Irish Teen Fears Execution in Egypt

ohnonotgmail

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Halawa was in the Muslim Brotherhood, a prescribed terrorist organisation. His detention in a Cairo prison relates to his attempt to cause civil uprising. Now human rights groups want him released because they feel he is being treated unjustifiable harsh by the Egyptian authorities, this may very well be true and he should probable be released because human rights is not ideal in a prison in an Islamic country. This does not take away from the fact that he was working with terrorists, he was involved in terrorism and that the Egyptian gvt should arrest anyone who is involved in acts of terrorism.

and this is precisely nothing to do with the french et al selling weapons to saudis.

KingBrian2

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

and this is precisely nothing to do with the french et al selling weapons to saudis.

I am merely pointing out our trade policies have an impact on Arab gvts. We continue to sell them weapons at the expense of human rights and we will see more cases of individuals like Halawa being found collaborating with terrorists. Ireland is a small country but if we really want to avoid similar cases stop doing business with countries that are human rights abusers.

darkpagandeath

KingBrian2 wrote: »

I am merely pointing out our trade policies have an impact on Arab gvts. We continue to sell them weapons at the expense of human rights and we will see more cases of individuals like Halawa being found collaborating with terrorists. Ireland is a small country but if we really want to avoid similar cases stop doing business with countries that are human rights abusers.

Yeah good luck with that we would end up eating grass pretty fast. Try not trading with China, USA, UK I can keep going.

KingBrian2

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Yeah good luck with that we would end up eating grass pretty fast. Try not trading with China, USA, UK I can keep going.

Britain and America are both democracies while China has made great strides in changing attitudes indeed many Arab countries before the uprisings had also made the transition to western orientated beliefs, the question is how far do you take it. Simple allow a mob descend on the street and call for President's and PM's to be murdered and replaced with Islamic law. Situations like this require a military to reign in protestors or rioters more like looking to cause more violence. The militaries in these countries go back to the formation of the states, the entire country in the case of Egypt value the army so it is ludicrous for us Western educated people to always believe the protestors are right in every case.

KingBrian2

KingBrian2 wrote: »

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-03-11/europe-stands-up-to-saudi-arabia

Were part of the EU which trades extensively with vile rulers. Ireland does not sell weapons because we don't make weapons that can be sold but we are culpable by refusing to demand sanctions be placed on Saudi Arabia for funding Jihadi organisations.

ie we've nothing to do with selling weapons to Saudi Arabia. please give short, clear answers to direct questions this thread is already long enough.

mattP

If his name was Liam McCarthy (or anything similar )and his father was head of a Catholic organisation then it would be plastered all over the papers

KingBrian2

mattP wrote: »

If his name was Liam McCarthy (or anything similar )and his father was head of a Catholic organisation then it would be plastered all over the papers

If Liam McCarthy was in a drug gang then no it wouldn't people wouldn't care. Egyptian officers getting gunned down by terrorists.

ohnonotgmail

mattP wrote: »

If his name was Liam McCarthy (or anything similar )and his father was head of a Catholic organisation then it would be plastered all over the papers

not this rubbish again

mattP

mattP wrote: »

If his name was Liam McCarthy (or anything similar )and his father was head of a Catholic organisation then it would be plastered all over the papers

he wouldnt have been fuppin over there askin for fuppin trouble then would he

custard gannet

mattP wrote: »

If his name was Liam McCarthy (or anything similar )and his father was head of a Catholic organisation then it would be plastered all over the papers

Well for a start, it is plastered all over the papers.

But then, let's imagine.

Let's imagine Breda O'Brien or David Quinn's son was arrested in California for, I don't know, public disorder, a hate crime and possession of a concealed weapon in a "gun free zone" for, while on his holidays, finding himself in the middle of a bunch of Christian fundamentalist zealots during an invasion of a gay wedding, and held on remand pending the posting of a ridiculous bail sum (a very common occurrence in the US, as bail for even relatively minor offences such as assault and low level drug dealing is often at least in the five figures).

