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Irish Teen Fears Execution in Egypt
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Defender OF Faith wrote: »Interesting claims, I would be more interested to see evidences to back such strong sweeping statements, especially since this party was a democratically elected party voted by 52% of the republic
The Nazis were democratically elected.
Popular support is no guarantor of virtue. The fact that this party and similarly odious ones have been gaining traction all over the Arab world lately is terrifying proof of the burgeoning popularity of extremist Islamism among the populations there.0 -
What you said is partially true, while the MBH ideology and their support at times fuelled the raise of certain radical Takfiri Islamic groups, they established many charitable societies and social services and were beginning to take a more moderate approach then their original leaders, the MBH we need to remember was suppressed and banned throughout Egypt and other Arab countries for nearly six decades, many of its leaders were killed and assassinated including its founder, but after its legalisation when Mubarak regime was toppled, it grow rapidly to become the country strongest and most well organized political organisation which was then elected by the people.just because the muslim brotherhood was democratically elected can't change the fact that they have long and deep links to islamic violence
very dangerous people, anyone with links to them should never be allowed set foot in this country
Halawa was protesting for this basic freedom of democracy which you as an individual living in the west take for granted. For the ability to vote freely against the military undermining his vote and the votes of millions of others, and most importantly against the Massacre committed by the military in Rabaa because those people simply wanted the return of the president they elected.
The least that could be done is to respect this democracy and wait for his legitimate 4 year period to end and vote for a new president in the next election rather then oust a democratically elected president.0 -
what I said is not partially true, it 100% true
doing charity work can change these facts0 -
what I said is not partially true, it 100% true
doing charity work can change these facts
Care to give examples? I would seriously like to know as I am skeptical and find it unlikely for the MBH to have gained so much support if it's as you described.
That depends on your definition of "Extremist Islam" as it appears to be a very subjective term with some people declaring that a Muslim that prays 5 times a day and believe the Qur'an to be the literal word of God and Muhammed to be the last prophet to walk the earth in their viewpoint an extremist. On the other hand you appear to admit that in a sense democracy could be misused and is flawed since it puts power at the hand of fools and sometimes the brain washed if they make up the majority.The Nazis were democratically elected.
Popular support is no guarantor of virtue. The fact that this party and similarly odious ones have been gaining traction all over the Arab world lately is terrifying proof of the burgeoning popularity of extremist Islamism among the populations there.0 -
Defender OF Faith wrote: »Care to give examples? I would seriously like to know as I am skeptical and find it unlikely for the MBH to have gained so much support if it's as you described.
you know well that they are linked to violence, no one doubts this
I don't care if they are popular that just proves to me that there is something sick at the heart of all islamic societies
ISIS are popular and have plenty of support and no doubt they would win elections in some arab/islamic countries
only a fool would believe your islamic propaganda0 -
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Defender OF Faith wrote: »What you said is partially true, while the MBH ideology and their support at times fuelled the raise of certain radical Takfiri Islamic groups, they established many charitable societies and social services and were beginning to take a more moderate approach then their original leaders, the MBH we need to remember was suppressed and banned throughout Egypt and other Arab countries for nearly six decades, many of its leaders were killed and assassinated including its founder, but after its legalisation when Mubarak regime was toppled, it grow rapidly to become the country strongest and most well organized political organisation which was then elected by the people.
Halawa was protesting for this basic freedom of democracy which you as an individual living in the west take for granted. For the ability to vote freely against the military undermining his vote and the votes of millions of others, and most importantly against the Massacre committed by the military in Rabaa because those people simply wanted the return of the president they elected.
The least that could be done is to respect this democracy and wait for his legitimate 4 year period to end and vote for a new president in the next election rather then oust a democratically elected president.
Again so did the NASDAP.
And again everything they did was predicated on preserving Germany's freedom.
