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Irish Teen Fears Execution in Egypt

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    #752
    bjork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,554 ✭✭✭bjork


    FactCheck wrote: »
    People do understand that he was protesting in favour of the democratically elected government, that had been deposed by military coup, yeah?

    ...

    and tell us, what happened when they got in to power. Did they change anything for instance?


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    #753
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Odyssey 2005 wrote: »
    I have a better idea, why not take his Irish Passport off him and fookin keep him there.
    because he was born here, so our problem. the fact he isn't white and catholic doesn't change it.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #754
    bjork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,554 ✭✭✭bjork


    end of the road wrote: »
    because he was born here, so our problem. the fact he isn't white and catholic doesn't change it.

    That's about the 15,000 time you've used this phrase. You seem to have a narrow view of what makes someone Irish. Or perhaps your trying to use the old racism excuse because there is feck all else?


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    #755
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    FactCheck wrote: »
    People do understand that he was protesting in favour of the democratically elected government, that had been deposed by military coup, yeah?

    I don't like the Muslim Brotherhood one bit. I wouldn't vote for them in an election. But in a free and fair and legitimate election (despite the army's best efforts to rig election boxes) the majority of the Egyptian people voted for them.

    And then army seized back the control they'd had over the country for decades.

    Say what you like about the Muslim Brotherhood, they were the government and a damn sight better than a military fcuking coup.

    This kid was 17 and on a trip back to see his grandparents. He was very stupid but it is appalling that an illegitimate junta has kept him in prison for years without trial. He is an Irish citizen and the notion that demonstrating in favour of democracy negates that is ludicrous.
    shhhhhhhhhhhhh . sense at last. dam facts a? lets not let them get in the way of the hatred of this lad because he isn't white and catholic

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #756
    pmasterson95
    Registered Users Posts: 3,074 ✭✭✭pmasterson95


    The fact that I now know that I can go commit crimes abroad then get rescued thanks to being Irish is deadly. Must make use of that loophole.


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    #757
    FactCheck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 397 ✭✭FactCheck


    bjork wrote: »
    and tell us, what happened when they got in to power. Did they change anything for instance?

    Yeah, they outlawed their political opponents, imprisoned journalists, and engineered show trials.

    Oh no wait, that was the military dictatorship he was protesting.


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    #758
    bjork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,554 ✭✭✭bjork


    pmasterson95 wrote: »
    The fact that I now know that I can go commit crimes abroad then get rescued thanks to being Irish is deadly. Must make use of that loophole.

    Don't forget to send us a postcard!! ;)

    :pac:


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    #759
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    bjork wrote: »
    and tell us, what happened when they got in to power. Did they change anything for instance?
    what could they change? as soon as they were in, the military started the nonsense to overthrow them. i wouldn't be voting for them myself, but at least they seemed to be a little better, and easyish for the west to deal with, unlike the previous and current vermin

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #760
    FactCheck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 397 ✭✭FactCheck


    Beano wrote: »
    he was given the opportunity to leave and decided not to. how can you help somebody that doesnt want to be helped? he is also an egyptian citizen. he is not entitled to consular assistance.

    No he wasn't. Did you read the Irish Times article? He is going to try to leave if the journalists he's imprisoned with are allowed to, but there are no guarantees with capricious military dictatorships.


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    #761
    Odyssey 2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,065 ✭✭✭✭Odyssey 2005


    end of the road wrote: »
    not at all. he is irish, the fact he isn't a white catholic doesn't change that.



    no he shouldn't. egypt is a corrupt dictatorship, so its laws are invalid.



    because he is irish. the fellow in australia could be talking to the authorities in relation to his nationality for all we know.

    That's twice you have mentioned colour and religion when misquoting my posts. Please don't do it again. I have not mentioned either.!


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    #762
    pmasterson95
    Registered Users Posts: 3,074 ✭✭✭pmasterson95


    Odyssey 2005 wrote: »
    That's twice you have mentioned colour and religion when misquoting my posts. Please don't do it again. I have not mentioned either.!

    I wouldn't take it personal mate. Does it to everyone.


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    #763
    Beano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    FactCheck wrote: »
    No he wasn't. Did you read the Irish Times article? He is going to try to leave if the journalists he's imprisoned with are allowed to, but there are no guarantees with capricious military dictatorships.

    so HE was given the opportunity to leave and decided not to. which is exactly what i said.


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    #764
    Odyssey 2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,065 ✭✭✭✭Odyssey 2005


    pmasterson95 wrote: »
    I wouldn't take it personal mate. Does it to everyone.

    Don't worry you just can't fix stupid.