Let us also imagine that during the invasion of the gay wedding, a TV crew showed up, and the young chap rants some stuff about the wedding being against the democratic public opinion of some states, and that the fight is now in God's hands or some such waffle.

Then imagine that after all of this, his sisters say he just happened to be in the vicinity of the protest, and make up a load of shyte that completely falls apart once the TV crew air their footage.

Would you care?

Would Amnesty care?

Would you, or Amnesty, care about the arrest and detention pending trial of the son of a right wing religious homophobe?

If you wouldn't, ask yourself why you care so much about the son of a right wing religious fundamentalist who, if I was to bet my last euro, wasn't proposing the introduction of same sex marriage in Egypt nor in Ireland.

Do you have a racial preference for the sons of brown skinned right wing homophobic religious zealots, and a dislike of the sons of white, right wing fundamentalist homophobic zealots?


Are you a racist MattP?

KingBrian2

The terrorists in South Carolina sported the Rhodesia and Confederate flags as he murdered innocent civilians. Terrorists everywhere are the same, lock them up where they can't cause violence. Were being asked to believe these guys were promoting democracy in Cairo. I find that hard to imagine given that we know he supported the Muslim Brotherhood and had no intention of obeying the laws of the land.

custard gannet

I would actually go out on a limb here and tell his piece of shyt sisters this about their moaning about the lack of government attention to their cause.

In the last 20 years the only other prominent cases of Irish citizens imprisoned abroad that I can recall were the Colombia Three, Roisin McAliskey in Germany and Michaela McAlorum.

The Colombia Three were big news because of when it happened in the peace process, and because the location of their capture raised questions as to exactly what the attitude of the PIRA towards drug trafficking really was.

If I recall correctly Roisin McAliskey was pregnant when she was arrested in Germany. Quite a few IRA male members have been arrested before and since on the European mainland with fuuck all news coverage.

With Michaela McAlorum, she not only became famous before her arrest because she was missing presumed dead, but she is also a bit of a looker, which meant her story was more interesting than it would have been if it was only her fairly homely Scottish friend who had been arrested.



I would tell his sisters that apart from Michaela McAlorum this clown Ibrahim has had more government help and media support than the other three combined (primarily because number one he is "new Irish" and the government love to be seeing to be all good on that end, and secondly that the Dail never fancied involving itself with republicans knee deep in drug trafficking)

darkpagandeath

Seen this was being discussed AGAIN on Dail TV in relation to sending over a delegation and the whole 9 yards. Getting a bit ridiculous at this stage how much has been spent so far ? I mean why does a delegation from TD's need to go over ? Is that not what the local diplomat is for.

wendell borton

The Columbia 3 were over there sharing their knowledge of bird watching.

skooterblue2

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I mean why does a delegation from TD's need to go over ? Is that not what the local diplomat is for.

There is a pre Black friday sale on Egyptian cotton for the TD's spouses to go tax free shopping.

AlekSmart

mattP wrote: »

If his name was Liam McCarthy (or anything similar )and his father was head of a Catholic organisation then it would be plastered all over the papers

I'm afraid that is just Not the Case with Mr Hawalla and his bit of bother.

By any measure the Irish State has provided support and assistance FAR beyond any former incidence of foreign incarceration.

The Dept of Foreign Affairs and the Consular Staff in Egypt have fully documented their almost constant presence at Mr Hawalla's various arraignments.

It must also be noted that Mr Hawalla also has a full legal team of his own,in addition to access to NGO's such as Amnesty Int'l.

On a slightly OT note,it's somewhat apparent that the Irish campaign to "Free" Mr Hawalla is not quite drawing the numbers that his original Cairene gig ....

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/amnesty-fears-dublin-teenager-ibrahim-halawa-will-face-sham-trial-31578564.html

A slight change of tack apparent with the Hawalla sisters being sidelined in favour of the more acceptably measured tones of Amnesty's Colm O'Gorman..

