Irish Teen Fears Execution in Egypt

AlekSmart

Wright wrote: »

If the judgement was likely to not involve hanging or decapitation or 300 years in jail, sure. Again, why do I have to say this again, why is this not getting through your skull, if this had happened in Sweden or somewhere there'd be no story, no thread. His room would be bigger than mine, he'd have a flat screen and a full bookshelf all to himself. What about this basic concept is just out of your bloody reach. IT IS WHERE HE IS LOCATED THAT IS THE ISSUE.

At this point,it's also worth mentioning again,that Ibrahim Halawa does NOT face charges which currently carry the Death Penalty in Egypt.

Means Of Escape

Noblong wrote: »

Yeah. We care what your definition of an Irish citizen is.

An arrogant and dismissive reply by one with nothing else to add

Chemical Byrne

Look, this guy is not Irish in the real sense. He is only technically "Irish" due to holding an Irish citizenship & passport.

Being genuinely Irish is about a lot more than your citizenship status: ancestry, cultural identification etc etc.

This is the real reason why the government has little interest. COnversly if it were a young fella born n bread in west cork and raised on a diet of GAA and binge drinking they'd be pulling out all the stops to get him back. Simple as.

darkpagandeath

Wright wrote: »

If the judgement was likely to not involve hanging or decapitation or 300 years in jail, sure. Again, why do I have to say this again, why is this not getting through your skull, if this had happened in Sweden or somewhere there'd be no story, no thread. His room would be bigger than mine, he'd have a flat screen and a full bookshelf all to himself. What about this basic concept is just out of your bloody reach. IT IS WHERE HE IS LOCATED THAT IS THE ISSUE.

Really ? Citation

-No need seen user cannot reply-

ohnonotgmail

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Look, this guy is not Irish in the real sense. He is only technically "Irish" due to holding an Irish citizenship & passport.

Being genuinely Irish is about a lot more than your citizenship status: ancestry, cultural identification etc etc.

This is the real reason why the government has little interest. COnversly if it were a young fella born n bread in west cork and raised on a diet of GAA and binge drinking they'd be pulling out all the stops to get him back. Simple as.

the irish government has taken a massive interest in this case. the young lad has received extensive consular assistance.

darkpagandeath

Noblong wrote: »

Yeah. We care what your definition of an Irish citizen is.

Same as the States definition. Hence why the Irish state are seeking his release through diplomatic channels. As they realise the Egyptians have jurisdiction over this lad as he is Egyptian.

darkpagandeath

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Look, this guy is not Irish in the real sense. He is only technically "Irish" due to holding an Irish citizenship & passport.

Being genuinely Irish is about a lot more than your citizenship status: ancestry, cultural identification etc etc.

This is the real reason why the government has little interest. COnversly if it were a young fella born n bread in west cork and raised on a diet of GAA and binge drinking they'd be pulling out all the stops to get him back. Simple as.

No they would not this has been established as other Irish people abroad have never revived this kind of diplomatic help. If one was in Egypt as a born and bread Irishman you would have been given the number of a local lawyer and told well you broke the law. And tell us how you get on.

Smiles35

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Same as the States definition. Hence why the Irish state are seeking his release through diplomatic channels. As they realise the Egyptians have jurisdiction over this lad as he is Egyptian.

The lad has crimes to answer for according to you all thread. So much for persuit of justice. :pac:

darkpagandeath

Noblong wrote: »

The lad has crimes to answer for according to you all thread. So much for persuit of justice. :pac:

I guess one has not seen a video of incitement to violence ? There is video evidence.

And on that point some will argue he will not get justice in Egypt, he has been charged does one refute that ? What I think of his crimes is irrelevant as I am not Trying him

ohnonotgmail

Noblong wrote: »

The lad has crimes to answer for according to you all thread. So much for persuit of justice. :pac:

he certainly has to answer for what he has done. or do you consider him entirely innocent?

Hans Bricks

Noblong wrote: »

Yeah. We care what your definition of an Irish citizen is.

Yeah. We "care" he's an Irish citizen. He has a harp on his passport and a pps number. Woopdedoo.

darkpagandeath

Hans Bricks wrote: »

Yeah. We "care" he's an Irish citizen. He has a harp on his passport and a pps number. Woopdedoo.

