"Government is prepared for railway closures"

corktina

Judgement Day wrote: »

Great idea - waste more money getting rid of virtually new rolling stock.

see post 284...the 22Ks are amongst the most fuel efficient in Europe...the class 201s sure as eggs aren't, so it makes sense to switch to 22Ks if possible. We can't afford new haulage for the Mk4s..... saving money, not wasting it, the money was already wasted on them, as we all know!

Judgement Day

corktina wrote: »

see post 284...the 22Ks are amongst the most fuel efficient in Europe...the class 201s sure as eggs aren't, so it makes sense to switch to 22Ks if possible. We can't afford new haulage for the Mk4s..... saving money, not wasting it, the money was already wasted on them, as we all know!

Yes, yes but there's private operators out there who would take the MkIVs and run them in Ireland - given the chance!

corktina

grand ...leave them do it, meanwhile IE have a cash problem and that needs sorting. I don't believe any private operator will want anything more than Cork/Dublin anyway and if you privatise that, you may as well shut the rest and forget it.

man98

About the 6 lines due for closure, Enniscorthy - Rosslare is supposed to be considered (we can safely assume). This is because neither Wexford, Rosslare or Rosslare Harbour have over 100 passengers. According to a newspaper, Wexford station had 97 passengers so that could be rounded up to 100, rendering it safe. Manulla - Ballina, Ballybrophy - Limerick, Limerick Junc. - Waterford and Rosslare - Waterford were earmarked for closure by An Bord Snip in 2009. We can presume these will be closed. Athenry - Ennis (unlikely), Rosslare - Wexford and Killarney - Tralee (I'm not familiar with the railway there) are probably being considered.

corktina

Is that 100 passengers a day or per train?

man98

Julius Seizure wrote: »

This stuff about 6 lines closing is a rumour and a load of nonsense tbh, Waterford/Galway etc aren't going anywhere... Fine loadings, also would be political suicide. Perhaps they mean officially closing lines that are open without service eg Mullingar to Athlone, South Wexford (I think) etc.

Hands off the South Wexford Line... This would be the final straw. The main agreement in the suspension of services was because the line would be maintained. As I have mentioned elsewhere, several companies expressed an interest in serving Enniscorthy - Waterford as IR purposely ran it into the ground. A report said the line could have 6 daily services, it had 1 return service. Being from Wexford, I would like to travel by train to Waterford, but if it had the catchment area of south Wexford alone, ignoring the 30,000 people between Wexford and Enniscorthy, how was it meant to carry more passengers?

The argument that a bus was a better replacement is complete and utter bull. 1:20 was how long it took Rosslare - Waterford by train, it's 1:55 by bus passing through all the villages and then through New Ross. Irish Rail are paying BÉ €250,000 a year for this service. It obviously costs less than 250k to run a train along the line, seeing as they are tied to maintain the line.

Judgement Day

corktina wrote: »

Is that 100 passengers a day or per train?

Of course, the counting of passengers at specified stations is a red herring anyway as by closing the station - unmanned in some cases - will do precisely nothing to reduce costs. If anything, cheaper ways of reopening stations need to be examined and the likes of Avoca on the the Connolly/Rosslare line should be reopened as a priority.

man98

corktina wrote: »

Is that 100 passengers a day or per train?

Per day. Bear in mind this was an off peak day. That's 12 people getting on per train, although I've seen 40 - 50 passengers waiting for the train to Dublin. Yes, I concede that 5 people are usually on the train past Wexford, but maybe if they connected with ships in the port that IE actually own?

Judgement Day

man98 wrote: »

Hands off the South Wexford Line... This would be the final straw. The main agreement in the suspension of services was because the line would be maintained. As I have mentioned elsewhere, several companies expressed an interest in serving Enniscorthy - Waterford as IR purposely ran it into the ground. A report said the line could have 6 daily services, it had 1 return service. Being from Wexford, I would like to travel by train to Waterford, but if it had the catchment area of south Wexford alone, ignoring the 30,000 people between Wexford and Enniscorthy, how was it meant to carry more passengers?