Executive director at Amnesty International Ireland Colm O'Gorman said no one knows what will happen when Ibrahim appears before the court.

A tacit recognition that Egyptian Court appearances and Irish one's may well be surprisingly similar.

Still no announcement as to whether the Hawalla sisters will return to take up their bail conditions,and have their own day in the same Cairo Court ?

darkpagandeath

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/ibrahim-halawa-trial-postponed-again-699056.html

Postponed again.

Longstand14

Who cares whether it is postponed. Its only a pity that his father is not awaiting trial with him. These scum should be locked up for life!

Citizen2011

I thought the little hero was on hunger strike. How come he's still alive.

AlekSmart wrote: »

I'm afraid that is just Not the Case with Mr Hawalla and his bit of bother.

By any measure the Irish State has provided support and assistance FAR beyond any former incidence of foreign incarceration.

The Dept of Foreign Affairs and the Consular Staff in Egypt have fully documented their almost constant presence at Mr Hawalla's various arraignments.

It must also be noted that Mr Hawalla also has a full legal team of his own,in addition to access to NGO's such as Amnesty Int'l.

On a slightly OT note,it's somewhat apparent that the Irish campaign to "Free" Mr Hawalla is not quite drawing the numbers that his original Cairene gig ....

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/amnesty-fears-dublin-teenager-ibrahim-halawa-will-face-sham-trial-31578564.html

A slight change of tack apparent with the Hawalla sisters being sidelined in favour of the more acceptably measured tones of Amnesty's Colm O'Gorman..



A tacit recognition that Egyptian Court appearances and Irish one's may well be surprisingly similar.

Still no announcement as to whether the Hawalla sisters will return to take up their bail conditions,and have their own day in the same Cairo Court ?

Galwayguy35

Anyone know was there many at the protest the other day?

wyrn

darkpagandeath wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/ibrahim-halawa-trial-postponed-again-699056.html

Postponed again.

That's unbelievable. Well it's not but all the same, it's terrible news. Whatever you (and I don't mean you darkpagandeath) think about Ibrahim, having your trial postponed 9 times is taking the proverbial. The authorities should just get it over with. At least with a verdict the Ibrahim and his family will be able to move on, whether it's an appeal process or back to his old life.

I wonder if his sisters skipping bail will have a negative impact on his case.

Martial9

wyrn wrote: »

I wonder if his sisters skipping bail will have a negative impact on his case.

It shouldn't do, as he was locked up at the time so in no way responsible. Would explain this delayed trial craic though.

skooterblue2

wyrn wrote: »

I wonder if his sisters skipping bail will have a negative impact on his case.

Well it didnt help but you should really look at who his father is and was.
That will tell you more than enough

darkpagandeath

Heard that amnesty lad on the radio, Banging on again. Have no idea what more he wants he already explained it's a consular case and nothing can be done till a trial has been carried out. What more do they want ? he seemed more happy to plug the amnesty webby. Seemed a bit deluded calling for Ireland and the world to show it's displeasure at the Egyptian government in relation to our Fella. Kept going on about mass trials this that mass deaths. I don't remember any executions having been carried out.

darkpagandeath

http://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/rteradiowebpage.html#!type=radio&rii=9%3A20857175%3A48%3A05%2D10%2D2015%3A

Link to the RTE Radio... yes I know but was flicking through stuff.

skooterblue2

Actually it does happen but only in extreme cases.

BBC

darkpagandeath

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Actually it does happen but only in extreme cases.

BBC

No I know people have in relation to extremely deadly clashes but the death penalties have not been carried out and may never be they may just stay in jail. The lad on the radio banged on like they were killing people left right and centre.

Keplar240B

There's a shortage of judges due to Islamist assassins.

323

darkpagandeath wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/ibrahim-halawa-trial-postponed-again-699056.html

Postponed again.

What odds?

