Are we in 1930's Mississippi?

oldyouth

140+ posts in and I'd say I'm not the only member who would like to freely say what they feel on this subject but accept that it would be against understandable forum rules.

I think that says a lot about which sector holds all the cards these days

Ghost Buster

humbert wrote: »

Jewish people don't need to have houses provided for them.

Why do travellers need them.?
I needed a house so I got a job, joined society and paid my way,

eviltwin

efb wrote: »

What has unemployment got to do with it? Why are they unemployed? Are they getting equal opportunities in the workplace?

You asked Galwayguy for stats to back up his claim that many are using social welfare as their wages

bobwilliams

there's a site near me in south county Dublin,they seem fine,the site 'looks' fine and kinda clean.
That was until I passed the site earlier this year upstairs on a bus,they were feckin everything over the wall into an adjacent field.
I even spotted a bottle of gas in the mess,they 'generally' have no respect for law,this is ingrained in a great % of them and imo will never change.

efb

eviltwin wrote: »

You asked Galwayguy for stats to back up his claim that many are using social welfare as their wages

I was referring to the social issues

efb

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Why do travellers need them.?
I needed a house so I got a job, joined society and paid my way,

So we don't need any social housing? Great!

Ghost Buster

efb wrote: »

What has unemployment got to do with it? Why are they unemployed? Are they getting equal opportunities in the workplace?

Perhaps they should ask themselves that question and then consider the answer they come up with.

diograis

gotta love a good straw man argument

eviltwin

efb wrote: »

I was referring to the social issues

Are you denying things like that happen? Just because its not on the front of a national newspaper doesn't mean it doesn't happen. If you have never had a problem with the travellers in your local halting site then you are lucky because my experience has been that they make life difficult for people.

Ghost Buster

efb wrote: »

I was referring to the social issues

Yes we do. But we should also consider why an entire 'culture' seems to expect a free ride whilst remaining removed from society by their own choice.

pablo128

efb wrote: »

What has unemployment got to do with it? Why are they unemployed? Are they getting equal opportunities in the workplace?

You seem to know them so well, so why don't you tell us?


Fck it then, I'll tell you. The general public, if they are claiming the dole will be required to prove they are looking for work from time to time. If they fail to look for work or enrol onto a course their dole will be cut. Travellers are exempt from this.
I work in a place where a lot of the staff do not need experience. We get a lot of lads dropping off c.v's into the trade counter. In my 5 years in the job, not 1 traveller has ever dropped in a c.v. Even though there are a number of halting sites in the area. There have been loads in trying to take scrap metal from the yard without permission though.

efb

pablo128 wrote: »

You seem to know them so well, so why don't you tell us?


Fck it then, I'll tell you. The general public, if they are claiming the dole will be required to prove they are looking for work from time to time. If they fail to look for work or enrol onto a course their dole will be cut. Travellers are exempt from this.
I work in a place where a lot of the staff do not need experience. We get a lot of lads dropping off c.v's into the trade counter. In my 5 years in the job, not 1 traveller has ever dropped in a c.v. Even though there are a number of halting sites in the area. There have been loads in trying to take scrap metal from the yard without permission though.

Well that's absolutely non refutable evidence. Is there a box marked traveller they have to tick or do you know them all? Also do you see all applications?

eviltwin

pablo128 wrote: »

You seem to know them so well, so why don't you tell us?


Fck it then, I'll tell you. The general public, if they are claiming the dole will be required to prove they are looking for work from time to time. If they fail to look for work or enrol onto a course their dole will be cut. Travellers are exempt from this.
I work in a place where a lot of the staff do not need experience. We get a lot of lads dropping off c.v's into the trade counter. In my 5 years in the job, not 1 traveller has ever dropped in a c.v. Even though there are a number of halting sites in the area. There have been loads in trying to take scrap metal from the yard without permission though.

I work with a traveller, she told me when she first announced to her family she was looking for work she was under so much pressure not to that she almost gave in. She's been working with us for 4 yrs now and she still has family members who won't speak to her.

Galwayguy35

efb wrote: »

That's a no then?

84% according to the Journal.ie, sounds about right to me.

In the last job I worked in during the boom years 6 members of the one family were taken on, given full time jobs and they were good workers.

Within a year the 6 of them had left to go back on the dole and are still on it.

pablo128

efb wrote: »

Well that's absolutely non refutable evidence. Is there a box marked traveller they have to tick or do you know them all? Also do you see all applications?

Jesus, you really are hard work. Would you like to know my shoe size?
It was probably just average lads in a yellow reg Transit speaking in a gutteral accent telling me to 'fcuk off boss or i'll box the head o' ye' when I told them to get out of the yard for lifting stuff. Yeah. Sure how the hell would I know a traveller. FFS.
Here, head on over to this thread.http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057183750

Renegade Mechanic

Ye'd know a traveller in a second. The same way youd know someone was a Dub, Corkman or Tipp, Kerry, Northern etc etc. Each group sounds quite different and are easily recognisable.

Femme_Fatale

There are legitimate concerns OP - even card-carrying members of the PC brigade like me can recognise them.

To compare this to 1930s Mississippi is crazy. An insult to black people who lived through that era. Were they covered by equality legislation? Were state funds invested in improvement of their lot?

