We Need To Talk About Slow Play

GreeBo

Rikand wrote: »

Is this really how society has moved on, where we no longer respect our elders ?

sure just farm them out to Friday or maybe a pitch and putt course where they wont be in the way. You know, maybe its about time they just brought in mandatory euthanasia for anyone over 60, that'd sort them out!

What exactly is wrong with playing in the same competition but on a Friday instead of primetime on a Saturday?

Seve OB

GreeBo wrote: »

What exactly is wrong with playing in the same competition but on a Friday instead of primetime on a Saturday?

i don't think its fair for starters. conditions for example, though in this country i do realise conditions can change dramatically in space of a few hours, but in general, if it's a wet day... its a wet day. the day before or after could be a scorcher.

SEORG

I don't think you can tell full members that they can only play on a certain day/time if a competition is on over a few days.
If you accept their entry fee they should be allowed play whenever they want on the competition time sheet.
Can't imagine the senior members being to happy about it. Who detemines who is moved to the end of the timesheet?

FixdePitchmark

Yes - I think we need to distinguish between slow play and somebody who is

A beginner
Old
Or disabled.

Yes it is a delicate situation - but if all members were aware of rules about allowing a group through
And rules about older members - it could be handled , by a skill full enough individual.

bustercherry

Played in the first group on Sat with guys that play regularly at that time every week. I now fully understand why the pace of play in our place is always slow but even more ridiculous was we let a 2 ball through and the next group still finished over 2 holes behind.

josie19

bustercherry wrote: »

Played in the first group on Sat with guys that play regularly at that time every week. I now fully understand why the pace of play in our place is always slow but even more ridiculous was we let a 2 ball through and the next group still finished over 2 holes behind.

Who put the flag in?

GreeBo

stevieob wrote: »

i don't think its fair for starters. conditions for example, though in this country i do realise conditions can change dramatically in space of a few hours, but in general, if it's a wet day... its a wet day. the day before or after could be a scorcher.

That's already the situation today, to allow anyone who wants to play to get out, this time of year there aren't enough hours in the day.

SEORG wrote: »

I don't think you can tell full members that they can only play on a certain day/time if a competition is on over a few days.
If you accept their entry fee they should be allowed play whenever they want on the competition time sheet.
Can't imagine the senior members being to happy about it. Who detemines who is moved to the end of the timesheet?

slow people are moved as they are impacting all the other members, which is grossly unfair

bustercherry

josie19 wrote: »

Who put the flag in?

Me, the other guys needed to start their pre shot routines for the next tee box or we would still be playing

Russman

GreeBo wrote: »

slow people are moved as they are impacting all the other members, which is grossly unfair

True, but its a fine line between being perceived as suiting the "fast" players and keeping everything moving. Moving people on a timesheet unilaterally could lead to all sorts of accusations of discrimination and favouritism. You can hear it now in the clubhouse ".......Joe moved my group to the end of the timesheet because he says we're slow, and that f--ker was out for 4 hours himself with that other slow f--ker Larry..."
Followed by ".....the timesheet was full and I bet he just wanted to get out in our slot...."
Followed by "......don't think I'll rejoin next year, I'll go to XXXX golf club, they don't discriminate....."

I'm all for fast play, it's mostly why I play in the first 3 or 4 groups out in the mornings, but you also have to bear in mind the age profile of the majority of members. Big difference between someone who won't play briskly and can't play briskly.

As I say, I'm all for fast play, and we're regularly around in under 3 hours, but I'd never expect to do that pace teeing off at 11am. Now, maybe in the bigger picture its wrong that golf has evolved to that, but I'm not sure adjusting timesheets is the answer tbh.

Perhaps clubs, either with or without the GUI, could have one or two presentation/discussion nights to explain the issues.
Even allowing for the old and slow movers, an awful lot of the problem (and its a huge problem) could be partially solved through showing guys what they're doing wrong, like leaving bags the wrong side of greens, not being ready to play, juniors following the example of TV golfers etc. i.e. the simple things.

BraveDonut

We lost 1 of our 4-ball yesterday on the first hole yesterday - he had a back issue and had to go in.
So, pace of play for our now 3-ball was not issue.