OK, so this man, (he's not a kid) goes there to stir up trouble and commit violence. Gets caught, and pulls an Irish passport like its some kind of get out of jail free card!
Then the media says "The Irish Government has come in for criticism for their failure to secure Ibrahim's release."

What right has our government to dictate to the Criminal justice system of another sovereign country?



So his day in court has been postponed nine times! Ever consider that this could be because the Egyptian criminal justice system is just massively overrun dealing with tossers like this.


Amazed this thread is still running.

weldoninhio

Jesus, he'd a sore back this time and could hardly stand according to his sister. So he's got, so far, a shot hand that got no medical treatment, a heart defect that's gone untreated and now a bad back. What next? Ingrown toenail? Ingrown hair, heard they're terrible? I reckon something to do with his eyes will be the next medical emergency he has.

lanos

weldoninhio wrote: »

Jesus, he'd a sore back this time and could hardly stand according to his sister. So he's got, so far, a shot hand that got no medical treatment, a heart defect that's gone untreated and now a bad back. What next? Ingrown toenail? Ingrown hair, heard they're terrible? I reckon something to do with his eyes will be the next medical emergency he has.

a family of spoofers it would seem

or as Fr Jack Hacket would say
a shower of bastards

Odyssey 2005

Lead poisoning or rope burn, that'll cure him.

hatrickpatrick

323 wrote: »

What right has our government to dictate to the Criminal justice system of another sovereign country?

Amazed that people are still referring to the current Egyptian regime as if it was a legitimate government and not a military junta which has violently crushed political opposition.

Alexis Sanchez

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Amazed that people are still referring to the current Egyptian regime as if it was a legitimate government and not a military junta which has violently crushed political opposition.

I'm amazed people are still defending an Islamic fundamentalist regime that tried to give themselves unlimited powers, while criticizing the military for legally seizing power, as per the Egyptian constitution, because the majority of Egyptians wanted Morsi out, hence the protests preceding the coup.

WarZ

Alexis Sanchez wrote: »

I'm amazed people are still defending an Islamic fundamentalist regime that tried to give themselves unlimited powers, while criticizing the military for legally seizing power, as per the Egyptian constitution, because the majority of Egyptians wanted Morsi out, hence the protests preceding the coup.

Funny how things change huh?

When that teenager went over the wide consensus in the western media was that Mubarak was a brutal dictator and that popular elections should bring whatever party wins to power. Halawi was a vocal proponent of that.

Now this same teenager is vilified for supporting the party that at the time the majority of Egyptians supported and eventually world leaders supported.

Is Halawi or indeed the majority of the Egyptian population who voted for them responsible for Morsi completely doing a 360 on all his promises?

At the end of the day, a military junta has seized power. The trials are completely unjust. He's an Irish citizen whether some here like it or not. This thread has turned into a cess pool full of hatred from a lot of posters who clearly have massive personal issues to invoke such hatred towards other individuals because of their religion or skin colour (that is not targeted at the poster I quoted by the way)

hatrickpatrick

Alexis Sanchez wrote: »

I'm amazed people are still defending an Islamic fundamentalist regime that tried to give themselves unlimited powers, while criticizing the military for legally seizing power, as per the Egyptian constitution, because the majority of Egyptians wanted Morsi out, hence the protests preceding the coup.

Legitimately deposing somebody is quite a separate matter to what happened afterwards - the banning of a legitimate political organisation and the brutal suppression of people's legitimate right to protest and dissent. The military junta is an absolute disgrace, as is the West's tolerance of them and willingness to do business with them.

SeanW

WarZ wrote: »

Funny how things change huh?

When that teenager went over the wide consensus in the western media was that Mubarak was a brutal dictator and that popular elections should bring whatever party wins to power. Halawi was a vocal proponent of that.

Now this same teenager is vilified for supporting the party that at the time the majority of Egyptians supported and eventually world leaders supported.