And even if everything you said is true - what business is it of any Irish citizen how any country is run, other than his own?0 -
you know well that they are linked to violence, no one doubts this
I don't care if they are popular that just proves to me that there is something sick at the heart of all islamic societies
ISIS are popular and have plenty of support and no doubt they would win elections in some arab/islamic countries
only a fool would believe your islamic propaganda
Only a fool would believe your empty rhetoric that so far are backed by what appears to be your own sentiment, I am asking your kindly for examples incidents and evidences so that I can learn as am not stupid enough to be brainwashed by empty statements, you also appear to be overlooking the current regime links to violence, were they not the ones who killed 1000+ people in Rabaa? were they not the one who killed the Egyptian activist Shaimaa when she went to Tahrir in memorial of the revolution, during the recent Cario protest?0 -
To protest for democracy and a call for a change against massacres committed by a coup in a country he's also a citizen of? it really shows the flaws of citizenship based on simply obtaining a number of documents, the Irish should introduce laws that revoke previous citizenships once you receive the Irish passport.Again so did the NASDAP.
And again everything they did was predicated on preserving Germany's freedom.
And even if everything you said is true - what business is it of any Irish citizen how any country is run, other than his own?0 -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxor_massacrethe killing went on systematically for 45 minutes, during which many bodies, especially of women, were mutilated with machetes. They used both guns and butcher knives.[6] A note praising Islam was found inside a disemboweled body.[7] The dead included a five-year-old British child and four Japanese couples on honeymoon.[8][9]
the people behind this have links to morsi and the MBH
how you can claim an islamic party don't believe in violence is strange, the koran is full of violence as you well know
the early muslims had no problem murdering anyone and thats the people islamists want to emulate0 -
Defender OF Faith wrote: »To protest for democracy and a call for a change against massacres committed by a coup in a country he's also a citizen of? it really shows the flaws of citizenship based on simply obtaining a number of documents, the Irish should introduce laws that revoke previous citizenships once you receive the Irish passport.
OK, lets be absolutely clear on one thing - he wasn't protesting for democracy - he was protesting for the MBH, who just happened to have won an election.
And when did the MBH become such avid democrats? Was it after the Nasser Coup (which they initially welcomed) ?
And what are they offering besides Sharia law, religious persecution (in the form of a number of well–organised attacks on Christian churches), curbing the rights of women?
What are their economic policies?0 -
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I read through the article and to begin with I couldn't see these links you claim to have been reported, I am not denying the MBH involvement in violence and support of certain radical Islamic militant however am trying to prove your ignorance on the matter by speaking on a shallow ground based on the little knowledge and information you may have without having done much study or deep objective research into the matter itself and the group history yourself.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxor_massacre
the people behind this have links to morsi and the MBH
how you can claim an islamic party don't believe in violence is strange, the koran is full of violence as you well know
the early muslims had no problem murdering anyone and that's the people islamists want to emulate
Your warmly welcomed to discuss the Qur'an and those early Muslims that had no problem murdering anyone in the Islam forum section of boards to further prove your ignorance and lack of knowledge regarding this topic, or possibly help educate us Muslims on our book,prove our ignorance and rescue us from the dangers of the ideology we are trapped & brainwashed in.0 -
Not for democracy? this election Happened to have been a legal democratic election in which the people casted their votes in unfortunately their votes were undermined by the military and its coup, basically destroying the concept of democracy to begin with before the supporters of this ousted president were then massacred in their hundreds by this new regime.OK, lets be absolutely clear on one thing - he wasn't protesting for democracy - he was protesting for the MBH, who just happened to have won an election.
You vote for a party which you expect to rule for 4 years, this party was then forced out of the government without election or a democracy but by a powerful military, you protest then to restore your democratically elected president and reject this coup which respond by using force to silence you and throw you into jail who is the victim here?
I am not a supporter of the MBH so I cant speak for them nor do I speak blindly about them by focusing solely in their dark history am speaking here in favour of the democracy which Egypt was forcefully robbed from, Morsi should have been allowed to continue his legal 4 year period before being replaced through another democratic election rather then simply kicking him out like this, destroying Egypt's first attempt in democracy which they so long struggled for. Nations need to be left to learn from their own mistakes and if he was a mistake then simple don't vote for him again and use the same means through which power was handed to him to remove him but dont go crying to the military to come for your aid.And when did the MBH become such avid democrats? Was it after the Nasser Coup (which they initially welcomed) ?
