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Irish Teen Fears Execution in Egypt

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    #362
    Grand Moff Tarkin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 862 ✭✭✭Grand Moff Tarkin


    So an Irish hothead went out looking for trouble and the local police force locked him up and now he is looking to get back to Ireland after his taste of the real world turned sour.

    Is that about right?


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    #363
    smurfjed
    Registered Users Posts: 10,126 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    Taken from WIKI.....Egypt actively practises capital punishment. Egypt’s authorities do not release figures on death sentences and executions, despite repeated requests over the years by human rights organisations. The United Nations human rights office and various NGOs expressed "deep alarm" after an Egyptian Minya Criminal Court sentenced 529 people to death in a single hearing on 25 March 2014. Sentenced supporters of former President Mohamed Morsi will be executed for their alleged role in violence following his ousting in July 2013. The judgment was condemned as a violation of international law. By May 2014, approximately 16,000 people (and as high as more than 40,000 by one independent count), mostly Brotherhood members or supporters, have been imprisoned after the coup after the Muslim Brotherhood was labeled as terrorist organization by the post-coup interim Egyptian government.

    This guy is a little pawn in a big nasty game, unfortunately the question has to be asked, why did the family allow a 17 year old go there in the first place, generally people on annual vacations do not publicly address crowds of protestors, so its extremely difficult to state that they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    Do you really think that the Irish government can fight for the release of someone considered a supporter of a "terrorist organisation"? (As labelled by the Egyptian government)


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    #364
    Grand Moff Tarkin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 862 ✭✭✭Grand Moff Tarkin


    He made his bed.........


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    #365
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,204 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    +1
    Its so far away from Kansas its not funny Toto. Does Anyone know what Sharia Law is? Or What happened with The East London Mosque? When you are out there (ie Turkey and beyond). You WILL obey their law and you WILL respect their traditions and you WILL be observant. Woe betide you if the religious police get you, you will be crying for the Military police. Of course the DoFA dont want to ruffle feathers even if it was a more genuine case. Too much trade and the world runs on cheap oil.

    If you want to go outside the EU and kick up a fuss go ahead, see what the Irish Government did for Brian Keenan,..... on reflection I am not so sure he was that much of a boy scout either.

    Those countries take their stupid laws seriously. You can be jailed for tweeting something that's offensive over there.

    Wait, sorry, that's the UK I'm thinking of.


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    #366
    Grand Moff Tarkin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 862 ✭✭✭Grand Moff Tarkin


    Nodin wrote: »
    They don't have religious police in most of the middle east, the exceptions being Iran and Saudi afaik.

    Back that up with a link mate.


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    #367
    DarkyHughes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭DarkyHughes


    Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »
    So an Irish hothead went out looking for trouble and the local police force locked him up and now he is looking to get back to Ireland after his taste of the real world turned sour.

    Is that about right?

    Even if it was it still wouldn't warrant him be executed ffs.


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    #368
    smurfjed
    Registered Users Posts: 10,126 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    Like these prosecuters in the US after a adult conviction for a minor

    Born 20 rajab 1416. Arrested 10. Shawwal 1434, so while he may be considered a minor in Ireland, in the islamic calendar he was 18 and no longer a minor.


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    #369
    Smiles35
    Registered Users Posts: 1,749 ✭✭✭Smiles35


    smurfjed wrote: »
    Born 20 rajab 1416. Arrested 10. Shawwal 1434, so while he may be considered a minor in Ireland, in the islamic calendar he was 18 and no longer a minor.

    And what was the crime again?


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    #370
    smurfjed
    Registered Users Posts: 10,126 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    The charges he faces may include burning a police station, being a member of a terrorist organisation, spying for the Irish, and killing protesters amongst twelve other unspecified charges. Under Egyptian legislation, it is highly likely these charges will carry a death sentence.

    The whole concept of a court case for 493 defendants is ludicrous, but its their system and their rules.


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    #371
    Smiles35
    Registered Users Posts: 1,749 ✭✭✭Smiles35


    smurfjed wrote: »
    The whole concept of a court case for 493 defendants is ludicrous, but its their system and their rules.

    No. The whole concept of you actually looking at the laws in a civil war is the most funny thing i've ever seen on boards. Take me back to old Judea why dont ya, Jesus making trouble is he?


