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Irish Teen Fears Execution in Egypt

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    #5162
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,987 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Some people here with strong feelings about this...not sure what his sisters weight has to do with it though


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    #5163
    Means Of Escape
    Registered Users Posts: 1,897 ✭✭✭Means Of Escape


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    Some people here with strong feelings about this...not sure what his sisters weight has to do with it though

    Strong feelings bearing on
    1-the farce that this truly is
    2-the acceptance by the government that this individual is free from any guilt in wrongdoing in his home country
    3- the zealous nature of Sinn Fein to have the individual brought back to Ireland regardless of any crime he may have committed
    4- the blinkered view supporters of this chap have of the situation in Egypt where the government are drowning in lawlessness and the threat of militant groups
    5- the failure of supporters to make the connection between the Muslim Brotherhood and ISIS
    6- the disparity in the help given to this person and help given or lack thereof of hundreds of others like the chap mentioned in the above post in Spain
    7- the flawed belief that he took part in a peaceful protest and had very little part to play
    8- the interference of the Irish government in the natural judicial process in Egypt .
    9- the cost of the numerous visits to him in jail and the propaganda style video posted by Sinn Fein without any tangebile evidence to prove their claims of the conditions in captivity
    10- the untruths and conflicting accounts he has given regarding his participation ,actions and the assistance he has be not given following his arrest.

    Emotions need to be removed and focus on the facts of the case .
    He took part in a demonstration to try and push the return of the head of the Muslim Brotherhood who are known to have militant views
    He therefore by aligning himself with this group is classed as a militant
    He is facing trial for this and nothing else more than likely a charge of attempting to destabilise the government .
    It was attempted in Bahrain and was quashed
    The Egyptians are no different and for us to think we can foist our Western ideals on Middle Eastern countries is why the area is in the abyss they currently find themselves in .


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    #5164
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,987 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Means Of Escape wrote: »
    Strong feelings bearing on
    1-the farce that this truly is
    2-the acceptance by the government that this individual is free from any guilt in wrongdoing in his home country
    3- the zealous nature of Sinn Fein to have the individual brought back to Ireland regardless of any crime he may have committed
    4- the blinkered view supporters of this chap have of the situation in Egypt where the government are drowning in lawlessness and the threat of militant groups
    5- the failure of supporters to make the connection between the Muslim Brotherhood and ISIS
    6- the disparity in the help given to this person and help given or lack thereof of hundreds of others like the chap mentioned in the above post in Spain
    7- the flawed belief that he took part in a peaceful protest and had very little part to play
    8- the interference of the Irish government in the natural judicial process in Egypt .
    9- the cost of the numerous visits to him in jail and the propaganda style video posted by Sinn Fein without any tangebile evidence to prove their claims of the conditions in captivity
    10- the untruths and conflicting accounts he has given regarding his participation ,actions and the assistance he has be not given following his arrest.

    Emotions need to be removed and focus on the facts of the case .
    He took part in a demonstration to try and push the return of the head of the Muslim Brotherhood who are known to have militant views
    He therefore by aligning himself with this group is classed as a militant
    He is facing trial for this and nothing else more than likely a charge of attempting to destabilise the government .
    It was attempted in Bahrain and was quashed
    The Egyptians are no different and for us to think we can foist our Western ideals on Middle Eastern countries is why the area is in the abyss they currently find themselves in .
    or he's a misguided teen and deserves a 2nd chance


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    #5165
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    or he's a misguided teen and deserves a 2nd chance


    no no . he spouted nonsense on a video, and the egyptian government are the definition of freedom and democracy. that and all the other factors make this chap automatically guilty regardless. it is laughible though, how people seem to take the word of such a government but there you go

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #5166
    Means Of Escape
    Registered Users Posts: 1,897 ✭✭✭Means Of Escape


    end of the road wrote: »
    no no . he spouted nonsense on a video, and the egyptian government are the definition of freedom and democracy. that and all the other factors make this chap automatically guilty regardless. it is laughible though, how people seem to take the word of such a government but there you go

    A government that is more aware of what is happening in Egypt than you or I know but one is probably better off taking his word for it and supporting MB

    That group are great fun and are a laugh a minute I'm sure .


