Irish Teen Fears Execution in Egypt

end of the road

skooterblue2 wrote: »

If you are leading a military run country and if you implement martial law what ever you say is gospel ..... that includes the presumption of guilt.

yes . hence why these trials can't be trusted in egypt. there will be no fair trials or fair outcomes. the outcomes will be what the military government want them to be.

darkpagandeath

end of the road wrote: »

yes . hence why these trials can't be trusted in egypt. there will be no fair trials or fair outcomes. the outcomes will be what the military government want them to be.

Did we forget the people who were release charges dropped and all that ?

Stheno

end of the road wrote: »

well when egypt implodes which it will they won't be trading with us, frankly on the off chance he did supposibly cause trouble for egypt should he return home (which its doubtful) . maybe its better to cut egypt loose now then wait.


well, its important that he doesn't for as long as possible



no it doesn't mean anything of the sort. him getting out means nothing in terms of the passport.



what mumbo jumbo. they want their brother home safe, they think by saying whatever that this will happen faster. clearly it won't, but if i had a family member in trouble in a foreign country i'd be saying whatever to put on the pressure myself. the lads in the DOFA are just getting on with it as thats their job.

Bull****y I'd not be calling the country I was depending on to get a loved one home racist

The halawas appear to be e xtreme

end of the road

darkpagandeath wrote: »

You do know what consular assistance is right ? it does not involve legal aid or legal help. It does no include giving you money for example. They are there to advise you. I.e here is a number of a local lawyer. That's as much as any Irish Citizen can expect once they are charged in a foreign country from the local embassy.

you don't say. i'm well aware of what it is and how it works, and thats exactly what this lad is getting.

skooterblue2

end of the road wrote: »

well when egypt implodes which it will they won't be trading with us, frankly on the off chance he did supposibly cause trouble for egypt should he return home (which its doubtful) . maybe its better to cut egypt loose now then wait.


well, its important that he doesn't for as long as possible



no it doesn't mean anything of the sort. him getting out means nothing in terms of the passport.



what mumbo jumbo. they want their brother home safe, they think by saying whatever that this will happen faster. clearly it won't, but if i had a family member in trouble in a foreign country i'd be saying whatever to put on the pressure myself. the lads in the DOFA are just getting on with it as thats their job.

It is not in the West interest to let Egypt implode (we like cheap oil) ... the Army seems to be a more popular option than the brother hood, they will still want to buy beef and we will still want to sell beef, happy days.

He is still alive because of his passport, I am very convinced that he is very lucky he didnt slip in the shower or fall down 9 consecutive flights of stairs.

Mumbo jumbo ... do you know the brotherhood were giving free flights to young gay guys off buidings, with out the help of aircraft? and how they would love us to know the benefit of Sharia Law.

Nodin

darkpagandeath wrote: »

He may be gone but the laws are still in effect are they not.

No, it was last renewed for a month only about a year or two ago.

corkonion

wish they'd just go ahead with the trial and be done with it,
he was offered an escape route but chose instead to be a big man and tore up his Irish passport,
Fair enough....deal with the consequences and stop wasting irish taxpayers money.

end of the road

Stheno wrote: »

Bull****y I'd not be calling the country I was depending on to get a loved one home racist

The halawas appear to be e xtreme

not bull at all. they will say whatever they need to. i couldn't care a less as i know ireland as a whole isn't racist. whether they are extreme or not isn't my problem either

darkpagandeath

end of the road wrote: »

you don't say. i'm well aware of what it is and how it works, and thats exactly what this lad is getting.

Name anyone who has gotten this level ?

Stheno

Yet the embassy in Egypt has intervened for him

The fact he's egyptian is going against him

end of the road

corkonion wrote: »

wish they'd just go ahead with the trial and be done with it,
he was offered an escape route but chose instead to be a big man and tore up his Irish passport,
Fair enough....deal with the consequences and stop wasting irish taxpayers money.

he is not wasting irish tax payers money.

Stheno

end of the road wrote: »

he is not wasting irish tax payers money.

He is using our consular staff

skooterblue2

corkonion wrote: »

wish they'd just go ahead with the trial and be done with it,
he was offered an escape route but chose instead to be a big man and tore up his Irish passport,

Daddy blocked the consular get out of jail card, he didnt turn it down, he is still a minor in Irish law and couldnt sign himself out from the Irish side.