True but currently that is not being recognised, Probably down to him refusing the deal that was brokered. Now the Egyptians are trying him as one of their own. I would not like to be on the receiving end of the outcome. I would hazard a guess the videos will come back to haunt.

Muahahaha

Wow 338 pages in and people are still arguing about his nationality ! People here are saying he has tenuous links with Ireland but as far as I can see he grew up here and has spent many of his formative years living and going to school here. Maybe that's not 'Irish' enough for some people but I'd love to know what their definition of 'Irish' really is. Are these the same people who don't see former Dublin GAA footballer Jason Sherlock as Irish because he doesn't fit their version of 'Irish'? I suspect they are.

Regards the whole passport thing, Halawa had one and therefore has Irish citizenship, end of. Our govt has a duty to help him out, as they do all Irish citizens. People should also remember the case of Ken Bigley, an English citizen and passport holder who also had an Irish grandmother. Before Bigley was beheaded in Iraq the Irish govt issued him with an Irish passport in the hope his captors might let him go. He had never before owned an Irish passport or claimed to be Irish. Nonetheless no-one had a problem with our govt issuing him a passport if it meant that he avoided being treated in a completely unjust manner. Which leads me to my last point...do those opposing Halawa on here really think that there is any kind of justice to be had in a mass trial of some 475 defendants? If so can you please explain how? Because that's the crux of all this for me, irrespective of his guilt or innocence the guy should be entitled to a fair trial where justice is done and seen to be done. Trying 475 people collectively is nothing more than a show trial designed to putting a chilling effect on all other citizens to deter them from protesting their govt or public policy in future. You cant get justice when you're tried with 475 other people, it is simply impossible and goes against any kind of rational thinking of what justice is and how it should be administered. If the Egyptian govt. can't administer justice in any meaningful sense then the DoFA have a duty to lobby on his behalf.

For the record I'm not swallowed in by some of the innocent stories of why he was there and what he was doing there. I see him as having questions to answer on these issues. However if those questions can't be put to him in a fair and just trial (and its pretty clear they can't) then our govt. has a duty to try lobby Egyptian authorities on his behalf.

RichardCeann

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

This is the real reason why the government has little interest. COnversly if it were a young fella born n bread in west cork and raised on a diet of GAA and binge drinking they'd be pulling out all the stops to get him back. Simple as.

Where are people getting this idea that the Irish government are doing little to help this guy? There are Irish citizens on death row in the US and an Irish born nurse is locked up in the Philippines for having a spliff in his bag despite the evidence being flimsy at best. Very few Irish people would be able to name them, nevermind being aware of their stories. Halawas story and case is getting multiples more attention than most. By both the government and the media.

Halawa has been visited over 40 times in prison by diplomatic staff and the Irish ambassador has attended all his trials in person. CF has said once the court procedure is finished he will apply for his release. The Irish government cannot interfere in Egyptian criminal proceedings. They have to let it run its course first. Just like we would not be best pleased if they interfered in ours. Egypt is a country in great turmoil and those holding it together cannot be seen to bend over to a western country's will.

Sinn Féin has said the Irish Government needs to appoint a new ambassador to Egypt as soon as possible.

It is after MEP Lynn Boylan from the party raised fears that Irish citizen Ibrahim Halawa could face tougher prison conditions if Ireland does not maintain diplomatic pressure to have him released.

The 19-year-old from Firhouse in Dublin is approaching the two-year anniversary of his arrest in Egypt, and is still awaiting trial.

The government has said it determined to secure his release, but that it cannot interfere with the judicial system in Egypt.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/sf-calls-on-government-to-appoint-new-egyptian-ambassador-689882.html

I really can't see what more can be done for him or what Sinn Fein and those involved in the campaign for his release expect the ambassador and government to do for him. But claims that they are ignoring his plight are untruthful at best.

darkpagandeath

Muahahaha wrote: »

Wow 338 pages in and people are still arguing about his nationality ! People here are saying he has tenuous links with Ireland but as far as I can see he grew up here and has spent many of his formative years living and going to school here. Maybe that's not 'Irish' enough for some people but I'd love to know what their definition of 'Irish' really is. Are these the same people who don't see former Dublin GAA footballer Jason Sherlock as Irish because he doesn't fit their version of 'Irish'? I suspect they are.

