We Need To Talk About Slow Play

SnowDrifts

Pros

People who watch the PGA will know that slow play is steadily getting worse. These stupid pre-shot routines and drawn out discussions. Everyone knows that when a player is put on the clock, he speeds up. Then immediately after being taken off the clock, he goes right back into his slow routine. It's almost comical. Once on the clock... they should remain on the clock. Simple.

Oh and these 5 minute discussions about wind direction (I'm looking at you Phil and Bones) needs to stop. Some interesting thoughts from Snedeker here on slow play.
http://www.golfchannel.com/media/feherty-snedeker-plays-slowly-punish-slow-players/

Amateur

"I've paid my fee, I'm out here to enjoy myself so I will take my time." - No, you will not. The rules of golf dictate otherwise. If you enjoy a nice leisurely stroll... take to the hills.

I simply can't understand how some players with slow routines can even hit the ball. I've seen guys addressing the ball for 10-15 seconds after taking 5 full practice swings. If I did that - I would knock down every shot. Everyone should try getting rid of these silly pre-shot routines. Yardage...check. Take out club. Quick practice swing and hit. Just try it... you might be surprised on the effect of your scores.

Russman

John Divney wrote: »

I'd love to see a full time sheet on a weekend do 3.45, where does this happen?

That's the million dollar question. It doesn't happen, but why doesn't it happen ?

I'd venture that most groups who play in the first hour or so of a timesheet will be around in little over 3 hours, and certainly under 3.30ish. Where does the delay start ? I know in my club there's one group of guys who play around 8.30am and you just know that if you're after them on the sheet its going to be a slow day, they're regularly on the 15th tee when the group ahead of them finishes on the 18th. They seem to be the cut-off between normal pace and slow pace, for whatever reason. Their defence is basically "we were around in 3.45, what's the problem ?", ignoring the 3 clear holes ahead of them and the guys waiting on every shot behind them.

I'm not an advocate of running around the course, but there's simply no reason for any round not to be approx or slightly under 4 hours.

Dealerz

^^^ exactly.... What else is there to think about?

alxmorgan

SnowDrifts wrote: »

om/media/feherty-snedeker-plays-slowly-punish-slow-players/[/url]

Amateur

"I've paid my fee, I'm out here to enjoy myself so I will take my time."

This is the one that gets me the most. Fine if it's your own private golf course. But I paid my fee too and I don't want to be standing around constantly waiting for you. So either hurry the f&*k up or get out of my f&*king way.

Usually this attitude goes together with the let no-one through attitude too. :rolleyes:

John Divney

Russman wrote: »

That's the million dollar question. It doesn't happen, but why doesn't it happen ?

I'd venture that most groups who play in the first hour or so of a timesheet will be around in little over 3 hours, and certainly under 3.30ish. Where does the delay start ? I know in my club there's one group of guys who play around 8.30am and you just know that if you're after them on the sheet its going to be a slow day, they're regularly on the 15th tee when the group ahead of them finishes on the 18th. They seem to be the cut-off between normal pace and slow pace, for whatever reason. Their defence is basically "we were around in 3.45, what's the problem ?", ignoring the 3 clear holes ahead of them and the guys waiting on every shot behind them.

I'm not an advocate of running around the course, but there's simply no reason for any round not to be approx or slightly under 4 hours.

Yep, agreed totally, the chance to play sub 3.45 is rare on the weekend bar the early slots

I think the gps trackers like they have in Castleknock should be standard, the culprits can't hide and people would psychologically play faster

Rikand

SnowDrifts wrote: »

Pros
Some interesting thoughts from Snedeker here on slow play.
http://www.golfchannel.com/media/feherty-snedeker-plays-slowly-punish-slow-players/

This was awesome! - Love what he said at the end about deliberately going slow so that slow players he plays with would get fined!

SnowDrifts wrote: »

Amateur

I simply can't understand how some players with slow routines can even hit the ball. I've seen guys addressing the ball for 10-15 seconds after taking 5 full practice swings. If I did that - I would knock down every shot. Everyone should try getting rid of these silly pre-shot routines. Yardage...check. Take out club. Quick practice swing and hit. Just try it... you might be surprised on the effect of your scores.

This times a million!

charlieIRL

That round in Esker wasn't our fault as Rikand said. Just out of curosity - how long did it take the first groups to go around??