Is Halawi or indeed the majority of the Egyptian population who voted for them responsible for Morsi completely doing a 360 on all his promises?

At the end of the day, a military junta has seized power. The trials are completely unjust. He's an Irish citizen whether some here like it or not. This thread has turned into a cess pool full of hatred from a lot of posters who clearly have massive personal issues to invoke such hatred towards other individuals because of their religion or skin colour (that is not targeted at the poster I quoted by the way)

The majority of Germans voted for the National Socialist German Workers Party (aka NSDAP, Nazis) in 1933. The legitimacy of those elections and the leadership of the subsequent victor was recognised worldwide. Hell, some football teams even made Nazi salutes in 1936. It was not a good idea, indeed it ended rather badly for all concerned. The Egyptian elections were the same, the victor of those elections has a broadly similar world view to the Nazis and the Islamist/Nazi ideologies (around Jews, gay people etc) are almost indistinguishable.

You can despise Nazis without being racist against white people or being Teutophobic. Indeed, despising Nazis is perfectly rational and healthy.

Likewise, you can oppose Islamists (like Mr. Halawa) without being racist against brown people or being 'Islamophobic'. As with Naziism, there are good reasons to despise Islamists, and they're the same reasons.

323

WarZ wrote: »

Funny how things change huh?

When that teenager went over the wide consensus in the western media was that Mubarak was a brutal dictator and that popular elections should bring whatever party wins to power. Halawi was a vocal proponent of that.

Now this same teenager is vilified for supporting the party that at the time the majority of Egyptians supported and eventually world leaders supported.

Is Halawi or indeed the majority of the Egyptian population who voted for them responsible for Morsi completely doing a 360 on all his promises?

At the end of the day, a military junta has seized power. The trials are completely unjust. He's an Irish citizen whether some here like it or not. This thread has turned into a cess pool full of hatred from a lot of posters who clearly have massive personal issues to invoke such hatred towards other individuals because of their religion or skin colour (that is not targeted at the poster I quoted by the way)

Funny indeed, how this guy is continuously referred to as a teenager, as if he is a child. In most of the world, even Ireland I believe, he's of an age to be treated as an adult.

So. Regardless of skin color, religion, being an Irish citizen or not, he's therefore responsibility for his own actions.

Rather than wasting consular time on this guy just because he holds an Irish passport. Think it time Ireland should be considering legislation similar to what Denmark is introducing, Denmark to get tough on foreign fighters' 'treason'

darkpagandeath

323 wrote: »

Funny indeed, how this guy is continuously referred to as a teenager, as if he is a child. In most of the world, even Ireland I believe, he's of an age to be treated as an adult.

So. Regardless of skin color, religion, being an Irish citizen or not, he's therefore responsibility for his own actions.

Rather than wasting consular time on this guy just because he holds an Irish passport. Think it time Ireland should be considering legislation similar to what Denmark is introducing, Denmark to get tough on foreign fighters' 'treason'

Apparently he is very naive and stupid, even though being an Engineering student.

WarZ

Maybe boards.ie should close this thread, there are posters literally cheerleading the execution of a 19 year old Irish citizen. It's a bit of a sick thread and reflects on the boards.ie community very badly in my opinion.

It's only a matter of time before major media outlets pick up on this thread with posters calling for his execution, expressing their sadness he called off his hunger strike and is still alive and labelling Ibrahim and his family everything from being scum to terrorists etc.

darkpagandeath

WarZ wrote: »

Maybe boards.ie should close this thread, there are posters literally cheerleading the execution of a 19 year old Irish citizen. It's a bit of a sick thread and reflects on the boards.ie community very badly in my opinion.

It's only a matter of time before major media outlets pick up on this thread with posters calling for his execution, expressing their sadness he called off his hunger strike and is still alive and labelling Ibrahim and his family everything from being scum to terrorists etc.

Not going to happen is that back seat modding ? And link to a poster who has said anything near what one has claimed. Major media would do well to look at this thread as they seem to have zero clue about what the trip was actually about.