Just as well - we played with a new member (older guy) who was INCREDIBLY slow.

On the 17th we were commenting on how the group behind us had fallen 2 holes behind.

Just for fun, I decided to engage our new member in a general conversation about slow play. I had a little laugh to myself as he regaled me about how bad the problem was and all of the things that he thinks should be done to stamp it out!.

As I said before - most people have absolutely no idea that they are slow!

Corkblowin

stevieob wrote: »

report him to club official... should be spoken to in an official capacity if he is always acting the maggot like that

But the problem is he wasn't acting the maggot! The club knows him and if you met the guy you'd understand - he just does everything slow. He's probably only after getting home from the course he drives so slowly!!:pac:

Russman

BraveDonut wrote: »

As I said before - most people have absolutely no idea that they are slow!

100% and that's IMO the biggest element of the problem. Not the only one in fairness, but the biggest.

Oilbeefhooked!

BraveDonut wrote: »

As I said before - most people have absolutely no idea that they are slow!

Totally agree, and also made this point earlier in the thread.
Dont think it can be repeated enough that this is the absolute
Crux of the problem!!
i would estimate maybe 1% of slow players would admit/accept
that they take too long to be ready and execute there golf shot, instead always finding an excuse to blame someone/thing else for there slow rounds.

Like you every slow player ive ever played with , is more than ready to
initiate or join in a discussion and lament the slow play problem.
While being totally oblivious to theyre contributions.

Any initiative by the clubs or the powers the be to deal with slow play,has to
be focused on a way to raise awareness to each individual golfer
of how their own pace of play is, and whether its within the acceptable time frame!
Be it clocks on every tee box, or electronic systems like greeni or some type buzzer that goes of when you fall behind.

Dont really know the answers, but i do know, things will never change if the culprits are oblivious to the fact that they are the root cause of the problem,

shane 007

GreeBo wrote: »

By the 8th, they were just leaving the tee as we walked onto it. No sign of being let through even though the ladies behind us were hitting onto the green we had just left and out of the group holding us up 3 of them had hit the ball less than 100m off the tee. 2 of which resulted in lost balls. We were finally let through and made up the now 3 empty holes in front by the 10th.

Nothing worse than that. You've teed off & played the full hole in the same time it takes for them to just tee off.
Crippling!
Had it happen to me recently in the Smurfit Course, when we were teeing there was a group waiting on the next tee still waiting for the slow group to finish teeing. All their shots went everywhere except in front of them.

Osgoodisgood

BraveDonut wrote: »

As I said before - most people have absolutely no idea that they are slow!

Completely agree.
Illusory Superiority is what it's called by the boffins or just plain old Above Average Effect. It's where people delude themselves by cognitive bias that they are much better, stronger, sexier or whatever by comparison to most. The best stat usually comes up in people's opinion on their driving (vehicle not Callaway) ability where most surveys have about 75% of people claiming to be much better than average and usually less than 5% of people putting themselves in the bottom 25 percentile. I'm convinced the same applies to speed of play on the golf course. Most people claim to be able to get around in 3.30 without being dragged down by the turtles but when you speak to the turtles they say the same thing.

Rikand

GreeBo wrote: »

What exactly is wrong with playing in the same competition but on a Friday instead of primetime on a Saturday?

They've probably played in the same timeslot for the last 50 years. Why should they move when you've only been at the club a wet week ?

PARlance

Rikand wrote: »

They've probably played in the same timeslot for the last 50 years. Why should they move when you've only been at the club a wet week ?

We need to respect our elders, I agree, but complaining about slow play from one isn't being disrespectful IMO. Someone taking 5 hours to complete a round should respect the 20,30,40 fellow members stuck behind.

I for one would hope that I wouldn't dream of doing such a thing, when/if I get to that stage, I think I would switch to playing at off peak times out of respect for the younger lads/everyone else... The lifeblood of the club for the next 30,40 years.
(Blue) Rinse and repeat

John Divney

Doesn't matter if they built the course with their bare hands, they either let every group through and enjoy their Saturday golf, or find a more suitable slot.

