans-serif]Thank you for your detailed post.[/font]
[font=Arial, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=Arial, sans-serif]We understand your concerns in relation to this fairly new European initiative. Some of the new processes may take time for consumers, businesses and for us to get used to. [/font][font=Arial, sans-serif]Hopefully after the initial transfer phase, it will then allow us to focus on some of the benefits SEPA has to offer.[/font]
[font=Arial, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=Arial, sans-serif]Please be assured, here on Boards, we always welcome all types of feedback and suggestions. We really appreciate the time taken to compose such a comprehensive post.[/font]


[font=Arial, sans-serif]We also like to extend a hand here to help with the SEPA migration. If you would like to send us a Private Message, we can arrange a call back for you. An expert within this area will be more than happy to take some time and go through all your questions and offer any assistance with the changes related to SEPA. [/font]


[font=Arial, sans-serif]Thanks again, we hope to receive your PM soon.[/font]

[font=Arial, sans-serif]Alison[/font]

Seve OB

Bank of Ireland: Alison wrote: »

[font=Arial, sans-serif]Hi stevieob[/font]
[font=Arial, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=Arial, sans-serif]Thank you for your detailed post.[/font]
[font=Arial, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=Arial, sans-serif]We understand your concerns in relation to this fairly new European initiative. Some of the new processes may take time for consumers, businesses and for us to get used to. [/font][font=Arial, sans-serif]Hopefully after the initial transfer phase, it will then allow us to focus on some of the benefits SEPA has to offer.[/font]
[font=Arial, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=Arial, sans-serif]Please be assured, here on Boards, we always welcome all types of feedback and suggestions. We really appreciate the time taken to compose such a comprehensive post.[/font]


[font=Arial, sans-serif]We also like to extend a hand here to help with the SEPA migration. If you would like to send us a Private Message, we can arrange a call back for you. An expert within this area will be more than happy to take some time and go through all your questions and offer any assistance with the changes related to SEPA. [/font]


[font=Arial, sans-serif]Thanks again, we hope to receive your PM soon.[/font]

[font=Arial, sans-serif]Alison[/font]

Thanks for your reply Alison,

In fairness to BOI, they have been pretty decent to deal with.  I have spoken on the phone to a good few people over the last year and they have given me all the information, advice, emails, guidance etc that I need, all be it complicated!!

My vent of frustration is not really to do with my lack of understanding of SEPA (think I have my head round most of it) and therefore I don't see any benefit of me sending a PM to waste yours or my time going over all the same stuff again.

I understand the SEPA regulations are not being brought in by BOI and my vent of frustration is not necessarily aimed at BOI (you just happen to be our bank!) but more a way to "get it of my chest" as I have not heard any discussion of how much this is actually affecting businesses, and none of it (that I can see) in a good way.

Having said that, I do feel you could make your systems and procedures a bit simpler, mainly outlined below.

1.  Why can't we still use BOL to create new SEPA DD XML files?  After all, BOL is converting Wages files.......

2.  If we really must create these XML files ourselves (or third party), why can't BOI offer an alternative to BOL to convert the files for their customers as a cost effective solution?

3.  Why the rigmarole of 3 different online banking websites now?

4.  Why only BOL Administrators have to do all this?

Bank of Ireland: Alison

Hi stevieob

Thanks very much for your post.

Just on a quick note, I've sent your questions onto the SEPA Development Team. 

As soon as we hear back, we will let you know.

Thanks
Alison

Bank of Ireland: Alison

[font=Verdana, sans-serif]Hi stevieob[/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif]As briefly mentioned in the previous post, we have passed on your questions to our SEPA Development Team, they would like to thank you for taking the time to voice your concerns and are aware the steps in the changeover have required  business customers to adapt to these changes.[/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif]They will certainly take your questions on board and will continuously work to offer customers with as much help with the changeover. At present, the necessary changes will remain.[/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif]We do understand this may not be the answer you are anticipating, regrettably, in this case[/font][font=Verdana, sans-serif], we are unable to provide you with this level of information. As previously offered, if you want us to arrange a call back for you, our customer care team are more than happy to do this. [/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif]We really do appreciate your comments advising representatives had been helpful, as much as possible with these changes.[/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif]Thanks again[/font]

[font=Verdana, sans-serif]Alison[/font]

Seve OB

Bank of Ireland: Alison wrote: »