Just thinking of Portumna as well, our round was fairly long there too and I don't think any of us were playing slow and we weren't held up and it was still well over 5 hours. Only delay was on the 18th when i had to run back to the 17th green for my skycaddie.

When I'm planing on playing a round I have always allowed 3.5 hours and more for a 4 ball.

Russman

charlieIRL wrote: »

When I'm planing on playing a round I have always allowed 3.5 hours and more for a 4 ball.

Absolutely, I think everyone factors in 4 hours when considering to play or planning etc, and that's fine. But it doesn't mean it has to actually take 4 hours all the time.

It depends a little on the course too though, 4 hours on a lot of courses can seem an eternity, to be fair on a real big layout you can play briskly and still take 4 hours, if there's lots of walking between greens and tees.

John Divney

Oh yeah, if there were less trolleys and more lightweight carry/stand bags, I'd wager a good chunk of time would be wiped out.

You can bring them right up to tee box, not have to re route for roped of areas, bring them into deep rough, a major time saver, and walk through greens, another saver.

Dealerz

charlieIRL wrote: »

That round in Esker wasn't our fault as Rikand said. Just out of curosity - how long did it take the first groups to go around??

Just thinking of Portumna as well, our round was fairly long there too and I don't think any of us were playing slow and we weren't held up and it was still well over 5 hours. Only delay was on the 18th when i had to run back to the 17th green for my skycaddie.

When I'm planing on playing a round I have always allowed 3.5 hours and more for a 4 ball.

For esker hills. I think 4.15 (could be wrong...I think reganovski clocked us) for a 3 ball....which ain't quick but the gap between us and next group of 3 balls at 17th tee box was very noticeable as stated above.

Seve OB

Russman wrote: »

they're regularly on the 15th tee when the group ahead of them finishes on the 18th. They seem to be the cut-off between normal pace and slow pace, for whatever reason. Their defence is basically "we were around in 3.45, what's the problem ?", ignoring the 3 clear holes ahead of them and the guys waiting on every shot behind them.

Herin lies the problem. Really and truly it doesn't matter how slow or quick we are if we get stuck behind an ignorant slow group in front who haven't kept up with the group ahead of them and refuse to let people through.

I refer to my earlier post.

"Your place on the golf course it directly behind the group in front and not directly in front of the group behind"

If we all keep up with the group in front it doesn't really matter about taking our time over shots (I'm not talking minutes here). Obviously good course management in all the valid arguments posted already add to getting around without any undue delays, once the early groups get their fingers out........

TheDoc

Russman wrote: »

That's the million dollar question. It doesn't happen, but why doesn't it happen ?

I'd venture that most groups who play in the first hour or so of a timesheet will be around in little over 3 hours, and certainly under 3.30ish. Where does the delay start ?

Course design can have an impact as well. I know on our course there are two points where once the timesheet is in full swing, delays crop up around this area and it has a knock on effect. To do with walking routes from greens to tee boxes, noticed it on a few other courses as well.

Seve OB

charlieIRL wrote: »

Just thinking of Portumna as well, our round was fairly long there too and I don't think any of us were playing slow and we weren't held up and it was still well over 5 hours. Only delay was on the 18th when i had to run back to the 17th green for my skycaddie.

Think we were third out. We were on the the on 17th tee before the group behind us had got to 15th tee box...

mike12

Well it seems the golfers from Boards are slow when they play together.
I like to play fast but if the course is full all i ask for is a decent pace and 4 hours isn't rushing anybody. I have played Roganstown walking as a 2 ball in 2.45. A 4ball shouldn't be 4.30.
Last night we played last group out no one in front of us for the front 9 played it in 1.25, there was a 3 ball 3 holes ahead that we caught on the 9th they then seemed to speed up but didn't let us thru as they were stuck behind a 2 ball back 9 took almost 2 hours. The 2ball had no one on the course ahead of them but were just ambling around.

Slicemeister

John Divney wrote: »

Oh yeah, if there were less trolleys and more lightweight carry/stand bags, I'd wager a good chunk of time would be wiped out.

You can bring them right up to tee box, not have to re route for roped of areas, bring them into deep rough, a major time saver, and walk through greens, another saver.

Any golf club trying to implement this strategy would lose my custom asap.