Because of Daddys history they are going to take old grivances out on the son for his fathers crimes.

corkonion

This kid is an idiot, he stood on stage in front of thousands and basked in their applause as the crowd cheered in his proclamations, then while he was still in the limelight he tore up his Irish passport while declaring he would stay as long as it took,
So stay.

skooterblue2

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Name anyone who has gotten this level ?

The last time I heard of something this serious was when the Rangers went into Somalia to retrieve a GOAL aid worker, but actually was Irish. Then there was Brian Keenan but he was on CIA pay cheque and the Irish Government had no intention of getting him back

Crimsonforce

This kid was caught fair and square doing something he shouldn't have been doing.
No pleading is going to save him. Let this be a lesson to others.

Stheno

end of the road wrote: »

not bull at all. they will say whatever they need to. i couldn't care a less as i know ireland as a whole isn't racist. whether they are extreme or not isn't my problem either

And most sensible people including Charlie Flanagan are now publicly questioning and refuting them?

A visit from officials from the embassy every two weeks?

Yet the sister's here as they cant go back to face charges claim all sorts? You couldn't make it up

So this Irish family emigrate to Egypt and take out Egyptian citizenship. Their kids (now egyptian) come over for a water tax protest and get arrested along with some irish people.
Next thing the Egyptian minister is on to us telling us to treat them preferentially to the Irish people who are also in the judicial system.
I know what I'd say if I was the Irish minister!

These people knew exactly what they were getting into. They made their bed and they must lie in it.

In addition they have handed the current Egyptian regime a bargaining chip. There will be a price to be paid by the Irish government for any preferential treatment (ie more support for the current regime).

skooterblue2

Stheno wrote: »

A visit from officials from the embassy every two weeks?

Yet the sister's here as they cant go back to face charges claim all sorts? You couldn't make it up

you forgot the Ambassador bringing the care packaging ...... Jumbo bog roll, soap on a rope, barrys tea bags denny bacon and de Tayto Smokey Bacon crisps.... to be sure

"Really Mr Halawa you are really spoiling us with the Ferrero Rochers"
oh and I nearly forgot a scumbags favourite .... a slab of de Dutch . If you aren't drinking Dutch then you are paying too much.

Also a box of tampax because it says on the box: with them you can go swimming and horse riding, gymnastics, cycling, ballet ..........

end of the road

Stheno wrote: »

He is using our consular staff

who are there and would be working anyway

end of the road

Crimsonforce wrote: »

This kid was caught fair and square doing something he shouldn't have been doing.
No pleading is going to save him. Let this be a lesson to others.

he wasn't "caught" doing anything. his trial will be unfair, any "evidence" presented will be made up and unfair. this won't make a difference to others and won't be a lesson

skooterblue2

end of the road wrote: »

who are there and would be working anyway

yeah but they could be doing something that benefits Ireland like working on a trade deal, not on some chump that has thrown his life away. Read earlier posts they wont be trying him for years. At this rate it will be 10 years before he has his day in court he will be 30 before he is sentenced

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

These people knew exactly what they were getting into. They made their bed and they must lie in it.

its debatible whether they knew what they were getting into and even if they did it doesn't matter. they made no bed, so they mustn't lie in anything

end of the road

skooterblue2 wrote: »

yeah but they could be doing something that benefits Ireland like working on a trade deal, not on some chump that has thrown his life away. Read earlier posts they wont be trying him for years. At this rate it will be 10 years before he has his day in court he will be 30 before he is sentenced

they are working on something to benefit ireland, standing up for one of its citizens.

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

its debatible whether they knew what they were getting into and even if they did it doesn't matter. they made no bed, so they mustn't lie in anything

Of course they did. They are Egyptian and knew the situation there better than any Irish person. They also came from a 'political' family. Cries of naievity now are disingenious.

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

they are working on something to benefit ireland, standing up for one of its citizens.

An Irish citizen has no business interfering in Egyptian politics, particularly the direct action kind. We wouldn't accept the same here.

skooterblue2

You obviously have no experience with either authority nor the military..... you should sign up for a few year. It will be a complete eye opener for you. The first thing you will learn is your Corporal is always right and then your Acting Sargeant is alway right and then your Sargeant is always right. Your Platoon Officer is always right because he is a wA^ker and probably from a long line of them too. REal men suck it up and take it like a man.

You also need to learn the phrase T.I.A. This is Africa. It means that if some recently promoted peasant in Africa to Private in the Army has a Pair of shiny boots and a rifle and you dont you address him with courtsey and respect that befit a recently Promoted private with a gun. His opinion is far more important than yours and if he decides to he can discontinue the options menu for your life, because life is cheap in Africa.