And what are they offering besides Sharia law, religious persecution (in the form of a number of well–organised attacks on Christian churches), curbing the rights of women?
What are their economic policies?0 -
Defender OF Faith wrote: »Not for democracy? this election Happened to have been a legal democratic election in which the people casted their votes in unfortunately their votes were undermined by the military and its coup, basically destroying the concept of democracy to begin with before the supporters of this ousted president were then massacred in their hundreds by this new regime.
You vote for a party which you expect to rule for 4 years, this party was then forced out of the government without election or a democracy but by a powerful military, you protest then to restore your democratically elected president and reject this coup which respond by using force to silence you and throw you into jail who is the victim here?
I am not a supporter of the MBH so I cant speak for them nor do I speak blindly about them by focusing solely in their dark history am speaking here in favour of the democracy which Egypt was forcefully robbed from, Morsi should have been allowed to continue his legal 4 year period before being replaced through another democratic election rather then simply kicking him out like this, destroying egypt's first attempt in democracy which they so long struggled for.
So you can't speak with authority about the MBH?
But you're happy to speak in support of some kid who set out to support them and their 'dark history'?
If the young lad is such an avowed democrat, why not, as an Irish citizen, join one of the youth elements of the political parties here?0 -
So you can't speak with authority about the MBH?
But you're happy to speak in support of some kid who set out to support them and their 'dark history'?
If the young lad is such an avowed democrat, why not, as an Irish citizen, join one of the youth elements of the political parties here?
I support his right to support an ousted democratically elected president whom he choose to vote for and for his stance against the current brutal joke of a military regime & the massacres it committed. If I voted for an Irish party and the Irish military decide to stage a coup I will certainly protest against it as it's a slap in the face of democracy to remove a democratically elected leader by force and instead of opening the door for political groups rival to MBH to enter they choose to take power for themselves and run an election which they win by a whooping 96% of the votes, interestingly in the Syrian presidential election Bashar also won by a whooping 88%.
I mean seriously how can 80%+ of the votes be in favour of a single man? all the democratic elections throughout europe features close closes I don't think there was an instance were a leader managed to obtain more then 60% of the votes(open for corrections if am wrong) in fact Morsi only won by 51% which sounds much more credible then a president elected by 96% votes.0 -
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just because the muslim brotherhood was democratically elected can't change the fact that they have long and deep links to islamic violence
very dangerous people, anyone with links to them should never be allowed set foot in this country
What's the difference between Islamic violence & just plain old violence?0 -
yeah
I believe ya :rolleyes:
Before undermining my statement like this you should ask or take a book and learn about this group first, there's not a single Takfiri* Islamic militant group today which was not in some way influenced by the teachings of the MBH leaders whether directly or indirectly throughout the ages, the books of Sayyid qutb one of their most influential and spiritual leaders executed under Nassir regime remains a reference for many of such groups today, they fool the Muslims with their promise of implementing the Islamic Sharia and once given power they completely ignore it, they are purely politicians that will follow what's convenient to archive their goals and during this process we cant not deny some of the good they did to gain support.
*Takifiri/Khawarij groups are those who declare Muslim opposing them and Muslims who commit minor sins as an infidels and non-Muslims.0 -
DarkyHughes wrote: »What's the difference between Islamic violence & just plain old violence?
Plain old violence has no Justification. Islamic Violence is sanction by Allah and anyone who says other wise is a heretic and should have their head lobbed off and sodomised by a goat.0 -
Defender OF Faith wrote: »Not for democracy? this election Happened to have been a legal democratic election in which the people casted their votes in unfortunately their votes were undermined by the military and its coup, basically destroying the concept of democracy to begin with before the supporters of this ousted president were then massacred in their hundreds by this new regime.