Biggest bugbear of mine are those lads who stand with their mouth open looking at their partners playing, and only then think about approaching or sizing up their own shot.

"Nice shot" I hear (sometimes) over my right shoulder and I'm thinking "what are you still doing there you plik?".

josie19

charlieIRL wrote: »

That round in Esker wasn't our fault as Rikand said. Just out of curosity - how long did it take the first groups to go around??

Just thinking of Portumna as well, our round was fairly long there too and I don't think any of us were playing slow and we weren't held up and it was still well over 5 hours. Only delay was on the 18th when i had to run back to the 17th green for my skycaddie.

When I'm planing on playing a round I have always allowed 3.5 hours and more for a 4 ball.

You were playing slow if you weren't held up - no defence for that time

Russman

stevieob wrote: »

"Your place on the golf course it directly behind the group in front and not directly in front of the group behind"

100%, but some groups just simply don't regard that as being correct or right.

The other issue that's annoying is that everyone can have a bad hole where you lose a ball or have a disaster, but no effort is made to get back in position. Guys seem to feel they shouldn't have to speed up for a hole or two to make up the ground they've lost through a bad hole.

Rikand

charlieIRL wrote: »

That round in Esker wasn't our fault as Rikand said. Just out of curosity - how long did it take the first groups to go around??

Just thinking of Portumna as well, our round was fairly long there too and I don't think any of us were playing slow and we weren't held up and it was still well over 5 hours. Only delay was on the 18th when i had to run back to the 17th green for my skycaddie.

When I'm planing on playing a round I have always allowed 3.5 hours and more for a 4 ball.

As a 4ball and first out in portumna we were around in 4h 30 minutes. Would have been a bit quicker, but one of the lads in our group was going well and so he slowed down his routine massively

josie19

Rikand wrote: »

As a 4ball and first out in portumna we were around in 4h 30 minutes. Would have been a bit quicker, but one of the lads in our group was going well and so he slowed down his routine massively

Bet he finished poorly because of the change

Rikand

Rikand wrote: »

As a 4ball and first out in portumna we were around in 4h 30 minutes. Would have been a bit quicker, but one of the lads in our group was going well and so he slowed down his routine massively

We caught the group ahead of us too, that had a 2 hole head start on us aswell

Miley Byrne

GreeBo wrote: »

I played Esker Hills on Sunday, in a two ball, in a buggy and it still took over 5 hours. Blind shots everywhere on an unknown course do that. I wont even comment on having to search for your ball on the "fairway"...

I played in the society with Dealerz & Reganovski & as he says it was around the 4hour 15 minute mark. We weren't racing or anything but we kept a good pace. Over 5 hours in a 2 ball with or without a buggy is madness if you ask me. I've played in scratch cups on links courses in fourballs that haven't taken as long as that

Miley Byrne

Rikand wrote: »

As a 4ball and first out in portumna we were around in 4h 30 minutes. Would have been a bit quicker, but one of the lads in our group was going well and so he slowed down his routine massively

Wasn't me anyway:D:D

Rikand

josie19 wrote: »

Bet he finished poorly because of the change

Well i dont think he deliberately slowed down. He just got a bit tight and as a result he slowed down. That can happen to anyone. Its the people who are slow right from the start that are the real problem with this game.

Rikand

denisoc16 wrote: »

I played in the society with Dealerz & Reganovski & as he says it was around the 4hour 15 minute mark. We weren't racing or anything but we kept a good pace. Over 5 hours in a 2 ball with or without a buggy is madness if you ask me. I've played in scratch cups on links courses in fourballs that haven't taken as long as that

4 hours 15 around Esker is good. Reason being all the hills that you have to traverse and there are a lot of long walks in between tees

Rikand

denisoc16 wrote: »

Wasn't me anyway:D:D

true, you were just slow because you were awful!

John Divney

Slicemeister wrote: »

Any golf club trying to implement this strategy would lose my custom asap.

Just saying carry bags are quicker, young fit people with no back problems would be happier with them and quicker too, especially in the winter.

josie19

John Divney wrote: »

Just saying carry bags are quicker, young fit people with no back problems would be happier with them and quicker too, especially in the winter.

I carry in winter to avoid the long walks around roped off greens and speed up play but I have to admit I revert back to battery trolley in summer. I'm not as young as I look

Slicemeister

John Divney wrote: »

Just saying carry bags are quicker, young fit people with no back problems would be happier with them and quicker too, especially in the winter.

