Irish Teen Fears Execution in Egypt

K.Flyer

end of the road wrote: »

[...]
They are not guilty
[...]
this innocent boy.
[...]
this innocent boy
[...]
he isn't guilty
[...]

Ok.. lets keep it simple, (again)

There is enough video and print in the public domain, including direct quotation of the Halawa sisters, to show that the Halawas were actively engaged in the demonstrations.
Ibrahim himself gives a passionate speech about how he and his companions are prepared to Fight to the last bullet.
Its not made up, and thats from the videos and print that has not been redacted or removed.

So, I ask you, where does your interpretation of "innocent" and "not guilty" come from.
In his own words, he says that he was there, he was involved, he was prepared to fight.

darkpagandeath

K.Flyer wrote: »

Ok.. lets keep it simple, (again)

There is enough video and print in the public domain, including direct quotation of the Halawa sisters, to show that the Halawas were actively engaged in the demonstrations.
Ibrahim himself gives a passionate speech about how he and his companions are prepared to Fight to the last bullet.
Its not made up, and thats from the videos and print that has not been redacted or removed.

So, I ask you, where does your interpretation of "innocent" and "not guilty" come from.
In his own words, he says that he was there, he was involved, he was prepared to fight.

Hang on, You mean that's not videos of what normal people get up to on holiday ?

K.Flyer

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Hang on, You mean that's not videos of what normal people get up to on holiday ?

Ahh look, you know the score...

You're taking in the sights of the city, heading down to the post office to post some post cards, next thing there's a bit of argey bargey going down with the locals, you spot a big trailer with a big P.A. system and you can't help yourself but jump up onto it.
Next thing you find yourself singing a little song to the crowd, maybe the Egyptian version of "The Fields of Athenry", the crowd always like that one, they like you, after all, you are from Ireland, whats not to like.
Then you give them a bit of a pep talk, "viva la revolution" on all that stuff, then head off home for yer dinner.

Yep, every time I go away it's aways the same.

On a serious note, we were actually in the centre of Cairo a number of years ago when the proverbial hit the fan. We were in the museam and everyone got ushered out and were told to leave the area. The centre of the city went into lock down and the army had the area surrounded.
Didn't see any trailers with P.A. systems, so we left them to it..

smurfjed

Again just to remind some people what the Egyptian government is having to deal with.....

Depraved ISIS supporters took to social media to share a photograph purporting to show the body of 30-year-old Tomislav Salopek, who has been held by militants in Sinai province since July 22 after being kidnapped in the capital Cairo.
The gruesome image appears to show Mr Salopek's severed head placed on his back

old_aussie

K.Flyer wrote: »

Ok.. lets keep it simple, (again)


Ibrahim himself gives a passionate speech about how he and his companions are prepared to Fight to the last bullet.

Oblige him, I've got a spare bullet.

Ash.J.Williams

smurfjed wrote: »

Again just to remind some people what the Egyptian government is having to deal with.....

that's freaky as i've been there and considered it safe...

BuilderPlumber

smurfjed wrote: »

Again just to remind some people what the Egyptian government is having to deal with.....

In general, the Arab Spring has not been a success. The countries that got rid of their old regimes realised they were better off with them than without them. Perhaps, that should have been obvious (Iran 1978 v Iran 1980, Iraq 2001 v Iraq 2004) but nonetheless, history repeated itself in 2011 to date in various ME and NA nations.

No doubt, all of these places were better off with the likes of Saddam Hussein, Mohammed Reza Pahlavi, Colonel Muammar Gadafi, Hosni Mubarak, Najibullah, etc. None were perfect and all were ruthless but they upheld the law. A period of military rule should have come about in Iran in 1979. Bush should not have invaded Iraq in 2003. And Egypt is right to assert its military rule to stop an emerging threat from extremists who would take hold bit by bit. There are many Iranians of a certain generation wondering why their army did not do the same back in 1979.

Now, what of the remaining ME regimes? Saudi Arabia is a hellhole dominated by a filthy family of greedy pigs who hide behind voodoo as repressive as ISIS's. But, their downfall would lead to an even worse regime and Mad Max style misery for the world. No oil. Iran would have been better off with Pahlavi 3 if thing had worked out differently but without that happening, the current regime should be reformed rather than overthrown. That's what's happening at the moment. If current Shah, er leader, Khamenei was overthrown, ISIS and Taliban would cause chaos on the Iraq and Afghan border areas and chaos would ensue. Chances are, the country would get the Mojahedin e Khalq as government and these are not much different to the IRI in its old days and much worse than the current incarnation of the IRI. Afghanistan likewise would have been better off communist or royal but failing that, I too hope its current system can reform and the Taliban extremism is isolated. The Gulf monarchies are mini-Saudi Arabias controlled by greedy kings but the alternatives again seem much worse. Syria is better off with Assad as once again, no trustworthy opposition exists here either. Turkey is obviously better off as is as are the ex Soviet republics.