[font=Verdana, sans-serif]Hi stevieob[/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif]As briefly mentioned in the previous post, we have passed on your questions to our SEPA Development Team, they would like to thank you for taking the time to voice your concerns and are aware the steps in the changeover have required  business customers to adapt to these changes.[/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif]They will certainly take your questions on board and will continuously work to offer customers with as much help with the changeover. At present, the necessary changes will remain.[/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif]We do understand this may not be the answer you are anticipating, regrettably, in this case[/font][font=Verdana, sans-serif], we are unable to provide you with this level of information. As previously offered, if you want us to arrange a call back for you, our customer care team are more than happy to do this. [/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif]We really do appreciate your comments advising representatives had been helpful, as much as possible with these changes.[/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=Verdana, sans-serif]Thanks again[/font]

[font=Verdana, sans-serif]Alison[/font]

Thanks for taking the time to follow this up Alison and for coming back to me.

I have had enough discussions on the phone etc with BOI at this stage and I knew that it would go no further.  As I say, I just needed to have a rant!  But it was nice that you took notice of my frustrations.  I'm sure I can't be the only one!

Seve OB

So I just got an email below from BOI, so it seems more SEPA disruptions are now on the cards for us, with a bank holiday we don't even have!!!!!!.

I'm continually getting backlash week in and week out about delayed payments ever since the introduction of SEPA...... really pissed off with it now!

I already sent bank files to for payment on Friday.

Can somebody please tell me if they will now be delayed????????

I love the way this email was sprung on me today.....

<snip>

Bank of Ireland: Sarah

Hi stevieob,

Please be aware that the 1st of May is a Bank Holiday in most Euro currency/ EU countries and as such the Euro payments clearing and settlement system will be closed. This will affect all SEPA bank transfers and it is not solely affecting Bank of Ireland. 

As we do not have account access here, we are unable to clarify whether your payment set up for Friday will be affected. This depends on the type of payment you have set up. 

However, you can find a clear overview of the delays on payments for the 1st May Bank Holiday here 

Thanks,
Sarah

Seve OB

Bank of Ireland: Sarah wrote: »

Hi stevieob,

Please be aware that the 1st of May is a Bank Holiday in most Euro currency/ EU countries and as such the Euro payments clearing and settlement system will be closed. This will affect all SEPA bank transfers and it is not solely affecting Bank of Ireland. 

As we do not have account access here, we are unable to clarify whether your payment set up for Friday will be affected. This depends on the type of payment you have set up. 

However, you can find a clear overview of the delays on payments for the 1st May Bank Holiday here 

Thanks,
Sarah

they are wages files, paying staff, all with Irish bank accounts, but not necessarily BOI accounts.

Also can you please tell me why the email was only sent today, after files have been uploaded online, now I am going to have staff ringing in my ear all day on Friday because of this..... because our BH is next Monday, I suppose it will be now Tuesday before they get paid????????

May day has never been a Bank Holiday in Ireland so why should it have entered my head that it required consideration.

Bad form on BOI for being slow out of the blocks here and not informing their customers on time, not impressed.

Seve OB

Boards.ie: Niamh wrote: »

Stevieob - warning given for misquoting another Bank of Ireland rep after my warning posted here. The misquote has been removed.

Niamh PM sent back to you.  the first warning you posted for me, was only issued 14 minutes after my above post.  Above was a genuine error as I explained to you in PM.

Bank of Ireland: Sarah

Hi stevieob,

Please see the information on the link in my previous reply for the dates that payments will be credited. 

Also, as mentioned in this link, with regards to payments scheduled for Friday May 2nd: "Payments will be posted to accounts as quickly as possible and, in any event, all accounts will be updated by close of business on 2nd May." 

Thanks,
Sarah

Seve OB

getting hounded........................ seeems as though nobody has been paid a penny so far.... money is gone from our account though

kerosene

I sent a sepa payment on 19 may after the 3pm cut off point to my first trust account in N.Ireland. I expected it to reach my account close of business on 20 May but no sign of it yet. It has been debited from my boi account. What is the exact timeframe for these type of transactions?

Bank of Ireland: Billy

kerosene wrote: »

I sent a sepa payment on 19 may after the 3pm cut off point to my first trust account in N.Ireland. I expected it to reach my account close of business on 20 May but no sign of it yet. It has been debited from my boi account. What is the exact timeframe for these type of transactions?

