Switching from Enterprise Java to Android

The_B_Man

Hi,

I've a couple of years working in industry, using your standard stuff like Java, Spring, Maven, etc. I like doing Java.

In college, I began making apps for Android (~2-3 yrs ago), and since then I've been building my own Android apps outside work. Its an interest I have, that I do for free and don't charge for my apps. Now I'm thinking I should just move to an Android job and get the best of both worlds.

I've applied for a few places looking for a couple of years experience (which I have) in Android (which I don't have, commercially). I've been told I don't meet the requirements as a result.

As this has happened a few times, its looking like my options are to stick the plain old Java route, and continue with my hobby on the side, or see if there's a graduate android role available, presumably at lower pay that will allow me to bridge the mobile divide!

Has anyone else been successful in crossing this gap? If so, do you have any advice?

Cheers.

The Corinthian

If you've been building and publishing your own Android apps for a while, then realistically you should be ticking the boxes for what and android developer role would require. There are only two issues that may arise that might cause them to reject you on the basis of 'fit' for a role, off the top of my head.

The first is that they want someone who is also an iOS developer. It might not be the primary function of the job, and you may not need to be a terribly experienced iOS developer, but it may be something that they're thinking would make you more useful and reflexive a resource in the future. Problem is that it's difficult to tell if this is an issue for them as they'll either put iOS as a 'nice to have' or omit it altogether in job specs, when in reality it's a lot more important to them to have.

Or not, depending upon the market; someone going for a job who can develop for both, will have an advantage over you, even if the job itself never touches iOS. That's what can happen in an employer's market; they're spoiled for choice.

Secondly putting an Android app together and publishing it is not very difficult, and so they may be looking at specific experience, such as with OpenGL, or in-app payments, or mapping/LBS, or sensors, or video streaming, or exposure to frameworks or hybrid applications or whatever. Again, not all job specs will specify this, especially if written by a HR or recruitment drone.

In all cases, try to chase up for specific feedback. Pester them for it - you won't always get any, but some will turn around and write you a few lines to tell you where you went short. If going through a HR department or recruiter, contact your (technical) interviewer directly - so always get cards at an interview.

Beyond that, 'criteria' may mean anything. It could be that you fit the criteria, but didn't make the cut of the top 10 CV's out of 100. Or it can even be code for something that they legally cannot turn you down over, such as age or gender. It's a stock answer.

The_B_Man

Ye it might be true that its a generic fob off.
I have been told that they wanted 2 years commercial Android experience, as opposed to personal/hobby work, and that's where I was falling down.

Suppose it'd be no harm to follow up next time asking for clarification.

Cheers.

Draco

The Corinthian wrote: »

That's what can happen in an employer's market; they're spoiled for choice.

Right now, it's very much an employee's market in Dublin.

On the face of it, it does sound strange that you're getting rejected. Are you getting to the interview stage? Are you dealing with just recruiters or directly with companies?

I'm presuming that you're listing your own apps in your CV? Are you highlighting them in your cover letter?

The_B_Man

Recruiters only.
The recruiters have come back and said the employer wanted the experience to be commercial only.
Didn't get to interview stage, was all just an initial "I'll send over ur CV and see what they say" type of thing.

In terms of highlighting my apps, my cover letter mentions them, and my CV links directly to them.
Perhaps I should go and update the UI on my earlier ones, coz they might be starting to look dated now.

The Corinthian

The_B_Man wrote: »

Ye it might be true that its a generic fob off.
I have been told that they wanted 2 years commercial Android experience, as opposed to personal/hobby work, and that's where I was falling down.

That's bizarre; you have commercial experience in the IT industry and you can, demonstrably, develop for Android. To me, and I've hired in the past, it makes little sense to demand commercial experience in Android under such circumstances, especially if, as Draco says, it's an employee's market at present.

I suspect it may be a fob off and the real reason is something else. I'd question why you commercial in IT is being ignored and what is so different about commercial experience in Android (in reality, it's not).

Alternatively publish some apps commercially. If you can make any money from them at all, then they're commercial, unless they want to pretend that the money you make from them is imaginary.

The_B_Man

I'm kinda hoping that its a HR drone fobbing me off, and that there's not something more serious "wrong" with me.
But then, if its HR simply binning my CV since it doesn't have dedicated commercial android experience, I'd have very little faith in crossing over!