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    #765
    FactCheck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 397 ✭✭FactCheck


    Beano wrote: »
    so HE was given the opportunity to leave and decided not to. which is exactly what i said.

    He doesn't have an opportunity to leave. Some other foreign citizens might - and if their expensive and complicated appeals succeed, he will try to copy them - but officially this is only open to foreign citizens and the dictatorship does not consider him a foreign citizen.


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    #766
    Grand Moff Tarkin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 862 ✭✭✭Grand Moff Tarkin


    end of the road wrote: »
    because he was born here, so our problem. the fact he isn't white and catholic doesn't change it.

    You have been the only person to bring skin colour into this. Which is a sad attempt to drag away from the fact you lost this debate pages ago.


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    #767
    Beano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    FactCheck wrote: »
    He doesn't have an opportunity to leave. Some other foreign citizens might - and if their expensive and complicated appeals succeed, he will try to copy them - but officially this is only open to foreign citizens and the dictatorship does not consider him a foreign citizen.

    We've been through on the thread already. he was offered the opportunity. I cant be arsed looking through this trainwreck of a thread to find it.


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    #768
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    FactCheck wrote: »
    No he wasn't. Did you read the Irish Times article? He is going to try to leave if the journalists he's imprisoned with are allowed to, but there are no guarantees with capricious military dictatorships.

    He was offered safe passage from the mosque, which he refused. He obviously thought he had a get out of jail card once that offer was made.

    Looks like that's been revoked.


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    #769
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »
    You have been the only person to bring skin colour into this. Which is a sad attempt to drag away from the fact you lost this debate pages ago.
    i'm not. i'm the only one who has mentioned what has been sutley thought all along as the reasons not to do what we can, however little, for this lad by those who have a hatred for him.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #770
    Grand Moff Tarkin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 862 ✭✭✭Grand Moff Tarkin


    end of the road wrote: »
    i'm not. i'm the only one who has mentioned what has been sutley thought all along as the reasons not to do what we can, however little, for this lad by those who have a hatred for him.

    You lost this debate pages ago when it was shown the lad and his family were over to cause trouble. My government went above and beyond for him and now it is time for us as a nation to wash our hands and leave him be now. You are the only person in this thread who has bought skin colour into this when the truth is his skin colour has NOTHING to do with it.


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    #771
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    FactCheck wrote: »
    People do understand that he was protesting in favour of the democratically elected government, that had been deposed by military coup, yeah?

    I don't like the Muslim Brotherhood one bit. I wouldn't vote for them in an election. But in a free and fair and legitimate election (despite the army's best efforts to rig election boxes) the majority of the Egyptian people voted for them.

    And then army seized back the control they'd had over the country for decades.

    Say what you like about the Muslim Brotherhood, they were the government and a damn sight better than a military fcuking coup.

    This kid was 17 and on a trip back to see his grandparents. He was very stupid but it is appalling that an illegitimate junta has kept him in prison for years without trial. He is an Irish citizen and the notion that demonstrating in favour of democracy negates that is ludicrous.



    Do you accept he is also an Egyptian citizen?

    I've asked End of the Road this question repeatedly and he refuses to answer.


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    #772
    pmasterson95
    Registered Users Posts: 3,074 ✭✭✭pmasterson95


    end of the road wrote: »
    i'm not. i'm the only one who has mentioned what has been sutley thought all along as the reasons not to do what we can, however little, for this lad by those who have a hatred for him.
    Not subtely thought I'd say not thought at all......not every white catholic is Irish (possibly French, Polish etc) not every Irish person is a white catholic (black/asian/tangerine coloured make up/fake tanned orange monsters) can also be Irish. I think you should either give up failing with arguments or broaden your racial horizons and ease on the profiling....


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    #773
    FactCheck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 397 ✭✭FactCheck


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Do you accept he is also an Egyptian citizen?

    I've asked End of the Road this question repeatedly and he refuses to answer.


    Sure, why wouldn't I. I have dual citizenship myself.


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    #774
    FactCheck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 397 ✭✭FactCheck


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    He was offered safe passage from the mosque, which he refused. He obviously thought he had a get out of jail card once that offer was made.

    Looks like that's been revoked.

    You're saying it's fair enough he will be executed in a mass show trial, because when he was 17 he didn't trust the military (which had fired repeatedly on demonstrators from the very beginning of the Arab Soring some years before).

    That's if it was even his decision at all, given that he was a minor surrounded by adults.

    But hey maybe it was his decision. Maybe he thought he was making a great stand for his beliefs, maybe he thought fcuk the army, fcuk the suppression and the corruption and the abuses, I'm going to make a stand, this is how we get change. That's crippling stupid and naive. But it's not a crime worthy of eighteen months inprisonment without trial and execution.