Why should their status as long time members mean anything over a member who joined yesterday, let alone the R&A guidlines.

Some older golfer just don't give a flying one and NEVER let young lads through

FixdePitchmark

There is a lad at our club playing over 80 years of age. Sound lad asked him to play with me and he played a few holes and headed in, there is this other bollix about 65 hits 4 balls all over the shop, no sand bag or divots replaced, jumps in front of you and won't let you through.

So - hard to make hard and fast rules, most older gents let you through - but again , there are certain situations that , you can't be up someone's hole.

It is hard to generalise , because there are younger lads who are slow and stubborn little bollixes when it comes to letting somebody through.

PARlance

Just for clarity, I wasn't generalising. Greebo mentioned an older gent that physically can't keep up with the pace of play.

I was only referring to him as opposed to older memebers in general. I have played with plenty and (in general) I don't think a 60 something is any slower than a 30 something. The older, the wiser, less power maybe, less chance of a few wild ones.

kieran.

GreeBo wrote: »

What exactly is wrong with playing in the same competition but on a Friday instead of primetime on a Saturday?

The tone of this whole thread is whats wrong with most clubs these days lack of respect for fellow club members. The 3:30 4 ball members need to realise that their pace is just not most other members pace of play. There are so many variables on the course at any one time skill,age general conditions etc these make all this talk of putting pressure purposely on the group infront distasteful in my opinion. If your pace is 3:30 and the group ahead is 4:15 im afraid your just going to have to deal with for 18 holes.

If slow players respect the group behind and play at a 'reasonable' pace of play and fast players respect the fact the group in front is also entitled to their place on the course everyone should leave reasonably happy. At the end of the day golf is a hobby for most not to many members are golf nuts like most on here.

The very idea that some people think they have a God given right to play a'quick' round during "primetime" on a Saturday is ludicrous. If you need that I recommend you play outside 'primetime' and respect its primetime for most other people too.

Golf is a game of patience. Patience with your own game also your fellow members.

SnowDrifts

Is the priority on the course section of the rules the only one you ignore kieran or do you play with more made up rules?

I'll post it for clarity.

"Priority On The Course
Unless otherwise determined by the Committee, priority on the course is determined by a group’s pace of play. Any group playing a whole round is entitled to pass a group playing a shorter round. The term “group” includes a single player.

It is a group’s responsibility to keep up with the group in front. If it loses a clear hole and it is delaying the group behind, it should invite the group behind to play through, irrespective of the number of players in that group. Where a group has not lost a clear hole, but it is apparent that the group behind can play faster, it should invite the faster moving group to play through."

PARlance

kieran. wrote: »

Golf is a game of patience. Patience with your own game also your fellow members.

Sorry Kieran, but golf is a games of rules and etiquette as per Snow Drift's post.
If you follow them, as you should, then the groups behind require a lot less patience.

This thread is about ideas to help people adhere to the rules, but they aren't worth a damn if you get stuck behind the biggest cause of slow play... The "sure we're not that slow are we" group.

If the pace of play is 4:15 and there's no gaps up ahead then fair enough, the lads behind need to suck it up.
But your post doesn't state that and suggests that going at a "reasonable pace" is good enough.
That's very unreasonable if you ask me.

bustercherry

SnowDrifts wrote: »

Is the priority on the course section of the rules the only one you ignore kieran or do you play with more made up rules?

I'll post it for clarity.

"Priority On The Course
Unless otherwise determined by the Committee, priority on the course is determined by a group’s pace of play. Any group playing a whole round is entitled to pass a group playing a shorter round. The term “group” includes a single player.

It is a group’s responsibility to keep up with the group in front. If it loses a clear hole and it is delaying the group behind, it should invite the group behind to play through, irrespective of the number of players in that group. Where a group has not lost a clear hole, but it is apparent that the group behind can play faster, it should invite the faster moving group to play through."

I didn't know there was an actual rule? I thought it was guideline set out under the etiquette section.

SnowDrifts

bustercherry wrote: »

I didn't know there was an actual rule? I thought it was guideline set out under the etiquette section.

Correct, you are not going to get stroke penalties for ignoring something from the etiquette section.