I might go back and contact the agencies and see if they can seek clarification. At least if its something more specific, I might be able to work on it. Or maybe it was that they wanted 3 years minimum, and I only had 2, so they may simply have wanted somebody more senior. From looking at Irish Jobs, a lot of the Android jobs are looking for people with 3-5 years experience overall. Whether these are the jobs the agencies put me forward for, or not, I'm not sure.

Draco

Apply directly to the companies rather than through the recruiters - you might be just hitting a filter on the recruiter side. Do put pressure on them to give/get feedback.

Also keep an eye on clinch.io (it's a buddy's new start up) - because it's been setup by a mobile dev they're hitting the mobile dev orientated companies first.

Do you go to any of the meets? There's an iOS dev meetup tonight (http://www.meetup.com/Xcake-Mobile-app-development-with-an-Appley-flavour/events/175127112/) in the science gallery, but there's a lot of cross over in the audience between iOS and Android. You might be able to pick up a lead there.

The Corinthian

It's difficult to say what the problem is. Many agencies/HR departments are lazy; they don't actually read a CV and will use keyword search programs instead. It's possible that they're not getting that you have plenty of commercial experience as a developer - just not as an Android developer.

Otherwise such a rejection makes little sense to me, unless it's a fob-off hiding their real reasons or they're simply, and ironically, not qualified at their own jobs.

I'd chase the recruiter up and ask them why your years of commercial experience were ignored. Either way, I would continue applying for jobs.

The Corinthian

Draco wrote: »

Apply directly to the companies rather than through the recruiters - you might be just hitting a filter on the recruiter side.

True. Last time I was job hunting, I logged all my applications and found that they're the biggest point of failure in any application. Once your CV gets in front of a client, how much further you progress (telephone interview, face-to-face interviews, final interviews, offers) maps out almost identically regardless if whether you're going through a recruiter or not.

Recruiters add no value for 99% job seekers - they only actually bother to do any work once you're at executive level and their commission is worth the extra effort.

Employers typically use them because they don't have the resources to deal with recruiting or, more commonly, because their HR departments are basically lazy and can't be arsed putting ads up on the Web.

ChRoMe

The Corinthian wrote: »

Recruiters add no value for 99% job seekers -

Well that makes sense considering they are not paid by the recruiter.

The Corinthian

ChRoMe wrote: »

Well that makes sense considering they are not paid by the recruiter.

Not entirely. Remember recruiters don't get paid unless they successfully fill a role, so it is in their interest to help 'sell' the candidate to get it - often against candidates being submitted by other recruiters.

Some recruiters, generally at the higher end of the market, will actually spend plenty of time with their candidates, coaching them on what is likely to come up in the interviews, helping them 'tweak' their CVs and so on. However, most don't seem to bother although whether this is because the returns don't justify the effort or the recruiter is incompetent/lazy, I don't know.

The_B_Man

So this just happened again.
The company had 2 roles going.

1: Android dev
2: Regular Java dev

Had a phone interview with HR lady, who was really nice.

However at the end of the interview she said she was impressed with everything and how I'm really into Android in my spare time, but didnt think i had enough commercial android experience and wants to put my CV in for the regular Java role, with a possibility of crossing over at a later stage.

To be honest, I'd accept that Java role if it was offered, but I'd prefer the Android one. This was directly with the company, not through an agency. Would it be a good idea, I wonder, to email her back and ask her to run it by a dev manager or team lead to get their opinion, or would that come across as rude in a kinda "I dont trust your opinion, ask a proper dev" way?

Its incredibly frustrating.

Cheers.

The Corinthian

The_B_Man wrote: »

Would it be a good idea, I wonder, to email her back and ask her to run it by a dev manager or team lead to get their opinion, or would that come across as rude in a kinda "I dont trust your opinion, ask a proper dev" way?

I would come across as rude, or more correctly that you think she's not competent at her job, if you phased it like that. Instead, do what I suggested and ask:

The Corinthian wrote: »

I'd chase the recruiter up and ask them why your years of commercial experience were ignored.

I doubt she'll have an answer as commercial experience is basically commercial experience; any differences would be more technical, so if she tires to fob you off, ask her how they're so different. Or she might go to someone in development who'll likely tell her she's being silly.

Unless there is some incredible difference that I've not noticed in my 15 years of commercial experience, of course.

Chances are that even if she realizes she passed you over for stupid reasons, she'll never admit it anyway, though.