The argument that a bus was a better replacement is complete and utter bull. 1:20 was how long it took Rosslare - Waterford by train, it's 1:55 by bus passing through all the villages and then through New Ross. Irish Rail are paying BÉ €250,000 a year for this service. It obviously costs less than 250k to run a train along the line, seeing as they are tied to maintain the line.

The bus service from the likes of Gorey, Enniscorthy and Wexford to Waterford is dire and if you wish to commute between the aforementioned for work or college, you need to move to Waterford.

end of the road

corktina wrote: »

see post 284...the 22Ks are amongst the most fuel efficient in Europe...the class 201s sure as eggs aren't, so it makes sense to switch to 22Ks if possible. We can't afford new haulage for the Mk4s..... saving money, not wasting it, the money was already wasted on them, as we all know!

the MKIVS are 8 years old, you honestly think storing them after spending the large amount of money that was spent on buying them is "saving money" no, if tax money is spent buying rolling stock then i and many others expect it to be used no excuses, costs isn't an excuse either that should have been thought of before buying them, its tough s//t now IE uses them whether they want to or not

Judgement Day

end of the road wrote: »

the MKIVS are 8 years old, you honestly think storing them after spending the large amount of money that was spent on buying them is "saving money" no, if tax money is spent buying rolling stock then i and many others expect it to be used no excuses, costs isn't an excuse either that should have been thought of before buying them, its tough s//t now IE uses them whether they want to or not

Yep, I'd agree with getting rid of the MkIVs now if every single person in any way involved in their purchase lost their jobs immediately and without redundancy or anything else - fat chance.

man98

Judgement Day wrote: »

Of course, the counting of passengers at specified stations is a red herring anyway as by closing the station - unmanned in some cases - will do precisely nothing to reduce costs. If anything, cheaper ways of reopening stations need to be examined and the likes of Avoca on the the Connolly/Rosslare line should be reopened as a priority.

When you say cut costs, do you mean just a bare platform with a shelter, making the conductor act as station manager? This has been done before on Rosslare - Waterford, with one station manager + gate keeper.

MGWR

man98 wrote: »

About the 6 lines due for closure, Enniscorthy - Rosslare is supposed to be considered (we can safely assume). This is because neither Wexford, Rosslare or Rosslare Harbour have over 100 passengers. According to a newspaper, Wexford station had 97 passengers so that could be rounded up to 100, rendering it safe. Manulla - Ballina, Ballybrophy - Limerick, Limerick Junc. - Waterford and Rosslare - Waterford were earmarked for closure by An Bord Snip in 2009. We can presume these will be closed. Athenry - Ennis (unlikely), Rosslare - Wexford and Killarney - Tralee (I'm not familiar with the railway there) are probably being considered.

Doesn't help things at Rosslare Harbour (sorry, Europort) when you cut the station back from the actual ferry terminal (inducing that unnecessary ten-minute walk) and deliberately discourage ridership by having the train miss the boat (I have not heard that this "foible" was corrected, so if it has, please let me know) . With stopping at all stations south of Dun Laoghaire, the 44-mph average speed is almost miraculous, i.e. if really attained. Four trains a day on weekdays (five to/from Wexford) also does not help.

Judgement Day

Well, for years some commentators on Boards and elsewhere put closing small stations forward as the panacea for cutting losses and speeding up services - I don't agree but what would I know. The same people constantly peddle other anti-rail arguments and won't be happy until there's nothing left but the DART.

end of the road

man98 wrote: »

AEnniscorthy - Rosslare is supposed to be considered (we can safely assume). This is because neither Wexford, Rosslare or Rosslare Harbour have over 100 passengers. According to a newspaper, Wexford station had 97 passengers so that could be rounded up to 100