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    #372
    Grand Moff Tarkin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 862 ✭✭✭Grand Moff Tarkin


    DarkyHughes wrote: »
    Even if it was it still wouldn't warrant him be executed ffs.

    If you go looking for trouble in another country chances are you will find their rules a bit more harsh than here.

    He would have been better off staying here and having a few cans of Dutch Gold with his mates and trying to get his leg over instead of thinking. He was a freedom fighter for a nation.


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    #373
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    Nodin wrote: »
    They don't have religious police in most of the middle east, the exceptions being Iran and Saudi afaik.

    Every State in the World except Sealand have a special police force that answer to noone except the top man. Doesnt matter if you call them Intelligence service, interior ministry, religious police, or elite police they all have similar methods and and have Carte Blanche to do what ever they need to to get results. Some are more visible than others, but they all exist in some form or other.


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    #374
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Every State in the World except Sealand have a special police force that answer to noone except the top man.
    .
    What are they called in Ireland, Germany and America respectively?
    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Doesnt matter if you call them Intelligence service, interior ministry, religious police, or elite police they all have similar methods and and have Carte Blanche to do what ever they need to to get results. Some are more visible than others, but they all exist in some form or other.

    Whats that creaking I hear? Is it the sound of goalposts being slowly moved~?


    Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi, Gaza
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_religious_police


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    #375
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    Ireland G1 and G2 (these two dont screw up so often so you dont hear about them so often)
    Germany Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution (BfV): Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz, domestic intelligence
    America: Dept of homeland Security. Federal Bureau of Investigations

    If they employ torture to get results.... then they are all similar.


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    #376
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Nodin wrote: »
    What are they called in Ireland, Germany and America respectively?


    Whats that creaking I hear? Is it the sound of goalposts being slowly moved~?


    Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi, Gaza
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_religious_police

    It's the security services.......

    Garda C3

    MI5

    BND


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    #377
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Ireland G1 and G2 (these two dont screw up so often so you dont hear about them so often)
    Germany Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution (BfV): Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz, domestic intelligence
    America: Dept of homeland Security. Federal Bureau of Investigations

    If they employ torture to get results.... then they are all similar.

    G2 are intelligence gatherers - they are not security


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    #378
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Ireland G1 and G2 (these two dont screw up so often so you dont hear about them so often)
    Germany Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution (BfV): Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz, domestic intelligence
    America: Dept of homeland Security. Federal Bureau of Investigations

    If they employ torture to get results.... then they are all similar.

    ........and these only answer to the "top man"? Fascinating captain.

    They aren't religious police though and I'm fairly sure Ireland, Germany and America don't fall under the heading "turkey and beyond"


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    #379
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    Nodin wrote: »
    ........and these only answer to the "top man"? Fascinating captain.

    They aren't religious police though and I'm fairly sure Ireland, Germany and America don't fall under the heading "turkey and beyond"

    Top Man: Minister of Justice, Sec of Home office, country changes the name changes the role stays the same.

    You are also quoting me out of context All states have agencies to get stuff done.

    Still doesnt change that some Egyptian has turned up in Egypt caused a ruckus and thought the Irish Passport will save him from the Egyptian Justice system. No Irish ambassador worth his salt is going to do something to upset a beef deal or to call in favour when he needs a missing individual found or a body repatriated for some clown who traveled against advice of DoFA to go to a place and participate in Civil unrest.

    It still fascinates me what people expect the local embassy in Cairo to do?


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    #380
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Top Man: Minister of Justice, Sec of Home office, country changes the name changes the role stays the same.

    You are also quoting me out of context All states have agencies to get stuff done.

    Still doesnt change that some Egyptian has turned up in Egypt caused a ruckus and thought the Irish Passport will save him from the Egyptian Justice system. No Irish ambassador worth his salt is going to do something to upset a beef deal or to call in favour when he needs a missing individual found or a body repatriated for some clown who traveled against advice of DoFA to go to a place and participate in Civil unrest.

    It still fascinates me what people expect the local embassy in Cairo to do?

    He has dual nationality.


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    #381
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Nodin wrote: »
    He has dual nationality.

    Yes, and as already explained Under international law, a State may not give consular assistance to one of its nationals if he or she is in a country whose citizenship that person also holds.

    And despite this the Irish ambassador still managed to negotiate a deal to get him out which he rejected.

    Either he's stupid, stubborn or bring manipulated - any way you look at it, he decided to play with the big boys, then double up his bet - now he'd like his adopted country to pull his nuts out of the fire.......again.