Perhaps, the sole ME state that should have a leadership change at present is Israel. Netanyahu is a liability who is the very mirror image extremism needs to take advantage of. His warmongering and negative attitudes scupper reform in emerging democracies like Iran and serve to recruit more footsoldiers for the so-called 'Islamic' cause for the ISIS's and al Qaeda's of this world.

Wright

http://theantimedia.org/cassius-methyl-ireland-refuses-extradite-man-inhumane-us-prison-system/

I'll just leave this here, as I find it relevant. Irish government taking action to ensure the safety of people under its care.

Person is from Algiers and the U.S. wants him on terror charges, but he's done his time here already, so the Irish government is refusing.

This is how we do. We are a part of Europe. Our primary concern is the safety and welfare of all humans. The US is known for its privately owned hell-holes. I'm proud of the Irish government for taking this step.

ohnonotgmail

Wright wrote: »

http://theantimedia.org/cassius-methyl-ireland-refuses-extradite-man-inhumane-us-prison-system/

I'll just leave this here, as I find it relevant. Irish government taking action to ensure the safety of people under its care.

Person is from Algiers and the U.S. wants him on terror charges, but he's done his time here already, so the Irish government is refusing.

This is how we do. We are a part of Europe. Our primary concern is the safety and welfare of all humans. The US is known for its privately owned hell-holes. I'm proud of the Irish government for taking this step.

what relevance is this to young Ibrahim in an eqyptian prison?

KingBrian2

Wright wrote: »

http://theantimedia.org/cassius-methyl-ireland-refuses-extradite-man-inhumane-us-prison-system/

I'll just leave this here, as I find it relevant. Irish government taking action to ensure the safety of people under its care.

Person is from Algiers and the U.S. wants him on terror charges, but he's done his time here already, so the Irish government is refusing.

This is how we do. We are a part of Europe. Our primary concern is the safety and welfare of all humans. The US is known for its privately owned hell-holes. I'm proud of the Irish government for taking this step.

I agree we should stand for human rights everyway but let our laws reflect our values. if we had a consistent policy we would object to the death penalty in all Nations including places like China, Iran and the US all still using capital punishment to eliminate crime.

Roger McAllen

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Hang on, You mean that's not videos of what normal people get up to on holiday ?

no

no he's innocent

he didn't do anything

he just went to visit the pyramids

also going on a camel ride stopping to pose for a novelty photograph

the innocent child

he was on family summer holidays

etc...

skooterblue2

Here is a though......
If there is this much crap and the 7 videos that the family had pulled from YouTube.
Then all the information that we had and then all the stuff we are not being shown..... Imagine what the Egyptian Intelligence Service have on him with electronic surveilance (surveilance, Phone Tapping, email hacking, blogging) etc etc...... Then there is Daddys file...... must be a thick as the Mumbai Phone directory and then the files associated Daddys friends. This will be an open and shut case in 10 years, when they finally get to Trial......

ohnonotgmail

Small piece in the Herald tonight about the 2nd anniversary of young ibrahims incarceration. Still peddling the same nonsense about him facing the death penalty. Superb journalism from the herald there.

AlekSmart

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Small piece in the Herald tonight about the 2nd anniversary of young ibrahims incarceration. Still peddling the same nonsense about him facing the death penalty. Superb journalism from the Herald there.

The Irish media are suffering a rare incident of their readership not giving a hoot about the line they are attempting to peddle.

Ibrahim Hawala's "plight" has not captured the Irish public imagination,simply due to the reality of the matter not matching the family's accounts.

He's not facing the Death Penalty,and never has faced it,based upon the charges laid against him.

In addition,the reality of his recieving over 40 visits from Irish Consular Staff does'nt exactly support the narrative of the Sisters either.

The availability of video evidence of the family's speechmaking also laid bare the "caught up on holiday"tale.

The Irish Government involvement is likely to see Ibrahim convicted of some of the charges,accquitted of others and handed down a custodial sentence equal to the amount of time he's been a guest of the Egyptian State so far.

I'd be surprised if he then was'nt bundled into an Irish Embassy vehicle and brought straight to the airport for his flight "Home".