Yeah definitely. I used one for the first time this winter -Bought it for the slow wet conditions as opposed to trying to speed up my own game and loved being able to traverse courses unhindered by obstructions.

Brought back old back troubles though.

John Divney

josie19 wrote: »

I carry in winter to avoid the long walks around roped off greens and speed up play but I have to admit I revert back to battery trolley in summer. I'm not as young as I look

I can't talk I've been known to get the buggy round in summer to jam in 18 in the evening.

Rikand

Btw, I'm not trying to say I'm some super fast player either, I'm not. I do take my time addressing the ball, but i don't take any practice swings and i walk quickly between shots. That's more than half the battle in this game imo

John Divney

Slicemeister wrote: »

Yeah definitely. I used one for the first time this winter -Bought it for the slow wet conditions as opposed to trying to speed up my own game and loved being able to traverse courses unhindered by obstructions.

Brought back old back troubles though.

Yeah the freedom, especially on links, is great.

If you've ever wandered into long grass, by some miracle found your ball, legged it back to your cart bag on the fairway, and lost the ball again, you don't get over that for a few holes

DuckSlice

Rikand wrote: »

As a 4ball and first out in portumna we were around in 4h 30 minutes. Would have been a bit quicker, but one of the lads in our group was going well and so he slowed down his routine massively

I played portumna last week with work, it was a three ball scrble but still took us 4 hours, didn't hold anyone up and kept up with group ahead. It's a long course tho so I think 4 and half isn't far off what a 4ball should be doing. My god told me I walked 6.8 miles, normally only 5 for a round!

TrapperChamonix

http://youtu.be/jpUK47pnTMA

Agree with all the points above. I hate slow play and (as a bad golfer myself) I particularly hate slow play from bad golfers!

The clubs could do more. Agree with signs proposing ready golf, I also think they could do more in terms of shorter tees. Three sets of tee boxes on every hole. Average handicap <9 in your group play the back tees, 9-18 play the middle, >18 play the front. Obviously not in competition but for social golfers just having a round with friends. And they should TELL people to do this.

Slicemeister

John Divney wrote: »

Yeah the freedom, especially on links, is great.

If you've ever wandered into long grass, by some miracle found your ball, legged it back to your cart bag on the fairway, and lost the ball again, you don't get over that for a few holes

I wear a cap for that scenario:)

charlieIRL

josie19 wrote: »

You were playing slow if you weren't held up - no defence for that time

We weren't playing slow - we were right behind the group in front of us all the way through the round.

Russman

Deleted User wrote: »

Agree with all the points above. I hate slow play and (as a bad golfer myself) I particularly hate slow play from bad golfers!

The clubs could do more. Agree with signs proposing ready golf, I also think they could do more in terms of shorter tees. Three sets of tee boxes on every hole. Average handicap <9 in your group play the back tees, 9-18 play the middle, >18 play the front. Obviously not in competition but for social golfers just having a round with friends. And they should TELL people to do this.

Agree, but unfortunately in today's world people don't like being "told" what to do.

josie19

charlieIRL wrote: »

That round in Esker wasn't our fault as Rikand said. Just out of curosity - how long did it take the first groups to go around??

Just thinking of Portumna as well, our round was fairly long there too and I don't think any of us were playing slow and we weren't held up and it was still well over 5 hours. Only delay was on the 18th when i had to run back to the 17th green for my skycaddie.

When I'm planing on playing a round I have always allowed 3.5 hours and more for a 4 ball.

charlieIRL wrote: »

We weren't playing slow - we were right behind the group in front of us all the way through the round.

I think you protest too much. You weren't held up by the group in front and you took over 5 hours.

I think that is slow and the group in front were clearly slow. Very hard to admit to taking 5 hours with no hold ups and say none of ye were slow.

gymman39

Im a member in esker hills and the guys i play with can go round esker in 3 hrs 15 mins easily but when the course is packed it can take way longer and thats the same for every course in the country.
I played in a fourball in Knightsbrook last saturday and we were booked in for 1.40 and didnt start until 2.10 as there was a jam at the 1st when we arrived and didnt finish until 7.10 as it was slow all the way around so it was a long day but the company was good and the ranger on duty was a lovely man so we had a great day on a course i never played before.
I know everyones time is precious these days but when making a journey to play golf especially at the weekends you really need to allow for it as no one is a pro that can hit it straight every time

GreeBo

josie19 wrote: »

I think you protest too much. You weren't held up by the group in front and you took over 5 hours.