It's what you should do and are requested to do. It's about doing what's equitable.

bustercherry

SnowDrifts wrote: »

Correct, you are not going to get stroke penalties for ignoring something from the etiquette section.

It's what you should do and are requested to do. It's about doing what's equitable.

So you question another posters integrity over ignoring rules, making them up etc... but in turn have just done the very same thing

SnowDrifts

No bustercherry - I challenged him about something stated in the rules of golf and the provided a direct quote. To suggest I made something up is just silly and is looking for something that is not there. You are obviously easily confused judging by your flagstick theories so best for me to leave you to it rather that going back and forth.

bustercherry

SnowDrifts wrote: »

No bustercherry - I challenged him about something stated in the rules of golf and the provided a direct quote. To suggest I made something up is just silly and is looking for something that is not there. You are obviously easily confused judging by your flagstick theories so best for me to leave you to it rather that going back and forth.

So it is now a rule?

John Divney

bustercherry wrote: »

So it is now a rule?

It can be sanctioned by the committee under rule 33-7, so unless you get into a philosophical debate, it's a quasi-rule that can be sanctioned, and is far from a simple guideline,

Golfgraffix

Russman wrote: »

Perhaps clubs, either with or without the GUI, could have one or two presentation/discussion nights to explain the issues..

The Leinster branch held a discussion night at Carton a few weeks ago, where John Mc Cormack the GM of The Castle gave a very good presentation of their policy on slow play. There was a hand out, I will check and see if it is available somewhere, it was very good reading and IMO was a great template for other clubs to follow.

J

GreeBo

Russman wrote: »

True, but its a fine line between being perceived as suiting the "fast" players and keeping everything moving. Moving people on a timesheet unilaterally could lead to all sorts of accusations of discrimination and favouritism. You can hear it now in the clubhouse ".......Joe moved my group to the end of the timesheet because he says we're slow, and that f--ker was out for 4 hours himself with that other slow f--ker Larry..."
Followed by ".....the timesheet was full and I bet he just wanted to get out in our slot...."
Followed by "......don't think I'll rejoin next year, I'll go to XXXX golf club, they don't discriminate....."

Its not random, unilateral or done by other members, its monitored, letters are written and the comp committee tells you when you can play. Its purely about keeping the timesheet moving.

Russman wrote: »

I'm all for fast play, it's mostly why I play in the first 3 or 4 groups out in the mornings, but you also have to bear in mind the age profile of the majority of members. Big difference between someone who won't play briskly and can't play briskly.

While the reasons my vary, the effect does not. You arrive at 1pm to play and are told there is a 45 min delay. I dont care why that is, I just want it stopped.

Russman wrote: »

As I say, I'm all for fast play, and we're regularly around in under 3 hours, but I'd never expect to do that pace teeing off at 11am. Now, maybe in the bigger picture its wrong that golf has evolved to that, but I'm not sure adjusting timesheets is the answer tbh.

And therein lies the problem, sure its going to be a bit slower later in the day, but it shouldnt be an hour slower.

GreeBo

Rikand wrote: »

They've probably played in the same timeslot for the last 50 years. Why should they move when you've only been at the club a wet week ?

And?
Also, not that it has any relevance to pace of play, I've been a member for over 20 years. Please let me know how much more time I need to be allowed do whatever I want and ignore other members?

kieran. wrote: »

The tone of this whole thread is whats wrong with most clubs these days lack of respect for fellow club members. The 3:30 4 ball members need to realise that their pace is just not most other members pace of play. There are so many variables on the course at any one time skill,age general conditions etc these make all this talk of putting pressure purposely on the group infront distasteful in my opinion. If your pace is 3:30 and the group ahead is 4:15 im afraid your just going to have to deal with for 18 holes.

If slow players respect the group behind and play at a 'reasonable' pace of play and fast players respect the fact the group in front is also entitled to their place on the course everyone should leave reasonably happy. At the end of the day golf is a hobby for most not to many members are golf nuts like most on here.

The very idea that some people think they have a God given right to play a'quick' round during "primetime" on a Saturday is ludicrous. If you need that I recommend you play outside 'primetime' and respect its primetime for most other people too.

