Irish Teen Fears Execution in Egypt

darkpagandeath

Why don't they ever use the pictures of him doing MB gang signs and all that ?

Means Of Escape

Bring him back where he can feel the soft green grass under his feet, breathe in the briney air of the Irish coast for these are elements of why his family
came here
The peace and tranquility,the promise of a better life

Get him back at all costs
Away from the hardship and arid landscape of Egypt that stole him ,kept him prisoner through no fault of his own.


Unfortunately this is not the case.As an adult he decided to attend a rally that incited violence and will quite rightly be tried for that in Egypt.
His actions in Egypt has consequences and it is not for our government to try and sway another to release him without a trial

end of the road

darkpagandeath wrote: »

So does that put a nail in the coffin that the Egyptians are illegitimate thugs that make stuff up ? As they are allowing Irish counsellor access.

no, it doesn't. allowing the irish in to give assistence is a way of trying to look good internationally. but it doesn't change anything in terms of the egyptian government. they are still thugs.

darkpagandeath

end of the road wrote: »

no, it doesn't. allowing the irish in to give assistence is a way of trying to look good internationally. but it doesn't change anything in terms of the egyptian government. they are still thugs.

That's absolute nonsense. Why do they care what people think about the way they punish criminals ? Most countries in that area don't care what anyone else thinks. Is how they Treat rioters killers and alike going to stop people going on holiday there ? You know as normal peoples reason for going to Egypt is to see the pyramids for example and not the Inside of their legal system.

end of the road

Means Of Escape wrote: »

Bring him back where he can feel the soft green grass under his feet, breathe in the briney air of the Irish coast for these are elements of why his family
came here
The peace and tranquility,the promise of a better life

Get him back at all costs
Away from the hardship and arid landscape of Egypt that stole him ,kept him prisoner through no fault of his own.


Unfortunately this is not the case.As an adult he decided to attend a rally that incited violence and will quite rightly be tried for that in Egypt.
His actions in Egypt has consequences and it is not for our government to try and sway another to release him without a trial

he attended a protest and nothing more. there is no evidence of incitement to violence. his non-actions in egypt have no consiquences as no evidence exists to back them up apart from some claims. any trial in egypt would be unfair and couldn't be trusted. it is for our government to try get him released if at all possible, and i commend them for doing what they can, whether it will or won't work.

darkpagandeath

end of the road wrote: »

he attended a protest and nothing more.there is no evidence of incitement to violence. his non-actions in egypt have no consiquences as no evidence exists to back them up apart from some claims. any trial in egypt would be unfair and couldn't be trusted. it is for our government to try get him released if at all possible, and i commend them for doing what they can, whether it will or won't work.

Are we forgetting the video evidence now ? Recorded on their own devices ? If one only attended a protest why did they end up on stage as Guest speakers ?

weldoninhio

DarkyHughes wrote: »

Sounds to what he's going to through. That's pure raw militarism for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqtFEGgCLOg

Where could I pick up one of these magic poles that allow you to batter someone and leave no marks??

Means Of Escape

end of the road wrote: »

he attended a protest and nothing more. there is no evidence of incitement to violence. his non-actions in egypt have no consiquences as no evidence exists to back them up apart from some claims. any trial in egypt would be unfair and couldn't be trusted. it is for our government to try get him released if at all possible, and i commend them for doing what they can, whether it will or won't work.

I would argue that his actions would put him in the class of a militant
Whatever way you roll the dice or window dress the situation
Are you making a comparison with the Egyptian judicial system and that of Ireland with claims of unfair trials in Egypt or comparing it with Indonesia and the Bali 9?

Muahahaha

RichardCeann wrote: »

You are trying to compare Ken Begley, who was captured and murdered by Islamic terrorists, to Halawa, who was agitating on behalf of an illegal Islamic organisation.

That's impressive.

Incorrect- the only thing impressive is your misinterpretation of me comparing the consular assistance given to a British citizen (Bigley) compared to some on here complaining of Halawa getting any Irish assistance whatsoever, despite him having an Irish passport. My point was that our govt extended this courtesy to a non-citizen and nobody complained. But here we have an Irish citizen who needs assistance and some on here can't bear that he should be helped out.

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I would not go and break laws in a country that I don't like the legal system in. Whiles going on about coming home and being with my brothers. So one cannot really complain if one thinks they are home. And I would wager this chap would be fine with the legal system if the MB was in charge as it has not changed. I cannot get my head around the sisters going on about human rights and all that in relation to the military in power when they would be fine if it was a MB court handing out the same justice. Well probably worse justice actually.