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    #5167
    Means Of Escape
    Registered Users Posts: 1,897 ✭✭✭Means Of Escape


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    or he's a misguided teen and deserves a 2nd chance

    This isn't a guy who stole his mothers car and drove into town for a few drinks looking for a second chance

    As regarding misguided He was well versed in the group that is MB hence he packed his bags to support them
    You can excuse all the misguided teens (15 year olds)who recently marched 10 Iraqi soldiers to a pit and shot them for the ISIS cause if we are to look at this your way .
    Responsibility and accountability .


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    #5168
    RichardCeann
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 647 ✭✭✭RichardCeann


    end of the road wrote: »
    it is laughible though, how people seem to take the word of such a government but there you go

    Do you want to know what is really laughable? That our media believe every word that the Halawa sisters say and print it as fact. Is he still on hunger strike? Hows the untreated gunshot wound in his hand? How's his defective heart that requires surgery?


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    #5169
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Means Of Escape wrote: »
    A government that is more aware of what is happening in Egypt than you or I know but one is probably better off taking his word for it and supporting MB

    That group are great fun and are a laugh a minute I'm sure .


    i'd take his word over a government charging 400 people at the same time on the same charge TBH
    Means Of Escape wrote: »
    This isn't a guy who stole his mothers car and drove into town for a few drinks looking for a second chance

    he may as well be.
    Means Of Escape wrote: »
    As regarding misguided He was well versed in the group that is MB hence he packed his bags to support them

    he was also a dum teenager. means nothing.
    Means Of Escape wrote: »
    You can excuse all the misguided teens (15 year olds)who recently marched 10 Iraqi soldiers to a pit and shot them for the ISIS cause if we are to look at this your way .
    Responsibility and accountability .

    he has nothing to be Responsible or accountable for. spouting some nonsense in a speech means nothing. and being charged along with 400 others in a court, definitely the actions of a free democratic government.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #5170
    Hans Bricks
    Registered Users Posts: 850 ✭✭✭Hans Bricks


    end of the road wrote: »
    i'd take his word over a government charging 400 people at the same time on the same charge TBH



    he may as well be.



    he was also a dum teenager. means nothing.



    he has nothing to be Responsible or accountable for. spouting some nonsense in a speech means nothing. and being charged along with 400 others in a court, definitely the actions of a free democratic government.

    Utterly idiotic fingers in the ears.


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    #5171
    lanos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 600 ✭✭✭lanos


    let him do whatever sentence he receives. 5 years or whatever and when he gets out, hopefully he will be rehabilitated and forget this militant nonsense and become a true irish citizen but i suspect that he never really wanted to be a true irish citizen.... the passport comes in handy though.


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    #5172
    Means Of Escape
    Registered Users Posts: 1,897 ✭✭✭Means Of Escape


    end of the road wrote: »
    i'd take his word over a government charging 400 people at the same time on the same charge tbh

    The government you are criticising as undemocratic did in fact prevent a dictatorship from evolving under Morsi who stripped all powers from cabinet members and gave HIMSELF supreme rule
    The MB threatened judges to declare Morsi as the "elected" new leader


    ----30 million Egyptians called for Morsis removal.----


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    #5173
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Means Of Escape wrote: »
    The government you are criticising as undemocratic did in fact prevent a dictatorship from evolving under Morsi who stripped all powers from cabinet members and gave HIMSELF supreme rule
    The MB threatened judges to declare Morsi as the "elected" new leader


    ----30 million Egyptians called for Morsis removal.----

    Pointless arguing with him. Like arguing with a 3 year old.


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    #5174
    Means Of Escape
    Registered Users Posts: 1,897 ✭✭✭Means Of Escape


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Pointless arguing with him. Like arguing with a 3 year old.

    Pointless in that you can't argue with the facts presented or offer anything alternative of substance


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    #5175
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,413 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Means Of Escape wrote: »
    Pointless in that you can't argue with the facts presented or offer anything alternative of substance

    there are no facts to argue against. Its just nay, nay and thrice nay.