Golf is a game of patience. Patience with your own game also your fellow members.

The committe set the expected pace of play for the course, no one else. They do this based on the course layout and the expected throughput on the timesheet. After that it comes down to playing faster than that and being let through. Slower players are at the mercy of everyone else, there is nothing in there to allow for slow players.

SEORG

GreeBo wrote: »

The committe set the expected pace of play for the course, no one else. They do this based on the course layout and the expected throughput on the timesheet. After that it comes down to playing faster than that and being let through. Slower players are at the mercy of everyone else, there is nothing in there to allow for slow players.

Is the time of a round recorded for all competitions?

GreeBo

SEORG wrote: »

Is the time of a round recorded for all competitions?

You are supposed to write your actual start and end time on the card, also, you are being "watched" to determine if you are slow, persistent offenders will be written to.

kieran.

SnowDrifts wrote: »

"Priority On The Course
Unless otherwise determined by the Committee, priority on the course is determined by a group’s pace of play. Any group playing a whole round is entitled to pass a group playing a shorter round. The term “group” includes a single player.

"

I dont take kindly to your childish attitute of accusing me of playing with 'made up rules' I was simply adding to the debate with my opinion. I think you'll find that 'priorty on the course' is a guideline in the in the ethique section of the R&A handbook not a 'rule' per say. While it may be enforceable if deemed of a serious breach of etiquette, I dont think you will find too many Committees which will disqualify a player under Rule 33-7.

I think the RULE you are referring to is 6-7. Undue Delay; Slow Play.
"The player must play without undue delay and in accordance with any pace
of play guidelines that the Committee may establish. Between completion of
a hole and playing from the next teeing ground, the player must not unduly delay play."

THE R&A itself has said in relatation to this rule; "Ultimately, each Committee must establish what it considers to be reasonable parameters in defining undue delay, taking into account the difficulty of the golf course, weather conditions and the quality of the field.To offer more specific guidance to the Committee is probably not realistic." Without these parameters clearly defined this rule is also very unlikely to be enforced by any committee.

I think the most of the question of 'slow play' is relative to which side of the pace fence you sit on. In my opinion individual clubs should set guideline targets for relative points on the course. A reasonable pace of play should be determined by the club, adhered to by the the members and enforced by the ranger.

In my previous post I was referering to playing in 'primetime' on a Saturday/Sunday were generally the course is full 4 balls. (from my experience outside of this time members ethique is generally acceptable). Indeed a 4 ball should alway call a 3/2 ball at the earliest convienent point if there is space on the the course to accomadate them. For me personally slow play is does not effect me as I play a regular 4 ball on a Saturday morning and our round usually takes between 3:45-4:15 which I would deem a reasonable pace of play. If this was taking 5 hours week in week out perhaps my attitude would change.

HB2002

I have to say I hate slow play too.....
At the weekend we were held up and held up people behind us on every hole.... the three ball ahead of the two who were playing in front of us had lost three holes on the gang in front of them!!!!.... it was murder and it ends up having an effect on your own round.... you get worried about the crowd behind you.. you get pee'd off waiting over your shot and duff it...

If you lose a hole on the crowd in front of you them it's up to you as a group to close that gap..... how you do it is up to you but for everyone else on the course it's your duty to play just behind the group in front of you.

There are so many simpple things you can do that will speed up your round without making you feel as you've had to rush around and not enjoyed it.

I don't agree with playing out of turn.... mostly because 'The Honour' is always something to try and win .

I also think everyone has their pre shot routine and should stick to it because it can be an important part of your game... but you have to be realistic with your routine too!

One thing mentioned in earlier post was how when it comes to club competitions Bruen Purcell and the like that it's more acceptable to take more time over putts and shots and it's somehting that I try to bring to my weekend game now too... reading the putt from more than one side for starters... but you can do this and do it when other players are playing their shots or lining up there putts.

Someone earlier said they sometimes take their shot as their partners shot is in the air.... there's no need to do that in fairness... and it's not something I would be happy to have happen in my three ball.

I suppose I'm trying to say that you can speed up your round of golf to an accpetable pace without taking from the enjoyment or the competitiveness of the game.