Regards the whole passport thing, Halawa had one and therefore has Irish citizenship, end of. Our govt has a duty to help him out, as they do all Irish citizens. People should also remember the case of Ken Bigley, an English citizen and passport holder who also had an Irish grandmother. Before Bigley was beheaded in Iraq the Irish govt issued him with an Irish passport in the hope his captors might let him go. He had never before owned an Irish passport or claimed to be Irish. Nonetheless no-one had a problem with our govt issuing him a passport if it meant that he avoided being treated in a completely unjust manner. Which leads me to my last point...do those opposing Halawa on here really think that there is any kind of justice to be had in a mass trial of some 475 defendants? If so can you please explain how? Because that's the crux of all this for me, irrespective of his guilt or innocence the guy should be entitled to a fair trial where justice is done and seen to be done. Trying 475 people collectively is nothing more than a show trial designed to putting a chilling effect on all other citizens to deter them from protesting their govt or public policy in future. You cant get justice when you're tried with 475 other people, it is simply impossible and goes against any kind of rational thinking of what justice is and how it should be administered. If the Egyptian govt. can't administer justice in any meaningful sense then the DoFA have a duty to lobby on his behalf.

For the record I'm not swallowed in by some of the innocent stories of why he was there and what he was doing there. I see him as having questions to answer on these issues. However if those questions can't be put to him in a fair and just trial (and its pretty clear they can't) then our govt. has a duty to try lobby Egyptian authorities on his behalf.

Did we forget the video evidence of him pronouncing "I have come home ?"

Muahahaha

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Did we forget the video evidence of him pronouncing "I have come home ?"

whats your point? Dual citizens typically see themselves as having two homes. Immigrants the world over who settle in another country don't just turn their back on their heritage overnight.

ohnonotgmail

Muahahaha wrote: »

whats your point? Dual citizens typically see themselves as having two homes. Immigrants the world over who settle in another country don't just turn their back on their heritage overnight.

except he was supposedly born here.

wendell borton

There's plenty of other Irish citizens locked up in dodgy countries with minimal support from the authorities. Just heard on Joes Duffy about the case of a retired Irish citizen locked up in Spain for over a year without charges against him. Despite good references he only received one consular visit and no political representation.

darkpagandeath

Muahahaha wrote: »

whats your point? Dual citizens typically see themselves as having two homes. Immigrants the world over who settle in another country don't just turn their back on their heritage overnight.

Yes it is confusing I have said he is an Immigrant due to the dates of arrival in Ireland and the birth date. But one said he was born here now he's an Immigrant which is it ? I would argue he does not think of himself As Irish due to the video evidence. Coming home comments and with my brothers all that. And the attire/attitude in the video. Does not come off particularly western to me never mind Irish, As his entire family is Egyptian.

And before anyone jumps on it I am not talking about Religious clothing.

Muahahaha

darkpagandeath wrote: »

No they would not this has been established as other Irish people abroad have never revived this kind of diplomatic help. If one was in Egypt as a born and bread Irishman you would have been given the number of a local lawyer and told well you broke the law. And tell us how you get on.

Thats simply not true- I refer you to the case of Ken Bigley, who wasn't an Irish citizen but was given an Irish passport

end of the road

Means Of Escape wrote: »

No an Egyptian who also holds an Irish passport is being held in Egypt

no an irish citizen is being held in a country with an illegitimate government, where he has no chance of a fair just trial, but a trial based on mostly made up "evidence" to ensure a required verdict by that government

darkpagandeath

Muahahaha wrote: »

Thats simply not true- I refer you to the case of Ken Bigley, who wasn't an Irish citizen but was given an Irish passport

I refer one to the rumours Irish abroad in foreign jails. Receiving the old, You broke the law here is the number of a local lawyer. Let us know how you get on. Not even getting in the papers let alone being debated in the Dail. Or being helped by Amnesty international.

darkpagandeath

end of the road wrote: »

no an irish citizen is being held in a country with an illegitimate government, where he has no chance of a fair just trial, but a trial based on mostly made up "evidence" to ensure a required verdict by that government

Oh Do tell the rest of us what's in the case books regarding this case ? As It's not been reported anywhere the exact details of the case.

end of the road

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Look, this guy is not Irish in the real sense. He is only technically "Irish" due to holding an Irish citizenship & passport.

no, he is technically irish because he is technically irish. he is as irish as you and me, and one will accept it.