97 passengers a year or day? probably per day, all though even that is probably only true sometimes, as i use this line and i've seen that amount, a little less, or a bit more boarding the same service, not all the time i'd agree but it happens, the line is doing fine for all the scraps we've gotten and get from the table and the disrespect us passengers have gotten over the years from irish rail

man98 wrote: »

AManulla - Ballina, Ballybrophy - Limerick, Limerick Junc. - Waterford and Rosslare - Waterford were earmarked for closure by An Bord Snip in 2009. We can presume these will be closed. Athenry - Ennis (unlikely)

limerick ballybroaphy will go, limerick junction waterford will also go, and rosslare waterford has gone, removing a potential cross country link, Manulla Ballina has the freight, unless the NTA the transport minister or whoever wants IE to get rid of freight which i believe does make a proffit, i can't see this being allowed to close.

man98 wrote: »

Rosslare - Wexford and Killarney - Tralee (I'm not familiar with the railway there) are probably being considered.

possibly, but those lines are very short and closing them would save nothing but undermine the rest of those lines, tralee could end up losing some of the tourist traffic it gets and the rail link from rosslare port will be completely removed (not that it exists now currently as the bit from the station to the peer has gone) but removing the line to wexford will make sure it can't be reinstated, as once the line closes thats it

man98

MGWR wrote: »

Doesn't help things at Rosslare Harbour (sorry, Europort) when you cut the station back from the actual ferry terminal (inducing that unnecessary ten-minute walk) and deliberately discourage ridership by having the train miss the boat (I have not heard that this "foible" was corrected, so if it has, please let me know) . With stopping at all stations south of Dun Laoghaire, the 44-mph average speed is almost miraculous, i.e. if really attained. Four trains a day on weekdays (five to/from Wexford) also does not help.

In the summer last year, the service Rosslare - Dublin was delayed by XX amount of time to see if more SailRail people would use it. It was a success so they moved it back to its previous time.

Judgement Day wrote: »

Well, for years some commentators on Boards and elsewhere put closing small stations forward as the panacea for cutting losses and speeding up services - I don't agree but what would I know. The same people constantly peddle other anti-rail arguments and won't be happy until there's nothing left but the DART.

The DART is the most irritating thing known to a Wexford person using the train. Red lights mean travel time Bray - Connolly is 45 minutes. My proposal is putting us out of our misery and building a branch line out to the Luas or terminating trains in Bray. I'd love to see a third line built but there is simply no room.

corktina

I didn't read it that anyone was proposing closing stations on an otherwise open line. I think it was being mooted that as the stations south of Wexford contribute less than 100 passengers each, the line itself should be shut.

The money spent on Mk4s is sunk....take them out of service in favour of more efficient stock and it is a saving. That I have said already but it doesn't suit you to accept that.

It has been shown repeatedly by others that it isn't possible to service the ships at Rosslare due to lack of paths further north.

Banjoxed

Judgement Day wrote: »

Well, for years some commentators on Boards and elsewhere put closing small stations forward as the panacea for cutting losses and speeding up services - I don't agree but what would I know. The same people constantly peddle other anti-rail arguments and won't be happy until there's nothing left but the DART.

Sure didn't TCD's Sean Barrett campaign for the Eastern Bypass as a replacement for the DART project? Not even the DART, JD. Nothing.

end of the road

Judgement Day wrote: »

the likes of Avoca on the the Connolly/Rosslare line should be reopened as a priority.

interesting suggestion, i suppose it would mean less of a journey for those in surrounding areas to rathdrum, a station should possibly be considered between fernes and camolin, what you think?

man98

end of the road wrote: »

97 passengers a year or day? probably per day, all though even that is probably only true sometimes, as i use this line and i've seen that amount, a little less, or a bit more boarding the same service, not all the time i'd agree but it happens, the line is doing fine for all the scraps we've gotten and get from the table and the disrespect us passengers have gotten over the years from irish rail

limerick ballybroaphy will go, limerick junction waterford will also go, and rosslare waterford has gone, removing a potential cross country link, Manulla Ballina has the freight, unless the NTA the transport minister or whoever wants IE to get rid of freight which i believe does make a proffit, i can't see this being allowed to close.

