Irish Teen Fears Execution in Egypt

end of the road

lertsnim wrote: »

He's only Irish when he finds himself in trouble.

no, he is irish as he is irish.

lertsnim wrote: »

He wanted to go playing in Egypt and was caught.

many people go on holiday to countries with dubious reputations.

lertsnim wrote: »

He should suffer the consequences like the other Egyptians.

so he should be slaughtered for protesting? grand so. i suppose the government here should start slaughtering when people dare to protest against something or is that only for those of a different skin colour? so in effect, no he shouldn't suffer any consiquenses as he did nothing.

end of the road

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

He was associated with The Muslim Brotherhood, I think you will find he will have very little support if/when he comes back here.

who cares. he doesn't need support, he needs to get home to ireland as he is irish and was born here.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

We don't want to become another Britain which has major problems with radical Muslims.

i don't care. he is irish end of discussion. britain has problems with radical muslims of its own making

SwiftJustice

end of the road wrote: »

so he should be slaughtered for protesting? grand so. i suppose the government here should start slaughtering when people dare to protest against something or is that only for those of a different skin colour? so in effect, no he shouldn't suffer any consiquenses as he did nothing.

Why are you hell bent on bringing race into this thread.

Putinovsky

SwiftJustice wrote: »

Why are you hell bent on bringing race into this thread.

Well personally I see no other reason why someone would suggest that someone who is born in Ireland and has lived here all his life is not actually Irish.

Galwayguy35

end of the road wrote: »

who cares. he doesn't need support, he needs to get home to ireland as he is irish and was born here.



i don't care. he is irish end of discussion. britain has problems with radical muslims of its own making

You do realise who The Muslim Brotherhood are, Yes?

end of the road

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

You do realise who The Muslim Brotherhood are, Yes?

oh yes. still doesn't change the fact he is irish though

SwiftJustice

end of the road wrote: »

oh yes. still doesn't change the fact he is irish though

FFS you have literately nothing to add except this stupid point that NOBODY is disputing. He has 2 passports and unfortunately for him he is going to be tried as an Egyptian.

Jawgap

end of the road wrote: »

who cares. he doesn't need support, he needs to get home to ireland as he is irish and was born here.



i don't care. he is irish end of discussion. britain has problems with radical muslims of its own making

Is there any reason why posters highlighting his plight were originally yellow and black, the colours associated with the Muslim Brotherhood and the R4BIA gesture??

The posters with the tricolour seem only to be a recent phenomenon.

lertsnim

Putinovsky wrote: »

How is he not Irish?

Egyptian passport. You can't have it both ways.

lertsnim

SwiftJustice wrote: »

Why are you hell bent on bringing race into this thread.

It's what happens when there is no other argument.

end of the road

lertsnim wrote: »

Egyptian passport. You can't have it both ways.

you can, and this family do. but the chap was born in ireland so he is more irish then egyptian.

R P McMurphy

lertsnim wrote: »

Egyptian passport. You can't have it both ways.

I think you will find plenty of Irish people with dual nationality so in effect you can have it both ways. It is quite simple he is an Irish person, born and raised here but with Egyptian heritage and dual nationality. Is quite common for a lot of second generation Irish born and raised in England to have a close identity with ireland so is no great mystery

Jawgap

end of the road wrote: »

you can, and this family do. but the chap was born in ireland so he is more irish then egyption.

No you can't - why are people finding it so difficult to understand that if you have dual Irish and Egyptian citizenship, you cannot, strictly speaking, avail of Irish consular assistance in Egypt??

https://www.dfa.ie/travel/assistance-abroad/arrested-or-detained-abroad/

Dual citizens
While consular assistance may be provided to dual nationals, the right of an Irish dual national to receive consular assistance from our Missions is effectively determined by the attitude of the host country in circumstances where the Irish citizen is detained either in the country of their other nationality, or is travelling on the passport of another country. Under International law, countries are not obliged to legally recognise dual citizenship/nationality, therefore, Irish citizens should be aware that travelling or visiting the country of their other citizenship may have implications for them and also they may be subject to laws which apply only to citizens of that country.