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Being genuinely Irish is about a lot more than your citizenship status: ancestry, cultural identification etc etc.

nonsense, its about being simply irish regardless of whatever. irish is irish is irish.

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

This is the real reason why the government has little interest.

is it? have the government little interest?

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

COnversly if it were a young fella born n bread in west cork and raised on a diet of GAA and binge drinking they'd be pulling out all the stops to get him back. Simple as.

so no more then they would do for any citizen including this chap?

ohnonotgmail

Muahahaha wrote: »

Thats simply not true- I refer you to the case of Ken Bigley, who wasn't an Irish citizen but was given an Irish passport

he wasnt an irish citizen but was entitled to an irish passport. the irish government did this in an attempt to save his life. but what has this got to do with young ibrahim?

darkpagandeath

end of the road wrote: »

no, he is technically irish because he is technically irish. he is as irish as you and me, and one will accept it.



nonsense, its about being simply irish regardless of whatever. irish is irish is irish.



is it? have the government little interest?



so no more then they would do for any citizen including this chap?

How many Irish people do you know being shown on video pronouncing their support for their fellow Egyptian brothers and waffling about coming home to Egypt ?

Chemical Byrne

If this was a normal american citizen banged up there the americans would be "sending in a team" to extract him.

darkpagandeath

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

If this was a normal american citizen banged up there the americans would be "sending in a team" to extract him.

No they would not why would they send in a team to get a MB supporter ?

ohnonotgmail

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

If this was a normal american citizen banged up there the americans would be "sending in a team" to extract him.

you mean like they did for the american citizens currently in prison in Iran? oh wait, they didnt. i think you've watched too many chuck norris films

darkpagandeath

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you mean like they did for the american citizens currently in prison in Iran? oh wait, they didnt. i think you've watched too many chuck norris films

I think they are thinking of this.

ohnonotgmail

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I think they are thinking of this.

i love that film.

weldoninhio

Wright wrote: »

What your willfully missing is that Egypt is not exactly a fair and open democracy right now; 'perfectly legal' in their book could be some messed up ♡♡♡♡, hence the whole hubbub in the first place. If this lad got arrested in Sweden or somewhere, no fuss, no thread. Your logic centres fail you.

If he was Irish American and arrested in America, he'd be seen as American and the Irish citizenship would not matter. If he was Irish-Swahili, and arrested in Swaziland his Irish citizenship would not matter.

You not understanding how dual citizenship and being arrested in one of the dual countries works has nothing to do with logic. It's 100% ignorance.

Muahahaha

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

except he was supposedly born here.

Lots of people are born here and grow up in other places. Does that make them any more or any less Irish?

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Yes it is confusing I have said he is an Immigrant due to the dates of arrival in Ireland and the birth date. But one said he was born here now he's an Immigrant which is it ? I would argue he does not think of himself As Irish due to the video evidence. Coming home comments and with my brothers all that. And the attire/attitude in the video. Does not come off particularly western to me never mind Irish, As his entire family is Egyptian.

And before anyone jumps on it I am not talking about Religious clothing.

I think you're right- he likely doesn't identify as Irish in the sense that many of us here do. Despite being born here he likely grew up in a house where the customs and heritage were different than what most Irish kids would grow up with. But all that doesn't make him any less Irish in terms of citizenship, he had an Irish passport and is an Irish citizen, end of. Unless you want to define what it is to be 'Irish'? Do you have to love the GAA? Because I prefer the Premier League, does that make me 'less Irish'? Does not being fluent in Irish make me 'less Irish'? Or not liking Guinness? What does it mean to be Irish? Its actually undefinable so I don't get why people are trying to define him as 'not Irish', despite him having paperwork to prove otherwise.

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I refer one to the rumours Irish abroad in foreign jails. Receiving the old, You broke the law here is the number of a local lawyer. Let us know how you get on. Not even getting in the papers let alone being debated in the Dail. Or being helped by Amnesty international.