This would provide the necessary Publicity Material for all parties,with the Irish Government perhaps laying on an Air Corps plane for the return journey.

The Dublin "Homecoming" will most likely be the major event,with many speakers and loud huzzah's for the returning hero.

Unless,of course,those damned Egyptians,decide to proffer additional charges in the meantime :eek:

K.Flyer

AlekSmart wrote: »

[...]
I'd be surprised if he then was'nt bundled into an Irish Embassy vehicle and brought straight to the airport for his flight "Home".
[...]

And probably told Never to set foot in Egypt again, followed by a swift kick in the hole.

skooterblue2

K.Flyer wrote: »

And probably told Never to set foot in Egypt again, followed by a swift kick in the hole.

Most likely be stripped of his passport. Probably have to serve the time of the sisters too. Have to remember you are outside the EU and their rules. Try to subvert the states is the worst crime to be caught with.

ohnonotgmail

AlekSmart wrote: »

The Irish media are suffering a rare incident of their readership not giving a hoot about the line they are attempting to peddle.

...

i think you're right. it was a tiny piece on page 2. nothing important is printed on page 2.

AlekSmart

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Most likely be stripped of his passport. Probably have to serve the time of the sisters too. Have to remember you are outside the EU and their rules. Try to subvert the states is the worst crime to be caught with.

Doubt it.

Be under no illusion,but the Irish Government's decision to ignore the strident harpy like calls for aggressive action,and instead pursue the diplomatic route WILL bring results.

The current Egyptian regime,although nowhere near our notions of twee democratic governance,is realistic,and somewhat more accomodating of this sort of stuff than many would care to admit.

Egypto-Irish trade and commerce links form by far and away the most compelling case to get this stuff done & dusted,which is exactly what I suspect will occur.

skooterblue2

AlekSmart wrote: »

Doubt it.

Remember Brian Keenan? He was guilty of something in a similar field.
The Irish Government had no interest in his case either.
If he gets out it gives carte blanc to every little Johnny Jihadist to go out there and come home. Stamp out this hard and fast. If anything little Ibrihim will come back more hardened and more irate.

this is really a matter for the Egyptians

ohnonotgmail

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Remember Brian Keenan? He was guilty of something in a similar field.
The Irish Government had no interest in his case either.
If he gets out it gives carte blanc to every little Johnny Jihadist to go out there and come home. Stamp out this hard and fast. If anything little Ibrihim will come back more hardened and more irate.

this is really a matter for the Egyptians

one might be even tempted to say "this is an islamic matter"

RichardCeann

Interesting article. Perhaps it could go some way as to explain why O'Gorman, of AI and an avid gay rights activist, is campaigning so vigorously for the young Irish holidaymakers release from prison.

A senior Amnesty International official has been found to have private links with the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and revolutionary Islamists accused of plotting a coup in an Arab state.

Amnesty’s director of faith and human rights, Yasmin Hussein, stayed overnight at the residence of a Muslim Brotherhood advisor during an official visit to Egypt in direct contravention of Amnesty guidelines.

Her husband was also named as an alleged Islamist in documents relating to a 2013 sedition trial in the United Arab Emirates.

Hussein, who was until recently the charity’s director of international advocacy and among its leading voices at the UN, denies being an Islamist and has said she is “vehemently opposed” to raising money for “any organization that supports terrorism.”

An investigation published by The Times claimed that Hussein, 51, held a private meeting with a Muslim Brotherhood government official during an Amnesty mission to Egypt in 2012.

Full article here: https://www.rt.com/uk/312630-amnesty-international-muslim-brotherhood/

skooterblue2

RichardCeann wrote: »

Interesting article. Perhaps it could go some way as to explain why O'Gorman, of AI and an avid gay rights activist, is campaigning so vigorously for the young Irish holidaymakers release from prison.

Well One reason is the organisation relies completely on donations from supporters. Colm O Gorman on his (€200k+) salary will tell them anything they will believe. He has no intention of getting himoutbut with 70k muslims in Ireland the coffers will be full. who really cares if Lassie doesnt come home. He has his salary Egyptians are going to make up for lost time with Daddy and the sisters.

All the time the coffers fill up

BehindTheScenes

Every time I read about this fella i can't hell but hear 'off with his head!' and then laugh to myself.

RichardCeann

An Irish delegate is heading to Egypt today to discuss the case with the Egyptian authorities.

The head of the Foreign Affairs Committee, Deputy Pat Breen is travelling to Egypt today for a series of meetings to discuss the case of Ibrahim Halawa.