And on top of that you cannot, strictly speaking, look for irish consular assistance unless you entered the country in question on your Irish passport....

skooterblue2

Here is a bit of news for ye. He is not up on criminal charges. He is up on military charges in front of an Military court.
The Judge will be a military officer and he will not be tried as a citizen but as a combatant. It is never good to be up in front of court but military courts are a different matter. I am not so sure politicians/diplomats/civil servants can interfere with the working of a military court. The Judge is not going to look kindly on his casualties, in fact he is going to be fairly peeved about it. The Judge isn't going to care whether he has an Egyptian, Irish, or even a Swiss Passport. If a Military Policeman/Intelligence Officer says he was involved then the Judge will take it as gospel. You have to remember he is not in the EU and he cant claim all his "Irish" privillages.

Oh and for all those patrons saying how "40 shades of green" he is ? The Muslim brotherhood are ISIS and once the get a proper foothold with a stable government, They are going to start training foot soldiers on the EU's door step. for all those cheering him on .... When ISIS do get a foot hold state he is going to want to come back to all us Infidels, who drink alcohol, eat Pork and dont take the Koran seriously and cut us like stuck pigs. Please find Kalid or Terry Kelly for reference.

As for consular assistance ... I say we send him a care package of 4 liters of TK red lemonade, a box of Tayto crisps and some Chef Tomato sauce.... oh and a pack of Denny rashers every Irish person I know loved a bit of the Sliciní Bagun. Make him feel proper at home in the Cario Hilton.

skooterblue2

Putinovsky wrote: »

Well personally I see no other reason why someone would suggest that someone who is born in Ireland and has lived here all his life is not actually Irish.

Because he is a Langer!! He travel out of "his country" to a country which the DoFA give regular warnings about. Hooked up with the muslim brotherhood (these are the lads linked to ISIS/ Al Queeda as opposed to the Muslim boys Choir), got involved in a civil uprising and if he gets back he will most likely want to spread his gospel of "submission" to all the heretics in Ireland.

If you did that in the States, left the country and joined an opposing force and started targeting their allies. Supposing they were tolerant enough to bring you home ...... they would hold you in Guantanamo bay for a few years and give you a slow painful death.

This guy is going to get a centre page spread in Muslim Martyrs Monthly.

Nodin

skooterblue2 wrote: »

..............
As for consular assistance ... I say we send him a care package of 4 liters of TK red lemonade, a box of Tayto crisps and some Chef Tomato sauce.... oh and a pack of Denny rashers every Irish person I know loved a bit of the Sliciní Bagun. Make him feel proper at home in the Cario Hilton.

So you're saying you can't be Irish and muslim?

LuckyLloyd

A dual Irish / Egyptian citizen went to Egypt and engaged in anti government activities where he could be tried as an adult. The Irish Ambassador secured a deal that could have allowed him passage home on the strength of his Irish passport which he refused. He is bring held and could face military trial for the anti government activities he was engaged in.

That the story? What am I missing? Because in order to have sympathy for this kid I'd need to be missing something.

The Irish passport or Irish citizenship is not a license to engage in crime or anti government activities overseas imo.

skooterblue2

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The Irish passport or Irish citizenship is not a license to engage in crime or anti government activities overseas imo.

What about the next time we need the Irish Ambassador to do a deal for us? We have a case of child kidnapping or we need a body returned to Ireland, renewing a import/export license, or keep in mind where oil travels through? This "mucky puppy" has no business using his passport in a civil war. Do you think if the Muslim Brotherhood came to power it would be working in Irelands interest? Do you think they would be striving to get us cheaper oil?

This guy wants to be a martyr and get out of jail, but has refused help. This is really the Egyptian Military problem and best let them sort it out. Once you pick up a rifle and/or put on a uniform in anger you are getting into things that are well beyond your control.

skooterblue2

Nodin wrote: »

So you're saying you can't be Irish and muslim?

Can you not see the conflict of interest?
http://www.sundayworld.com/top-stories/news/expect-more-heads

Fair Question Nodin? do you have a personal interest here or are you a Muslim? How far do you think we should go sort this problem out?

Nodin

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Can you not see the conflict of interest?
http://www.sundayworld.com/top-stories/news/expect-more-heads

That presumes muslim = jihadist.

Again - are you saying its impossible to be muslim and irish?

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Fair Question Nodin? do you have a personal interest here or are you a Muslim? How far do you think we should go sort this problem out?

What problem are you referring to.

josip

I have a proposal to save everyone a lot of time, having to repeat posts and cross-thank each other's posts ad infinitum, ad nauseum .