Thats no defence of the Egyptian judicial system.

weldoninhio wrote: »

Well I'd point to some of the people who have already been tried, and found not guilty as an argument in favour of the Egyptian judiciary. If they were just finding everyone guilty I'd agree that it was a kangaroo court, but they are methodically working their way through the numbers arrested, going through the evidence and coming to their decision that way. Sounds like pretty much any other civilised judiciary in the developed world.

Is that all you've got to back up that the Egyptian Judicial system is fair, balanced and people can expect a fair trial. Because if you think that then you are very, very wrong- Egypt has one of the worst human rights records in the world and have been censured constantly by the UN for running a regime based on torture and fear. The judiciary are a vital cog in such a regime, they're not independent bystanders when they run mass trials where defendants don't even get to defend themselves.

DarkyHughes

F&cking hell the amount of hawks on this thread baying for Muslim blood. To hell with the fact he grew up in Ireland, was totally interrogated into Irish society & went to Primary & Secondary schools in Ireland.

I really wouldn't want these hawks to be Irish citizens (I'm guessing their Irish) if I was captured by the Taliban or ISIS or something. I can just imagine their posts now "let them chop his head off, how he dare protest against a brutal military regime".

Means Of Escape

Muahahaha wrote: »

Incorrect- the only thing impressive is your misinterpretation of me comparing the consular assistance given to a British citizen (Bigley) compared to some on here complaining of Halawa getting any Irish assistance whatsoever, despite him having an Irish passport. My point was that our govt extended this courtesy to a non-citizen and nobody complained. But here we have an Irish citizen who needs assistance and some on here can't bear that he should be helped out.




Thats no defence of the Egyptian judicial system.



Is that all you've got to back up that the Egyptian Judicial system is fair, balanced and people can expect a fair trial. Because if you think that then you are very, very wrong- Egypt has one of the worst human rights records in the world and have been censured constantly by the UN for running a regime based on torture and fear. The judiciary are a vital cog in such a regime, they're not independent bystanders when they run mass trials where defendants don't even get to defend themselves.

DarkyHughes wrote: »

F&cking hell the amount of hawks on this thread baying for Muslim blood. To hell with the fact he grew up in Ireland, was totally interrogated into Irish society & went to Primary & Secondary schools in Ireland.

I really wouldn't want these hawks to be Irish citizens (I'm guessing their Irish) if I was captured by the Taliban or ISIS or something. I can just imagine their posts now "let them chop his head off, how he dare protest against a brutal military regime".

???????

DarkyHughes

Muahahaha wrote: »

Incorrect- the only thing impressive is your misinterpretation of me comparing the consular assistance given to a British citizen (Bigley) compared to some on here complaining of Halawa getting any Irish assistance whatsoever, despite him having an Irish passport. My point was that our govt extended this courtesy to a non-citizen and nobody complained. But here we have an Irish citizen who needs assistance and some on here can't bear that he should be helped out.




Thats no defence of the Egyptian judicial system.



Is that all you've got to back up that the Egyptian Judicial system is fair, balanced and people can expect a fair trial. Because if you think that then you are very, very wrong- Egypt has one of the worst human rights records in the world and have been censured constantly by the UN for running a regime based on torture and fear. The judiciary are a vital cog in such a regime, they're not independent bystanders when they run mass trials where defendants don't even get to defend themselves.

I agree with everything you said but you have to understand there's a lot of hawkish clans on AH who just don't like Muslims & will distort facts or just sometimes blatantly make things up to make sure people feel no sympathy for them no matter what the situation.

Means Of Escape

DarkyHughes wrote: »

F&cking hell the amount of hawks on this thread baying for Muslim blood. To hell with the fact he grew up in Ireland, was totally interrogated into Irish society & went to Primary & Secondary schools in Ireland.

I really wouldn't want these hawks to be Irish citizens (I'm guessing their Irish) if I was captured by the Taliban or ISIS or something. I can just imagine their posts now "let them chop his head off, how he dare protest against a brutal military regime".

He is a militant.

DarkyHughes

Means Of Escape wrote: »

???????

You no who the Hawks are I'm not going to name names. But people like myself & "end of the road" believe in a little thing called diplomacy and think it should be used as soon as possible to bring this kid home to Dublin, the place he loves.