You vote for a party which you expect to rule for 4 years, this party was then forced out of the government without election or a democracy but by a powerful military, you protest then to restore your democratically elected president and reject this coup which respond by using force to silence you and throw you into jail who is the victim here?
I am not a supporter of the MBH so I cant speak for them nor do I speak blindly about them by focusing solely in their dark history am speaking here in favour of the democracy which Egypt was forcefully robbed from, Morsi should have been allowed to continue his legal 4 year period before being replaced through another democratic election rather then simply kicking him out like this, destroying Egypt's first attempt in democracy which they so long struggled for. Nations need to be left to learn from their own mistakes and if he was a mistake then simple don't vote for him again and use the same means through which power was handed to him to remove him but dont go crying to the military to come for your aid.
The MB only used the election as an instrument to gain power. Their real aim was Jihad like Hitler wanting war in the 1930's. Democracy was just a means to get to this. They discarded their revolutionary yoke and concentrated on getting out the vote but they could care less about democracy or the people they hurt. You portray the Egyptian military as an ogre but most of the citizens support the military over the superficial parliament they have over there. Lets hope now after tasting democracy they can reform the system take down the corrupt officials and actually implement a real government based on the rule of law.0 -
To all posters here you can all argue about Allah Muslims, coptics christians and jihad, civil right and what not.
The lad is in front of a civil court and what not. The word of Allah nor the Irish constituion can save him. Like Tonto this indian has gone well of the reservation.
I was talking to an Egyptian solicitor this weekend and it came up. The Irish Government have NO interest in saving him. The Egyptian Government cant afford to make him a martyr. If he gets out and come back to Ireland this is proof that the Irish passport is a "Get out of Jail Card". It can be played in any country in the world and the Irish Government wont stand for a neutral citizen to be imprisoned. Little Ibrihim will be back in Ireland bringing dozens of dopes out there.
The Egyptian solicitor said we have to stamp this out now hard and fast. These hard line muslims see both Non muslim and tolerant muslims as traitors and must be destroyed. Its in no ones interest (except Halawas) to bring him home. Make him an example of, so others will be discouraged.0 -
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False, your ideology regarding Islam is no different then that of ISIS or Al Qaeda, in fact you will make a great teacher and mentor for their fighters, it's certain individuals that have the violent inclination if your a violent person regardless of your religion you will find justification for your actions and crimes.skooterblue2 wrote: »Plain old violence has no Justification. Islamic Violence is sanction by Allah and anyone who says other wise is a heretic and should have their head lobbed off and sodomised by a goat.
Stalin,Chairman Mao and Pol Pot were all atheists who killed more people then any Islamic or religious fanatic could ever wish for and hide behind their political ideas and agendas for justification of their crimes, exactly in the same way the religious fanatic would hide behind his religion. It's quite naive and silly to state that violence has no justification there's not a person unless mentally disturb or ill that would commit an act of violence without some sort of justification, and it can be at simple as "I was so angry I couldn't control myself so I...."
The MB is very good at looking like victims and it would be no surprise if they come to power and gain popularity again in the future using this incidents to showcase how they were robbed of their democratic rights and that a year after 60 years of military regimes is not enough to bring about change and remove the old corruption, the army had indiscriminately massacred more then 1000 of their supporters their card is strong and people will fall for it again, it was at the best interest of Egypt to give them this 4 years term to see them for who they truly were rather then start a coup against them.KingBrian2 wrote: »The MB only used the election as an instrument to gain power. Their real aim was Jihad like Hitler wanting war in the 1930's. Democracy was just a means to get to this. They discarded their revolutionary yoke and concentrated on getting out the vote but they could care less about democracy or the people they hurt. You portray the Egyptian military as an ogre but most of the citizens support the military over the superficial parliament they have over there. Lets hope now after tasting democracy they can reform the system take down the corrupt officials and actually implement a real government based on the rule of law.0 -
Gents and ladies of course,
I am simply thinking of the putting a positive spin of living under sharia law, other than the the ones i have alluded to.