possibly, but those lines are very short and closing them would save nothing but undermine the rest of those lines, tralee could end up losing some of the tourist traffic it gets and the rail link from rosslare port will be completely removed (not that it exists now currently as the bit from the station to the peer has gone) but removing the line to wexford will make sure it can't be reinstated, as once the line closes thats it

97 daily passengers in early December 2012. I believe 0.001% of freight in Ireland is rail freight. We're meant to have it at 20% by 2020. Fat chance. Whereabouts do you travel from?

end of the road

Judgement Day wrote: »

Yep, I'd agree with getting rid of the MkIVs now if every single person in any way involved in their purchase lost their jobs immediately and without redundancy or anything else - fat chance.

personally i wouldn't agree for them to be got rid of, but i would agree that those who bought them should be sacked with immediat effect

Judgement Day

end of the road wrote: »

interesting suggestion, i suppose it would mean less of a journey for those in surrounding areas to rathdrum, a station should possibly be considered between fernes and camolin, what you think?

The remains of Ferns station still exists. When the GNR and Co.Donegal operated railcars they made maximum use of them i.e they stopped virtually everywhere on request. CIE/IE have made a virtue out of not doing this and if anything the railcars have none of the flexibility of their ancestors. They stop nowhere, have no capacity for anything other than passengers and have no view out the front like the AEC railcars - don't mention their lack of SDO. Another case, like the MkIV's where I would dismiss anybody involved in their purchase.

end of the road

Judgement Day wrote: »

Well, for years some commentators on Boards and elsewhere put closing small stations forward as the panacea for cutting losses and speeding up services - I don't agree but what would I know. The same people constantly peddle other anti-rail arguments and won't be happy until there's nothing left but the DART.

no no jd they don't want the dart either

Banjoxed

Of course what is completely ignored in the Republic is the success that Translink is now - comprehensive bus services, maintained railway services with real financial commitments to them, that produce plenty of passengers.

But a successful, reasonably well integrated Bus and Rail service owned and operated in the Public Sector doesn't fit the reductive agenda of many in the Republic. CIE isn't that. It could be if the political will was there, but it isn't because it would annoy private interests who would benefit from the destruction of the railways and the buses being a bit crap.

corktina

Judgement Day wrote: »

The remains of Ferns station still exists. When the GNR and Co.Donegal operated railcars they made maximum use of them i.e they stopped virtually everywhere on request. CIE/IE have made a virtue out of not doing this and if anything the railcars have none of the flexibility of their ancestors. They stop nowhere, have no capacity for anything other than passengers and have no view out the front like the AEC railcars - don't mention their lack of SDO. Another case, like the MkIV's where I would dismiss anybody involved in their purchase.

you are making a good argument for Bustitution there JD

Banjoxed

corktina wrote: »

you are making a good argument for Bustitution there JD

You might see that Corktina, I don't.

end of the road

man98 wrote: »

In the summer last year, the service Rosslare - Dublin was delayed by XX amount of time to see if more SailRail people would use it. It was a success so they moved it back to its previous time.


The DART is the most irritating thing known to a Wexford person using the train. Red lights mean travel time Bray - Connolly is 45 minutes. My proposal is putting us out of our misery and building a branch line out to the Luas or terminating trains in Bray. I'd love to see a third line built but there is simply no room.

or when the luas infrastructure needs replacing convert it to heavy rail (more or less reopening the stolen bray harcourt street line) all though as harcourt street can't be used some clever engineering will be needed to connect it to the rest of the rail system in the city (i suppose dart underground could allow this if it is thought of which it won't be)

corktina

Banjoxed wrote: »

Of course what is completely ignored in the Republic is the success that Translink is now - comprehensive bus services, maintained railway services with real financial commitments to them, that produce plenty of passengers.

