Irish Teen Fears Execution in Egypt

Wright

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

just for old times sake why not explain it again for stupid old me. why would the irish government detain him for crimes committed abroad?

An Irish citizen suspected of engaging in activities that could he construed as rendering him a terror threat should be detained upon arrival, questioned, if they can make something stick, arrange a court date, if not, monitor him heavily, possibly attempt to bar internet usage, for all good that would do.

There's a reason why a Middle Eastern state has been refused entry into the E.U., and that is the condition of their prisons and their attitude towards torture. We are in the E.U. We should do everything in our power to prevent this happening to an E.U. citizen. He allegedly doesn't want to in this case, so fine. Don't agree? Out with ye; head to America or something, down south. Your beliefs will be incredibly popular there

ohnonotgmail

Wright wrote: »

An Irish citizen suspected of engaging in activities that could he construed as rendering him a terror threat should be detained upon arrival, questioned, if they can make something stick, arrange a court date, if not, monitor him heavily, possibly attempt to bar internet usage, for all good that would do.

should he not first be tried in the country he has committed a crime?

Wright

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

should he not first be tried in the country he has committed a crime?

If the judgement was likely to not involve hanging or decapitation or 300 years in jail, sure. Again, why do I have to say this again, why is this not getting through your skull, if this had happened in Sweden or somewhere there'd be no story, no thread. His room would be bigger than mine, he'd have a flat screen and a full bookshelf all to himself. What about this basic concept is just out of your bloody reach. IT IS WHERE HE IS LOCATED THAT IS THE ISSUE.

Means Of Escape

Wright wrote: »

An Irish citizen is being held in Egypt.

No an Egyptian who also holds an Irish passport is being held in Egypt

ohnonotgmail

Wright wrote: »

If the judgement was likely to not involve hanging or decapitation or 300 years in jail, sure. Again, why do I have to say this again, why is this not getting through your skull, if this had happened in Sweden or somewhere there'd be no story, no thread. His room would be bigger than mine, he'd have a flat screen and a full bookshelf all to himself. What about this basic concept is just out of your bloody reach. IT IS WHERE HE IS LOCATED THAT IS THE ISSUE.

the WHERE of the situation is entirely down to him. the egyptian government is recognised by our government. they have a functioning judicial system. and there is no likelihood of hanging or decapitation or 300 years in jail. Try and inform yourself before you spout nonsense.

Means Of Escape

Wright wrote: »

Not sure you understand what defamation means.

Certain of its meaning

LizT

Mod

Wright has been infracted and asked not to contribute to this thread again.

The rest of ye, please report any problem posts and if I see any personal abuse or uncivil posting, you'll get the same treatment.

old_aussie

Even if Egypt sentences him to hang, what's Ireland going to do?

Smiles35

Means Of Escape wrote: »

No an Egyptian who also holds an Irish passport is being held in Egypt

Yeah. We care what your definition of an Irish citizen is.

ohnonotgmail

old_aussie wrote: »

Even if Egypt sentences him to hang, what's Ireland going to do?

he is not facing the death penalty.

AlekSmart

Wright wrote: »

If the judgement was likely to not involve hanging or decapitation or 300 years in jail, sure. Again, why do I have to say this again, why is this not getting through your skull, if this had happened in Sweden or somewhere there'd be no story, no thread. His room would be bigger than mine, he'd have a flat screen and a full bookshelf all to himself. What about this basic concept is just out of your bloody reach. IT IS WHERE HE IS LOCATED THAT IS THE ISSUE.

At this point,it's also worth mentioning again,that Ibrahim Halawa does NOT face charges which currently carry the Death Penalty in Egypt.

Means Of Escape

Noblong wrote: »

Yeah. We care what your definition of an Irish citizen is.

An arrogant and dismissive reply by one with nothing else to add

Chemical Byrne

Look, this guy is not Irish in the real sense. He is only technically "Irish" due to holding an Irish citizenship & passport.

Being genuinely Irish is about a lot more than your citizenship status: ancestry, cultural identification etc etc.

This is the real reason why the government has little interest. COnversly if it were a young fella born n bread in west cork and raised on a diet of GAA and binge drinking they'd be pulling out all the stops to get him back. Simple as.

darkpagandeath

Wright wrote: »

If the judgement was likely to not involve hanging or decapitation or 300 years in jail, sure. Again, why do I have to say this again, why is this not getting through your skull, if this had happened in Sweden or somewhere there'd be no story, no thread. His room would be bigger than mine, he'd have a flat screen and a full bookshelf all to himself. What about this basic concept is just out of your bloody reach. IT IS WHERE HE IS LOCATED THAT IS THE ISSUE.

Really ? Citation

-No need seen user cannot reply-

ohnonotgmail

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Look, this guy is not Irish in the real sense. He is only technically "Irish" due to holding an Irish citizenship & passport.

Being genuinely Irish is about a lot more than your citizenship status: ancestry, cultural identification etc etc.