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    #5176
    Roger McAllen
    Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭Roger McAllen


    Means Of Escape wrote: »
    Strong feelings bearing on
    1-the farce that this truly is
    2-the acceptance by the government that this individual is free from any guilt in wrongdoing in his home country
    3- the zealous nature of Sinn Fein to have the individual brought back to Ireland regardless of any crime he may have committed
    4- the blinkered view supporters of this chap have of the situation in Egypt where the government are drowning in lawlessness and the threat of militant groups
    5- the failure of supporters to make the connection between the Muslim Brotherhood and ISIS
    6- the disparity in the help given to this person and help given or lack thereof of hundreds of others like the chap mentioned in the above post in Spain
    7- the flawed belief that he took part in a peaceful protest and had very little part to play
    8- the interference of the Irish government in the natural judicial process in Egypt .
    9- the cost of the numerous visits to him in jail and the propaganda style video posted by Sinn Fein without any tangebile evidence to prove their claims of the conditions in captivity
    10- the untruths and conflicting accounts he has given regarding his participation ,actions and the assistance he has be not given following his arrest.

    Emotions need to be removed and focus on the facts of the case .
    He took part in a demonstration to try and push the return of the head of the Muslim Brotherhood who are known to have militant views
    He therefore by aligning himself with this group is classed as a militant
    He is facing trial for this and nothing else more than likely a charge of attempting to destabilise the government .
    It was attempted in Bahrain and was quashed
    The Egyptians are no different and for us to think we can foist our Western ideals on Middle Eastern countries is why the area is in the abyss they currently find themselves in .

    Can somebody please send a link to these 10 points to Lynn Boylan's twitter page. I don't have a twitter account otherwise I'd do it myself. Her profile pic is her holding a "free Ibrahim Halawa" poster ffs. I'm not even joking. I was actually starting to believe Sinn Fein were a credible party with a few sound policies (seriously). They need to disassociate from this woman immediately if they want any seats in the upcoming election.


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    #5177
    Means Of Escape
    Registered Users Posts: 1,897 ✭✭✭Means Of Escape


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    there are no facts to argue against. Its just nay, nay and thrice nay.

    Ok Mister Ed


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    #5178
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    end of the road wrote: »
    I'd take his word over a Government charging 400 people at the same time on the same charge TBH

    They're not doing that.
    There are a range of charges across the 400 accused.
    He may as well be.

    It is of interest that Mr Hawalla and his Sisters were visiting his mother,who apparently resides in the "family home" in Cairo.


    He was also a dumb teenager. Means nothing.

    I find this portrayal of Mr Hawalla to be especially inaccurate,insulting even.According to the Hawala sisters,Ibrahim Hawalla is a well educated young man,who was about to enter UCD's Engineering Faculty.

    Whether his family will be prepared to confirm your "Dumb teenager" diagnosis will be interesting.


    He has nothing to be Responsible or accountable for. spouting some nonsense in a speech means nothing. and being charged along with 400 others in a court, definitely the actions of a free democratic government.

    You are (yet again) incorrect on both accounts.

    Mr Hawala AND his sisters not only attended a mass anti-government rally,but at some point decided to jointly address the gathering.

    Their speeches indicate that they were advocating further action,with references to the "Spilling of Blood" most definitely bringing their contributions into the realms of responsibility and accountability,in ANY Country.

    Whilst the current Egyptian Government may not represent what you or I would regard as "Democratic",it is perfectly normal for a region in which the process of democractic representation does not march to our drum beat.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #5179
    DeadHand
    Registered Users Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    The Egyptian nation is currently in the midst a death struggle against the forces of religious barbarism and Ireland has unthinkingly allied herself with the barbarians.

    The ultimate irony is that in the type of society that Halawi campaigns to bring about the very people most vocal in supporting him would suffer most and first.


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    #5180
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,413 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Means Of Escape wrote: »
    Ok Mister Ed


    i love the way you responded to that with some facts. hilarious.


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    #5181
    Means Of Escape
    Registered Users Posts: 1,897 ✭✭✭Means Of Escape


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    i love the way you responded to that with some facts. hilarious.