But a successful, reasonably well integrated Bus and Rail service owned and operated in the Public Sector doesn't fit the reductive agenda of many in the Republic. CIE isn't that. It could be if the political will was there, but it isn't because it would annoy private interests who would benefit from the destruction of the railways and the buses being a bit crap.

It is my belief that the parts of the North served by Rail are much more highly populated than the sheep country that some of the threatened lines serve.

corktina

Banjoxed wrote: »

You might see that Corktina, I don't.

read what he said....flexible transport with a capability to stop anywhere (and a view)...more or less what I suggested earlier for replacing the Mallow Tralee line with buses. I'm not advocating it, just saying that it is an option

Banjoxed

corktina wrote: »

It is my belief that the parts of the North served by Rail are much more highly populated than the sheep country that some of the threatened lines serve.

You haven't seen much of the route of the Derry line then. Bit sparse in places to put it mildly. It is balanced out by the ABC's - Antrim, Ballymena and Coleraine but the areas served by Bellarena and Cullybackey make Gort etc look like Gotham. The Derry line though has high usage and even those wayside stations add a reasonable amount to the traffic.

I'd also add that there is not anymore an existential threat to the railways in Northern Ireland - unlike the Republic, when the DRD actively kicked around closing the Derry line the reaction was an aggressive "Save our railways" campaign spearheaded by the NIR workers and supported strongly in the local media.

Here, there would be hand wringing in the papers from former PR people for Roadstone turned journalists and the CIE folks would be calculating their redundancy.

Judgement Day

corktina wrote: »

It is my belief that the parts of the North served by Rail are much more highly populated than the sheep country that some of the threatened lines serve.

Roscrea population (5.403) Nenagh (7,995), Clonmel(15,793) etc.etc. - just a few examples and ignores the large towns/cities at either end of the lines.

end of the road

corktina wrote: »

I didn't read it that anyone was proposing closing stations on an otherwise open line. I think it was being mooted that as the stations south of Wexford contribute less than 100 passengers each, the line itself should be shut.

traffic isn't static south of wexford though, 1 day and on 1 service you could have a carrige full and other days and other services very few. closing it would achieve nothing, save nothing and would fully remove the link from rosslare port, such vandelism isn't acceptable.

corktina wrote: »

The money spent on Mk4s is sunk....take them out of service in favour of more efficient stock and it is a saving. That I have said already but it doesn't suit you to accept that.

the mkivs are efficient, loco carriges driving trailor, the saving would be little, not worth it TBH, its right that dublin cork should have its own branded service including trains, we spent money buying them so IE shouldn't be able to get out of using them, as if they get away with storing/scrapping 8 year old trains what will it be next, scrapping any new carriges after a year in service?

corktina wrote: »

It has been shown repeatedly by others that it isn't possible to service the ships at Rosslare due to lack of paths further north.

an excuse is all that is, much potential when we had money to make it that dart and rosslare services could co-habbit fine without effecting each other, it was known when extension of the dart to graystones was even suggested that it would hinder future growth of the rosslare line yet it was just simply extended with no plan or no work to make sure both wouldn't effect each other or hinder each other, a slow dart train getting priority over faster services is also something that needs to be stamped out, it can be done without any noticable difference to dart customers, infact it might enhance it as darts would be able to go that little bit faster as they won't have to worry about traveling slow through an area so another service can get through, doesn't matter now anyway

end of the road

man98 wrote: »

97 daily passengers in early December 2012. I believe 0.001% of freight in Ireland is rail freight. We're meant to have it at 20% by 2020. Fat chance. Whereabouts do you travel from?

travel wexford dublin and back, or further afield when possible

corktina

an excuse it maybe, it isn't mine. But if the only argument being put forward is we must keep these lines open for their own sake rather than a more efficient method of transport, it's hard to see who other than a Rail Enthusiast will listen.