Hi Kerosene,

I'm not sure if your payment was made via Bank of Ireland 365 Online or Business OnLine. Business Online offers 2 payment options - Same Day and Non-Urgent Next Day payment.

If you made a SEPA, next day payment after the cut-off time, the payment would not be processed until the next day and would reach the payee account on the following day - today. 

Thanks

Billy

kerosene

Bank of Ireland: Billy wrote: »

kerosene wrote: »

I sent a sepa payment on 19 may after the 3pm cut off point to my first trust account in N.Ireland. I expected it to reach my account close of business on 20 May but no sign of it yet. It has been debited from my boi account. What is the exact timeframe for these type of transactions?

Hi Kerosene,

I'm not sure if your payment was made via Bank of Ireland 365 Online or Business OnLine. Business Online offers 2 payment options - Same Day and Non-Urgent Next Day payment.

If you made a SEPA, next day payment after the cut-off time, the payment would not be processed until the next day and would reach the payee account on the following day - today. 

Thanks

Billy

It was boi365 online. I wasnt given any options. It is a convenient service for me but it does seem very slow. The payment came through this afternoon but it should take 24 hrs max.

Bank of Ireland: Billy

kerosene wrote: »

Bank of Ireland: Billy wrote: »

kerosene wrote: »

I sent a sepa payment on 19 may after the 3pm cut off point to my first trust account in N.Ireland. I expected it to reach my account close of business on 20 May but no sign of it yet. It has been debited from my boi account. What is the exact timeframe for these type of transactions?

Hi Kerosene,

I'm not sure if your payment was made via Bank of Ireland 365 Online or Business OnLine. Business Online offers 2 payment options - Same Day and Non-Urgent Next Day payment.

If you made a SEPA, next day payment after the cut-off time, the payment would not be processed until the next day and would reach the payee account on the following day - today. 

Thanks

Billy

It was boi365 online. I wasnt given any options. It is a convenient service for me but it does seem very slow. The payment came through this afternoon but it should take 24 hrs max.

Hi kerosene,

Many thanks for your post.

The payment was received in one working day. For the funds to have arrived yesterday, you would have needed to have transferred before the cut-off time. You can view the Bank of Ireland 365 Online cut-off times are here

Thanks

Billy

Seve OB

Time for another rant! Oh SEPA SEPA SEPA, you are breaking my heart!

So finally the DD facility has been removed from BOL.

Now we must go to a third party.... [font=Arial, sans-serif]Sentenial.... despite asking for alternative suppliers this is the only name BOI will give. I specifically discussed this issue on the phone with someone from BOI, who told me he knew of other suppliers. I asked him, and he said he would list them in an email, Email came....guess what, [/font][font=Arial, sans-serif]Sentenial was the only name mentioned. So c[/font][font=Arial, sans-serif]an someone please clarify[/font]

<snip>

[font=Arial, sans-serif]From what I see [/font][font=Arial, sans-serif]Sentenial are the most expensive. Why will BOI not tell us who else can do this?[/font]


[font=Arial, sans-serif]Interesting, my comment at the start[/font]

stevieob wrote: »

[font=verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif]We use Business on Line for uploading files to pay suppliers / wages & according to BOI this won't change and I don't need to worry about anything. (I don't believe them, I smell something coming down the line).[/font]

Well low and behold, I was told that we are soon going to have to do wages and supplier payments this way in the future! shocker

Anyway, back to DD's . So I have found someone called SEPAApp who will supply software for less that €50... a once off payment, no annual fees. cheapest of the lot, they seem to cover all Europe and are not specifically Irish. Makes you wonder though, the Irish are getting royally screwed... shop around guys and take your business out of the country.

Anyway, I was having failures and it turns out I was making bad file names, without PAIN008 in the title and using spaces! Quite ironic really isn't it that you have to include the word "PAIN" in the title.... I think my next file title might include a couple of words after that!

Then got that sorted and there were still problems. Got quite confusing reasons for BOI detailing in unexplainable language what the issues were, so I just forwarded it on to SEPAApp. They explained it very simply. There is a tick button in their APP to create a PAIN.003.02 file or a PAIN.001.02 file..... how could I ever be so silly!!!

Why could BOI not just tell me that, when you open the file it tells you at the top!