Plenty of travellers are great people - I've known some fantastic ones - but this doesn't change the broader problems implicit in traveller culture. To deny them is just disingenuousness gone mad.

Renegade Mechanic

Also, Pablo128, while I may have somewhat firmly shown my position on the subject a while back Ill be the first to say you don't have to be a traveller to rob a headstone these days. There are plenty of people that low in society.

Travellers do hold a serious respect for the dead (again, increasing number of the younger generation exempt....)
Its just a shame they don't have more respect for the living.

Muise...

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Ye'd know a traveller in a second. The same way youd know someone was a Dub, Corkman or Tipp, Kerry, Northern etc etc. Each group sounds quite different and are easily recognisable.

True for you. Manners too - my mother can spot a Protestant from 20 paces. We reckon it's because they actually have manners.

bumper234

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Ye'd know a traveller in a second. The same way youd know someone was a Dub, Corkman or Tipp, Kerry, Northern etc etc. Each group sounds quite different and are easily recognisable.

The smell as well.

Not being funny either, there is a certain bang of smoke/oil/wet dog off the males. Anyone who says they couldn't spot a traveler a mile off is either lying or has led a very sheltered life with minimal contact with this section of society. I used to work as a doorman for many years and have a proud record of never letting one past me into any premises i worked.

efb

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

There are legitimate concerns OP - even card-carrying members of the PC brigade like me can recognise them.

To compare this to 1930s Mississippi is crazy. An insult to black people who lived through that era. Were they covered by equality legislation? Were state funds invested in improvement of their lot?

Plenty of travellers are great people - I've known some fantastic ones - but this doesn't change the broader problems implicit in traveller culture. To deny them is just disingenuousness gone mad.

To celebrate denying them housing as an achievement is disgusting IMO

Tasden

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

There are legitimate concerns OP - even card-carrying members of the PC brigade like me can recognise them.

To compare this to 1930s Mississippi is crazy. An insult to black people who lived through that era. Were they covered by equality legislation? Were state funds invested in improvement of their lot?

Plenty of travellers are great people - I've known some fantastic ones - but this doesn't change the broader problems implicit in traveller culture. To deny them is just disingenuousness gone mad.

Very well said.

Muise...

efb wrote: »

To celebrate denying them housing as an achievement is disgusting IMO

Who's celebrating? Letter in OP was a pleased announcement. Fcuk it, I could use a drink...

comongethappy

efb wrote: »

To celebrate denying them housing as an achievement is disgusting IMO

How is housing denied?

A traveller, you, me, a polish fellow are all equally entitled to work and acquire property.

coffee_cake

eviltwin wrote: »

I work with a traveller, she told me when she first announced to her family she was looking for work she was under so much pressure not to that she almost gave in. She's been working with us for 4 yrs now and she still has family members who won't speak to her.

I feel bad for a lot of the women and pressure against education

Arbiter of Good Taste

efb wrote: »

To celebrate denying them housing as an achievement is disgusting IMO

Who is denying anyone housing. The point everyone is making, which you are stubbornly refusing to acknowledge, is that no other sector of society is being given free housing, funded by the taxpayer, solely on the basis of their ethnicity.

Indeed why should they get free housing if they are capable of doing an honest days living, paying their taxes and buying it themselves, like most other people. Choose your lifestyle any way you want, but why should the taxpayer fund it? Please answer that question.

WilyCoyote

Travellers' Rights? What about Peoples' Rights?
How many of the PC Brigade would like it if a load of Travellers moved in next to them?

comongethappy

Does the OP offer any solutions?

(Other than perpetual state dependency).

Muise...

comongethappy wrote: »

Does the OP offer any solutions?

(Other than perpetual state dependency).

We must all admit that we are powerless against our racism, and attend this conference forthwith: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057182600

Femme_Fatale

efb wrote: »

To celebrate denying them housing as an achievement is disgusting IMO

It's not entirely that, to be fair. It's celebrating that a big risk is not being taken and that people won't be having to put up with shyte neighbours. Even if most travellers who'd have got those houses were fine, all it takes is a minority. Last time a traveller family lived in the complex I live in, they were a nightmare, and they weren't even the worst. The father was actually fairly pleasant in his mannerisms, but he was also organising trucks to enter the complex every ****ing night at midnight or after, waking people up (think it was dogs in the trucks :-/)
The kids (and there were loads and loads of them) were little thugs. The women... weren't to be seen.
You can say that's just one family but it is unfortunately large aspects of traveller culture in a nut-shell.

I don't blame settled people for the flack decent travellers get; I blame those in their own community who give them such a bad name.

This is what a risk it is: a few years ago, the entire town of Youghal - not just a few places but the entire town - shut down for a day because it was known a traveller wedding reception was being planned for there on that date. Youghal is a seaside town and relies pretty much entirely on tourism and the hospitality trade. It has been crippled economically in the last 15-20 years, with major employers like Kodak and Youghal Carpets closing. It has a lot of social problems due to unemployment.
The day in question was in early summer and it was a Saturday - the busiest day of the week, and at the start of the busiest season. Yet all bars, clubs, restaurants and hotels gave up a day's trade because it was too much of a risk to stay open.

You can call that just being discriminatory, but it didn't come from the wind. Risk management is not the same as discrimination on cultural grounds.