Judgement Day

corktina wrote: »

an excuse it maybe, it isn't mine. But if the only argument being put forward is we must keep these lines open for their own sake rather than a more efficient method of transport, it's hard to see who other than a Rail Enthusiast will listen.

The trouble with railway enthusiasts is that most (?) of them don't actual use trains - camera swingers who prefer to chase trains rather than travel on them and their opinions are next to useless.

end of the road

Judgement Day wrote: »

The remains of Ferns station still exists. When the GNR and Co.Donegal operated railcars they made maximum use of them i.e they stopped virtually everywhere on request. CIE/IE have made a virtue out of not doing this and if anything the railcars have none of the flexibility of their ancestors. They stop nowhere, have no capacity for anything other than passengers and have no view out the front like the AEC railcars - don't mention their lack of SDO. Another case, like the MkIV's where I would dismiss anybody involved in their purchase.

sadly i'm to young for the AEC railcars, and none are preserved (i'm aware of driving trailor 6111 but the scrapman is probably its next move) unless i go to the UK (which i might do sometime) i'l never get to experience them, i believe they were rather interesting machines though from the little i have been able to read about them

corktina

No22 was running at Didcot last weekend, you missed it!

Judgement Day

end of the road wrote: »

sadly i'm to young for the AEC railcars, and none are preserved (i'm aware of driving trailor 6111 but the scrapman is probably its next move) unless i go to the UK (which i might do sometime) i'l never get to experience them, i believe they were rather interesting machines though from the little i have been able to read about them

With large windows which - driver willing - passengers were able to see the view ahead. They were also used with additional carriages such as dining cars.

man98

While I'm here, I'm going to question how Wexford could handle DMUs stored overnight. Say 2-3 were left overnight and IR sent an 071 down. We only have 1 platform with sidings that might not even be usable any more.
No doubt Irish Rail are going to try to terminate Waterford - Limerick Junction when they go to build their new station. As a worker I know said, the rockfall couldn't have come at a better time for them.

end of the road

i don't think wexford could cope in such a situation, you'd nearly be better off having the trains travel the few minutes to rosslare rather then paying for sidings/loops and so on to be installed, and as sait it at least allows for the rail to the peer to be restored one day, are they going to build a new station in waterford? i don't see the point TBH, would cause more problems then its worth, and would remove the potential of the south wexford and lj lines to be reopened, or if things get good rule out a small commuter network around waterford if feasable

man98

end of the road wrote: »

i don't think wexford could cope in such a situation, you'd nearly be better off having the trains travel the few minutes to rosslare rather then paying for sidings/loops and so on to be installed, and as sait it at least allows for the rail to the peer to be restored one day, are they going to build a new station in waterford? i don't see the point TBH, would cause more problems then its worth, and would remove the potential of the south wexford and lj lines to be reopened, or if things get good rule out a small commuter network around waterford if feasable

Do you know where the MK3s are in Waterford? They're building it there, away from the cliff face. It is short sighted imo because that's going to make the flooding problems worse. Unless it's elevated.

dowlingm

The existing Waterford station was notably at a remove from town - shoving it out to yard will make bad worse. Might as well reverse the curve on the old Suir bridge and send them to the bank of the river where at least *some* people live.

Hungerford

Banjoxed wrote: »

You haven't seen much of the route of the Derry line then. Bit sparse in places to put it mildly.

Indeed. The intermediate stations between Coleraine and Derry are Bellarena (pop 291) and Castlerock (1,326). There is also a considerable distance between Ballymoney and Cullybackey (2,405) without any stations at all.

The Bangor line also has patches of sparse population: between Bangor and Holywood, there's Carnalea (778), Helen's Bay (1,362), Seahill (1,186) and Cultra (N/A).

Translink can generate significant traffic from these stations though through a combination of a clockface timetable and regular services. The hamlets on the Bangor line get two trains per hour, which is better than what Irish Rail musters for larger towns in the South.

mickydoomsux

David Franks was on with Pat Kenny this morning to basically make a state of the company address.

