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Irish Teen Fears Execution in Egypt

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    #5312
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    end of the road wrote: »
    they were democratically elected. democracy worked. its not as if you actually care about the MB considering you support the military junta who are effectively the same

    Is creating a way to rule like a dictator democratic now ?


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    #5313
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    323 wrote: »
    Funny indeed, how this guy is continuously referred to as a teenager, as if he is a child. In most of the world, even Ireland I believe, he's of an age to be treated as an adult.

    So. Regardless of skin color, religion, being an Irish citizen or not, he's therefore responsibility for his own actions.

    Rather than wasting consular time on this guy just because he holds an Irish passport. Think it time Ireland should be considering legislation similar to what Denmark is introducing, Denmark to get tough on foreign fighters' 'treason'
    treason is an illegitimate redundant charge that belongs back in history. it means nothing and is irrelevant in a modern world. the irish government aren't wasting any time on this irish citizen, any time spent on him is worth everything

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #5314
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    What's that supposed to mean ?
    did you not read the post? it says exactly what it says

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #5315
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    None of the going over to protest is true apparently they were on holiday. Protest are fine, Governments tend to not like the whole burning buildings down killing police and military personnel funny that. Snipers were shooting off the top of the building they were caught in. Inciting violence is generally frowned on here as well.
    it was the military junta burning down buildings. police and military were killed in self defence once they opened fire on protesters. they deserved to be put down in self defence to protect the freedom of protest. the snipers were military and police snipers. there was no Inciting of violence apart from the government

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #5316
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    end of the road wrote: »
    treason is an illegitimate redundant charge that belongs back in history. it means nothing and is irrelevant in a modern world. the irish government aren't wasting any time on this irish citizen, any time spent on him is worth everything

    We have that here best get off to the Dail to bring down this illegitimate government.


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    #5317
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    end of the road wrote: »
    it was the military junta burning down buildings. police and military were killed in self defence once they opened fire on protesters. they deserved to be put down in self defence to protect the freedom of protest. the snipers were military and police snipers. there was no Inciting of violence apart from the government

    Link


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    #5318
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    That's a blatant lie, the military were actually protecting those inside form the lads whose property they had been burning down in the area. Did one forget the snipers on the roof as well ?

    On the second point so we should storm the Dail now as well ? Our legal system is terrible. Loads of human rights abuse here Ireland has been infront of the UN recently.
    oits the truth, the military were told by the government to kill all in the mosq once all foreigners were out.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #5319
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    end of the road wrote: »
    did you not read the post? it says exactly what it says

    What is "For the likes of you" supposed to mean exactly.


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    #5320
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    end of the road wrote: »
    oits the truth, the military were told by the government to kill all in the mosq once all foreigners were out.

    link


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    #5321
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    WarZ wrote: »
    It's more just the fact that some of the comments it has been attracting are absolutely disgusting and really reflect badly on the boards.ie community.

    But again that's a good thing - it's better to know how people feel about an issue regardless of how repulsive some may find those views. Censorship of opinions breeds not only ignorance, but a false belief that no campaigning or lobbying is needed on whatever that issue might be.


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    #5322
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    None of the going over to protest is true apparently they were on holiday. Protest are fine, Governments tend to not like the whole burning buildings down killing police and military personnel funny that. Snipers were shooting off the top of the building they were caught in. Inciting violence is generally frowned on here as well.

    In this case, the army forcefully dispersed peaceful protests and banned a legitimate political organisation. That should be grounds for the West to totally refuse any friendly terms whatsoever with the current Egyptian regime. They do not deserve respect, regardless of their motives for taking power in the first place.

    Should we not be cheering ordinary people who are willing to stand up for freedom?


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    #5323
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    In this case, the army forcefully dispersed peaceful protests and banned a legitimate political organisation. That should be grounds for the West to totally refuse any friendly terms whatsoever with the current Egyptian regime. They do not deserve respect, regardless of their motives for taking power in the first place.

    Should we not be cheering ordinary people who are willing to stand up for freedom?

    Yes of course, But rabble rousing and inciting violence is not something we support here. Neither do we support killing people like police army. I would not support violent riots would you ?


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    #5324
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,413 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    In this case, the army forcefully dispersed peaceful protests and banned a legitimate political organisation. That should be grounds for the West to totally refuse any friendly terms whatsoever with the current Egyptian regime. They do not deserve respect, regardless of their motives for taking power in the first place.

    would that be the legitimate political party that tried to suspend the constitution and create a dictatorship? we have different ideas of legitimacy in that case.