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    #382
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Yes, and as already explained Under international law, a State may not give consular assistance to one of its nationals if he or she is in a country whose citizenship that person also holds.

    And despite this the Irish ambassador still managed to negotiate a deal to get him out which he rejected.

    Either he's stupid, stubborn or bring manipulated - any way you look at it, he decided to play with the big boys, then double up his bet - now he'd like his adopted country to pull his nuts out of the fire.......again.


    Course he does. I doubt he's spending time in a 5 star hotel.


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    #383
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    Nodin wrote: »
    He has dual nationality.

    ....and you expect the DoFA to do what? Send in Rangers? Stop beef sales? With draw food sales? Get Romano Prodi to withdraw EU aid to Egypt? Ever see a mouse rape an elephant? ....... (Big secret) Nobody cares ..... bigger deals are going on and and the Irish government wont do any more than say "We are concerned" ...... had this young man heeded the warning given him he would be nice and safe at home with a bacon butty and a slab of Dutch Gold like his peers, in college...oh wait ... he is interred in Cairo with a shower of criminals for doing stuff that was none of his business.

    Dual Citizenship only works when it is in both countries interest... this chump is going to be very lucky to get out alive in a few years, if that wound doesnt get infected.


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    #384
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    ....and you expect the DoFA to do what? Send in Rangers? Stop beef sales? With draw food sales? Get Romano Prodi to withdraw EU aid to Egypt? Ever see a mouse rape an elephant? ....... (Big secret) Nobody cares ..... bigger deals are going on and and the Irish government wont do any more than say "We are concerned" ...... had this young man heeded the warning given him he would be nice and safe at home with a bacon butty and a slab of Dutch Gold like his peers, in college...oh wait ... he is interred in Cairo with a shower of criminals for doing stuff that was none of his business.

    Dual Citizenship only works when it is in both countries interest... this chump is going to be very lucky to get out alive in a few years, if that wound doesnt get infected.


    Aren't you the charmer.


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    #385
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Nodin wrote: »
    Course he does. I doubt he's spending time in a 5 star hotel.

    Well given the ambassador had it arranged for him to get out, what next - send in the Rangers?

    I doubt he's spending time in a 5 star hotel either, but it's not like he was denied the opportunity to get out.

    Is there any indication that if yet another deal can be reached to extract him, that he'll actually come out?


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    #386
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Well given the ambassador had it arranged for him to get out, what next - send in the Rangers?

    I doubt he's spending time in a 5 star hotel either, but it's not like he was denied the opportunity to get out.

    Is there any indication that if yet another deal can be reached to extract him, that he'll actually come out?

    I've no idea.


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    #387
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    Jawgap wrote: »
    And despite this the Irish ambassador still managed to negotiate a deal to get him out which he rejected.

    Either he's stupid, stubborn or bring manipulated - any way you look at it, he decided to play with the big boys, then double up his bet - now he'd like his adopted country to pull his nuts out of the fire.......again.

    Well you can only make a mug of "your state and protector" so many times. I wonder if his 70 virigins are all clones of Grahame Norton ......

    Moral of the Story ... dont die a Martyr .... Its not all it hyped up to be


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    #388
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Nodin wrote: »
    I've no idea.

    Well then why should the country expend diplomatic resources on him? We've a finite amount of diplomats - maybe they should be deployed were the time will likely not be wasted.


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    #389
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Well then why should the country expend diplomatic resources on him? We've a finite amount of diplomats - maybe they should be deployed were the time will likely not be wasted.


    I would imagine that they would check whether or not he would accept a deal first......


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    #390
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Well you can only make a mug of "your state and protector" so many times. I wonder if his 70 virigins are all clones of Grahame Norton ......

    Moral of the Story ... dont die a Martyr .... Its not all it hyped up to be

    I think the moral is "once you've made your point, leave" :)


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    #391
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Nodin wrote: »
    I would imagine that they would check whether or not he would accept a deal first......

    Well thus far he seems to have been immune to their assistance and advice, including.......

    We continue to advise Irish citizens who are currently in Egypt to exercise caution, to avoid all protests and demonstrations and to monitor this travel advice and the local media for updates on the situation. Irish citizens resident in Egypt are requested to make sure that they have registered all their contact details with the Embassy, especially landline telephone numbers.


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