There are 2 camps. The pro-theLad camp is Nodin, Putinovsky and End of The Road. The other camp (anti/ambivalent) is everyone else. Regardless of how many posts there are, it's obvious nobody is going to change fom one camp to another at this stage.

Anyone else want to declare themselves in the pro camp and we can all get back to work happy that everything's been sorted out?

denhaagenite

Nodin wrote: »

So you're saying you can't be Irish and muslim?

I think he's saying being Irish and in the Muslim Brotherhood might pose problems.

Jawgap

josip wrote: »

I have a proposal to save everyone a lot of time, having to repeat posts and cross-thank each other's posts ad infinitum, ad nauseum .

There are 2 camps. The pro-theLad camp is Nodin, Putinovsky and End of The Road. The other camp (anti/ambivalent) is everyone else. Regardless of how many posts there are, it's obvious nobody is going to change fom one camp to another at this stage.

Anyone else want to declare themselves in the pro camp and we can all get back to work happy that everything's been sorted out?

I'd consider myself in the pro-lad camp - I genuinely hope he makes it safely home soon to his family (I'm assuming he regards here as home as it seems most of his immediate family are here).

The reason I'm posing questions is because I don't like being taken for a mug - the story being thrown about is that he went out there for a holiday to see some of his extended family then got swept up in the protests like he was some kind of innocent abroad. I'm sorry, but that story doesn't stack up.

I'd prefer if his supporters came out and were honest with us. I don't believe he traveled on his Irish passport (in other words as an Irish citizen and therefore entitled to consular assistance) for a simple family holiday. I believe he traveled with the intention of joining in the protests and that he stayed to make a political point.

I also find it very disingenuous the way the campaign to highlight his plight have sought to manipulate imagery to persuade us he's just a decent lad (which I'm sure he is) who got caught up in events. I find the shift from the use of yellow and black imagery on posters and the photo of him in what looks like some kind of dish-dash to photos of him in more 'western' clothing super-imposed on the tricolour to be cynical.

If his supporters want to garner further support, they should do people the courtesy of being honest with them.

On that point, unless there's some more sensible arguments I think I'll remove myself from this thread.

skooterblue2

Nodin wrote: »

That presumes muslim = jihadist.

Again - are you saying its impossible to be muslim and irish?


What problem are you referring to.

Better question: Is it possible to be Irish and Muslim?
Which comes first Irish law of the Land or Sharia law?

I dont think the two are compatible. There have been suggestion of amending English law to accommodate elements of Sharia law. The Judiciary would not entertain it and said it was completely unworkable.

I think it is possible to Catholic and Irish, Church of Ireland, Presbyterian, Buddist, seventh day reformist church, even Opus dei (not a fan btw) and still be an Irish citizen. I believe when they put the interest of their religion over the security of the State and interfere with the law of the land and the peace of their neighbourhood. hell it is possible to be Athiest and Irish and I have no problem with that.

I am in favour of dual nationalities. I have many friends who claim both nationalities. It has never come up in conversation, "where is your loyalty?". It facilitates trade, art, expression of ideas, peace and tourism. It was not intended to be abused to travel to trouble hot spots with the intent of taking arms and then when trouble arose get the Irish ambassador to sort it out. It cant work like that.

The problem I am referring to is: A man traveled to a country outside the EU jurisdiction, at great cost, despite constant warnings from the DoFA. Entered a country and made contact with a paramilitary group, was involved in a riot where people were injured and killed including security officers. he was caught in a stand off and he claimed Irish nationality. A deal was brokered for him to return to Ireland and he declined. He is being processed by the military institutiion, not the civilian court. Now what does he was us to do?
That is the Problem.

The Irish passport is a privilege and as one from a neutral country. You cannot act like a "mucky puppy" and then expect the privilege of the full cooperation of the DoFA, to smooth things over.

You also need to Answer my Question @Nodin, Are you a muslim? Were your parents born here? suppose Ireland were to send troops to Syria on a NATO peace enforcing mission where would your loyalities be? Would you serve in the Irish Police or defense forces if called to do so? have you ever attended the muslim center at Clonskeagh?

I think you are a second generation Muslim and aren't that far removed from the situation. Other than waving a jaded Irish passport this argument hasn't got a hope, he was caught red handed. This kid might be better off writing to Kalid Kelly to get tips on how to survive the Cairo Sheraton.