WarZ

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Not going to happen is that back seat modding ? And link to a poster who has said anything near what one has claimed. Major media would do well to look at this thread as they seem to have zero clue about what the trip was actually about.

There is plenty of them in the last 3 pages even. I am not going to waste a minute doing anything for the likes of you.

darkpagandeath

WarZ wrote: »

There is plenty of them in the last 3 pages even. I am not going to waste a minute doing anything for the likes of you.

What's that supposed to mean ?

hatrickpatrick

WarZ wrote: »

Maybe boards.ie should close this thread, there are posters literally cheerleading the execution of a 19 year old Irish citizen. It's a bit of a sick thread and reflects on the boards.ie community very badly in my opinion.

It's only a matter of time before major media outlets pick up on this thread with posters calling for his execution, expressing their sadness he called off his hunger strike and is still alive and labelling Ibrahim and his family everything from being scum to terrorists etc.

And that's a good thing. If there's no opportunity to debate people with opposing views, there's never a possibility of either understanding them or changing them.

This is why I generally oppose moderation on controversy or "I think we'll leave it there" grounds. Debates need to be had.

In this case, I'm trying to understand how anyone can side with a military dictatorship which has banned political parties in a manner which the Western world has long recognised as unacceptably repressive, and denied the right to free assembly and protest which the Western world has long recognised as a fundamental human right.

This guy went over there to fight for ideals which Europe and the United States purport to support in repressed nations. For that reason alone we should be opposing his execution or conviction.

Would anyone who is argue against him care to explain exactly what they believe he has done wrong? Is the right to protest not a fundamental human right?

WarZ

darkpagandeath wrote: »

What's that supposed to mean ?

Oh aren't you very smart... :rolleyes:

WarZ

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

And that's a good thing. If there's no opportunity to debate people with opposing views, there's never a possibility of either understanding them or changing them.

This is why I generally oppose moderation on controversy or "I think we'll leave it there" grounds. Debates need to be had.

In this case, I'm trying to understand how anyone can side with a military dictatorship which has banned political parties in a manner which the Western world has long recognised as unacceptably repressive, and denied the right to free assembly and protest which the Western world has long recognised as a fundamental human right.

This guy went over there to fight for ideals which Europe and the United States purport to support in repressed nations. For that reason alone we should be opposing his execution or conviction.

Would anyone who is argue against him care to explain exactly what they believe he has done wrong? Is the right to protest not a fundamental human right?

It's more just the fact that some of the comments it has been attracting are absolutely disgusting and really reflect badly on the boards.ie community.

darkpagandeath

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

And that's a good thing. If there's no opportunity to debate people with opposing views, there's never a possibility of either understanding them or changing them.

This is why I generally oppose moderation on controversy or "I think we'll leave it there" grounds. Debates need to be had.

In this case, I'm trying to understand how anyone can side with a military dictatorship which has banned political parties in a manner which the Western world has long recognised as unacceptably repressive, and denied the right to free assembly and protest which the Western world has long recognised as a fundamental human right.

This guy went over there to fight for ideals which Europe and the United States purport to support in repressed nations. For that reason alone we should be opposing his execution or conviction.

Would anyone who is argue against him care to explain exactly what they believe he has done wrong? Is the right to protest not a fundamental human right?

None of the going over to protest is true apparently they were on holiday. Protest are fine, Governments tend to not like the whole burning buildings down killing police and military personnel funny that. Snipers were shooting off the top of the building they were caught in. Inciting violence is generally frowned on here as well.

darkpagandeath

WarZ wrote: »

It's more just the fact that some of the comments it has been attracting are absolutely disgusting and really reflect badly on the boards.ie community.

Then one will have no problem quoting them.

WarZ

Citizen2011 wrote: »

I thought the little hero was on hunger strike. How come he's still alive.

Just one page back.

darkpagandeath

WarZ wrote: »

Just one page back.

Then link.