1. Decide what club you are going to hit as soon as you can but do watch your partners ball when they play
2. Walk and talk to your next shot but don't take an age
3. Leave your golf clubs in the proper place around the green
4. Mark your scorecard after you have taken your shot if you have the honour and beforehand if you don't.
5. Take note of other players putts to help your reading of your putt
6. If you've lost ground on the gang in front just speed up getting to your ball.

doesn't take much to knock 20 minutes off a round....

PARlance

PARlance wrote: »

Just for clarity, I wasn't generalising. Greebo mentioned an older gent that physically can't keep up with the pace of play.

I was only referring to him as opposed to older memebers in general. I have played with plenty and (in general) I don't think a 60 something is any slower than a 30 something. The older, the wiser, less power maybe, less chance of a few wild ones.

My father-in-law is over 70 and possibly the fastest golfer I've every played with. He isn't the fastest moving man in the world but he walks up to the ball and hits it. In a straight line.

He knows his place on the course and makes sure he keeps it, and he doesn't tolerate any messing around. So there's no reason why the old folk should get a pass. It's a question of attitude.

alxmorgan

HB2002 wrote: »

I don't agree with playing out of turn.... mostly because 'The Honour' is always something to try and win .

Is it really much of an honour though ? So you've won it - just let whoever is ready hit away safe in the knowledge that everyone knows you won it.

Waiting on correct order of play adds quite a bit to slow play IMHO - ready golf is the way to go.

bustercherry

Do any of you lads actually enjoy playing golf? Casual rounds at less busy times maybe but competition times at the weekend?

Seems like most of the people posting, on this thread in particular, go out of their way to have the round ruined by every little thing wrong with the game. If the same posters put as much effort into practice as they do complaining, they'd be off scratch

Slow play is a pain but not going away until the governing bodies do something more radical than telling people where to leave their bags. I wouldn't see the point in playing if it was winding me up that much.

FixdePitchmark

HB2002

Most of the stuff you say makes sense.

But I think you will find it hard to convince, that how people play in any Bruen or Purcell match is what they should bring to weekend.

Also watching other putts. This should only be if unavoidable. As in be at your own ball if possible just watching pace.

You need to be ready to take putt as soon as possible.

Watching other shots yes good form. But have club out ready to play.
many people have this sequences they can not start till other ball has landed.

alxmorgan

bustercherry wrote: »

Do any of you lads actually enjoy playing golf? Casual rounds at less busy times maybe but competition times at the weekend?

Seems like most of the people posting, on this thread in particular, go out of their way to have the round ruined by every little thing wrong with the game. If the same posters put as much effort into practice as they do complaining, they'd be off scratch

Slow play is a pain but not going away until the governing bodies do something more radical than telling people where to leave their bags. I wouldn't see the point in playing if it was winding me up that much.

I love golf. Hit it, find it, hit it again.

Not wait, hit it, find it, wait, hit it again

FixdePitchmark

alxmorgan wrote: »

I love golf. Hit it, find it, hit it again.

Not wait, hit it, find it, wait, hit it again

I like it unless standing around for more then 2 or 3 minutes.

I think there are people here and have spoken to. Who hate slow golf. Will actually head in.

I think some people who that are very slow don't care about other golfers.
Some in fact take pride in this.

Again anything over 4 hours. We are just making excuses.
If your round is over 4 hours and your doing 360 walks around putts . Then you need to look at yourself first.

If you can do all the stuff some are mentioning here and your group is still sub 4 . All power to you.

But, I think slow actions are contagious.

alxmorgan

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I like it unless standing around for more then 2 or 3 minutes.

I think there are people here and have spoken to. Who hate slow golf. Will actually head in.

I think some people who are are very don't care about other golfers.
Some in fact take pride in this.

I have a young family at home and it is hard as it is to leave them for 5 hours (4 hour game + 1 hour travel). I am not asking for speed golf. 4 hours for a 4 ball in normal circumstances isn't too much to ask IMHO.

slingerz

unless it is unduly slow i dont see any problem really. Only was i held up by a group ahead which included 1 gentleman over 75 and another over 70. They were refused access to a buggy due to the course condition and had to walk with a cart. Obviously, as the round went on they became slower but i would not begrudge this group their time as I could tell they were playing as fast as phyiscally possible for them and not taking undue time reading greens, putts etc.