    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Should we not be cheering ordinary people who are willing to stand up for freedom?

    they were standing up for the freedom to create a dictatorship. nothing else.


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    #5325
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Apparently he is very naive and stupid, even though being an Engineering student.

    Correction ...... he never completed his Leaving cert and never got to UCD/Trinity. The Arab spring was in April before he did his leaving cert.
    These were aspirations rather than actual facts portrayed in the media.


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    #5326
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    end of the road wrote: »
    oits the truth, the military were told by the government to kill all in the mosq once all foreigners were out.

    Is there any reliable documented proof of what you are saying?
    Have you seen proof of this on a dependable media?
    Can you post a link to it?

    The reason I ask this is because I have not seen any mention of this in any of the DofFA statements.


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    #5327
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    K.Flyer wrote: »
    Is there any reliable documented proof of what you are saying?
    Have you seen proof of this on a dependable media?
    Can you post a link to it?

    The reason I ask this is because I have not seen any mention of this in any of the DofFA statements.

    I have only seen it here and in relation to one poster.


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    #5328
    emo72
    Registered Users Posts: 6,273 ✭✭✭emo72


    end of the road wrote: »
    oits the truth, the military were told by the government to kill all in the mosq once all foreigners were out.

    where would it be even possible to get that information? unless you have it first hand.


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    #5329
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    WarZ wrote: »
    Maybe boards.ie should close this thread, there are posters literally cheerleading the execution of a 19 year old Irish citizen. It's a bit of a sick thread and reflects on the boards.ie community very badly in my opinion.

    It's only a matter of time before major media outlets pick up on this thread with posters calling for his execution, expressing their sadness he called off his hunger strike and is still alive and labelling Ibrahim and his family everything from being scum to terrorists etc.

    It is worth pointing out that Ibrahim Hawalla currently does NOT face charges which carry the Death Penalty (Equally a detail which could well be "picked up on by the mainstream Irish Media).

    In choosing to focus upon a few OTT posts concerning ill-will towards Mr Halawa,there is a danger of disregarding those who simply do not find the accounts of this family to ring true.

    The arguement appears to boil down to preferences about who governs Egypt.

    Ireland recognises the current Egyptian regime as legitimate.

    In common with most Western Democracies,Ireland maintains full consular relations with this Egyptian Government.

    The Irish Consulate in Cairo has been FULLY engaged with this family since their arrest.

    The then Irish Ambassador,Isolde Moylan,brokered a deal which secured the release of ALL of the imprisoned family members,but which was taken up only by the females involved.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/egypt-rules-out-special-treatment-for-irish-teenager-31211355.html
    Ms Gendi claimed that the then-Irish ambassador to Egypt, Isolde Moylan, had negotiated safe passage from the mosque for Halawa and his three sisters.

    "They should have accepted the safe haven they were offered," said Ms Gendi.

    Halawa's sister Somaia (29) confirmed that embassy officials had told them by phone that their safe passage from the mosque had been guaranteed.

    In addition,even after the Halawa sisters left their Egyptian home,the Irish Consulate continued to be fully involved with the Egyptian authorities on his behalf.

    Mr Hawala's case has been regularly raised at Ministerial level,and also by the Irish President,Micheal D O'Higgins.

    In adition to this Governmental attention,Ibrahim Hawala also has a local Legal Team,in addition to the monitors of Amnesty International.

    The Hawala sisters,upon their return from Egypt,have mounted a prolonged and strident campaign maintaining their innocence,however,when repeatedly asked for clarification on Video and Aural evidence relating to their roles in the protests,they either failed to respond or removed the elements under discussion.

    Continually attempting to portray their involvement in the protests as something which they were drawn unwittingly into,whilst on holiday,has been definitively shown to be innacurate.

    Making demands of the Irish State,and accusing both State and sceptical bystanders of racism and xenophobia did little to build upon any latent "support for the underdog" which Ireland supposedly has a reputation for.

    Perhaps if the Hawalla's and their supporters displayed somewhat greater transparency in their accounts,it might be possible to accept their criticisms of the current Egyptian Government a tad more readily.

    In the meantime,I would suggest a big congratulations to Minister Charlie Flanagan,and his Consular Staff in Cairo,who have gone above and beyond their call of duty for this family.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #5330
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Mr Hawala's case has been regularly raised at Ministerial level,and also by the Irish President,Micheal D O'Higgins.

    How could it be raised from Ministerial level to Presidential level if the hobbit cannot reach for the file? In an announce ment from Aras an Uchtaran. The President has agreed to pen a strongly worded poem about the Egyptian Government...... that will show them Juntaists..... West side!!!


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    #5331
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,413 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    How could it be raised from Ministerial level to Presidential level if the hobbit cannot reach for the file? In an announce ment from Aras an Uchtaran. The President has agreed to pen a strongly worded poem about the Egyptian Government...... that will show them Juntaists..... West side!!!


    Ah now thats a bit harsh on Michael D. He's an idealist. Very much in short supply in irish politics.


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    #5332
    Patrick Wheelock
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 138 ✭✭Patrick Wheelock


    War Z wants to shut down debate. Typical left wing tactic espoused by the likes of Hugh McCabe.


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    #5333
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Patrick Wheelock wrote: »
    War Z wants to shut down debate. Typical left wing tactic espoused by the likes of Hugh McCabe.

    Ha I never noticed at all... Oh wait :pac:


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    #5334
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Yes of course, But rabble rousing and inciting violence is not something we support here. Neither do we support killing people like police army. I would not support violent riots would you ?

    Their are laws designed to prevent such actions known as (sedition laws) they really need to be upgraded for the 21st century. Some classes of people have to be removed from the list while those that actually pose a threat to society lets lock them up. The Muslim Brotherhood fits the description of a terrorist organisation to the letter. They actively support overthrowing the gvt, they want to emulate Saudi Arabia and they well known to others to be capable of committing heinous crimes.


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    #5335
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Patrick Wheelock wrote: »
    War Z wants to shut down debate. Typical left wing tactic espoused by the likes of Hugh McCabe.
    its not "typical left wing" anything, as the right are into the old shutting down of debate themselves

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #5336
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    Their are laws designed to prevent such actions known as (sedition laws) they really need to be upgraded for the 21st century. Some classes of people have to be removed from the list while those that actually pose a threat to society lets lock them up. The Muslim Brotherhood fits the description of a terrorist organisation to the letter. They actively support overthrowing the gvt, they want to emulate Saudi Arabia and they well known to others to be capable of committing heinous crimes.

    Aye most secular Egyptians saw what way it was going and had a rethink of the guy in power. Most wanted nothing to do with hard line religion and beliefs and laws.


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    #5337
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    end of the road wrote: »
    its not "typical left wing" anything, as the right are into the old shutting down of debate themselves

    Has one stormed the Dail yet in relation to Irelands HR issues or Terrible legal system and courts ? or having Treason on the books ? You know as one gave them as Reasons in relation to Egypt.


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    #5338
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    WarZ wrote: »
    I still don't think you're getting it mate! :D

    If you actually read the post that I posted you will see I have DIRECTLY quoted one such comment.

    I can't make this any clearer for you.

    The person you quoted asked how he was still alive when he went on "hunger strike" months ago. Hardly "cheerleading his execution" is it.


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    #5339
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Yes of course, But rabble rousing and inciting violence is not something we support here. Neither do we support killing people like police army. I would not support violent riots would you ?

    If they were against an illegitimate and repressive regime? 100% absolutely. That's how Ireland earned its freedom from a similar regime.


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    #5340
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    would that be the legitimate political party that tried to suspend the constitution and create a dictatorship? we have different ideas of legitimacy in that case.




    they were standing up for the freedom to create a dictatorship. nothing else.

    It was the military junta who suspended the constitution, not the MB. I agree that the MB were fairly appalling in office which is why I don't necessarily oppose their forced removal from office - provided that they are free to run in any subsequent election so that the people, all of the people, can choose whether or not they want them gone.

    Banning a political party, imprisoning its members, and violently crushing protest and dissent is not ok. The military junta should be utterly shunned by every country calling itself a democracy.


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    #5341
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Aye most secular Egyptians saw what way it was going and had a rethink of the guy in power. Most wanted nothing to do with hard line religion and beliefs and laws.

    And if that was the case, then they would have voted against the Brotherhood in an election following Morsi's deposition. We will never know whether this would have happened, because the military junta banned the organisation as an entity, killed a bunch of its members, imprisoned others, and refused to allow any protests about this.

    That's not ok in any country which calls itself a democracy. You cannot have the military deciding who is and who is not allowed to run for election - if you do, then the people do not have a proper choice about who to elect.


This discussion has been closed.
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