This is the real reason why the government has little interest. COnversly if it were a young fella born n bread in west cork and raised on a diet of GAA and binge drinking they'd be pulling out all the stops to get him back. Simple as.

the irish government has taken a massive interest in this case. the young lad has received extensive consular assistance.

darkpagandeath

Noblong wrote: »

Yeah. We care what your definition of an Irish citizen is.

Same as the States definition. Hence why the Irish state are seeking his release through diplomatic channels. As they realise the Egyptians have jurisdiction over this lad as he is Egyptian.

darkpagandeath

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Look, this guy is not Irish in the real sense. He is only technically "Irish" due to holding an Irish citizenship & passport.

Being genuinely Irish is about a lot more than your citizenship status: ancestry, cultural identification etc etc.

This is the real reason why the government has little interest. COnversly if it were a young fella born n bread in west cork and raised on a diet of GAA and binge drinking they'd be pulling out all the stops to get him back. Simple as.

No they would not this has been established as other Irish people abroad have never revived this kind of diplomatic help. If one was in Egypt as a born and bread Irishman you would have been given the number of a local lawyer and told well you broke the law. And tell us how you get on.

Smiles35

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Same as the States definition. Hence why the Irish state are seeking his release through diplomatic channels. As they realise the Egyptians have jurisdiction over this lad as he is Egyptian.

The lad has crimes to answer for according to you all thread. So much for persuit of justice. :pac:

darkpagandeath

Noblong wrote: »

The lad has crimes to answer for according to you all thread. So much for persuit of justice. :pac:

I guess one has not seen a video of incitement to violence ? There is video evidence.

And on that point some will argue he will not get justice in Egypt, he has been charged does one refute that ? What I think of his crimes is irrelevant as I am not Trying him

ohnonotgmail

Noblong wrote: »

The lad has crimes to answer for according to you all thread. So much for persuit of justice. :pac:

he certainly has to answer for what he has done. or do you consider him entirely innocent?

Hans Bricks

Noblong wrote: »

Yeah. We care what your definition of an Irish citizen is.

Yeah. We "care" he's an Irish citizen. He has a harp on his passport and a pps number. Woopdedoo.

darkpagandeath

Hans Bricks wrote: »

Yeah. We "care" he's an Irish citizen. He has a harp on his passport and a pps number. Woopdedoo.

True but currently that is not being recognised, Probably down to him refusing the deal that was brokered. Now the Egyptians are trying him as one of their own. I would not like to be on the receiving end of the outcome. I would hazard a guess the videos will come back to haunt.

Muahahaha

Wow 338 pages in and people are still arguing about his nationality ! People here are saying he has tenuous links with Ireland but as far as I can see he grew up here and has spent many of his formative years living and going to school here. Maybe that's not 'Irish' enough for some people but I'd love to know what their definition of 'Irish' really is. Are these the same people who don't see former Dublin GAA footballer Jason Sherlock as Irish because he doesn't fit their version of 'Irish'? I suspect they are.

Regards the whole passport thing, Halawa had one and therefore has Irish citizenship, end of. Our govt has a duty to help him out, as they do all Irish citizens. People should also remember the case of Ken Bigley, an English citizen and passport holder who also had an Irish grandmother. Before Bigley was beheaded in Iraq the Irish govt issued him with an Irish passport in the hope his captors might let him go. He had never before owned an Irish passport or claimed to be Irish. Nonetheless no-one had a problem with our govt issuing him a passport if it meant that he avoided being treated in a completely unjust manner. Which leads me to my last point...do those opposing Halawa on here really think that there is any kind of justice to be had in a mass trial of some 475 defendants? If so can you please explain how? Because that's the crux of all this for me, irrespective of his guilt or innocence the guy should be entitled to a fair trial where justice is done and seen to be done. Trying 475 people collectively is nothing more than a show trial designed to putting a chilling effect on all other citizens to deter them from protesting their govt or public policy in future. You cant get justice when you're tried with 475 other people, it is simply impossible and goes against any kind of rational thinking of what justice is and how it should be administered. If the Egyptian govt. can't administer justice in any meaningful sense then the DoFA have a duty to lobby on his behalf.

For the record I'm not swallowed in by some of the innocent stories of why he was there and what he was doing there. I see him as having questions to answer on these issues. However if those questions can't be put to him in a fair and just trial (and its pretty clear they can't) then our govt. has a duty to try lobby Egyptian authorities on his behalf.

RichardCeann

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

This is the real reason why the government has little interest. COnversly if it were a young fella born n bread in west cork and raised on a diet of GAA and binge drinking they'd be pulling out all the stops to get him back. Simple as.

Where are people getting this idea that the Irish government are doing little to help this guy? There are Irish citizens on death row in the US and an Irish born nurse is locked up in the Philippines for having a spliff in his bag despite the evidence being flimsy at best. Very few Irish people would be able to name them, nevermind being aware of their stories. Halawas story and case is getting multiples more attention than most. By both the government and the media.