What have other Irish in foreign jails got to do with it? I once visited an Irishman in a jail in Thailand, he murdered a man and admitted as much. Are you saying the likes of him should be getting Dail time and media coverage, simply on the basis that Halawa is?

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

he wasnt an irish citizen but was entitled to an irish passport. the irish government did this in an attempt to save his life. but what has this got to do with young ibrahim?

The point is look how far the Irish govt went in the Ken Bigley case for a person who wasn't even an Irish citizen when he got taken captive. They rushed through a passport for him, forgoing all the usual security precautions such as him actually filling out a passport application like every Irish citizen has to do. It was a highly unusual case but our govt did their best to save his life. So if the DFA went that far for a non-Irish citizen I don't think it is much to ask that they do likewise for an Irish citizen who cannot get a fair trial.


Which gets me to one final point. Can any of the posters here offer a decent argument in favour of the Egyptian judicial system and its ability to administer justice? Because unless you think he can actually get a fair trial then all these circular arguments on whether he is Irish or not are a complete waste of time. If he can get a fair trial in Egypt then I think he should be tried there. But only a lunatic would argue that being tried alongside 475 other detainees is going to result in a fair and just trial.

ohnonotgmail

Muahahaha wrote: »

The point is look how far the Irish govt went in the Ken Bigley case for a person who wasn't even an Irish citizen when he got taken captive. They rushed through a passport for him, forgoing all the usual security precautions such as him actually filling out a passport application like every Irish citizen has to do. It was a highly unusual case but our govt did their best to save his life. So if the DFA went that far for a non-Irish citizen I don't think it is much to ask that they do likewise for an Irish citizen who cannot get a fair trial.
.

Ken Bigley was not charged with a crime. he was not given a trial. he had no committed no crime except that of being british. Rushing through a passport for him was not a massive effort. Young Ibrahim has taken up far more of the irish governments time and continues to do so.

darkpagandeath

Muahahaha wrote: »

Lots of people are born here and grow up in other places. Does that make them any more or any less Irish?



I think you're right- he likely doesn't identify as Irish in the sense that many of us here do. Despite being born here he likely grew up in a house where the customs and heritage were different than what most Irish kids would grow up with. But all that doesn't make him any less Irish in terms of citizenship, he had an Irish passport and is an Irish citizen, end of. Unless you want to define what it is to be 'Irish'? Do you have to love the GAA? Because I prefer the Premier League, does that make me 'less Irish'? Does not being fluent in Irish make me 'less Irish'? Or not liking Guinness? What does it mean to be Irish? Its actually undefinable so I don't get why people are trying to define him as 'not Irish', despite him having paperwork to prove otherwise.



What have other Irish in foreign jails got to do with it? I once visited an Irishman in a jail in Thailand, he murdered a man and admitted as much. Are you saying the likes of him should be getting Dail time and media coverage, simply on the basis that Halawa is?



The point is look how far the Irish govt went in the Ken Bigley case for a person who wasn't even an Irish citizen when he got taken captive. They rushed through a passport for him, forgoing all the usual security precautions such as him actually filling out a passport application like every Irish citizen has to do. It was a highly unusual case but our govt did their best to save his life. So if the DFA went that far for a non-Irish citizen I don't think it is much to ask that they do likewise for an Irish citizen who cannot get a fair trial.


Which gets me to one final point. Can any of the posters here offer a decent argument in favour of the Egyptian judicial system and its ability to administer justice? Because unless you think he can actually get a fair trial then all these circular arguments on whether he is Irish or not are a complete waste of time. If he can get a fair trial in Egypt then I think he should be tried there. But only a lunatic would argue that being tried alongside 475 other detainees is going to result in a fair and just trial.

I would not go and break laws in a country that I don't like the legal system in. Whiles going on about coming home and being with my brothers. So one cannot really complain if one thinks they are home. And I would wager this chap would be fine with the legal system if the MB was in charge as it has not changed. I cannot get my head around the sisters going on about human rights and all that in relation to the military in power when they would be fine if it was a MB court handing out the same justice. Well probably worse justice actually.

RichardCeann

You are trying to compare Ken Begley, who was captured and murdered by Islamic terrorists, to Halawa, who was agitating on behalf of an illegal Islamic organisation.