    What is Irish citizenship, and the Irish State, supposed to be for if it won't protect us against illegitimate detention by a dictatorship?


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    #775
    FactCheck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 397 ✭✭FactCheck


    Also again people understand that saying "he chose to go there he should obeyed their laws" is nonsense because at the start of the summer when he went there, Egypt was a fledging democracy witnessing the aftermath of their first legitimate elections? The coup happened while he was there. The notion that marching and demonstrating in opposition to a military coup means you don't deserve to be an Irish citizen is ridiculous.

    I know he supports the Muslim Brotherhood they are dickheads. The things they believe are deeply unpleasant and in many ways anthetical to democracy. But that doesn't mean that supporting them should be a crime. And opposing a military coup certainly shouldn't be a crime.

    This kid believes very stupid things and was tremendously naive. But that doesn't mean he should be left to rot and die under an illegitimate dictatorship.


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    #776
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    FactCheck wrote: »
    Sure, why wouldn't I. I have dual citizenship myself.

    Good.

    That being the case do you think he should be exempt from international law and the conventions between states that govern dual citizens?


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    #777
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »
    You lost this debate pages ago when it was shown the lad and his family were over to cause trouble. My government went above and beyond for him and now it is time for us as a nation to wash our hands and leave him be now. You are the only person in this thread who has bought skin colour into this when the truth is his skin colour has NOTHING to do with it.


    And of course the multiple generous offers to send him a range of pork products and alcohol should in no way be considered sectarian or discriminatory acts.


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    #778
    Grand Moff Tarkin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 862 ✭✭✭Grand Moff Tarkin


    Nodin wrote: »
    And of course the multiple generous offers to send him a range of pork products and alcohol should in no way be considered sectarian or discriminatory acts.

    Skin colour has only become an issue after every other point EOTR made was blown out of the water mate. This debate should have end pages ago as it is obvious he was over there to cause trouble and now he wishes to be a maryter to his cause.


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    #779
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    FactCheck wrote: »
    Also again people understand that saying "he chose to go there he should obeyed their laws" is nonsense because at the start of the summer when he went there, Egypt was a fledging democracy witnessing the aftermath of their first legitimate elections? The coup happened while he was there. The notion that marching and demonstrating in opposition to a military coup means you don't deserve to be an Irish citizen is ridiculous.

    I know he supports the Muslim Brotherhood they are dickheads. The things they believe are deeply unpleasant and in many ways anthetical to democracy. But that doesn't mean that supporting them should be a crime. And opposing a military coup certainly shouldn't be a crime.

    This kid believes very stupid things and was tremendously naive. But that doesn't mean he should be left to rot and die under an illegitimate dictatorship.

    He made his bed, now he gets to lie in it. His speech he made at the protest doesn't read like someone who was innocently caught up in a movement.


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    #780
    Grand Moff Tarkin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 862 ✭✭✭Grand Moff Tarkin


    FactCheck wrote: »
    Also again people understand that saying "he chose to go there he should obeyed their laws" is nonsense because at the start of the summer when he went there, Egypt was a fledging democracy witnessing the aftermath of their first legitimate elections? The coup happened while he was there. The notion that marching and demonstrating in opposition to a military coup means you don't deserve to be an Irish citizen is ridiculous.

    I know he supports the Muslim Brotherhood they are dickheads. The things they believe are deeply unpleasant and in many ways anthetical to democracy. But that doesn't mean that supporting them should be a crime. And opposing a military coup certainly shouldn't be a crime.

    This kid believes very stupid things and was tremendously naive. But that doesn't mean he should be left to rot and die under an illegitimate dictatorship.

    Sorry now but when it comes to Muslim Brotherhood thanks but no thanks. My family and I enjoy living in the 21st century and have no wish to follow the hokey holy joe views they represent.


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    #781
    FactCheck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 397 ✭✭FactCheck


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Good.

    That being the case do you think he should be exempt from international law and the conventions between states that govern dual citizens?

    What "State" would that be? The one that enjoyed decades of military rule while brutally repressing opposition? The one that interfered with free elections, and when that didn't work, instigated a violent military coup? The one that fired repeatedly on peaceful protestors, through the Arab Spring and beyond?

    I'm tremendously in favour of international law. You'll have to point me towards the international law that condones show trials of hundreds of defendants, months without trial or access to lawyers, imprisonment of journalists, and denial of citizenship.

    On the other hand, relocating defendants to stand trial or serve sentences in their native countries is in fact a well established principle of international law. The reason the junta won't hear of it is because there is no evidence whatsoever that this kid committed murder or attempted murder and attending a march is not a crime.


This discussion has been closed.
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