I think we are getting closer to the truth now

skooterblue2

Jawgap wrote: »

The reason I'm posing questions is because I don't like being taken for a mug - the story being thrown about is that he went out there for a holiday to see some of his extended family then got swept up in the protests like he was some kind of innocent abroad. I'm sorry, but that story doesn't stack up.

..... and that is the last time Ireland sends a team to the world sand castle building championships in Egypt.

AlekSmart

skooterblue2 wrote: »

What about the next time we need the Irish Ambassador to do a deal for us? We have a case of child kidnapping or we need a body returned to Ireland, renewing a import/export license, or keep in mind where oil travels through? This "mucky puppy" has no business using his passport in a civil war. Do you think if the Muslim Brotherhood came to power it would be working in Irelands interest? Do you think they would be striving to get us cheaper oil?

The point regarding Child kidnapping/repatriations is one I had'nt picked up on,but is a very valid one.

Over the years we have read and heard of incidents where marriages/relationships broke down and one of the partners absconds from the State with the Children.

This usually results in media appeals and pleas to the absconder to return the Child/ren so as to allow Irish family law to decide the custody issue.

There can often be significant differences in attitude to these familial issues,which Ireland Consular Services are often best placed to negotiate around,IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE CHILD.

I would heartily agree,that this young mans self-serving,even cynical,attempts to manipulate his country's Consular Representatives could well cause significant problems for many innocent Irish parents into the future.

Grand Moff Tarkin

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Better question: Is it possible to be Irish and Muslim?
Which comes first Irish law of the Land or Sharia law?

I dont think the two are compatible. There have been suggestion of amending English law to accommodate elements of Sharia law. The Judiciary would not entertain it and said it was completely unworkable.

I think it is possible to Catholic and Irish, Church of Ireland, Presbyterian, Buddist, seventh day reformist church, even Opus dei (not a fan btw) and still be an Irish citizen. I believe when they put the interest of their religion over the security of the State and interfere with the law of the land and the peace of their neighbourhood. hell it is possible to be Athiest and Irish and I have no problem with that.

I am in favour of dual nationalities. I have many friends who claim both nationalities. It has never come up in conversation, "where is your loyalty?". It facilitates trade, art, expression of ideas, peace and tourism. It was not intended to be abused to travel to trouble hot spots with the intent of taking arms and then when trouble arose get the Irish ambassador to sort it out. It cant work like that.

The problem I am referring to is: A man traveled to a country outside the EU jurisdiction, at great cost, despite constant warnings from the DoFA. Entered a country and made contact with a paramilitary group, was involved in a riot where people were injured and killed including security officers. he was caught in a stand off and he claimed Irish nationality. A deal was brokered for him to return to Ireland and he declined. He is being processed by the military institutiion, not the civilian court. Now what does he was us to do?
That is the Problem.

The Irish passport is a privilege and as one from a neutral country. You cannot act like a "mucky puppy" and then expect the privilege of the full cooperation of the DoFA, to smooth things over.

You also need to Answer my Question @Nodin, Are you a muslim? Were your parents born here? suppose Ireland were to send troops to Syria on a NATO peace enforcing mission where would your loyalities be? Would you serve in the Irish Police or defense forces if called to do so? have you ever attended the muslim center at Clonskeagh?

I think you are a second generation Muslim and aren't that far removed from the situation. Other than waving a jaded Irish passport this argument hasn't got a hope, he was caught red handed. This kid might be better off writing to Kalid Kelly to get tips on how to survive the Cairo Sheraton.

I think we are getting closer to the truth now

Good luck with getting an answer.

wendell borton

We should learn our lessons from history. Dev got a reprieve due to his dual citizenship and look at all the trouble he caused. ; ).

skooterblue2

@Nodin, supposing you are an Irish passport holder?

Hypothetically, an American is flying on an Aer Lingus flight, JFK to Heathrow. Gets on the plane a little tipsy. Get a bit more drunk, asks for more drink and get reused and abuses the air hostesses? Then Starts a row with some one else and the Pilot says I am putting the plane down in Shannon. The Guards come, Arrest the individual involved and take statements. This is in the news? People get held up, Waste of fuel and time? Money lost with airplane down time?

Then in walks a US Senator from some where and clearly this is all a misunderstanding. Good Family man been under a lot of stress and mixed up his meds with his drink? We are going to send him to rehab and a big ole donation to the Judges poor box. All sorted.

Tell me what would your judgement of that situation be? String up the business man right? Make an example of him?

LuckyLloyd

Strong posting from skooterblue here