It is now two years since the 19-year-old from Dublin was arrested in Cairo, and his trial date has been delayed several times.

There have been calls for the Irish Government to put more pressure on Egypt to release the teenager.

Deputy Breen said that a diplomatic solution is the best way forward.

"The Government have said that, and have made it quite clear, that quiet, diplomatic progress is the best way to move forward in this case," he said.

"That the advice they're getting from experts, that the advice they've got from similar cases in the past and I believe that this is the way forward as well, and I think it's important that we continue to have bilateral relations with Egypt."

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/irish-officials-depart-for-egypt-to-discuss-halawa-case-691490.html

Minister Flanagan has an article in todays Indo outlining the need for restraint and diplomatic tact in dealing with the case.

My priority is also to do what we can to secure Ibrahim's release. Until this outcome is secured, we continue to care for his welfare while he remains in detention. Significant efforts have been, and continue to be, made in achieving those objectives. These exceptional efforts are being made because he was a minor at the time of his arrest, the mass nature of his trial and the length of time he has spent in detention.

My department is in close contact and continues to work with the Halawa family and I know we are all guided by a powerful conviction to do what we consider to be in Ibrahim's best interest. My own actions have been informed by discussions that both I and officials in my department have had with the Egyptian authorities, and through the information we have received from our international partners with citizens in similar circumstances.

The lengthy delays and the nature of the trial are clearly frustrating to the Halawa family, to their many supporters, and obviously to Ibrahim himself. It is also frustrating for me personally, and for the dedicated team of officials working on this case. But the Irish Government cannot intervene in a foreign judicial process, just as we would not allow a foreign government to interfere in our own. The sensitive nature of the legal proceedings demands that we exercise restraint in our public comment in the interests of our citizen.

That restraint, despite criticism, belies the real and substantial work that my department is quietly doing to lay the groundwork for Ibrahim's release. Consular cases should never become political footballs. It is not by megaphone diplomacy or political grandstanding that Ibrahim will be released - rather by painstaking preparation and appropriate intervention at the right time. Ibrahim's welfare, his prolonged detention, and the nature of the legal proceedings against him have, nonetheless, been repeatedly raised with the Egyptian authorities since his arrest.

Full article here: http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/the-government-is-doing-all-it-can-to-get-ibrahim-halawa-back-to-his-family-but-restraint-is-required-31455754.html

Ash.J.Williams

the hate in here is unreal...you'd swear you are (mostly) calling for his execution

ohnonotgmail

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

the hate in here is unreal...you'd swear you are (mostly) calling for his execution

who has called for his execution?

DeadHand

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

the hate in here is unreal...you'd swear you are (mostly) calling for his execution

Quote one post calling for his execution.

The man is an Islamist with strong ties to a fascist, jihadic organisation. He was caught on video agitating a sectarian mob, that had earlier been burning down Christian homes and temples, in some of the most violent language imaginable.

No-one here has called for his execution but plenty are displaying a healthy cynicism toward this young Islamist, his lying family, an utterly submissive media, the various "useful fool" quangos and the government's reaction which is unprecedented in its fervour.

Ash.J.Williams

DeadHand wrote: »

Quote one post calling for his execution.

The man is an Islamist with strong ties to a fascist, jihadic organisation. He was caught on video agitating a sectarian mob, that had earlier been burning down Christian homes and temples, in some of the most violent language imaginable.

No-one here has called for his execution but plenty are displaying a healthy cynicism toward this young Islamist, his lying family, an utterly submissive media, the various "useful fool" quangos and the government's reaction which is unprecedented in its fervour.

i said "you'd swear you are "mostly" calling for his execution" meaning i get the impression that's what you wish for. Certainly wishing a life of pain on him. Let him out ta f*ck....and if he misbehaves again...do what you like.

ohnonotgmail

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

i said "you'd swear you are "mostly" calling for his execution" meaning i get the impression that's what you wish for. Certainly wishing a life of pain on him. Let him out ta f*ck....and if he misbehaves again...do what you like.

and who said that?

skooterblue2

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

i said "you'd swear you are "mostly" calling for his execution" meaning i get the impression that's what you wish for. Certainly wishing a life of pain on him. Let him out ta f*ck....and if he misbehaves again...do what you like.

In the eyes of the state trying to subvert the civil power or the government by instigating civil unrest and undemocratic means is more serious than rape, murder or drug dealing. It is completely unrealistic for there not to be consequences and repercussions.