SnowDrifts

kieran. wrote: »

I dont take kindly to your childish attitute of accusing me of playing with 'made up rules' I was simply adding to the debate with my opinion. I think you'll find that 'priorty on the course' is a guideline in the in the ethique section of the R&A handbook not a 'rule' per say. While it may be enforceable if deemed of a serious breach of etiquette, I dont think you will find too many Committees which will disqualify a player under Rule 33-7.

I think the RULE you are referring to is 6-7. Undue Delay; Slow Play.

No it was not the section I was referring to. I stated "the priority on the course section of the rules". As I have already said, you are not going to get stroke penalties for ignoring something from the etiquette section - It's what you should do and are requested to do. It's about doing what's equitable.

You are advocating ignoring this section and you say faster players "just have to deal with" (as quoted below). This is what I have an issue with. It's when more people adopt this attitude that problems result.

Thankfully, I rarely come across this "they will just have to deal with it" mentality in my club. Equitable players do not choose to ignore the etiquette section just because it is not binding and merely what you should do.

kieran. wrote: »

The tone of this whole thread is whats wrong with most clubs these days lack of respect for fellow club members. The 3:30 4 ball members need to realise that their pace is just not most other members pace of play. If your pace is 3:30 and the group ahead is 4:15 im afraid your just going to have to deal with for 18 holes.

...and fast players respect the fact the group in front is also entitled to their place on the course everyone should leave reasonably happy. At the end of the day golf is a hobby for most not to many members are golf nuts like most on here.

FixdePitchmark

[QUOTE=slingerz;89837328 unless it is unduly slow i dont see any problem really. Only was i held up by a group ahead which included 1 gentleman over 75 and another over 70. They were refused access to a buggy due to the course condition and had to walk with a cart. Obviously, as the round went on they became slower but i would not begrudge this group their time as I could tell they were playing as fast as phyiscally possible for them and not taking undue time reading greens, putts etc.[/QUOTE]

It is open to debate (heated). But some would say if the buggy couldn't go they couldn't.
As harsh as that is. I'm not not a fan.

But in other cultures this would be the way.

Did they lose a hole and let you through ?

HB2002

alxmorgan wrote: »

Is it really much of an honour though ? .

In fairness no it's not that big of a deal but it can be a target you set yourself..... I know what you mean about it speeding up play but I'd be more inclined to speed up the player who should be up.... maybe taking his honour would have the same effect actually!

PARlance

30 mins stuck in traffic this morning (after my round) was annoying

Golf, fed, watered, washed all in the AM is some joy.
For all the giving out we do, there are a lot of lads out there that know what to do.
We were a 2 ball that teed off a hole and a bit behind a fourball. Straight through without a single hold up.

HB2002

"But I think you will find it hard to convince, that how people play in any Bruen or Purcell match is what they should bring to weekend. "

I just find myself that when I'm playing a match for the club I'm so much more focused then I am when I'm playing weekend comp.... it's quite possibly just me but it's a failing I try to solve but never seem to get quite tuned in the same way as I do for matches

"Also watching other putts. This should only be if unavoidable. As in be at your own ball if possible just watching pace. "

Disagree with you there... by all means have your own putt read as much as possible but to not watch your partners putt is a huge opporunity for you to see the breaks gone a begging.

"Watching other shots yes good form. But have club out ready to play.
many people have this sequences they can not start till other ball has landed"

Couldn't agree more... be ready to take your shot have the club out the glove on but you need to help your partners by watching their shot.

alxmorgan

HB2002 wrote: »

In fairness no it's not that big of a deal but it can be a target you set yourself..... I know what you mean about it speeding up play but I'd be more inclined to speed up the player who should be up.... maybe taking his honour would have the same effect actually!

I was just thinking of my round gone Sunday. I had the honour all day (only 2 of us , other 2 were off forward tees) and my playing partner always knows what he hits on every hole regardless. I was less sure so I let him shoot on most of the time while I chose.