You will never again get those ****e pork chops that your granny always gave you,
as you've guessed it ,also banned,a good thing in my book.
Gary Glitter , Rolf harris would be with thier mate jimmy saville ......wormfood no fu:;ing around with jail and trials again a good thing in my book.
Stictly come dancing is banned another good thing.
X factor and that prick Simon Cowell ...banned again a good thing.
Very good chance that petrol will be cheap another good thing.
Toyota hi luxes are everywhere, take a look at all those troubled hotspots on news.
The Trioka can take a running **** to themselves.
No universal social charge,property tax.
We could all string Enda Kenny Michael Noonan and the ****ing worlds biggest **** Phil Hogan by the balls and say they drew a picture of the one we dare not draw his face
and then be called a hero for string them up.
So spare a thought for Kalid our fellow citizen he was thinking of us all along
Biggest shock of all belly dancing is allowed under some sharia interpations open to question.0 -
DarkyHughes wrote: »What's the difference between Islamic violence & just plain old violence?
If you die doing just regular old violence, too bad
If you die doing Muslim violence you get to spend eternity with 72 virgins0 -
skooterblue2 wrote: »bit more complexs than that but yeah that is the bones of it
I didn't get to see the u-tube bit and I believe it's gone now. So what did he do apart from protesting?0 -
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skooterblue2 wrote: »Its not as simple as ... he was Just protesting. he was agitating and a lot of people got hurt and killed.
Agitating, as in? Sorry, I don't understand the difference between protesting and agitating.
How many got hurt and killed? How did this happen? Who hurt/killed them?0 -
I didn't get to see the u-tube bit and I believe it's gone now. So what did he do apart from protesting?
Nope, its still on You Toob, fast foward to approx 5.30mins..
And the translation of the above....
Again scroll to 5.35 mins..skooterblue2 wrote: »here is a transcription:
[0:04] Here tonight we have some people from other countries, they are here with us even though they should be doing their studies or spending their weekends, but they came here to support their country, Egypt. These ones decided to spend their vacations in Rabaa Al Adaweya instead of doing other stuff and you can see they are young and they look nice.
[1:19] Peace etc. Greeting and the heroes who are here, men, women, young, old. We came from abroad from different countries to share with you, to support you because also we think that the others are stealing Egypt and also the future of the people. We are getting our power from your standing here.
Allah Akbar etc.
[2:46] My name is Ahmed, I am Egyptian, living in Germany, going to the faculty of medicine and spending my vacation with you. I swear to Allah it is an honor to be here with you and spend the summer. All the people of foreign countries are admiring you and I read in Der Spiegel that the people (you) who are supporting legitimacy are still standing despite the violence used against them. Egyptian people are great ones. I would like to thank the German government for what they did and we deserve democracy, yes we do. Before I came to Egypt I asked my friend "do you need anything?" He said "yes, say hello to Dr. Morsi."
We say together "The people admire the standing of the President! The people admire the standing of the President!" etc.
[5:35] My name is Ebraheem Halawa and I am from Ireland. I am in the first year at University and I am here since one month ago. I came directly from Ireland to Rabaa and I was there at the Republican Guard massacre and I got two birdshot wounds, and it did not stop me. Your standing here makes me stay with you. Also, during the massacre at Sadat's Memorial I was there and saw the people killed even though Salah Sultan said to come back, but they stayed to face the police and our standing there stopped the police and the thugs. And then I came to the hospital at Rabaa, then they took me to Medinat Nasr hospital because I stopped breathing because of the gas. We are saying to them we are not leaving, we are not leaving.
I am going to give you a little word here, I am going to open it the way President Morsi used to do. "Oh great Egyptian people!" You standing here for 35 days on asphalt although you are under war, threats, live fire, your standing is a life for those ones who died. The people are two different kinds. People who are alive but they are dead, and others who have died but are still alive. Your standing here is a life for those ones who are under the control of the media and supporting the army. We are standing with you here, we are standing with you here.