So then I got it narrowed down to one error. Girl on the phone told me where in the file it was, So I opened up the field of thistles and found the location Line 8 Column 23 (except there are no real columns). Then she tells me that she has no understanding of what is required and basically leaves it at that! So I asked her why can't someone who knew what they were talking about discuss it with me and tell me what is required... asked at least 3 times and go no sensible reply, just that they are not trained.... FFS, someone must know in plain English what the reason for failure is and what needs to be done to fix it!

I have emailed BOI's mumbo jumbo to SEPAApp and await their response.

Now this brings me on to the process of doing DD's. It used to take about 10 minutes on BOL to to them. Despite wasting the last 3 days trying and failing, the new process still takes an AWFUL LOT LONGER.

Use SEPAApp is quite simple really. I have created a simple excel file and just need to throw amounts in beside customers the same way i did on BOL. Then import that file to SEPAApp, click on save and my XML file is created. So this process takes a couple of minutes longer than the BOL process, and everything from here on is adding time to my day!

File gateway.... login keeps failing first time and I keep having to try again. Don't tell me I am using incorrect details. I am not. I've logged in so many times over the last few days, that I have spotted there is a problem here.

Of course, as I have told you I am not a BOL administrator, so when I was having trouble uploading the file, as I was using someone elses login details, BOI wouldn't talk to me. Finally the girl saw sense and realised that my query was a general one and not specific to passwords etc, she directed me to a tutorial website..... of course she didn't believe me when I told her I got a blank white screen on the File gateway page, with nothing more than login details. Turns out the tutorials are on the 2nd login page, Payments plus. Maybe a point to note here BOI, make is simple and put the tutorial on the page that counts?????

Anyway, I follow the guidelines and upload the file. I have done this about 8 times now with all the failures. Each time takes at least 15-30 minutes before I know the file has failed. Then I have to wait to get a call or email with the reasons it has failed. I'm not ringing any more cause I will be on hold for at least 20 minutes before I get through to someone.

I'm pulling my hair out at this stage... it's a nightmare.

Seve OB

stevieob wrote: »

[font=verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif]We pay ad-hoc supplier payments to beneficiaries we already have stored on BOL. BOI say nothing to change here either, but it has changed.  Now you can't pay a once off supplier.  You have to go through a rigmarole of setting them up, taking time and this in turn just increases a manageable list of regular suppliers to include people we never need to pay again.
[/font]

Incidentally, in the great SEPA strive to make things more efficient, because of the above, we are going backward.


I will no longer pay an ad hoc supplier through the bank.


We now issue cheques only.


I'm also strongly considering to remove the facility for our customers to pay us by DD.


neither of these decisions have come lightly, and they are both quite regressive, but they are the only sensible decisions that can be reached as a result of all the hoops we are now having to jump through.

Legislator

Go the www.ipso.ie and this link http://www.ipso.ie/section/IPSOSEPADocumentsLinks

You will find a Software Vendor list which provides details of the many vendors providing SEPA services.

Seve OB

Legislator wrote: »

Go the www.ipso.ie and this link http://www.ipso.ie/section/IPSOSEPADocumentsLinks

You will find a Software Vendor list which provides details of the many vendors providing SEPA services.

Many Thanks for that, I'll go and look now.  That would have been so hard for BOI to tell me wouldn't it!!



Also Niamh I see you removed part of my comment,

"Last edited by Boards.ie: Niamh: 19.08.2014 at 17:07. Reason: potentially defamatory comments removed"

I've no problem with that, you do what you have to do, but I don't think there was anything defamatory said, I genuinely felt I had asked very valid questions of BOI.  I think it is quite obvious at this point, that I am quite passionate about this topic!

Seve OB

the silence is deafening!

Irish Steve

The link to the IPSO site was very helpful, in that I've just discovered that it's acceptable under SEPA to generate multiple payments to different accounts, with all of them being covered by one debit to the payers account.

That's something that the banks (all of them) have kept very quiet about, and for quite a few organisations, I suspect this one issue could make a significant difference to their bank charges.

Seve OB

Irish Steve wrote: »

The link to the IPSO site was very helpful, in that I've just discovered that it's acceptable under SEPA to generate multiple payments to different accounts, with all of them being covered by one debit to the payers account.

That's something that the banks (all of them) have kept very quiet about, and for quite a few organisations, I suspect this one issue could make a significant difference to their bank charges.

it's nothing new.  we've being doing that for years, and you still get well charged for it

Seve OB

Tumbleweed!