I think that is slow and the group in front were clearly slow. Very hard to admit to taking 5 hours with no hold ups and say none of ye were slow.

I would agree, just because you were up close to the group in front doesnt mean you are not slow.
I hate when people slow down just because the group in front is slow, you should continue to play at the "correct" pace, putting pressure on the group in front to either speed up or let you through, for the sake of everyone behind you. (not saying you dont do this Charlie!)

I played 2 weeks ago and the group in front lost 3 holes and still strolled around, ambling off greens. If I lose a hole I make a concerted effort to get back into position, then you have little to no impact on the guys who have yet to even start. Nothing worse than arriving to be told the sheet is half an hour behind.

GreeBo

denisoc16 wrote: »

I played in the society with Dealerz & Reganovski & as he says it was around the 4hour 15 minute mark. We weren't racing or anything but we kept a good pace. Over 5 hours in a 2 ball with or without a buggy is madness if you ask me. I've played in scratch cups on links courses in fourballs that haven't taken as long as that

It was madness, but like I said we were still well ahead of the members (2 youngish lads) behind us.

Part of the problem was the insistence to stick to the track in the buggy; on a course like that it means loads of walking across the fairway to your ball with a handful of clubs and then trying to figure out yardages and lines. Also finding a ball in the rough is much harder when you cant just go straight to the line you took.

PARlance

Personally I think sending Societies out in 4 balls is a no no.
Even if there are members out ahead in 4 balls. The societies are always going to be slower and a Soc 3 ball would be a better match.
If the 3 ball is held up a bit then so be it, if the fourball of members ahead are ticking along then it shouldn't be longer than 4:30 at worst.
They would probably pick up their pace if they had someone behind them too.

Adding a 4th ball to a society is just increasing the lost ball searches etc that you just wouldn't get from members.

josie19

PARlance wrote: »

Personally I think sending Societies out in 4 balls is a no no.
Even if there are members out ahead in 4 balls. The societies are always going to be slower and a Soc 3 ball would be a better match.
If the 3 ball is held up a bit then so be it, if the fourball of members ahead are ticking along then it shouldn't be longer than 4:30 at worst.
They would probably pick up their pace if they had someone behind them too.

Adding a 4th ball to a society is just increasing the lost ball searches etc that you just wouldn't get from members.

I played in a society in work for 1 season. 5 hours for 3-balls. Gave that up :mad:

Loire

I wonder, and this probably is a crazy suggestion, but for the run of the mill, weekly, stableford competitions, should a circle about 18 inches in diameter be drawn around the hole. Inside this and you just pickup?

bustercherry

So now it's societies causing slow play? Last week it was range finders.... Next thing you'll all be blaming the Brits.

bustercherry

Loire wrote: »

I wonder, and this probably is a crazy suggestion, but for the run of the mill, weekly, stableford competitions, should a circle about 18 inches in diameter be drawn around the hole. Inside this and you just pickup?

No

Miley Byrne

GreeBo wrote: »

It was madness, but like I said we were still well ahead of the members (2 youngish lads) behind us.

Part of the problem was the insistence to stick to the track in the buggy; on a course like that it means loads of walking across the fairway to your ball with a handful of clubs and then trying to figure out yardages and lines. Also finding a ball in the rough is much harder when you cant just go straight to the line you took.

Slightly off topic but......Two reasons I personally don't like using buggies at any time in this country but especially in winter time

1. Having to stay on the cart path is a pain.

2. Impossible to warm up on a cold day.

Russman

bustercherry wrote: »

So now it's societies causing slow play? Last week it was range finders.... Next thing you'll all be blaming the Brits.

There's an English lad plays with our society, and he has a rangefinder too......that must be it.

FixdePitchmark

A bit radical.

But I don't think there should be any 4 balls in golf.

Dealerz

bustercherry wrote: »

So now it's societies causing slow play? Last week it was range finders.... Next thing you'll all be blaming the Brits.

Eh I think you will find that it's the Romans fault, what have they ever done for us?