What do we want? Freedom! When do we want it? Now! etc.
[8:31] My name is Mahmoud Ahmed Iraqi and I have been living in Ireland for 15 years. I came on the 28th and I was there at the Republican Guard and Sadat Memorial massacre. I got this birdshot wound during the Sadat memorial massacre and I fell down and had trouble breathing, but we came back because we are men. You brought us here. We are here because of you. We could have spent the summer in Ireland. You showed us the will. You show us the standing and because of you we are here. We are going to stay here until we bring back the will of the Egyptian people. Don't leave the square of Rabaa until you bring what you want!
[10:33] My name is Omaima Halawa and I came from Ireland to stand with my people, with my brothers and sisters. We will bring democracy back, Please Allah! Big greetings for those ones who defended us and who were in the front lines at the Sadat memorial massacre. And they refused to get back to defend us even after they attack them. Big greeting also to those ones who carried the dead and injured. Because of their courage we are still alive and by your standing here you are going to defeat those ones who made the coup soon.
[11:44] My name is Somaia from Ireland. And I came here in March to settle down in Egypt because I thought Egypt brought democracy and I believed I would live in Egypt in pride and dignity. After the coup I was looking for a job and did two interviews. And I decided to stop looking for work until we defeat the coup and bring democracy back. I would like to send a message to those who are watching us from home. Join us! Join us to bring democracy and defeat the coup! If you stay at home and something wrong happens to us here you are not going to have the calm life you are expecting. Then the regret will be useless. The Prophet said if somebody helps somebody to kill another even with a word, he will come on the day of judgement and written on his forehead will be 'he is desperate from the mercy of Allah', because silence means you agree that we should be killed. We think the PM and the government are responsible for the blood that will run tonight and also for the people who are mandated to fight us (the army). We expect their visit soon - anytime - but we trust in Allah to be with us. I swear to Allah we are not going to leave the square until we get back the dignity of all the Egyptians, whether they are with us or not! Keep standing in the square and the victory of Allah is coming soon!0 -
If you die doing Muslim violence you get to spend eternity with 72 virgins
Yup 72 Virgins garunteed!!!!
Not what you had in mind? x 720 -
Agitating, as in? Sorry, I don't understand the difference between protesting and agitating.
How many got hurt and killed? How did this happen? Who hurt/killed them?
Protesting is in the crowd.... he was peaking publicly and calling for a public uprising. Now there was a warning in place by the DoFA not to travel to Egypt constantly. If you suggest that blood should run in the street ... you just might be held responsible.
3 security officers (not specific to Police/army/other), then there were civillians dead civilians and security personel and damage to government and private property.
What makes it look worse is they tried to deny it. There is something not clear about an AK47 being fired from a minerette.
Either way the more I hear stories the more lies gets uncovered. Sorry no credibility here. when you start playing games on that level you better win.... no prizes for losers0 -
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Highlighting is truly a powerful tool which can be used to emphasis your point, lets take a look again:Nope, its still on You Toob, fast foward to approx 5.30mins..
And the translation of the above....
Again scroll to 5.35 mins..
Clearly the man 17 at the time has witnessed horrific injustice killing and murder committed by the current failure of a regime which gave him and rightly so a strong sentiment against it and decided to bravely stand against it, while some people are cowardly sitting at home behind a PC screen trying to taint this young man image.[5:35] My name is Ebraheem Halawa and I am from Ireland. I am in the first year at University and I am here since one month ago. I came directly from Ireland to Rabaa and I was there at the Republican Guard massacre and I got two birdshot wounds, and it did not stop me. Your standing here makes me stay with you. Also, during the massacre at Sadat's Memorial I was there and saw the people killed even though Salah Sultan said to come back, but they stayed to face the police and our standing there stopped the police and the thugs. And then I came to the hospital at Rabaa, then they took me to Medinat Nasr hospital because I stopped breathing because of the gas. We are saying to them we are not leaving, we are not leaving.0
This discussion has been closed.
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