Muahahaha

I know, its astonishing how many people when hiding behind a keyboard want him to get the death penalty or something. He's already endured Egyptian prison torture (not forgetting that the US used to rendition terror suspects to Egypt due to how viciously they knew their Egyptian allies would torture them on their behalf). So not content with knowing his is likely a victim of some type of Egyptian prison torture people are wanting to see him get more, either that or face an unfair and unjust trial. No-one here seems to want to argue that the Egyptian judicial system is fair, everyone knows it is anything but fair, yet some posting on here would prefer see a miscarriage of justice if it means an Irish Muslim gets locked up for a long time, or worse, the death penalty.

Perhaps he is not Irish enough for them or something, which seems like a lousy and weak excuse to me for wanting someone to face more torture and mistreatment.

DarkyHughes

Means Of Escape wrote: »

He is a militant.

See user Muahahaha this the type of lies I was talking about. "He is a militant" WTF like. How low can these hawks stoop.

KingBrian2

Muahahaha wrote: »

Is that all you've got to back up that the Egyptian Judicial system is fair, balanced and people can expect a fair trial. Because if you think that then you are very, very wrong- Egypt has one of the worst human rights records in the world and have been censured constantly by the UN for running a regime based on torture and fear. The judiciary are a vital cog in such a regime, they're not independent bystanders when they run mass trials where defendants don't even get to defend themselves.

All those countries bordering the Mediterranean in Africa and West Asia are Arabic speaking societies or they recognise that language. Now they have vastly different cultures to our own.

Take the 6 major languages of the UN even among the three that are similar English and French have cultural differences. When you compare those two to the Arabs the differences are just so massive.

The Egyptian judicial system is a product of Arabic beliefs and traditions even if we don't consider it fit for purpose it is for them to chose an alternative should they decide they want to we can persuade them it is worth their while.

DarkyHughes

Anyway as much fun as it would be to bicker with the hawkish clan who seem intent on having this kid be executed I have some more productive stuff to do.

If I come by any more video's about the campaign to free the young lad I'll post them for the people who have a heart or who just aren't hawkish bigots.

darkpagandeath

DarkyHughes wrote: »

Anyway as much fun as it would be to bicker with the hawkish clan who seem intent on having this kid be executed I have some more productive stuff to do.

If I come by any more video's about the campaign to free the young lad I'll post them for the people who have a heart or who just aren't hawkish bigots.

What a load of tripe, Please point out who has called for the death penalty ? And who hates "Da Muslimz" ?

darkpagandeath

DarkyHughes wrote: »

F&cking hell the amount of hawks on this thread baying for Muslim blood. To hell with the fact he grew up in Ireland, was totally interrogated into Irish society & went to Primary & Secondary schools in Ireland.

I really wouldn't want these hawks to be Irish citizens (I'm guessing their Irish) if I was captured by the Taliban or ISIS or something. I can just imagine their posts now "let them chop his head off, how he dare protest against a brutal military regime".

Please explain who ?

RichardCeann

DarkyHughes wrote: »

I really wouldn't want these hawks to be Irish citizens (I'm guessing their Irish) if I was captured by the Taliban or ISIS or something.

Or even the Muslim Brotherhood.

AlekSmart

Muahahaha wrote: »

The point is look how far the Irish govt went in the Ken Bigley case for a person who wasn't even an Irish citizen when he got taken captive. They rushed through a passport for him, forgoing all the usual security precautions such as him actually filling out a passport application like every Irish citizen has to do. It was a highly unusual case but our govt did their best to save his life. So if the DFA went that far for a non-Irish citizen I don't think it is much to ask that they do likewise for an Irish citizen who cannot get a fair trial.

The Ken Bigley comparisons may be valid in more ways than simply as a stick to beat the Irish Government.

It should be recalled that Ken Bigley and his two fellow workers made a decision to remain in Iraq,even after they had recieved specific warnings about their security having been compromised.

The then Irish Government's response,was in a very real sense an act of desperation (thoroughly merited) albeit unsuccessful.

Currently,Ibrahim Hawala,is NOT in imminent danger and continues to have the benefits of access by a number of Legal Advisers and Humanitarian/Diplomatic supporters.