If you ever travel east of Germany or south of Spain, you may find yoursef with a police officer who has never heard of the Geneva convention or the UN charter of human rights. This would be a good time for you to learn the phrase "yes officer that is what I was just thinking myself" other wise you could find yourself in immense pain and in subhuman accomodation.

skooterblue2

Deleted User wrote: »

Of course they did. They are Egyptian and knew the situation there better than any Irish person. They also came from a 'political' family. Cries of naievity now are disingenious.

Sure didnt daddy send them in his place to cut their teeth. Hell even i knew for years that the DoFA had warnings about travelling to Egypt

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

An Irish citizen has no business interfering in Egyptian politics, particularly the direct action kind. We wouldn't accept the same here.

i don't care whether we would accept it here, makes no difference. he was entitled to protest the ferrel military junta slaughtering people left right and centre. the junta is no better then the MB

skooterblue2

end of the road wrote: »

they are working on something to benefit ireland, standing up for one of its citizens.

He is going to be lucky if he gets out at 50!!!And by some miracle if he does he will have a range of disease from dysentary to tubercolous and if he has grown fond of the chocolate love wheather he likes it or not then it could be far more complex and you will be the only Irish person who will care about him

skooterblue2

end of the road wrote: »

i don't care whether we would accept it here, makes no difference. he was entitled to protest the ferrel military junta slaughtering people left right and centre. the junta is no better then the MB

have you ever come across the phrase "self preservation" and common sense?

darkpagandeath

end of the road wrote: »

who are there and would be working anyway

Would they not be needed to help other Irish citizens in a spot of bother as well ? Or does someone take precedence and be allowed to take the full resources of the embassy ? What further aid can they offer ? They cannot intervene legally. They know there is legal representation. What more can be done ? It's in the hands of the Egyptians now.

K.Flyer

end of the road wrote: »

he wasn't "caught" doing anything. his trial will be unfair, any "evidence" presented will be made up and unfair. this won't make a difference to others and won't be a lesson

You keep trotting out these same lines, yet you have absolutely no proof whatsoever that he "wasn't caught doing anything" when there is clear and recorded evidence that he was certainly "up to something".
What proof do you have that he will get an unfair trial?
What proof do you have that his evidence will be made up?
Show examples...

K.Flyer

Stheno wrote: »

Why has no one in the Irish media challenged them on the above?

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Read the Irish Independent yesterday and an article was bleating about Islamaphobia in Ireland which is totally unfair, [...]

Not sure if this Indo article from Aug 2013 was ever shown here before, but the author, Ian O'Doherty, seems to see things the same way as some do here. Maybe a few people pointing him towards this thread may being his thoughts on the matter back to the fore.

Irish Independent 23/08/2013

Irish Passport Cannot Be Used As A Get Out Of Jail Card

They have accidentally, as you do, found themselves in the middle of a pro-Muslim Brotherhood march while they were in Egypt on holidays when they were on a march that became a riot. Again, as you do.

It's easily done, of course.

In fact, I'm pretty bloody sick of going on my holliers every summer and then ending up cowering in a mosque after being part of a protest that turns violent. Every bloody time ...

When you remove the bluff, the bluster and the political sloganeering from both sides, one incontrovertible fact remains – our Government is now being dragged into a foreign domestic drama that is none of our business and we should have absolutely no part in.

Because they chose to get themselves into this mess and no amount of screaming about being Irish citizens is going to change that fact.

This isn't an Irish problem.

And the Halawas and their supporters shouldn't be allowed to make it one.

Irish Independent

Smiles35

Great. So Irish people are stupid and the Halawas are going to get us in to trouble.

end of the road

K.Flyer wrote: »

You keep trotting out these same lines, yet you have absolutely no proof whatsoever that he "wasn't caught doing anything" when there is clear and recorded evidence that he was certainly "up to something".
What proof do you have that he will get an unfair trial?
What proof do you have that his evidence will be made up?
Show examples...

countries ran by corrupt military juntas and dictators don't do "fair trials"

K.Flyer

end of the road wrote: »

countries ran by corrupt military juntas and dictators don't do "fair trials"

That doesn't answer the question.

smurfjed

countries ran by corrupt military juntas and dictators don't do "fair trials"

So you consider that the Egyptian courts unfair for releasing defendants ?

The Burgerbar

end of the road wrote: »

countries ran by corrupt military juntas and dictators don't do "fair trials"

Can you back up this claim?

Duzzer

end of the road wrote: »

countries ran by Islamists and Jihadists don't do "fair trials"

Fixed that for you

AlekSmart

K.Flyer wrote: »

That doesn't answer the question.