    Neigh neigh neigh Mister Ed


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    #5182
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,413 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Means Of Escape wrote: »
    Neigh neigh neigh Mister Ed

    you really are a constant source of hilarity.


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    #5183
    LizT
    Registered Users Posts: 29,089 ✭✭✭✭LizT


    Mod

    Lads, cop on and keep it on topic. Post in a civil manner or don't post at all.


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    #5184
    smurfjed
    Registered Users Posts: 10,126 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    Just to make sure that people realise whats going on in Egypt these days.......
    Three policemen were wounded on Monday when a bomb exploded under a traffic sentry post near a Cairo court house, security sources said, in the latest in a series of attacks to hit the Egyptian capital.

    Bomb disposal experts defused a second device they found inside a black bag while searching the area following the blast, state news agency MENA said.

    Egyptian authorities have pledged to end a wave of Islamist militant violence that has swept across the country, but sporadic attacks on high-profile locations in the city and elsewhere have continued.

    No one claimed immediate responsibility for Monday's explosion, which occurred in the affluent northeastern Heliopolis district and which a health ministry spokesman confirmed wounded three people.

    I don't think that IH will be getting sympathy from the Egyptian population.
    CAIRO — The United States began Thursday delivery of eight F-16 fighter jets to Egypt, according to its embassy in Cairo, the first since Washington fully lifted in March a freeze on arms delivery.

    Could this be payback for releasing the US citizen a few months ago?


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    #5185
    Means Of Escape
    Registered Users Posts: 1,897 ✭✭✭Means Of Escape


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    you really are a constant source of hilarity.

    The only hilarity is that your pinched mentality has you blindly supporting an individual who has supported a militant group and have no counter argument to any of the posts placed by me or anyone else who can see through the whole charade.


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    #5186
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,413 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Means Of Escape wrote: »
    The only hilarity is that your pinched mentality has you blindly supporting an individual who has supported a militant group and have no counter argument to any of the posts placed by me or anyone else who can see through the whole charade.

    i think you might want to actually read some of my posts. you seem to think i have been supporting young Ibrahim. nothing could be further from the truth.


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    #5187
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Think you need to look up international law. In the eyes of the Egyptian legal system, he is recognised as an Egyptian citizen. It's down to the kindness of the Egyptians that the Irish consulate have any access to him at all.

    If they wanted to the Egyptians could deny the Irish consulate any visits, or any information, and it would be perfectly legal and within their remit to do so.
    It just shows that the Egyptians want to be seen as fair in their dealings with the militant terrorists but they can't do right in some peoples eyes.
    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Neither was it Under the MB they were in the process of giving the President absolute power. What one thinks of their legal system is ones right. But A person cannot go to a country incite violence then expect a Green shirt to get you out once you have been rumbled as a MB supporter. The video evidence has sunk him no need for anything else. We have laws here to do with inciting violence.

    The MB are a terrorist organisation.
    As we were always told "When In Rome....." You follow the laws of the land you find yourself in or face their justice which might not be the cosy cushy number you expected!
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    :confused:whats your point? Dual citizens typically see themselves as having two homes. Immigrants the world over who settle in another country don't just turn their back on their heritage overnight.
    If you dirty your bib in one of your "dual" countries you get treated as a citizen of that country and can be denied any help or contact from consular or other officials of your other country, this is the way it has always been regardless of what the countries are or the colour of your religion or skin!
    end of the road wrote: »
    no an irish citizen is being held in a country with an illegitimate government, where he has no chance of a fair just trial, but a trial based on mostly made up "evidence" to ensure a required verdict by that government
    They have no need to make up evidence, this man and his sisters have provided enough evidence to convict him and them and rightly so!
    end of the road wrote: »
    no, he is technically irish Egyptian because he is technically irish Egyptian. he is as irish Egyptian as you and me, and one will accept it.



    nonsense, its about being simply irish Egyptian regardless of whatever. irish Egyptian is irish Egyptian is irish Egyptian.



    is it? have the government little interest?



    so no more then they would do for any citizen including this chap?
    The Irish Government have done more for this terrorist and his family than all the other worthy causes together!