Which gets me to one final point. Can any of the posters here offer a decent argument in favour of the Egyptian judicial system and its ability to administer justice? Because unless you think he can actually get a fair trial then all these circular arguments on whether he is Irish or not are a complete waste of time. If he can get a fair trial in Egypt then I think he should be tried there. But only a lunatic would argue that being tried alongside 475 other detainees is going to result in a fair and just trial.[/QUOTE]

One immediate counter to the claims of Egyptian Justice being administered by wild eyed blood-thirsty Judges,is the decision grant bail to the Hawala Sisters.

I would suggest that any so-called bloodthirsty,repressive,undemocratic ruling junta would be less than keen to release ANY of those initially accused and awaiting trial,particularly the children of a senior cleric from the opposing wing of their belief structure.

Perhaps Egypt's leadership are'nt bloodthirsty enough for some posters ?

The Irish Times carried a rather informative article on just how fractured the MB is in Egypt and just how the age-divide is now surfacing,in almost a direct parallell with Sheykh Hawalla and his son.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/muslim-brotherhood-s-youth-push-for-retribution-1.2308924

RichardCeann

DarkyHughes wrote: »

You no who the Hawks are I'm not going to name names. But people like myself & "end of the road" believe in a little thing called diplomacy and think it should be used as soon as possible to bring this kid home to Dublin, the place he loves.

He is home. He said so himself when on stage addressing the crowd at the Muslim Brotherhood rally.

end of the road

Means Of Escape wrote: »

He is a militant.

he's not

Means Of Escape

DarkyHughes wrote: »

I agree with everything you said but you have to understand there's a lot of hawkish clans on AH who just don't like Muslims & will distort facts or just sometimes blatantly make things up to make sure people feel no sympathy for them no matter what the situation.

Most who are posting on this topic have no problem with Muslims
What they do have a problem with is this blind support for an individual who clearly acted as a supporter of Morsi who himself decided to give himself supreme powers and answerable to no one in 2013
They are perplexed that this individual is getting so much publicity,official help and sympathy given his actions and the true full extent of his participation is not fully known but this will come out at his trial

There may be supporters with red faces when all the facts come out .

Means Of Escape

end of the road wrote: »

he's not

If he is found to have acted in an aggressive manner for a cause he is classed as a militant .

AlekSmart

DarkyHughes wrote: »

You no who the Hawks are I'm not going to name names. But people like myself & "end of the road" believe in a little thing called diplomacy and think it should be used as soon as possible to bring this kid home to Dublin, the place he loves.

Surely 42 Consular visits,direct representations from the Irish Ambassador,along with several direct interventions by the Minister for Foreign Affairs and discussions between President Higgins and the new Egyptian Ambassador IS Diplomacy ?

Diplomacy has been used since Mr Hawala first got himself arrested,with Diplomacy alone,being responsible for the release of the Hawala sisters.

This Diplomacy is continuing,and as Minister Flanagan testified to the Dail Committee,it has to be allowed to continue.

The sense from some posters,that Ireland should mount some form of assault on the Egyptian State based upon a campaign effectively devised and run by a single family,flies counter to both commonsense and propriety.

I would equally contend that the belated arrival on-scene,of the Sinn Féin publicity machine (Well oiled and efficient as it may be),resembles a grotesque trawl for "stuff" to be seen to support,in the immediate aftermath of that partys,less than successful,attempt to align itself with foreign causes to support.

For the present,the ability of the Irish Consulate to have access to Mr Hawala,and the continuing efforts to have his trial expedited are definite successes which the actions of Ms Boylan and her party may yet damage.

Means Of Escape

DarkyHughes wrote: »

See user Muahahaha this the type of lies I was talking about. "He is a militant" WTF like. How low can these hawks stoop.

Jaw dropping naivety

Roger McAllen

DarkyHughes wrote: »

Anyway as much fun as it would be to bicker with the hawkish clan who seem intent on having this kid be executed

I've read most of the 5000 posts on this thread, and this myth needs to be dispelled immediately. The only mention of death penalty or execution seems to come from either the Halawa sisters themselves with their media manipulation and lies, or from pro-Halawa posters on this thread. Not once have I seen anyone here say he deserves execution, let alone "intent on" the idea as you say.

Roger McAllen

AlekSmart wrote: »

For the present,the ability of the Irish Consulate to have access to Mr Hawala,and the continuing efforts to have his trial expedited are definite successes which the actions of Ms Boylan and her party may yet damage.

Ironic considering that Sinn Fein have spent the last 45 years trying to distance themselves from terrorism.