That's impressive.

weldoninhio

Muahahaha wrote: »

Which gets me to one final point. Can any of the posters here offer a decent argument in favour of the Egyptian judicial system and its ability to administer justice? Because unless you think he can actually get a fair trial then all these circular arguments on whether he is Irish or not are a complete waste of time. If he can get a fair trial in Egypt then I think he should be tried there. But only a lunatic would argue that being tried alongside 475 other detainees is going to result in a fair and just trial.

Well I'd point to some of the people who have already been tried, and found not guilty as an argument in favour of the Egyptian judiciary. If they were just finding everyone guilty I'd agree that it was a kangaroo court, but they are methodically working their way through the numbers arrested, going through the evidence and coming to their decision that way. Sounds like pretty much any other civilised judiciary in the developed world.

RichardCeann

weldoninhio wrote: »

If he was Irish American and arrested in America, he'd be seen as American and the Irish citizenship would not matter.

Michael Fitzpatrick is an Irish citizen who has been on Death Row in Florida for over a decade. Not a peep out of our elected representatives.

darkpagandeath

weldoninhio wrote: »

Well I'd point to some of the people who have already been tried, and found not guilty as an argument in favour of the Egyptian judiciary. If they were just finding everyone guilty I'd agree that it was a kangaroo court, but they are methodically working their way through the numbers arrested, going through the evidence and coming to their decision that way. Sounds like pretty much any other civilised judiciary in the developed world.

That don't sell outrage, sorry papers.

Pedro K

end of the road wrote: »

no an irish citizen is being held in a country with an illegitimate government, where he has no chance of a fair just trial, but a trial based on mostly made up "evidence" to ensure a required verdict by that government

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7j0JxYeB4To

Are you still spouting this absolute nonsense? Whate evidence is made up?

ohnonotgmail

RichardCeann wrote: »

Michael Fitzpatrick is an Irish citizen who has been on Death Row in Florida for over a decade. Not a peep out of our elected representatives.

he became an irish citizen through his granny. 12 years after being convicted of rape and murder. Perhaps i'm just being cynical but perhaps he only applied for an irish passport because he thought it might provide him with some extra help. you would think they would have some background checks in place before giving somebody a passport.

darkpagandeath

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

he became an irish citizen through his granny. 12 years after being convicted of rape and murder. Perhaps i'm just being cynical but perhaps he only applied for an irish passport because he thought it might provide him with some extra help. you would think they would have some background checks in place before giving somebody a passport.

Especially people who arrive on these shores with suspect pasts.

ohnonotgmail

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Especially people who arrive on these shores with suspect pasts.

he didnt even arrive on these shores. there is no indication he has ever set foot in this country.

darkpagandeath

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

he didnt even arrive on these shores. there is no indication he has ever set foot in this country.

The entire family have Irish passports. I wonder on what grounds they were given.

ohnonotgmail

darkpagandeath wrote: »

The entire family have Irish passports. I wonder on what grounds they were given.

probably the granny rule, the same as him.

darkpagandeath

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

probably the granny rule, the same as him.

No I'm talking about this chaps family.

ohnonotgmail

darkpagandeath wrote: »

No I'm talking about this chaps family.

oh you mean young ibraheem. I honestly dont know.

ohnonotgmail

just as a point of reference in case this comes up again regarding consular assistance for dual citizens. the quote comes from a response by the minister in the Dail regarding another dual citizen.

My Department does not have an automatic entitlement to provide consular assistance to the person referred to by the Deputy given that he is an American citizen being tried in a US court. In cases involving dual nationality, it is at the discretion of the host nation whether to acknowledge a person’s second citizenship and to afford that country’s diplomatic service access to provide consular assistance.

http://www.thomaspringle.ie/question-on-consular-assistance-give-to-irish-citizen-facing-death-penalty/

darkpagandeath

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

just as a point of reference in case this comes up again regarding consular assistance for dual citizens. the quote comes from a response by the minister in the Dail regarding another dual citizen.



http://www.thomaspringle.ie/question-on-consular-assistance-give-to-irish-citizen-facing-death-penalty/

So does that put a nail in the coffin that the Egyptians are illegitimate thugs that make stuff up ? As they are allowing Irish counsellor access.

DarkyHughes

Sounds horrible what he's going to through. That's pure raw militarism for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqtFEGgCLOg