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Irish Teen Fears Execution in Egypt

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    #662
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Yes it is, The laws of the country are the laws. Illegitimate government or no the last government had the same penalty.
    no, if a government is illegitimate, anything it implaments is also illegitimate and invalid

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #663
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    end of the road wrote: »
    had he left, the illegitimate military junta would have slaughtered all the men women and children in the mosq, as thats the type of wild animals they are

    Like the previous government then. I don't really get your point on this.


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    #664
    Jester252
    Registered Users Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭Jester252


    end of the road wrote: »
    depending on the crime. if its a small one and it would cost to much they may not. either way the irish government is legitimate, and we don't slaughter people here for protesting (all though some would like us to do so) so its not comparible

    There is a big difference between protesting and fighting with a terrorist linked group.


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    #665
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    end of the road wrote: »
    no, if a government is illegitimate, anything it implaments is also illegitimate and invalid

    arguing over semantics will get us nowhere the last government did and would do the exact same thing so what's the point being made here ?


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    #666
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Jester252 wrote: »
    There is a big difference between protesting and fighting with a terrorist linked group.
    everyones a terrorist these days, its hard to keep up to who exactly is as such.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #667
    Jester252
    Registered Users Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭Jester252


    end of the road wrote: »
    had he left, the illegitimate military junta would have slaughtered all the men women and children in the mosq, as thats the type of wild animals they are

    What are you talking about? An wannabe Irish yuppy being there isn't the reason people weren't killed.


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    #668
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    end of the road wrote: »
    depending on the crime. if its a small one and it would cost to much they may not. either way the irish government is legitimate, and we don't slaughter people here for protesting (all though some would like us to do so) so its not comparible

    Why is the Irish government legitimate?

    And why is the Egyptian one not - given it was elected?


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    #669
    Jester252
    Registered Users Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭Jester252


    end of the road wrote: »
    everyones a terrorist these days, its hard to keep up to who exactly is as such.

    A group with ISIS connections is a good place to start.


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    #670
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Why is the Irish government legitimate?

    because they were democratically elected and don't slaughter their own people.
    Jawgap wrote: »
    why is the Egyptian one not - given it was elected?

    because the military junta forced itself into power. the muslim brotherhood while i don't have time for them was democratically elected at least.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #671
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    end of the road wrote: »
    because they were democratically elected and don't slaughter their own people.



    because the military junta forced itself into power. the muslim brotherhood while i don't have time for them was democratically elected at least.

    Didn't the extent of the water protests remove our government's mandate?

    Also the current President of Egypt was democratically elected (Egypt operated an executive Presidency like the US, Russia etc) - what about his election suggests he is not the leader of a legitimate administration?

    The country also has a functioning court and legal system and the crimes the guy is charged with - according to the IT- are not political.


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    #672
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Didn't the extent of the water protests remove our government's mandate?

    not that i know of. all though i hope an early election can be called but its unlikely.
    Jawgap wrote: »
    the crimes the guy is charged with - according to the IT- are not political.

    just because it says so doesn't mean they aren't political, and the charges politicaly motivated

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #673
    bjork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,554 ✭✭✭bjork


    end of the road wrote: »
    had he left, the illegitimate military junta would have slaughtered all the men women and children in the mosq, as thats the type of wild animals they are

    A few days ago the story was one of him being caught up while on an innocent family holiday when he popped out to buy a postcard, now he was saving babies?

    What will this hero do next?


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    #674
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    end of the road wrote: »
    not that i know of. all though i hope an early election can be called but its unlikely.



    just because it says so doesn't mean they aren't political, and the charges politicaly motivated

    Well according to the IT he's charged with "murder, attempted murder and destruction of public property" - crimes that would not be unrecognisable to Irish law.

    Also, again according to the IT, he wants to leave now!!! Maybe he should've taken the deal negotiated for him......


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    #675
    Grand Moff Tarkin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 862 ✭✭✭Grand Moff Tarkin


    end of the road wrote: »
    because they were democratically elected and don't slaughter their own people.



    because the military junta forced itself into power. the muslim brotherhood while i don't have time for them was democratically elected at least.

    He must be a fantastic young man to say he was over helping out the Muslim brotherhood. To be clear anyone supporting them needs to be locked away for a very long time.


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    #676
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    bjork wrote: »
    the story is one of him being caught up on a protest while on an innocent family holiday when he popped out to buy a postcard and took sanctuary in a mosq?

    yes. thats right

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #677
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Well according to the IT he's charged with "murder, attempted murder and destruction of public property" - crimes that would not be unrecognisable to Irish law.

    Also, again according to the IT, he wants to leave now!!! Maybe he should've taken the deal negotiated for him......
    yeah, but he couldn't do so as if he did, the slaughtering would have began. women children slaughtered by the ferrel military junta.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #678
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    end of the road wrote: »
    yeah, but he couldn't do so as if he did, the slaughtering would have began. women children slaughtered by the ferrel military junta.

    So won't the same 'ferrel' military junta start executing prisoners if he's released and our gaze is directed elsewhere?

    What's the objection to him remaining to face his accusers?


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    #679
    Jester252
    Registered Users Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭Jester252


    end of the road wrote: »
    yeah, but he couldn't do so as if he did, the slaughtering would have began. women children slaughtered by the ferrel military junta.

    How did a wannabe Irish yuppy stop this "evil" junta?


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    #680
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Jawgap wrote: »
    So won't the same 'ferrel' military junta start executing prisoners if he's released and our gaze is directed elsewhere?

    i couldn't be sure. corrupt governments are very unpredictable.
    Jawgap wrote: »
    What's the objection to him remaining to face his accusers?

    they are illegitimate and their accusations are invalid

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #681
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    end of the road wrote: »
    i couldn't be sure. corrupt governments are very unpredictable.



    they are illegitimate and their accusations are invalid

    Do you have any basis for any of those statements?

    How do you know they are corrupt? Illegitimate?

    Just because they don't, somehow, measure up to Irish 'democratic' standards, that makes the government there illegitimate? Who says our standards are objectively fair and universally applicable?

    You'd do well not to buy into the propaganda, and to be a bit more questioning of the story because you're being played.


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    #682
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    Please referring back to my last posthttp://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/ibrahim-halawa-future-unclear-despite-government-engagement-with-egypt-1.2052494.

    Mom is out there at the moment visiting the prized calf son. Making sure he is ok and he has reading material and get his vitamins. Daddy is a Sheik, like someone with a bit of clout? Why isnt he there? Everyone knows in the Muslim world it is men have all the clout. You would think a father would go and sort this out? Is there a reason why he wouldnt set foot in Egypt?

    Maybe Egyptian Intelligence Services would like to have a chat with him down the Kasbah? Maybe we might get to the real story behind the world Sandcastle Championships as to why they were really there and their roles in the Riot?


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    #683
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    end of the road wrote: »
    yeah, but he couldn't do so as if he did, the slaughtering would have began. women children slaughtered by the ferrel military junta.

    Should I ever get caught in a similar situation: Outside the protection of the EU. Got involved in a Riot where Police officers died and were wounded with massive damage to private and government property.

    Then the hand of God/Allah/noodley appendages of the Flying Spagetti Monster (Peace be upon the prophet), in the form of my Ambassador with a deal (no trial, jail time, criminal record, or red hot poker up the back passage) to let me go home to a country where I can vote, enjoy many more civil rights, I would say "Please take me home, I'll be a good boy and wont ever step out of line again, I will go to college and be a model citizen and be eternally grateful". As to the other people in the Mosque I would say "well its been great knowing you but I am off home for Tea and Medals, maybe we can be friends on Facebook or send cards at Christmas".

    I wonder if they will carry the trial on TG4. Bet it will be more interesting than Ras Na Run.


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    #684
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Should I ever get caught in a similar situation: Outside the protection of the EU. Got involved in a Riot where Police officers died and were wounded with massive damage to private and government property.

    Then the hand of God/Allah/noodley appendages of the Flying Spagetti Monster (Peace be upon the prophet), in the form of my Ambassador with a deal (no trial, jail time, criminal record, or red hot poker up the back passage) to let me go home to a country where I can vote, enjoy many more civil rights, I would say "Please take me home, I'll be a good boy and wont ever step out of line again, I will go to college and be a model citizen and be eternally grateful".

    fine, whatever.
    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    As to the other people in the Mosque I would say "well its been great knowing you but I am off home for Tea and Medals, maybe we can be friends on Facebook or send cards at Christmas".

    what are you on about?

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Options
    #685
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    end of the road wrote: »
    he is worth it.

    Starting to sound like l'Oreal commercial. Its stack it up for little Kummar.
    There he is in the Cairo 4 Seasons on charges of Murder and attempted murder and rioting. On the other hand Ireland has a good thing going on in Egypt. They let the EU bring Oil through the Seuz canal, they give safe passage to our tourists (millitant s4it stirrer is a different matter) and in turn they buy our Beef, IT pharmaceutical, medical devices, and assorted food prices.

    He got the deal of a life time (possibly only beaten by Liberace) and he said No I am going to be a hero. If the sentence for Murdering a Garda in Ireland was death up to a few years ago...... I wonder what it would be in Egypt today. At this stage, if he has turned down the Irish ambassador... not even the Flying Spagetti Monster could save him now, unless we hire Ben Matlock.


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    #686
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    end of the road wrote: »
    what are you on about?

    In a similar position, I would have taken the deal and and said to the other people "not my problem".

    But hey that is just me and I am sort of big into the ole Self Preservation Society


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    #687
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    Earlier in the thread you said...
    end of the road wrote: »
    [....]
    nobody cares. he went to protest, if the irish can help an irish born irish citizen then they should, and they are doing so.
    [....]
    so what. he went probably to protest that corrupt government who deserve everything they get.
    [....]
    protesting an illegitimate government. fair play to him.
    ...

    Then more recently Bjork said...
    bjork wrote: »
    A few days ago the story was one of him being caught up while on an innocent family holiday when he popped out to buy a postcard, now he was saving babies?

    What will this hero do next?

    You quoted what Bjork said above in your own post but it appears that you changed what he said to this..
    the story is one of him being caught up on a protest while on an innocent family holiday when he popped out to buy a postcard and took sanctuary in a mosq

    To which you added / replied..
    end of the road wrote: »
    yes. thats right

    You have just lost your argument.


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    #688
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    Hi there K. flyer,
    think you forgot to mention that his home movie video was him and his family predicting on the internet that the blood will flow through the streets and jihad is coming and we are going to over throw the govenment. That kind of crap usually irritates anyone in whatever country you "visit". Appartently these Egytian chaps seem to have taken it literally with the whole dead policeman thing and have sent hiim to the bold room, to sweat it out.

    I often worry if they have ice in the rooms or do you have to go down the hall tHi o get ice for your water, damn annoying. Either way I do hope he sends a post card home. "Hi dad having fun on holiday just been in a riot and clipped three bobbies going to a full moon party tonight"


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    #689
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    think you forgot to mention that his home movie video was him and his family predicting on the internet that the blood will flow through the streets and jihad is coming and we are going to over throw the govenment.

    I didn't come across this video, is there a link to it available.


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    #690
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    here is a transcription:


    [0:04] Here tonight we have some people from other countries, they are here with us even though they should be doing their studies or spending their weekends, but they came here to support their country, Egypt. These ones decided to spend their vacations in Rabaa Al Adaweya instead of doing other stuff and you can see they are young and they look nice.

    [1:19] Peace etc. Greeting and the heroes who are here, men, women, young, old. We came from abroad from different countries to share with you, to support you because also we think that the others are stealing Egypt and also the future of the people. We are getting our power from your standing here.

    Allah Akbar etc.

    [2:46] My name is Ahmed, I am Egyptian, living in Germany, going to the faculty of medicine and spending my vacation with you. I swear to Allah it is an honor to be here with you and spend the summer. All the people of foreign countries are admiring you and I read in Der Spiegel that the people (you) who are supporting legitimacy are still standing despite the violence used against them. Egyptian people are great ones. I would like to thank the German government for what they did and we deserve democracy, yes we do. Before I came to Egypt I asked my friend "do you need anything?" He said "yes, say hello to Dr. Morsi."

    We say together "The people admire the standing of the President! The people admire the standing of the President!" etc.

    [5:35] My name is Ebraheem Halawa and I am from Ireland. I am in the first year at University and I am here since one month ago. I came directly from Ireland to Rabaa and I was there at the Republican Guard massacre and I got two birdshot wounds, and it did not stop me. Your standing here makes me stay with you. Also, during the massacre at Sadat's Memorial I was there and saw the people killed even though Salah Sultan said to come back, but they stayed to face the police and our standing there stopped the police and the thugs. And then I came to the hospital at Rabaa, then they took me to Medinat Nasr hospital because I stopped breathing because of the gas. We are saying to them we are not leaving, we are not leaving.

    I am going to give you a little word here, I am going to open it the way President Morsi used to do. "Oh great Egyptian people!" You standing here for 35 days on asphalt although you are under war, threats, live fire, your standing is a life for those ones who died. The people are two different kinds. People who are alive but they are dead, and others who have died but are still alive. Your standing here is a life for those ones who are under the control of the media and supporting the army. We are standing with you here, we are standing with you here.

    What do we want? Freedom! When do we want it? Now! etc.

    [8:31] My name is Mahmoud Ahmed Iraqi and I have been living in Ireland for 15 years. I came on the 28th and I was there at the Republican Guard and Sadat Memorial massacre. I got this birdshot wound during the Sadat memorial massacre and I fell down and had trouble breathing, but we came back because we are men. You brought us here. We are here because of you. We could have spent the summer in Ireland. You showed us the will. You show us the standing and because of you we are here. We are going to stay here until we bring back the will of the Egyptian people. Don't leave the square of Rabaa until you bring what you want!

    [10:33] My name is Omaima Halawa and I came from Ireland to stand with my people, with my brothers and sisters. We will bring democracy back, Please Allah! Big greetings for those ones who defended us and who were in the front lines at the Sadat memorial massacre. And they refused to get back to defend us even after they attack them. Big greeting also to those ones who carried the dead and injured. Because of their courage we are still alive and by your standing here you are going to defeat those ones who made the coup soon.

    [11:44] My name is Somaia from Ireland. And I came here in March to settle down in Egypt because I thought Egypt brought democracy and I believed I would live in Egypt in pride and dignity. After the coup I was looking for a job and did two interviews. And I decided to stop looking for work until we defeat the coup and bring democracy back. I would like to send a message to those who are watching us from home. Join us! Join us to bring democracy and defeat the coup! If you stay at home and something wrong happens to us here you are not going to have the calm life you are expecting. Then the regret will be useless. The Prophet said if somebody helps somebody to kill another even with a word, he will come on the day of judgement and written on his forehead will be 'he is desperate from the mercy of Allah', because silence means you agree that we should be killed. We think the PM and the government are responsible for the blood that will run tonight and also for the people who are mandated to fight us (the army). We expect their visit soon - anytime - but we trust in Allah to be with us. I swear to Allah we are not going to leave the square until we get back the dignity of all the Egyptians, whether they are with us or not! Keep standing in the square and the victory of Allah is coming soon!


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    #691
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2




    and for the translation : http://markhumphrys.com/halawa.html#translation


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