    This waster is wasting good resources of the Irish department of foreign affairs that would be far better spent on far more worthy causes, he should not be seen again until after his trial when the Irish consul can ask for him to serve any sentence in an Irish prison
    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Are we forgetting the video evidence now ? Recorded on their own devices ? If one only attended a protest why did they end up on stage as Guest speakers ?
    They were booked to appear at those rallys because they had speeches all prepared and expected to be speaking!
    DarkyHughes wrote: »
    You no who the Hawks are I'm not going to name names. But people like myself & "end of the road" believe in a little thing called diplomacy and think it should be used as soon as possible to bring this kid home to Dublin, the place he loves.
    A few years slopping out in "the Joy" will do him no harm at all!
    RichardCeann wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irish-man-held-in-spanish-jail-over-500kg-cocaine-discovery-released-after-two-years-31369312.html

    And the Halawas have the nerve to accuse the government of ignoring their brothers case as he isn't ethnically Irish. He's received much more assistance and attention than most.
    More than he deserved!
    DeadHand wrote: »
    Political correctness has poisoned honest discourse in this country to the extent that our media and government are providing unconditional support for what is fundamentally a fascist.

    The Irish Left, government and media have allied themselves with misogyny, homophobia and sectarianism in this case.
    These Muslim Brotherhood would murder half of us in our beds for our thoughts and beliefs and our western ways Civil Rights. The Homosexuals(Myself included) and adulterers would be first to be stoned to death!

    Why has the iman of Clonskeagh not come out publicly against the Muslim Brotherhood?


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    #5188
    DeadHand
    Registered Users Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Why has the iman of Clonskeagh not come out publicly against the Muslim Brotherhood?

    They are ideological comrades.

    Clonskeagh wishes to eventually impose the same type of religious tyranny on Ireland as the MB attempted to impose on Egypt.

    We should all be grateful that the Egyptian people stood up against the forces of ignorance and intolerance despite the best efforts of the odious, lying Islamist Halawi and his equally abhorrent family.


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    #5189
    DeadHand
    Registered Users Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    These Muslim Brotherhood would murder half of us in our beds for our thoughts and beliefs and our western ways Civil Rights. The Homosexuals(Myself included) and adulterers would be first to be stoned to death!

    Yet, the Irish Left backs this Islamist unconditionally and, by extension, his fascist comrades in the MB. They do this fresh from campaigning passionately for the Yes vote in the marriage referendum. Now they happily leap into bed with people who would not only deny homosexuals the right to marry but would have them swinging from the nearest lamppost.

    Or thrown from a great height, to give them the treatment prescribed in Islam.


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    #5190
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    They have no need to make up evidence

    yes they do
    foggy_lad wrote: »
    this man and his sisters have provided enough evidence to convict him and them

    no they haven't
    foggy_lad wrote: »
    and rightly so!

    not rightly so. they are not guilty
    foggy_lad wrote: »
    The Irish Government have done more for this terrorist and his family than all the other worthy causes together!

    the irish government have done what they can for this innocent boy.
    foggy_lad wrote: »
    This waster is wasting good resources of the Irish department of foreign affairs that would be far better spent on far more worthy causes,

    this innocent boy hasn't wasted any resources and his case is as worthy as the rest.
    foggy_lad wrote: »
    he should not be seen again until after his trial when the Irish consul can ask for him to serve any sentence in an Irish prison

    he should be seen as many times as is needed.
    foggy_lad wrote: »
    A few years slopping out in "the Joy" will do him no harm at all!

    not when he isn't guilty
    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Why has the iman of Clonskeagh not come out publicly against the Muslim Brotherhood?

    why should he. plenty of us to criticize the muslim brotherhood

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #5191
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    end of the road wrote: »
    yes they do



    no they haven't



    not rightly so. they are not guilty



    the irish government have done what they can for this innocent boy.


    this innocent boy hasn't wasted any resources and his case is as worthy as the rest.



    he should be seen as many times as is needed.



    not when he isn't guilty



    why should he. plenty of us to criticize the muslim brotherhood

    If one is going to keep saying this please give a Citation ?


This discussion has been closed.
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