Yet it is an extremely valid question...How come,if this Egyptian State is so evil and oppressive,that it both grants bail,and frees so many of those accused of campaigning against it ?

Much is made,on Boards and elsewhere,about this unpopular Government...however this lack of popularity is far from any level needed to overturn the regime.

The activities of the Moslim Brotherhood had reached a point which was causing many ordinary working Egyptians to pause and consider their previous support for the MB.

The MB had,unsurprisingly,turned out to be every bit as crooked as many other Rulers of the country.

However,what made the Muslim Brotherhood stand apart from the others was their somewhat strenuous declarations regarding Sharia,and assorted other madcap islamic practices which held little attraction for the modern Egyptian Joe in the street.

The somewhat sad truth is Ibraham Halawa,and his sisters,would very likely have recieved a good thrashing from an enraged Cairene populace for their interference and beligerence in internal Egyptian stuff.

The Egyptian authorities have,up to now,responded positively to appeals regarding their handling of the situation.

Releasing accused foreigners,granting bail applications and adjusting trial conditions do not represent a level of oppression or cruelty that makes me wish to protest outside the Egyptian Embassy or sign up for campaigns waged by the likes of Renta TD's Ruth Coppinger,Paul Murphy.

Unless the Halawa's can recruit some more experienced "activists" on the scale of Derek Byrne to further publicise their brother's case,I can see very little that will change in the current level of mainstream Irish "Meh" about this situation.

K.Flyer

end of the road wrote: »

i don't care whether we would accept it here, makes no difference. he was entitled to protest the ferrel military junta slaughtering people left right and centre. the junta is no better then the MB

By that, do you mean that the M.B. and The Military Junta are as bad as each other??

ohnonotgmail

end of the road wrote: »

countries ran by corrupt military juntas and dictators don't do "fair trials"

as opposed to the corrupt islamic junta and dictator that was there before?

Hachiko

OlaChica wrote: »

The full article is here http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irish-teen-locked-up-in-egypt-jail-fears-execution-30158991.html

How is that not all over the news? And why is our government doing so little to help? I know we are a tiny country but surely there is SOMETHING that we could do to persaude Egypt to release this poor young man. Even a boycott on tourism or something similar.

Absolutely disgraceful and my heart goes out to this poor young lad.

who goes to friggin egypt in the first place? not for taco fries at super macs and listening to the drone of dump valves at a near by aldi....

denhaagenite

Hachiko wrote: »

who goes to friggin egypt in the first place? not for taco fries at super macs and listening to the drone of dump valves at a near by aldi....

A lot of people, it's a grand destination for a holiday, not too far either. I just don't think the Halawas were there to have a look at the Pyramids or go diving in the Red Sea.

AlekSmart

denhaagenite wrote: »

A lot of people, it's a grand destination for a holiday, not too far either. I just don't think the Halawas were there to have a look at the Pyramids or go diving in the Red Sea.

Correct.

The Halawa's took a decision to engage in protest against the existing Government.

By their own accounts,that decision was not a snap one,it came about after several weeks of thought.


Ibrahim Halwa is on record making several serious threatening statements of intent,in the style of "Fighting to the last bullet" etc etc.

It would appear that Mr Halawa wishes to be regarded as an activist and a committed MB supporter,as do his siblings,yet when the opportunity now arises for him to state and fight his claim in open court they wish simply to be allowed out of prison to continue their attacks on the regime elsewhere.

This approach would appear somewhat illogical,and certainly not in the interests of Egyptian Governance,which remains the responsibility of the current Egyptian Government...or am I missing something here ?

AlekSmart

AlekSmart wrote: »

I
This approach would appear somewhat illogical,and certainly not in the interests of Egyptian Governance..

Not in the interests of Irish Governance either to be hosting this.

KingBrian2

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

as opposed to the corrupt islamic junta and dictator that was there before?

A lot of grandiose statements about the old corrupt gvt. It was a secular state and not everyone was disadvantaged.

ohnonotgmail

KingBrian2 wrote: »

A lot of grandiose statements about the old corrupt gvt. It was a secular state and not everyone was disadvantaged.

not everyone, no. just those opposed to the MB. and christians. and should i go on?

AlekSmart

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

not everyone, no. just those opposed to the MB. and christians. and should i go on?

Please do,perhaps then include a selection of those Egyptians for whom a Moslim Brotherhood,Sharia inspired everyday rule would impose far more draconian living than anything the Al-Sissi regime imposes...?