I see more problems for BOI today........ I bet it's got to do with SEPA, never heard of any of these issues up till recently, now they are like busses!

Tow

stevieob wrote: »

Irish Steve wrote: »

The link to the IPSO site was very helpful, in that I've just discovered that it's acceptable under SEPA to generate multiple payments to different accounts, with all of them being covered by one debit to the payers account.

it's nothing new.  we've being doing that for years, and you still get well charged for it

It is controlled by the 'Batch Booking' boolean tag in the PAIN001/008 files. If your bank is 100% SEPA compliant...
The banks operating in Ireland (except Danske!) will just override this with True, so by default you get one Debit/Credit on your account.

Seve OB

BOI are you just going to ignore me????

Bank of Ireland: Tara

Hi stevieob,

Thanks for getting in touch.

We've gone through your last few posts here and cannot see any direct questions for us. Apologies if we have missed a question. If you would like to specify your query, we'd be more than happy to help. Rest assured, all of your feedback has been passed on to the relevant teams.

Thanks
Tara

Seve OB

Bank of Ireland: Tara wrote: »

Hi stevieob,

Thanks for getting in touch.

We've gone through your last few posts here and cannot see any direct questions for us. Apologies if we have missed a question. If you would like to specify your query, we'd be more than happy to help. Rest assured, all of your feedback has been passed on to the relevant teams.

Thanks
Tara

Well maybe i didn't stick a question mark in, but if you read my post, I think it was quite clear where I had issues.

Why BOI keep telling me Senteniual are the only people who create xml files, and why they won't tell me who else can do them.

Why I was told wages and suppliers payments won't have to be done this SEPA way, but now it is imminent?

Why BOI staff are not trained to understand the files and be able to explain the problems with my files?

Why BOL is no longer good enough?

Why 3 websites now?

Why does each process take soooo loooooonnnnnnnnggggg?

File gateway takes at least 15 minutes before it tells you a file has failed.

I just uploaded a file that I think should be ok.  well actually that was close on 2 hours ago.  no failure message yet, so i take that as a good thing.

i keep logging into Payments plus but still no files awaiting authorisation!!

how long should this take?

WHY OH WHY CANT ALL THIS BE DONE ON BOL????????????

another afternoon wasted here!

Seve OB

Still no file for authorisation and no failure to report on it..... so..............Another wasted 20 mins on the phone........ no wiser, they tell me it failed and can't tell me why..................  Very busy I'm told..... they will be in touch!!!!!


Great stuff..... that means you need to hire more staff.

my apologies to the girl who took the brunt end of my frustration on the phone, I do appreciate it is not her fault and I told her that.  She will log my complaints.. but why?  who is going to address them, cause nobody has so far!

Tow

Q1: Why BOI keep telling me Senteniual are the only people who create xml files, and why they won't tell me who else can do them.

A1: They did a deal with them, to become BOI's preferred provider.

Q2: Why I was told wages and suppliers payments won't have to be done this SEPA way, but now it is imminent?

A2: Legal requirement, the other banks started to accept SEPA credit (SCT) files a year ago, but BOI were not ready until a few months ago.

Q3: Why BOI staff are not trained to understand the files and be able to explain the problems with my files?

A3: BOI have outsourced all SEPA processing, so have not built up the in-house expertise you gain from doing a job yourself. Problems with the front facing staff not fully understanding the files and differences between testing and live systems, are not unique to BOI. However, with the others is it possible to get talking to the the people who actually designed/wrote/run their systems.

BTW: BOI's SEPA file format follows to the original IPSO SEPA 'specification', which differs from the standard EPC/ISO 20022 specifications. The other Irish banks spotted this early in their development and reverted to the EPC standard. This will lead to problems if your system was not written/changed for the Irish market. If you can't get an answer from BOI PM me your queries.

Q4: Why BOL is no longer good enough?

A4: Last of investment in IT for many years, no in house IT staff and out sourcing to the lowest bidder.

Q5 Why 3 websites now?

A5: As per A4.

Q6: Why does each process take soooo loooooonnnnnnnnggggg?

A5: As per A4.

Q6: how long should this take?

A6: I'll let BOI answer that...

Q7 WHY OH WHY CANT ALL THIS BE DONE ON BOL????????????

A7: It is outsourced, as per A4.