Halawa has been visited over 40 times in prison by diplomatic staff and the Irish ambassador has attended all his trials in person. CF has said once the court procedure is finished he will apply for his release. The Irish government cannot interfere in Egyptian criminal proceedings. They have to let it run its course first. Just like we would not be best pleased if they interfered in ours. Egypt is a country in great turmoil and those holding it together cannot be seen to bend over to a western country's will.

Sinn Féin has said the Irish Government needs to appoint a new ambassador to Egypt as soon as possible.

It is after MEP Lynn Boylan from the party raised fears that Irish citizen Ibrahim Halawa could face tougher prison conditions if Ireland does not maintain diplomatic pressure to have him released.

The 19-year-old from Firhouse in Dublin is approaching the two-year anniversary of his arrest in Egypt, and is still awaiting trial.

The government has said it determined to secure his release, but that it cannot interfere with the judicial system in Egypt.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/sf-calls-on-government-to-appoint-new-egyptian-ambassador-689882.html

I really can't see what more can be done for him or what Sinn Fein and those involved in the campaign for his release expect the ambassador and government to do for him. But claims that they are ignoring his plight are untruthful at best.

darkpagandeath

Muahahaha wrote: »

Wow 338 pages in and people are still arguing about his nationality ! People here are saying he has tenuous links with Ireland but as far as I can see he grew up here and has spent many of his formative years living and going to school here. Maybe that's not 'Irish' enough for some people but I'd love to know what their definition of 'Irish' really is. Are these the same people who don't see former Dublin GAA footballer Jason Sherlock as Irish because he doesn't fit their version of 'Irish'? I suspect they are.

Regards the whole passport thing, Halawa had one and therefore has Irish citizenship, end of. Our govt has a duty to help him out, as they do all Irish citizens. People should also remember the case of Ken Bigley, an English citizen and passport holder who also had an Irish grandmother. Before Bigley was beheaded in Iraq the Irish govt issued him with an Irish passport in the hope his captors might let him go. He had never before owned an Irish passport or claimed to be Irish. Nonetheless no-one had a problem with our govt issuing him a passport if it meant that he avoided being treated in a completely unjust manner. Which leads me to my last point...do those opposing Halawa on here really think that there is any kind of justice to be had in a mass trial of some 475 defendants? If so can you please explain how? Because that's the crux of all this for me, irrespective of his guilt or innocence the guy should be entitled to a fair trial where justice is done and seen to be done. Trying 475 people collectively is nothing more than a show trial designed to putting a chilling effect on all other citizens to deter them from protesting their govt or public policy in future. You cant get justice when you're tried with 475 other people, it is simply impossible and goes against any kind of rational thinking of what justice is and how it should be administered. If the Egyptian govt. can't administer justice in any meaningful sense then the DoFA have a duty to lobby on his behalf.

For the record I'm not swallowed in by some of the innocent stories of why he was there and what he was doing there. I see him as having questions to answer on these issues. However if those questions can't be put to him in a fair and just trial (and its pretty clear they can't) then our govt. has a duty to try lobby Egyptian authorities on his behalf.

Did we forget the video evidence of him pronouncing "I have come home ?"

Muahahaha

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Did we forget the video evidence of him pronouncing "I have come home ?"

whats your point? Dual citizens typically see themselves as having two homes. Immigrants the world over who settle in another country don't just turn their back on their heritage overnight.

ohnonotgmail

Muahahaha wrote: »

whats your point? Dual citizens typically see themselves as having two homes. Immigrants the world over who settle in another country don't just turn their back on their heritage overnight.

except he was supposedly born here.

wendell borton

There's plenty of other Irish citizens locked up in dodgy countries with minimal support from the authorities. Just heard on Joes Duffy about the case of a retired Irish citizen locked up in Spain for over a year without charges against him. Despite good references he only received one consular visit and no political representation.

darkpagandeath

Muahahaha wrote: »

whats your point? Dual citizens typically see themselves as having two homes. Immigrants the world over who settle in another country don't just turn their back on their heritage overnight.

Yes it is confusing I have said he is an Immigrant due to the dates of arrival in Ireland and the birth date. But one said he was born here now he's an Immigrant which is it ? I would argue he does not think of himself As Irish due to the video evidence. Coming home comments and with my brothers all that. And the attire/attitude in the video. Does not come off particularly western to me never mind Irish, As his entire family is Egyptian.

And before anyone jumps on it I am not talking about Religious clothing.

Muahahaha

darkpagandeath wrote: »

No they would not this has been established as other Irish people abroad have never revived this kind of diplomatic help. If one was in Egypt as a born and bread Irishman you would have been given the number of a local lawyer and told well you broke the law. And tell us how you get on.

Thats simply not true- I refer you to the case of Ken Bigley, who wasn't an Irish citizen but was given an Irish passport