Journey times came up and he said the biggest problem was the single line nature and temporary speed restrictions. He maintains that Cork-Dublin and Belfast-Dublin should have had more investment during the Celtic Tiger because of the volume of traffic they handle.

He addressed the Travel Pass as regards forgeries and mis-use and said they are pulling in over 100 passes a week for various infractions and he thinks the cardboard passes are ludicrous at this stage.

There are no plans to close any lines but he said that the company needs to have serious discussions with the government regarding subvention for some lines. Limerick to Ballybrophy has 70ish passengers per day and only takes in around €700 a day. It doesn't even cover the fuel needed to run the trains. The companies view is that they have no problem providing a public service but that kind of situation is untenable in the current economic climate.

Hungerford

mickydoomsux wrote: »

David Franks was on with Pat Kenny this morning to basically make a state of the company address.

He's quite impressive and it's nice to hear someone other than Barry Kenny from IE. That said, the information minister has clearly briefed him - "we are the only rail network in Europe with wifi on all our trains" is a bare-faced lie. Translink has had wifi on all their trains for several years.

LXFlyer

Hungerford wrote: »

He's quite impressive and it's nice to hear someone other than Barry Kenny from IE. That said, the information minister has clearly briefed him - "we are the only rail network in Europe with wifi on all our trains" is a bare-faced lie. Translink has had wifi on all their trains for several years.

Perhaps an oversight rather than a lie?


I think that's a bit OTT to be honest.

dublinman1990

I think what is good about David Franks is that he is making honest attempts to change the railway for the better for the people living in Ireland rather than all of the other current senior management clowns in IE.

If he get rid of speed restrictions on mainlines he will get some leeway for improving train times for passengers including realistic reviews for timetables, reductions in rail fares for every paying passenger and a small discounted fare for those with a FTP will be a big plus for everyone who uses the railway.

The challenge for him though is maintaining intercity trains that for the most part are not catered for a 125mph top speed. If he had the authority to make a review of the fleet management in what they are allowed or not allowed to do it would be great.

Meaning having commuters trains being put on commuter routes and in Intercity trains on Intercity routes would be great for the passengers who use those services every day.

corktina

You can't get rid of speed restrictions without investment and they didn't invest in this area when times were good. What chance of investing now?

You can't have 125mph services without 125 mph traction. What chance of investment in this area? the 22Ks are 100 mph limited and almost new. The Mk4s are falling out of favour and need new locos/powercars to run at their rated 125 mph .

The challenge is to keep the best bits of the system and improve them with minimal expenditure. Basically the only way to do this is to cut wastage. I don't know if they can achieve this

end of the road

dublinman1990 wrote: »

having commuters trains being put on commuter routes and in Intercity trains on Intercity routes would be great for the passengers who use those services every day.

something that can be done with no cost, just sorting out the timetables and maintenence schedules, they were able to keep commuter trains on commuter routes back in the days of loco haulage before the cravens and many mark 2s were withdrawn so i don't see what the difference is today

dublinman1990

One thing I can say about IE is they got rid of the Mark 3's when they should have been kept in service for even longer. There was no need for IE to buy new 22000 or Mark IV trains that weren't properly specified for the network because I felt the public didn't even want them.

The amount of wastage in that exercise is obscene and should have been stopped long ago. But the problems is that the public is stuck with the new trains so they cannot they do anything about it.

Saving that money on buying those new trains alone could have been redirected to invest in maintaining and redeveloping the current rail lines which had should have been considered as a priority. IE management and the FF cronies at the time didn't cop that on for the most part because I feel they didn't have the capacity to listen to the public in the ways that you or I could have liked.

It still does happen today as a matter of fact when law abiding working people are being scammed by higher fares which makes the railways an unattractive piece of infrastructure to even use everyday to go into work.

That is something I feel that has to be addressed as to why that is happening in the first place.